http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqlLZDwMrV4 www.pokebattle.com So these guys are planning on releasing a new competitive Pokemon simulator with some rules that create a distinctively different metagame than Smogon's
>no tiers, instead Pokemon are given a point value >teams are capped at a certain number of points, so to use top tier mons you have to add lesser ones to balance the team >at the moment all "cover legendaries" are more points than a whole team >Every 3 months is one "season" which ends with a tournament among the best laddered >at the beginning of a new season point values are changed to reflect new trends Also tied to this Sim will be forums about this metagame as well as features such as a user made strategy dex.
So /vp/, interested in a new metagame?
Anonymous
I fucking love this concept. Promotes diversity without outright banning anything
Anonymous
Quoted By:
If the staff is made of nice people instead of assholes like Smogon's then I'm all for this new metagame.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
No, I'm only interested in official formats.
Anonymous
That is an interesting system. I like points value systems for stuff like this.
Anonymous
I'm excited, I hope it does well.
Anonymous
It looks retarded, and it'll die within a year because everything else, official formats and non-official formats, are better
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Eco/Dunsparce is that you? For the last time your idea of the metagame sucks and you're a terrible battler. Your server didn't work in 2010 it won't work today.
Anonymous
Interesting? I'll be looking forward towards the future.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693320 Why don't you get over your hateboner for smogon-haters? :^)
Anonymous
I'm a smogonfag, but this is an interesting concept. I hope smogon absorbs them.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693320 But i dont hate smogon, stop being a faggot yourself.
Anonymous
>>teams are capped at a certain number of points, so to use top tier mons you have to add lesser ones to balance the team >teams of just Arceus, Darkrai, or Mega Mewtwo Y are now the trend and have centralized the metagame
Anonymous
Quoted By:
First of all, they can't really be stupid enough to write a Pokémon simulator from scratch when they could just fork showdown/online, can they?
Anonymous
Good for them. I hope they succeed in providing players with another fan-run metagame.
Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
I'm a turbosmogonfag and I like it.
Anonymous
>>16693140 I like the concept... I'll definitely see what they tink of my teams.
Anonymous
>>16693397 >at the moment all "cover legendaries" are more points than a whole team Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693437 Try again, friend.
Anonymous
>>16693397 But the thing is it wont be because things like Arceus and the like wont be allowed. There point values will be set high enough that they cant be used at all.
Anonymous
Anonymous
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>>16693437 hurr durr, no more than one person can disagree with me
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Cool site, doesn't even do anything right now.
Armin 0662 3878 2398
What pokemon babbies dont understand is that the smogon meta is the healthiest one you can achieve. They've been doing it for almost a decade. This new trash concept will die in weeks.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693140 Sounds like a great idea. I love the concept of having to choose a variety of differently powered pokemon for a team, as opposed to six Uber/OU ones.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693480 >What pokemon babbies dont understand is that the smogon meta is the healthiest one you can achieve. I've never met a person that can actually play Pokémon that has had that opinion.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
It sounds good on paper but I'm really not sure it'll work
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693451 >no tiers, instead Pokemon are given a point value >b-b-b-but Arceus and others will be banned and can be used in another format g-g-g-guize Stop being fucking hypocritical
Anonymous
>>16693449 When did Arceus become a cover legendary?
Anonymous
>>16693437 Just gonna do what the first guy did and show what an idiot you are.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693509 he wasn't edgy enough to write "superlegendary", get over it
Armin 0662 3878 2398
This new meta sounds stupid as shit.>cover legendary
Anonymous
>>16693528 Holy shit that edge.
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby)
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby) Sun 15 Dec 2013 20:46:16 No. 16693554 Report Quoted By:
>>16693509 since always, you don't have your Plate Version yet?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Now that megas exist, a point system would probably be the best for a balanced meta. It's too different from the video game though, so I doubt it'll catch on at all.
Anonymous
>>16693545 >edge people are really throwing this word at anthing these days...
as for the simulator idea, mite b cool. i'll definitely try it once they get it up.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693541 This
And if not cover legendary, then a lesser but still strong legendary
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby)
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby) Sun 15 Dec 2013 20:47:38 No. 16693573 Report >>16693541 It's almost like you didn't listen when they said that cover legendaries by them selves will be worth more than a whole team of pokemon, so will not be able to be used
Anonymous
>Not released >"Be one of the first to get a beta invite" >Submit e-mail >"Internal Server Error"
Anonymous
Wait wait.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693588 exactly
fuck this shit, if it's not ready don't hype people fucktards
Anonymous
what exactly is the point of this besides different for the sake of being different?
Anonymous
>>16693573 But what if I want to use them?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693593 People just like to hate smogon enough that anything that isn't them is welcomed.
Honestly it's an interesting idea at least, though I can't say if it would be fun or successful or not. I'm not quite sure what happens when people start to use the same staple good teams that work within their points system. I mean you could make the point values of the 'weaker' mons on those staple teams that get overused higher, but that doesn't quite seem right when they're not necessarily very good or anything, just the best in their role that fit with the point system.
Armin 0662 3878 2398
Blue Kirby is actually one of the highest ranking members of the Smogon Council. I'm suprised one of our own would be spearheading this
Anonymous
>>16693569 >red and black background >not edge Anonymous
I really hope the people who are praising this are not the same people who bitch about Smogon's council, because this is why worse. The council at least only quickbans a couple of Pokemon at the start of a metagame and will suspect test it later. This group is going to be making changes every three months, more than likely making top tier Pokemon cost so many points that they're not worth it.
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby)
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby) Sun 15 Dec 2013 21:07:45 No. 16693938 Report >>16693650 It is very similar to the current system, but at the same time it allows people to be very creative with their teams without being forced into using just the top mons solely
This is more for the people that play solely OU tier where all you have to choose from (as the guy said in the video) is the top 20 strongest mons that aren't banned
This will force people to try new and fresh strategies combining some higher value mons with lower ones and really break up the monotony that is the current OU tier
>>16693735 try a different site? haha, i think this is more aimed towards people that do not want to use ubers and have solid competition against some of the best battlers in the community
Anonymous
Quoted By:
it's been tried before, including on Smogon's forums
Anonymous
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That sounds ridiculously arbitrary.
Anonymous
>>16693938 I don't think you understand.
It doesn't solve that problem at all.
At the very start it might seem that way, everybody trying out new shit and seeing what works well.
The problem is that after a while people figure out what the best combination is. People WILL min/max the point system and figure out what the best teams are.
All this does is create a metagame with LESS freedom because you're restricted in what you can use with the point system. You can already create a lot of successful teams in OU, but you're gonna fight a lot of people using the same shit. You maybe be able to create a lot of teams with this new point system, but you'll still fight the same min/maxers that you would in the current metagame.
Anonymous
>>16693938 >haha, i think this is more aimed towards people that do not want to use ubers and have solid competition against some of the best battlers in the community But you can have a separate tier for them
Some people like fighting ubers vs. ubers, what isn't there to get
It's like using boss characters in a fighting game, it's fun
Anonymous
This has been done before as a Smogon Other Meta.
Anonymous
>>16693918 Unless I wasn't listening, I don't think they said anything about a council to decide all of these, as far as we know it could be a poll. The only thing I think they said depended on ladder rank is an invitation to their end of season tournament.
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby)
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby) Sun 15 Dec 2013 21:21:13 No. 16694233 Report >>16694038 I feel like you underestimate what people can do with so many options, and ofc there will always be min-maxing, it happens in any and every game where it can be done
But just accepting that and not trying to shake things up will allow things to remain stale and that is not good for the longevity of the game or the community
>>16694067 Yes, that is why i gave a precursor
>try a different site This is a system that serious battlers are creating for other serious battlers that would allow people to play against the best and the worst giving a meaningful "spot at the top" and some real insentive to battle your smartest and hardest
Having fun is fine and goofing with ubers is cool, but some people aren't into that, and this is where those people can thrive and have their own fun! haha
Anonymous
Just when I thought Smogoncunts had ruined the game, these imbeciles appear with even worse "rules", if you can even call them that. For fuck's sake vp
Anonymous
>>16694233 Creating a shittier metagame just for the sake of "shaking things up" isn't good either.
Anonymous
>>16694243 >Random people on an online simulator ruining your game experience Why are you such a retard
Anonymous
>>16694233 >This is a system that serious battlers are creating for other serious battlers that would allow people to play against the best and the worst giving a meaningful "spot at the top" and some real insentive to battle your smartest and hardest I seriously hope you're trolling right now
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby)
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby) Sun 15 Dec 2013 21:27:17 No. 16694337 Report >>16694255 >Creating a shittier metagame Judging things before they even exist isn't a good habit, haha
>>16694268 It's not like i wasn't expecting people to not like what i'm saying, so think whatever you wil, haha
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby)
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby) Sun 15 Dec 2013 21:28:19 No. 16694354 Report >>16694255 >Creating a shittier metagame Judging things before they even exist isn't a good habit, haha
>>16694268 It's not like i wasn't expecting people to like what i'm saying, so think whatever you wil, haha
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16694337 Maybe you should read the posts where it was explained that this was done before and failed.
Anonymous
>>16694262 By that logic theres no problem with Smogon or Showdown then.
Everyone should pack up and go home.
Anonymous
>>16694354 Who the fuck are you and why should we care about what you say?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693397 >implying I can't drop any one of those if I have five more Pokemon than you Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby)
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby) Sun 15 Dec 2013 21:32:14 No. 16694429 Report >>16694379 no one in particular and you shouldn't, you should come to your own conclusion based on what you're presented, haha, but if i can sway your opinion that'd be pretty cool
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693805 This is most likely just an experiment.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>16694375 Well there isn't.
Anonymous
>>16694429 >>16694354 >haha >haha >haha Holy shit shut the fuck up you fucking retard
Anonymous
>>16694216 Ah, I assumed it would be a council because that'd be the most efficient way to make changes.
>>16694233 But the metagame we have now isn't stale. Gen 5, for all the jokes about weather wars, at least went through quite a few changes, and just because something uses weather doesn't mean it needs to play the same. And Gens 3 and 4 went through a ton of changes. You guys bitch about "Smogon: The Team" but for fuck's sake the current metagame's just barely two months old. Give it some time.
If that's still too stale for you, then you're honestly just playing the wrong game to begin with. How often does Gamefreak add on to Pokemon games? Maybe like every two years or so. Of course there isn't going to be wild changes every month. If you want that then go play the TCG.
>>16694201 This guy brings up a pretty good point. No matter what method these guys decide upon for changing points, it's going to be a humongous hassle. Smogon to begin with already has trouble banning Pokemon (outside of council bans which are very rarely done), imagine trying to decide on points for every single Pokemon, and then having to change those points every three months. There's a reason why every attempt at this metagame has failed before.
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby)
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby) Sun 15 Dec 2013 21:37:01 No. 16694530 Report >>16694450 hahaha, man, why are you so upset with a little laughter? cheer up!
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16694530 And into the filter you go
Anonymous
i feel that this idea will mostly appeal to karenfags but in essence i really like what they're trying to do. everyone is fucking sick to death of talonflame and m-kanga and m-luke and all the other stupid shit running around, and like the guys said it isn't a question of "git gud" but if you want to stop the common as shit offensive powerhouses then you have to use the common as shit counters to those offensive powerhouses yourself
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16694450 Hahaha bro, hahaha
U mad bro?
Hah!
Anonymous
>getting trolled by a namefag
Anonymous
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>>16693140 I have a bad feeling about this. They can't even set up their e-mail subscriptions without internal server errors messing it up.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16694549 This just means that teams are gonna have a Sunkern and 5 ubers.
Anonymous
This is one of those meta ideas that has come up countless times in theory threads, and it all just falls apart at one factor:
Anonymous
>>16694516 now that smogon/ps is very well-established in terms of their data collection, i feel like the points could be tied somehow to OU usage. that way this metagame evolves parallel with the smogon one
Anonymous
>>16694448 >>16694438 I'm guess it's your first day on /vp/ and you've never seen the millions of Smogon-hate threads.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16694640 That's a problem with /vp/, not smogon.
Anonymous
>>16694574 >it's been tried before several times I've never heard of anything like that. Who tried it? When?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16694640 But that's /vp/.
Anonymous
>>16694709 Read the thread, retard
Anonymous
>>16694746 Read it. No info.
And the retard here is you.
Anonymous
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby)
Blade 1461-6353-0260 (Wooper, Dugtrio, Diggersby) Sun 15 Dec 2013 21:50:36 No. 16694798 Report Quoted By:
>>16694516 That's totally fair, there have been a lot of changes and i personally don't mind, but i like to watch a ton of people that post battles and as there are some people that play so much that even the changes it goes through are not enough to spice it up and just a disclaimer, I don't mind smogon in the least
I can't say whether this will be more than something that is fun for a month and dies, or if it will be able to be worked out over time, but i'm just overly optimistic and i enjoy new ideas being explored!
Anonymous
>>16694795 Are you retarded?
Budgetmon is not what OP is trying to do.
So I'm gonna assume the "tried several times" is just something you pulled out your ass to troll OP's idea.
Link the sources regarding these "attempts" or fuck off.
Anonymous
>>16693914 I use the same one because it's easier on my eyes
Rather have "edgy" background then have to take a break from all lights every hour
Anonymous
>>16694831 >links a thing where it describes in detail how it's related >b-b-b-b-b-but that isn't related Fuck off
Anonymous
Quoted By:
To be perfectly honest I can't see this working, but having more competition and another option - regardless of how it turns out - is an inherently good thing I guess.
Anonymous
>>16694871 Yeah looks like you ran out of arguments.
Budgetmon was merely based on BST and it's a static metagame, this one is meant to be dynamic and OP hasn't state whether it will be merely based on BST or not.
So, where are the links about these previous attempts? Don't have any? Get the hell out of here and go troll elsewhere.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16694833 If you need a background easy on the eyes use Tomorrow. Red is just unnecessary and would only be used for the sake of edge.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16694871 Budgetmon doesn't have "seasons" and only takes base stats into account, so shit like Regigigas and Slaking would be even more worthless.
Unless you have proof then it's safe to say OP's idea has never been tried before, so quit saying it's gonna fail when you don't know shit.
Anonymous
>>16694612 I was about to make this very point in a few greentext lines, but you saved me the effort. Thanks bro.
>>16694614 Then we'd just run into the problem of usage being cyclical. Talonflame is #1 right now, so based off that, his price would be pretty high. Talonflame's great but it's mainly a late-game cleaner, there are other possible substitutes, so people stop using him and he starts dropping in usage hard. Next season, he gets his cost lowered because his usage was so low. Everyone starts using Talonflame again. Next season, cost gets lowered, and so on.
>>16694932 Not him, I don't think this was ever actually implemented into a program or anything but the general idea has been brought up several times as a "what-if". They never get off the ground. Just some light googling showed these two.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1764 http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?427831-A-Possible-Alternative-to-Smogon-Tiers Anonymous
Quoted By:
As if you won't end up with the same pokes being top tiered because no one knows how to think for themselves.
Anonymous
>>16695154 i think that's an oversimplification although it would certainly be like that at the beginning. with a large enough userbase there would be some self-moderation at work
Anonymous
If you're forced to use shitmons in your teams to not go over a point limit, isn't that exactly as restricting as you guys say Smogon is? How are you going to fit all your favorites in your team if all of them happen to be good?
Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16695247 There wouldn't be any self-moderation. In a competitive environment, people will want to win. They're not going to go "Gee, Talonflame's a good, cheap Pokemon. Oh well, better not use him, because I wanna be diverse!" No, they're just going to pick Talonflame now that he's cheap for three months.
If userbases really could self-moderate then people wouldn't be complaining about Smogon: The Team to begin with.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Sounds stupid.>What do you MEAN I can't use genesect/rotom-w/mega luc/talonflame on the same team???
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693140 Interesting idea, but the points system is going to be a lot of work to maintain.
Anonymous
>no tiers
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16703421 Enjoy your Groudon/Palkia/Zekrom/Farfetchd/Luvdisc/Unown "metagame".
Anonymous
Quoted By:
THANK YOU SOCIALISM
Anonymous
>>16703421 But tiers are what allow Pokemon to actually be able to compete. This system is going to have your favorites pitted against legendaries.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16703421 Why don't you just play the Smogon Uber Tier where you can use everything but Moody?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16703518 Idk I doubt it since you either get one crazy good pokemon on a team of mediocre-bad pokemon vs a team of all solid-good pokemon
I'd put my money on the later since all you need to do is kill the legendary to win which is doable with less then 6 good pokemon
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Whoa this is nuts. I've been contemplating such a system for like a couple weeks now. I was gonna post it somewhere because I was wondering why if it hadn't been done already.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
this is dumb, i'm not gonna play on it.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Anything to topple the Smogon Nazi regime
Anonymous
Quoted By:
The teams are just going to be two or three pokemon like Shaymin-S, Keldeo, and Blaziken and then three NFE pokemon with healing wish.
Anonymous
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It's funny because Smogon had something like this as a non-main metagame.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
I wonder if the point values for Pokemon will be done algorithmically based on comparative success rates with that Pokemon. That way the system would be in a constant state of self-correction. ?
Anonymous
>I don't like how my shitty bros aren't good at Smogon's meta >I'm going to create my own meta where everyone shall be forced to use shit mons
Anonymous
>>16704038 Sounds good. What's wrong with this?
>describing something somehow automatically derisive Anonymous
>Mega-Khan >Sableye counter >Sableye >NFE with healing wish >NFE with healing wish >NFE with Heal Bell
Anonymous
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>>16693140 >pokemon >ever having a metagame >mfw people actually believe this Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16704199 Smogon already has a metagame where you can do that. Several of them, in fact. They're called NU, UU, and RU.
As several other users have said, this isn't going to lead to people using lesser used mons, it's just going to lead people to use one incredibly good mon and five weaker supporters/checks.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16693140 It's going to eventually be the same few teams that have the best point spread with best mons. It will always be like this until the next "season"
Anonymous
>>16704276 Irrelevant. The shit's not even out yet and somehow people know exactly how it's going to play out? You're just being a pessimistic cunt.
Anonymous
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>>16704431 Why bother discussing this then if you're going to dismiss any criticism as "LOL IT ISN'T EVEN OUT YET!!!" To clarify, no I did not mean that with 100% certainty, but I do think it's very likely how this type of metagame would turn out. There are quite a few Pokemon that are so fucking powerful that they can carry a team by themselves. I'd rather use a team of Mega-Khan + 5 NU mons instead of a "balanced" team of 6 UU mons or whatever, because Mega-Khan is just that fucking good.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
As long as they expand the point system to items, abilities, and moves as well as the pokes, then this good be interesting.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
This is an intriguing idea, at least.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>16703421 They said they were making cover legendaries more points than they're worth, effectively banning them. So they still have tiers.
False advertisement.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
This is an interesting idea and ideas like this have been brought up many times, but they never take off. In this case, this idea has several problems:
