/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #16698492

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Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 00:56:26 No.16698492 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>16698592 >>16698666 >>16698672 >>16698753 >>16699282 >>16699505 >>16701434 >>16702107

What does /vp/ think of this metagame compared to Smogon's?

>no bans
>no tiers
>each pokemon has a point value system
>stronger pokemon have higher points, weaker pokemon have lower points
>there is a maximum amount of points you can have on a team
>you can use kyogre as long as you bring lumineon or something equally as shitty
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqlLZDwMrV4

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 00:58:22 No.16698532 Report

Quoted By: >>16698585 >>16698589 >>16700183

how are 'strong' and weak pokemon determined?

smogon uses usage stats for most tiers which is a pretty neutral metric

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 00:59:26 No.16698555 Report

Quoted By: >>16699091 >>16701521

it sounds interesting. i'll give it a shot. sort of like an expanded tier shift. reminds me of making armies in table top games.

it's possible it will end up being teams of 3 op pokemon and 3 hassles/support pokemon.

i.e.
>megakhan
>talonflame
>rotomwash
+
>shuckle
>shedinja
>wobbuffet

balanced team mother fucker. it will be interesting to see.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:00:34 No.16698573 Report

Quoted By:

so its basically just ubers but you cant bring all ubers to check shit

sounds gay

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:00:59 No.16698585 Report

Quoted By: >>16698619

>>16698532
Probably the same way, except instead of banning the overused pokes, they would "cost" more.

IGN:Eric FC:4398-9591-8678

IGN:Eric FC:4398-9591-8678 Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:01:09 No.16698589 Report

Quoted By: >>16698619

>>16698532
just base the points off smogon tiers
and add point costs to certain abilities and items

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:01:13 No.16698592 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698492
kyogre and moody bib sweeps inc

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:01:53 No.16698600 Report

Quoted By:

I will be glad to test it out when it's ready. Sounds fun if they make it work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:02:00 No.16698605 Report

Quoted By:

It'll get screwed over in the end. I just know it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:02:28 No.16698618 Report

Quoted By:

Wasn't there a similar thing on the showdown forums about this? You have a limit on your total BST or something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:02:29 No.16698619 Report

Quoted By: >>16698742

>>16698585
How are you going to determine power level by usage when your point system is skewing usage?

>>16698589
You can't really use smogons unless you also use their banlists.

Tourney Guy

Tourney Guy Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:03:59 No.16698666 Report

Quoted By: >>16698729

>>16698492
There is already a tier like this in Smogon but it doesn't have its own ladder on Showdown yet. Look up "Budgetmons" in the OM section. This isn't a perfect example but it's close and there are other metas like this in the works and we'll probably see them over the course of Gen 6.

Also, this will probably end up being just as centralised as Tier Shift was with every team carrying Miltank (which really isn't that bad, just outclassed) so they can run Ubers.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:04:12 No.16698672 Report

Quoted By: >>16698814

>>16698492
>you can use kyogre as long as you bring lumineon or something equally as shitty
so I guess teams of 3 ubers and 3 weedles will sweep though all the typical smogon: the experience stuff

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:06:37 No.16698729 Report

Quoted By: >>16698857

>>16698666
this is not at all the same as budgetmons, firstly because it won't go by BST and BST is a miserable indicator as to how well a pokemon can perform competitively. second, the points values will evolve dynamically over time with user input

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:07:22 No.16698742 Report

Quoted By: >>16699317

>>16698619
They most likely have a bunch of angry vrigins on tow to argue about it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:07:58 No.16698753 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698492
as far as the technical side goes, would the rankings be updated daily or something? If so, will that affect those that are currently playing when the rankings are posted?

A little food for thought.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:10:41 No.16698794 Report

Quoted By:

>It's coming
and so am I

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:11:50 No.16698814 Report

Quoted By: >>16698844

>>16698672
He says there will be bans of sorts for really powerful mons.

I would there would be point divisions

60 is standard

100 is heavy weight etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:12:27 No.16698824 Report

Quoted By: >>16699001

It's good in theory, but only if the points are fairly distributed based on how well a Pokemon performs and how much its used.

You know, like Smogon tiers. Cry all you want, but Smogon does a good job at balancing, even if you don't agree with specific bans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:13:25 No.16698844 Report

Quoted By: >>16698927

>>16698814
mewtwo could have so many points you practically couldn't use any other pokemon on your team.

that's not really a ban, because you could still use it, but it's going to only be mewtwo and sunkern vs 6 pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:13:56 No.16698857 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698729
Of course it's not the same but it's similar in that there's a points system and you often pick really shit mons so you can run good ones.

And after making 3 posts outside of the relevant thread I realised I was using the name I use for /cpg/, my bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:14:56 No.16698883 Report

Quoted By: >>16698917

I hope this does really well just to spite the Smogonfags. Don't have anything against Smogon itself as it does a pretty good job of structuring the metagame, but god are it's fans the biggest elitist faggots in the community.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:15:16 No.16698891 Report

Quoted By:

>people think it will be teams of ubers
They said that ubers are valued above the teams maximum points right now
Y'all dumb

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:15:54 No.16698904 Report

Quoted By: >>16698974

God this will just become a game of "Which pokemon have the creators completely undervalued?" and trying to game the system more than just pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:16:28 No.16698917 Report

Quoted By: >>16699835

>>16698883
>Don't have anything against Smogon itself as it does a pretty good job of structuring the metagame
you realize that the fans you hate are the ones contributing to the site. smogon isn't an entity. it's a bunch of people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:17:06 No.16698927 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698844
Which honestly, assuming you have a balanced team isn't that bad at all.

I also don't personally thing 3 amazing pokes with almost no support will be as good as a well rounded team of 6, even if they lose out individually on paper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:19:16 No.16698974 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698904
Apparently they'll be updating point values frequently in an attempt to get things to fall where they belong. We'll need to wait until we see what they have in mind for how they assign value.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:20:27 No.16699001 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698824
i think the irony is that smogon almost does too good of a job of balancing things, which is exactly why everyone ends up using the same shit over and over again. that's what this project is trying to change

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:23:56 No.16699063 Report

Quoted By: >>16699097

So making a good team is just finding the "underated" mons that are good but have a low point cost. This type of meta is all about abusing the point rating system. Not very interesting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:25:37 No.16699091 Report

Quoted By: >>16699252

>>16698555
>>wobbuffet
his fucker is OP as fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:25:54 No.16699097 Report

Quoted By: >>16699161

>>16699063
it's called being economic and getting value out of combinations of pokemon who otherwise aren't that great.

it's actually very interesting. it also makes using shitty pokemon that you like possible. the variety within teams is going to be pretty ridiculous. there might not even really be much of a solid metagame beyond complimentary pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:26:35 No.16699116 Report

Quoted By: >>16699172

Smogon already runs too deep for anyone to want to switch. Doubt this will be anything more than a niche format, plus it sounds just as dumb and overcentralized as current pokebank OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:29:10 No.16699161 Report

Quoted By: >>16699185

>>16699097
Because you can't use your shitty pokemon in PS, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:29:45 No.16699172 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699116
It's interesting and new though. So long as they can convince people that it will be fresher and more interesting than the repetitive set-up Smogon has going, then people will probably try it simply out of curiosity. I don't see why anyone would reject having a brand new metagame they can experiment with other than having an undying loyalty or dependency on Smogon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:30:29 No.16699185 Report

Quoted By: >>16699333 >>16699352

>>16699161
you can, and you can also enjoy getting destroyed by competent players using the standard ou stuff

nice bait

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:32:03 No.16699212 Report

Quoted By: >>16699254

It kind of sounds like budokai tenkaichi 3, if anybodys played that. Obviously pokemon and dragonball z are two totally different things, but one way you can have lower valued characters in bt3 is there is an ability to transform. What if you were able to pick a weak pokemon, such as charmander, and by spending a turn you have the ability to evolve it. This would open up new strategies, such as picking weak pokemon that have strong evolved forms, and forming your team around allowing those NFE pokemon to evolve.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:34:03 No.16699252 Report

Quoted By: >>16701545

>>16699091

>wobb
>OP

so how's gen 4 treating you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:34:16 No.16699254 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699212
Way too complicated. BT has lots of other ways to give yourself time to transform. Pokemon isn't built with that in mind. It would just be a mess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:35:49 No.16699282 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698492
>No tiers
>Points for good/lame mons
IT IS TIER BASED
hurrr duuurrr

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:36:56 No.16699309 Report

Quoted By: >>16699344

Its like we usually do tournaments on my city, you can select 1 pokemon per tier, having 6 tiers to select from (except Ubers).
Exactly. The. Same.
Nothing innovative is coming

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:37:16 No.16699317 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698742
>IT'S SO MUCH BETTER THAN SMOGON, RIGHT GUISE

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:38:09 No.16699333 Report

Quoted By: >>16699412

>>16699185
>Being this fucking retarded.
You're already saying your favourites are shit, how would this metagame change anything? They aren't going to stop being shit because they cost less points.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:38:46 No.16699344 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699309
>Exactly. The. Same.
Its not really exactly the same if its different.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:39:14 No.16699352 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699185

That's why you play in UU or RU or NU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:41:55 No.16699412 Report

Quoted By: >>16699468 >>16699575

>>16699333
Not him and I don't know much about competitive, but with this layout I do know your team can't be OU: The Game. You can't have all the typical Smogon shit on your team at the same time, so you have to resort to weaker Pokemon instead. Even if it's just by a small amount, it shakes things up a little.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:44:44 No.16699468 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699412

You're just going to be seeing OU: The Team: Pokebattle Edition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:46:38 No.16699505 Report

Quoted By: >>16699575 >>16699800

>>16698492
This could be interesting but it would be so hard to assign balanced point values. I doubt they can handle it.

How many points is rattata worth when it can run fear? What about any sturdy pokemon with hazards? Gimmick strats like fear, explosion, and baton pass are going to have a field day with this unless they can somehow simultaneously balance crazy strong Ubers, standard play, and gimmicks with the same set of point values.

Bans are used for balance because they are easy. Is something OP? Ban it. Assigning a numerical value to quantify brokenness is way more difficult. I hope they're up to the challenge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:47:41 No.16699531 Report

Quoted By:

>point values for pokemon for team composition

I like it. Seems like it'd be difficult, since doing it accurately would require taking all possible comps and uses into account. But I enjoy wargames that use a similar system.

Is it 6v6, or could you roll 2 legendaries/pokemon that equal up to the point total vs. a team of 6?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:49:40 No.16699575 Report

Quoted By: >>16699692 >>16699734 >>16699800

>>16699412
See
>>16699505
I guess I will be running Tyranitar, other support pokemon and four lvl 1 Arons with Endeavor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:54:27 No.16699692 Report

Quoted By: >>16699814

>>16699575
Hmm, like I said I'm not an expert on competitive... but could they introduce a clause that states that if a particular Pokemon knows a certain move/setup/holds a particular item then it's cost is increased accordingly.

As you said it's no easy task to balance, that I'll admit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:57:03 No.16699734 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699575
Yeah they really need to think hard about this when assigning points. The pool of pokemon that can learn endeavor and a priority attack is quite large.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:58:47 No.16699771 Report

Quoted By:

Interesting, but are these banned?

>Evasion (no damage moves, items, abilities, etc.)
>1HKO moves
>items

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:58:49 No.16699773 Report

Quoted By: >>16699839

>In b4 is shitty single rules
Why no one has stepped into the more complex with actual strategy double field?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:59:38 No.16699793 Report

Quoted By: >>16699844 >>16699971 >>16700238 >>16700924

>no bans
Thank. Fucking. God.

When will you tourneyfags realize that evasion is a perfectly valid strategy? Skill and luck is important. Being able to overcome bad luck by being exceedingly skilled and bluffing takes more skill than just raw skill and no luck. Plus if it's truly competitive, you should be able to use every tool in the game as it was intended, none of that "b-but it's not fair or fun!! ;_;" bullshit. I don't care how fun a competition is. I play to win

Try and prove me wrong without getting mad.
Protip: You Fucking can't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 01:59:45 No.16699800 Report

Quoted By: >>16699919

>>16699505
>>16699575
While that is something to think about, no one will fall for FEAR more than once in the same battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:00:20 No.16699814 Report

Quoted By: >>16700378

>>16699692
That would be even more hell to balance.

Smogon dislikes those sorts of bans because it causes a weird metagame where you can make guesses about a Pokemon's ability or movepool (and hell, why not apply point/tier values to ev spreads, natures, and ivs as well?)

Say, with this pointbuy system, if Kyogre was affordable in a standard team if you ran Water Pulse/Round/Scary Face/Ancient Power, Adamant, and 0 IVs?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:01:30 No.16699835 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698917
He means he's okay with the tier system, he just doesn't like the people running it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:01:37 No.16699839 Report

Quoted By: >>16699870

>>16699773
this.
Somebody should start a doubles meta that is not VGC, which sucks balls

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:01:53 No.16699844 Report

Quoted By: >>16699888

>>16699793
Evasion just isn't fun, that's really it.

Just look at the Minimize Drifblim sets showing up in Wifi battles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:02:53 No.16699870 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699839
Smogon doubles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:03:42 No.16699888 Report

Quoted By: >>16699936 >>16699938

>>16699844
Funny enough, phantom force shits all over it. Actually there are quite a few moves that specifically punish evasion boosts aren't there?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:05:13 No.16699919 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699800
That's probably true. Still if my 5 point rattata can stop your setup sweeper then it is pretty powerful.

And fear certainly isn't the only gimmick that would exploit this type of ranking system. Choice band explosion on random shitty mons wouldn't be too bad and aren't nearly as easy to counter as fear.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:05:54 No.16699936 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699888
Yeah, with shit BP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:05:57 No.16699938 Report

Quoted By: >>16699960

>>16699888
As of gen 6, there are certain moves that specifically double in power and never miss if minimize is used.

While better than the general never miss moves, it doesn't fix evasion as a whole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:06:58 No.16699960 Report

Quoted By: >>16699981 >>16699988 >>16700001

>>16699938
Wait, what?

What moves are these?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:07:13 No.16699971 Report

Quoted By: >>16700124

>>16699793
The entire idea behind smogon's tiers and bans is to make their meta as fair as possible.
Even officially sanctioned events realize that some things need to be banned to keep things fair.
If all you want to do is win, grab some cheap tricks and go into rated battles and wreck scrubs. You don't have to play by smogon rules if you don't want to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:07:41 No.16699981 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699960
Phantom Force doubles its power and doesn't miss if Minimize is used.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:08:10 No.16699988 Report

Quoted By: >>16700022

>>16699960
Stomp, Steamroller, Body Slam, Dragon Rush, Flying Press, and Phantom Force

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:08:38 No.16700001 Report

Quoted By: >>16700046

>>16699960
Stomp
Steamroller
Flying Press
Dragon Rush
Body Slam
Phantom Force

As of gen 6

However oddly enough it's only applicable for minimize, not evasion as a whole, it really should be at least for anything with +2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:09:46 No.16700022 Report

Quoted By: >>16700086

>>16699988
Seriously?

Fucking glad I bred that phantom force Banette now.

Is it only after a minimize or is it just against targets with evasion boosts?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:10:49 No.16700046 Report

Quoted By:

>>16700001
Oop nevermind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:12:37 No.16700086 Report

Quoted By:

>>16700022
only after a minimize

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:12:59 No.16700095 Report

Quoted By:

You could almost totally fix evasion if you just had no miss moves gain power in relation to the number of evasion boosts the target had.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:14:14 No.16700124 Report

Quoted By: >>16700164 >>16700168 >>16700201 >>16700238

>>16699971
>fair meta
No. You are the problem.

The meta is fine without intervention. The strongest build gets theorycrafted, sure. Two people using it comes down to luck (or who needs better - patience is a skill, too). People look at the weaknesses of that setup and prepare a counter. Suddenly there are two options with different strengths and weaknesses. People analyze things more, and have counters to their counters. Suddenly there are four viable options.

I don't care how "fair" it is. Like I said, stop using arbitrary rules to force specific builds and agendas, it's literally censorship: its not about winning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:16:32 No.16700164 Report

Quoted By: >>16700654

>>16700124
>Competitive playing is not about winning
okay, I missed something here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:16:46 No.16700168 Report

Quoted By: >>16700285 >>16700654

>>16700124
>The meta is fine without intervention
Moody Bidoof, Lock-On/Sheer Cold Sashed Smeargle, and Evasion-boosted everything is a-ok, and promotes the use of varied Pokemon and strategies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:17:27 No.16700183 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698532 That is only the selfish perception of people

but could work actually if that's real

and btw, why is the name is so stupid? srsly, couldn't those guys created something more original?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:18:07 No.16700201 Report

Quoted By: >>16700654

>>16700124
If you want to win, just go grab some powerful pokes and beat people on wifi, since its basically what you want. Nothing is forcing you to play by smogon's rules.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:19:53 No.16700238 Report

Quoted By: >>16700654

>>16700124
>>16699793
tip lil

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:22:16 No.16700285 Report

Quoted By: >>16700654 >>16701822

>>16700168
>Lock On/Sheer Cold Sashed Smeargle
What is switching?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:22:35 No.16700296 Report

Quoted By:

So 4 NU's that do nothing but set up two ubers the game?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:27:47 No.16700378 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699814
I don't think nature, ivs or ev spreads should be taxed, it's not that hard to get the right nature or good ivs, and in competitive you're expected to have those anyway.

Just like Smogon it would take a great deal of discussion and experimentation before an ideal conclusion would be reached, and that in itself would probably carry the same amount of drama that Smogon talks would. I would assume, however, that moves or sets would be taxed within reason.

We still don't know how many points players are allocated, nor how much specific Pokemon are going to cost, so it's hard to construct anything right now. without that vital information.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:42:18 No.16700654 Report

Quoted By: >>16700775 >>16700905 >>16701057 >>16701430

>>16700164
No, competitive battling is ALWAYS about winning.
I said I personally don't care about winning or losing, but it's lack of options that a forced meta provides. THAT ticks me off.

>>16700168
See >>16700285
Don't get mad because you were outplayed.

>>16700201
Like I said above, I don't give two fucks about winning. Censorship is wrong. If I play competitive I play to win, but doing random wifi battles? That's not good practice.

>>16700238
>I can't think of a solid argument.
>Welp, better shitpost!! :D

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:47:56 No.16700775 Report

Quoted By: >>16700799

>>16700654
>Censorship is wrong.

Nobody's being censored you retard. You don't have to play by Smogon's rules if you don't want to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:48:49 No.16700799 Report

Quoted By: >>16700875 >>16700935

>>16700775
Then why aren't I allowed to use evasion in their tournaments?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:51:52 No.16700875 Report

Quoted By: >>16700957

>>16700799

Because nobody wants to play a stallfest where both players "compete" to see who hits first. Again, you don't have to play by Smogon's rules if you don't want to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:53:19 No.16700905 Report

Quoted By:

>>16700654
tip lil

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:54:20 No.16700924 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699793
>Being able to overcome bad luck by being exceedingly skilled
bait right here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:54:42 No.16700935 Report

Quoted By:

>>16700799
>in their tournaments
Key fucking word. Their tournament, their rules.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO mainimage.jpg, 20KiB, 407x309

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:55:42 No.16700957 Report

Quoted By: >>16700972 >>16700996 >>16701088 >>16701430

>>16700875
>You don't have to play by Smogon's rules if you don't want to.
>Decide to participate
>Don't like their ruleset, use whatever I please
>Get disqualified
HURR

>Nobody wants to play a stallfest where both players "compete" to see who hits first
Given that powerful moves with 5 or 10 PP are only likely to hit once or twice once evasion has been set up, a stallwall with Pressure would be amazing. You would have to adapt or die.

You'll bitch that this isn't skillful at all, but the truth is very much the opposite. Because you suddenly have to play differently to win, you don't like it, because it's not "fun". In reality, tournaments aren't designed to be fun, they're supposed to determine the best.

I think /vp/ really needs a lesson on abstract and paradoxical logic. Picture very fucking related.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:56:44 No.16700972 Report

Quoted By: >>16701057

>>16700957
>You don't have to play by Smogon's rules if you don't want to.
>Decide to participate
>Don't like their ruleset, use whatever I please
>Get disqualified
>HURR
So play tournaments elsewhere you fucking retard holy shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 02:57:45 No.16700996 Report

Quoted By: >>16701057

>>16700957
>Pretending to be this retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:00:40 No.16701057 Report

Quoted By: >>16701430

>>16700972
Smogon is the only recognized one that's worth attending.
What I'm saying is their ruleset in its current form is toxic, cancerous to competitive play.

>>16700996
See my last point here: >>16700654
Yup, only pretending! God forbid someone have a controversial opinion. That suddenly makes them incredibly retarded and you're safe from having to provide burden of proof.

Kip (0919 9928 0488) !!4zAvylJuIiN

Kip (0919 9928 0488) !!4zAvylJuIiN Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:01:20 No.16701088 Report

Quoted By: >>16701136

>>16700957
>>/showderp/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:03:27 No.16701136 Report

Quoted By: >>16701166 >>16701178 >>16701189

>>16701088
Showderp is borderline illegal you know? It allows for emulation of the core gameplay without having purchased the games. Piracy would be less harmful to the franchise that using that.

I would NEVER use a virtual program like that because it's too easy to juke and force results you want, whereas on the 3DS (which hasn't been hacked yet) is much more secure for official tournament play

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:04:56 No.16701166 Report

Quoted By: >>16701198

>>16701136
>Still pretending to be this retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:05:25 No.16701178 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701136
Stop

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:06:02 No.16701189 Report

Quoted By: >>16701270

>>16701136
>Implying anyone cares

Anon please, no one has any concern about ripping Gamefreak off with emulators or any other sort of third party software, but they rush to Gamefreak's defence when someone questions Pokebank costing $5. That's how our commuiy works.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO i-5d00a8cff5a51e29765c72572386b4 (...).jpg, 65KiB, 500x380

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:06:34 No.16701198 Report

Quoted By: >>16701510

>>16701166
I'm at contradiction, you're at name-calling, and this post bumps me back up to counterargument. So far I'm winning this debate, and you've brought nothing to the table.

Again, despite how outlandish my claims may appear to be, you are in fact the fool, since you lack the burden of proof, and are resorting to infantile debatory tactics.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO wow holy shit get wrekt.png, 28KiB, 640x458

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:10:04 No.16701270 Report

Quoted By: >>16701303 >>16701369 >>16701426 >>16701467 >>16701681 >>16703447

>>16701189
Pokebank would be a free service if people didn't pirate their games.

Here is an image from a popular emulator site (which I will not link to because it breaks the global rules). Notice that there are 47,753,910 downloads between just TWO games. At $40 per unit, that's easily $1,910,156,400 -- one point BILLION dollars -- of gross income denied due to piracy.

Yes, the service would cost pennies a year for them to run, but they have to recoup their losses somehow

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:11:39 No.16701303 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701270
tip lil

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:14:21 No.16701369 Report

Quoted By: >>16701387

>>16701270
coolrom.com?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:15:05 No.16701387 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701369
Yes. But still.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:16:58 No.16701426 Report

Quoted By: >>16701476

>>16701270

>If they made more money from sales they wouldn't try and earn more money from a service!

Pretty sure Pokebank would still cost $5 even if they sold quadruple the amount of games they have. Why? Because it's money that can be made, and people have proven that they are willing to shell it out. Gamefreak isn't some starving indie group, they're a multimillion dollar company that earns far more than what they spend on the games, so the few million dollars earned from Pokebank is just more money to stack onto their pile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:17:19 No.16701430 Report

Quoted By: >>16701476 >>16701510

>>16701057
>>16700957
>>16700654
and then this faggot showed up

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO isdisniggaserious.jpg, 44KiB, 500x357

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:17:35 No.16701434 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698492
>Lumineon
>shitty

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:19:08 No.16701467 Report

Quoted By: >>16701499

>>16701270
That in no way tells us how many times the titles have been downloaded by one person though.

God knows I own the games, but even I have downloaded them time and time again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:19:33 No.16701476 Report

Quoted By: >>16701733

>>16701430
I was here since the start, and I just couldn't suffer all the wrong in this thread.

>>16701426
Actually, since the Pokemon Company and Gamefreak are owned by Nintendo, and Nintendo is the publisher, they're self-publishing, hence placing them as independent or "indie".

You might not consider them to be so because they're giant, but that would mean expanding the definition of indie, which is superfluous. I'm sorry they didn't meet your expectations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:20:30 No.16701494 Report

Quoted By: >>16701568

Something like kyogre could sweep most OU teams by itself. I considered a similar system myself back in gen 4 and determined it wouldn't work, and that was before they started making pokemon with 150+ attacking stats like they were nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:20:38 No.16701499 Report

Quoted By: >>16701513

>>16701467
Well I certainly hope you deleted the file after 24 hours, since that's beyond the scope of your temporary archival period.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:21:19 No.16701510 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701198
Okay so let me get this straight, please correct me if I've got it wrong.

You want to play in popular tournaments but don't want to play by the same rules everyone else is following because you don't agree with them.

And what? I mean you can't have your cake and eat it too. Smogon rulesets are popular because a lot of people think they make it more enjoyable. If you want to play with no limitations you're naturally going to find a smaller group that would participate.

As long as everyone agrees on the rules it's as "fair" as it can possibly be.

>>16701430
That's what I'm saying

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:21:25 No.16701513 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701499
You, my friend, are a funny guy, and I like you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:21:37 No.16701521 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698555
That's not balanced at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:22:38 No.16701544 Report

Quoted By: >>16701601

why don't you just play the actual game, I don't understand

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:22:39 No.16701545 Report

Quoted By:

>>16699252
>wob
>not still smashing shit up in ubers
Learn to play

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:23:32 No.16701568 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701494
Which is why most ubers are being tentatively valued above the point cap. You can always make an "uber" tier anyway by just removing the cap if you want. At least I would hope so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:24:18 No.16701579 Report

Quoted By: >>16701605

Will the potential of a pokemon to mega-evolve be counted to it's regular point total? Will items have a separate point total? Or will mons with their stones attatched have a higher point total?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:25:16 No.16701601 Report

Quoted By: >>16701657

>>16701544
Because it can take forever to breed the right team and test it on ranked, just for your strategy to be shit.

I personally test things on showdown and then depending on how well things work out I'll breed them for real.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:25:21 No.16701605 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701579
They'll probably put a cost on an item.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:26:09 No.16701622 Report

Quoted By: >>16701646 >>16701648

If you're forced to use shitmons in your teams to not go over a point limit, isn't that exactly as restricting as you guys say Smogon is? How are you going to fit all your favorites in your team if all of them happen to be good?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:27:11 No.16701646 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701622
You'd better hope all your favourites are in the same tier by smogon rules

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:27:13 No.16701648 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701622
You'll play on showdown I guess, which is one of the chief issues I can see with this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:27:36 No.16701657 Report

Quoted By: >>16701710

>>16701601
I guess so. Once you get started though, the process becomes extremely fast and easy if you breed a 5/6 iv male and female of everything you do, plus a little extra so you can trade, as well as make more of that Pokemon and use the male as a father for egg groups.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:28:14 No.16701671 Report

Quoted By: >>16701710

so will there still be leagues/tiers with different point caps?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:28:41 No.16701681 Report

Quoted By: >>16701711

>>16701270
You do realize that people who actually purchase the games probably downloaded the roms as well, right?

I have a NDS adapter+. I rip my saves from my cartridges and then play them on the computer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:29:57 No.16701710 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701657
Well yeah it's miles ahead of what it was but then when you've been playing on sims forever you sort of just get used to it.

>>16701671
I really hope so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:29:57 No.16701711 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701681
>I have a NDS adapter+
Such a tool cannot be licensed by Nintendo. Surely you are voiding your warranty, if not doing activities completed discouraged by Nintendo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:30:44 No.16701733 Report

Quoted By: >>16701781 >>16701848

>>16701476
Regardless the point still stands that Gamefreak is an extremely successful company and they aren't desperate for the money netted from Pokebank. They want it because it's money, not because they are in desperate need for it.

Although to play the devil's advocate, it may be Nintendo pushing for the pokebank fee and Gamefreak is innocent in this, I don't know who is responsible for this. But even then, Nintendo has even less need for the money earned from Pokebank.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may indeed be, but I do believe that Gamefreak still earns money from the anime/TCG despite not being fully responsible for their production.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:33:01 No.16701781 Report

Quoted By: >>16701807 >>16702104

>>16701733
Servers will need to be maintained

And I imagine most of the profits from cartridges go towards the next game, not server maintenance . Not saying they don't make a profit off of it but it isn't exactly outlandish to subscribe to a service like this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:34:27 No.16701807 Report

Quoted By: >>16701861

>>16701781
>Servers
Bandwidth is actually really fucking cheap, especially if they own their own servers (which they do)

Seriously, $10/mo for unlimited would still be overpriced in pretty much any modern city. Companies only get away with $30-$60+ because they can

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:35:20 No.16701822 Report

Quoted By:

>>16700285
Something that will still result in you losing a mon 30% of the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:36:42 No.16701848 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701733
Cloud storage isn't free. It costs money to keep the servers maintained and store the data. Although, since the data is minimal, it's mostly just keeping the servers up and running.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:37:32 No.16701861 Report

Quoted By: >>16702104

>>16701807
Maintenance is more than bandwidth you still have to pay people to make sure everything is running smooth.

Either way you slice it, $5 a year is nothing and it's certainly not worth getting bent out of shape for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:48:22 No.16702104 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701781
Do note that Gamefreak don't have to concern themselves with many costs external to the maintenance of the company itself and it's assets/employees, as well as the money put into researching, developing and creating the games themselves. Presumably the Pokemon Company as well as Nintendo aid if not outright bear the costs of things such as advertising, marketing and other costs that Gamefreak would have to face if they were self-publishing. Although I will note that both Nintendo and the Pokemon Company earn a fair amount of money earned from game sales.

>>16701861
I'm not worried about $5 either, although I do worry that it will encourage Gamefreak/Nintendo to start including even more micro-transactions/paid DLC or other methods of earning small sums of money. Look at the new PMD game and the paid DLC within it for example. Want to unlock another dungeon and earn that particular Pokemon? It'll cost you a dollar or two.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:48:52 No.16702107 Report

Quoted By:

>>16698492
So, Capcom Vs. SNK 1.

We all know how well THAT worked.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 03:57:12 No.16702258 Report

Quoted By:

Oh great, now it'll just be cookie-cutter teams of which pokemon are the best for their value. This won't fix anything, it'll just make different pokemon meta as fuck. That being said, I'll try it out just to see if I'm wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 04:57:12 No.16703447 Report

Quoted By:

>>16701270
>of gross income denied due to piracy.

>no one can ever download the same file more than once

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