/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #16709379

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Mega Charizard X & Y

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 15:39:17 No.16709379 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>16709393 >>16709635

So, we've had some time to test them out.

Which one is more effective in battle overall?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 15:41:05 No.16709393 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709379
Depends on your team

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 15:51:37 No.16709476 Report

Quoted By: >>16709572

X with Dragon Dance.

Y is great but just a little too slow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 15:54:10 No.16709499 Report

Quoted By:

The fact that they both exist make both better, if nothing more than the surprise factor. They're so radically different that if someone switches in the wrong thing expecting one and getting the other, they risk getting nuked to hell or watching as a beast sets up in their face.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 15:58:46 No.16709528 Report

Quoted By: >>16709578 >>16709581 >>16709617

I feel that Y is better for 3v3 for its ability to hit like a nuclear chainsaw from the first turn. Until Heatran comes back it's also really hard to counter.

X is an excellent dragon dancer but he's so easily walled by Azumarill.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:00:25 No.16709546 Report

Quoted By:

I like and own both.

Heavy Metal Charizard seems to fuck with the Battle Maison AI

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:02:30 No.16709572 Report

Quoted By: >>16709592 >>16709600 >>16710872

>>16709476
who needs speed when you have balk

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-70102561

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:03:08 No.16709578 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709528
>X is an excellent dragon dancer but he's so easily walled by Azumarill.

What? X can eat two attacks from Azumarill and take it down with two neutral Earthquakes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:03:28 No.16709581 Report

Quoted By: >>16710041

>>16709528
>he's so easily walled by Azumarill.

Earthquake

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:04:30 No.16709592 Report

Quoted By: >>16709608 >>16709902

>>16709572
>bulk
>dies to any thunderbolt or rocks

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:05:54 No.16709600 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709572
>http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-70102561

4 of the opponent's Pokemon lose to Charizard's STAB attacks, and one gets nerfed in the sun and can't counter Solarbeam. That battle really only proves that you were facing someone with a badly composed team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:06:43 No.16709608 Report

Quoted By: >>16709802

>>16709592
>rocks
how are you gonna kill me with rocks when I'm leading good job getting flamed or solarbeamed to death
>thunderbolt
what is switching

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:07:05 No.16709617 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709528
>X is an excellent dragon dancer but he's so easily walled by Azumarill.

>+1 Earthquake 2HKOs
>gets Tough Claws boosted Thunder Punch from Pokebank

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:07:19 No.16709618 Report

Quoted By:

Y is a nuke and X is one of the best Dragon Dancers in the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:08:31 No.16709635 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709379

Depends on your team, but I fucking love X as a DD sweeper, hits like a truck.

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?]

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?] Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:09:00 No.16709643 Report

Quoted By: >>16709663

Y is probably overall easier to fit on a team than X. It self serves and comes off with it's power immediately. Also, due to the weather being nerfed, the rest of the team doesn't have to worry much about any disadvantages.

X requires more team support but still is amazing in it's own right. Tough Claws essentially mitigates the lack of item issue, and it's coverage is absolutely phenomenal. The type change between it's two forms, huge defense boost (which is more significant than you might think), better defensive typing, and access to Roost make it surprisingly durable. It's easily the best DDancer in the game now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:11:18 No.16709663 Report

Quoted By: >>16709690

>>16709643
>X requires more team support
How?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:12:24 No.16709678 Report

Quoted By: >>16709707 >>16709731 >>16709754

Charizard X is a better Salamence

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?]

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?] Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:13:29 No.16709690 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709663
It's not by a huge margin, but for any pokemon that needs to set up, it's a rule of thumb that you typically need team support for the sake of forcing your foe into a "checkmate" situation where you can set up with no loss.

On top of that, while X does hit like a truck, it's still beneficial for it to have opposing walls and checks softened. While X does have options to hit Azumarill, Azumarill is still a decent checking option, so the more damage you have on that thing the less you have to worry about a sweep ending soon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:15:36 No.16709707 Report

Quoted By: >>16709731 >>16712292

>>16709678
>Charizard X is a better Salamence

It's amazing how big of a jump Charizard has made since last generation.

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?]

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?] Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:18:14 No.16709731 Report

Quoted By: >>16709768

>>16709678
I wouldn't quite say that. It's a better DDer than Mence, but MoxieScarf Mence is still a massive immediate threat. Mence is the best Moxie user, for sure. Also, Mence doesn't take up a Mega slot..
They both have their uses.

>>16709707
That's for sure, though. I love that this all happened at the peak of the whole "hurr durr how u liek dem sneaky pebbles shitzard?" spamsludge that was going around.
People were even in denial, saying that they'd still suck even after the mega. Now they're top tier megas. I love it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:21:00 No.16709754 Report

Quoted By: >>16709787 >>16709898

>>16709678
It's better at the DD set and has better STAB but Char X can't run Scarf or Moxie sets, Mence is still menacing

I don't think Y gets enough credit, it's stupid hard to counter. If it lacks Focus Blast then Tyranitar counters it, though. Not sure about Blissey and Chansey.

If it does have Focus Blast then only Rotom-H and Rotom-S can counter it afaik

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:21:29 No.16709768 Report

Quoted By: >>16709858

>>16709731
>moxiescarf
>viable anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:23:04 No.16709787 Report

Quoted By: >>16710188

>>16709754
>it's stupid hard to counter

solarbeam literally does not one shot rotom wash

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:24:42 No.16709802 Report

Quoted By: >>16709902

>>16709608
Can you show some calcs on how MCY dies to a single tbolt? I think that, with its high Sp.def he can at least survive one, kill and then recover with roost.

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?]

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?] Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:29:24 No.16709858 Report

Quoted By: >>16709942

>>16709768
Still does the same thing it did before. It just has to watch out for Azumarill and Aegislash now. That's not nearly enough to take the single most destructive force of OU last gen out of viability...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:31:57 No.16709898 Report

Quoted By: >>16709945

>>16709754
Chansey laughs at Charizard Y. Charizard X is a threat if used smartly however. This is from the perspective of a Eviolite Counter Chansey user.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:32:10 No.16709902 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709802
Oops, meant to quote >>16709592

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:34:47 No.16709942 Report

Quoted By: >>16709977

>>16709858
> single most destructive force of OU last gen out of viability...

That's not Latios or terrakion or keldeo

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:35:05 No.16709945 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709898
This is why both megas are good, because they make Charizard extremely unpredictable, your physical wall is killed by Y while your special wall dies to X.

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?]

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?] Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:38:05 No.16709977 Report

Quoted By: >>16710003

>>16709942
Latios and Terrakion got hard shut down by the most common pokemon in the game. Latios was pursuit bait. In fact, it wasn't even in the top 10 used pokemon, and it's attacking stats aren't as high, nor does it have access to as strong of moves, so I don't know what you're talking about with that.

Keldeo was great but it was walled easier than Mence was.

All of those pokemon were good, but none of them came in and swept as easily as MoxieMence did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:39:44 No.16709995 Report

Quoted By:

depends on play style. sunny team w/spattck or physical sweeper

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:40:24 No.16710003 Report

Quoted By: >>16710020

>>16709977
>attacking stats aren't as high

What the fuck are you talking about? Specs Latios was the single most powerful single turn pokemon in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:40:32 No.16710004 Report

Quoted By: >>16710025 >>16710039

Where would you place both Charizards in terms of megas? I'd place them at 5th/6th place not counting Mewtwo. Opinions obviously.

Kanga
Gengar
Blaziken
Lucario
Pinsir/Charizard
Venusaur
Gyarados

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?]

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?] Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:42:13 No.16710020 Report

Quoted By: >>16710030

>>16710003
You don't sweep with Spec's Draco Meteors, son.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:42:43 No.16710025 Report

Quoted By:

>>16710004
Kanga
Blaziken
Gengar
Lucario
Charizards
Pinsir

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:43:11 No.16710030 Report

Quoted By: >>16710055

>>16710020
That wasn't the damn point. You can hit and run and destroy everything in gen 5 OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:44:16 No.16710039 Report

Quoted By:

>>16710004
Kanga, Gar and Blaze are top three without a doubt

Fourth is Luke. Then probably Zards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:44:22 No.16710041 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709581
Flare Blitz actually does slightly more than Earthquake due to the Tough Claws boost and STAB

On topic with the thread: I think they're both equally great by their own merits. Y having higher SpAtk than X's Atk means he can hit hard right away. But X is a great Dragon Dancer.

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?]

Zero 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?] Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:45:58 No.16710055 Report

Quoted By: >>16710096

>>16710030
Until you get Pursuit trapped by 2 of themost common pokemon in OU.

You don't hit and run an entire team. You break walls with them. Besides, if you were reading, I was talking about sweepers the entire time, not wall breakers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 16:51:12 No.16710096 Report

Quoted By:

>>16710055
>most destructive force
>talking specifically about sweepers

no

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 17:04:11 No.16710188 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709787
>252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Rotom-W: 252-298 (82.8 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's darn close though, and will force a switch at very low HP at worst, or a 2HKO at best since zard is faster. If you have hazards set up that rotom is dead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 17:07:58 No.16710216 Report

Quoted By: >>16710264

Why don't merge both Mega Evos together and give it a forme-change ability like Aegislash?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 17:12:53 No.16710264 Report

Quoted By: >>16710660

>>16710216
>Turn 1
>Turn into Charizard Y
>Set up Drought
>Use Dragon Dance

>Turn 2
>Turn into Charizard X
>FLARE BLITZ THE METAGAME TO DEATH

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 17:12:57 No.16710266 Report

Quoted By:

252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 272-320 (91.5 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Fuckers always stay at literally 1 pixel of health.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 17:24:27 No.16710387 Report

Quoted By: >>16710980

Has anyone tried to do a Mixed Y? Or just run DD on it for the speed.

Hell you could DD, but hold off on the Mega while they switch in their X counter. Next turn you turn into Y and wreck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 17:46:18 No.16710660 Report

Quoted By: >>16710733

>>16710264

If it had Forme-Change, it wouldn't have Drought.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 17:51:26 No.16710733 Report

Quoted By: >>16711575

>>16710660
What if it was a megastone that allowed you to switch between the two at any time?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 18:06:22 No.16710872 Report

Quoted By:

>>16709572
EV spread? I just go with max SpAtk and Spd. Moveset is Heat Wave, Air Slash, Solar Beam and Dragon Pulse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 18:17:34 No.16710980 Report

Quoted By:

>>16710387
It really doesn't work

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 18:20:44 No.16711021 Report

Quoted By: >>16711062 >>16711261 >>16711909

I hope we get the chance to normally evolve Charizard into MegaX or MegaY in a next gen game. That way we could use items on them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 18:24:27 No.16711062 Report

Quoted By:

>>16711021
I hope we don't get that.
Then we would have to face the horrors of Megamom with an item.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 18:39:56 No.16711261 Report

Quoted By: >>16711588

>>16711021
I hope next gen finally introduces triple types, so all zards can be Fire/Dragon/Flying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 19:08:54 No.16711575 Report

Quoted By: >>16711717

>>16710733
Been wondering. is it possible to have something switch x/y stone mid battle?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 19:10:09 No.16711588 Report

Quoted By: >>16711875

>>16711261
>Trick or Treat on that
>Fire/Dragon/Flying/Ghost

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 19:22:10 No.16711717 Report

Quoted By: >>16712194

>>16711575
No, Megastones are glued on and can't be removed by Knock Off/Trick/Bestow

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 19:35:17 No.16711875 Report

Quoted By: >>16712173

>>16711588
>Forest's Curse it
>Fire/Dragon/Flying/Ghost/Grass

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 19:38:24 No.16711909 Report

Quoted By:

>>16711021
pls no
imagine eviolite mawile

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 19:56:17 No.16712173 Report

Quoted By:

>>16711875
Forest's Curse replaces ToT and vice versa. That's how they're testing the 3rd type due for introduction nex gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 19:58:35 No.16712194 Report

Quoted By: >>16712271

>>16711717
Which is stupid. I hate how GF tries to force things in competitive like streamlining certain Pokemon or making certain things overpowered. As it is, there is 0 reason to not have a mega on your team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 20:03:55 No.16712271 Report

Quoted By: >>16712359

>>16712194
No it makes sense, you're essentially going without a held item which is punishment enough. Having the items removed or shut down removes a lot of viability for Megas. Really besides M-Gengar and M-Kanga (and M-Blaziken I guess but it's basically the same as normal Speed Boost Blaziken) it's a lot like carrying a Pseudo on your team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 20:05:39 No.16712292 Report

Quoted By: >>16712405

>>16709707

Yeah but you have to use him as your Mega or he's useless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 20:07:40 No.16712316 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 20:10:24 No.16712359 Report

Quoted By: >>16712406 >>16712462

>>16712271
But they buff Knock Off so it's now one of the best moves in the game, but not against Megas. Against Megas it's worse than bite. The idea for Megas was cool, but they could have made it so much better if they had thought through it more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 20:13:20 No.16712405 Report

Quoted By:

>>16712292
No he's not. Do you just want to keep using Mega-Kanga forever? Megas are optional anyway, and should really be treated as part of your team meaning if a Dragon Dancer is what you want then Mega Charizard X is a viable choice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 20:13:34 No.16712406 Report

Quoted By: >>16712479

>>16712359
Knock Off does boosted damage against megas

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 20:17:35 No.16712462 Report

Quoted By:

>>16712359
Right but see other than Mega Evolving, they don't get much usage out of the item. No leftovers, etc. which is something quite a few Megas hurt from. Basically they don't need it any worse in that regard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2013 20:18:30 No.16712479 Report

Quoted By:

>>16712406
False. It only does extra damage if the item is knocked off or if they have an item and sticky hold. Items that can't be knocked off prevent the extra damage.

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