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Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:02:37 No.17126383 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>17126454 >>17126469 >>17126470 >>17126556 >>17126639 >>17127590

>Donphan, Sylveon, Tentacruel, Goodra, Greninja and Infernape OU
>Latias, Manaphy, Keldeo, Kyurem-B, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Politoed and Tornadus-T UU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:04:04 No.17126406 Report

Quoted By: >>17126448 >>17126470 >>17126500

keldeo is shit and walled by everything

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:07:14 No.17126448 Report

Quoted By: >>17126455

>>17126406
>Keldeo
>shit
>implying Greninja is any better

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:07:35 No.17126454 Report

Quoted By: >>17126494 >>17126506

>>17126383
>Overused
>Underused
>not understanding tiers
Also Klefki is a better spiker then Deoxys-D/S. The only Pokemon that will will go to BL/OU are Tornadus, Kyurem-B and Keldeo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:07:49 No.17126455 Report

Quoted By: >>17126471

>>17126448
greninja isn't walled by jellicent and slowking

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:09:14 No.17126469 Report

Quoted By: >>17126562

>>17126383
Tiers are based in usage, so...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:09:15 No.17126470 Report

Quoted By: >>17126481

>>17126383
>tentacruel
debatable, it's one of the best spinners in the tier
>greninja
BL at best
>politoed
pretty average, I think it's good for the meta
>>17126406
looks like someone doesn't know how to paly

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:09:22 No.17126471 Report

Quoted By: >>17126488 >>17126503 >>17126528

>>17126455
>implying those two have any relevance in OU
Greninja is walled by any half decent special wall, unlike Keldeo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:10:17 No.17126481 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126470
Oh, by "at best" I mean "at lowest"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:10:52 No.17126488 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126471
>relevance in OU
>keldeo is UU
Retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:11:15 No.17126494 Report

Quoted By: >>17126529

>>17126454
>Tornadus, Kyurem-B and Keldeo
that's not Manaphy, Bisharp, Kyurem-B and Latias

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tectonic.jpg, 97KiB, 684x627

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:11:34 No.17126500 Report

Quoted By: >>17126540

>>17126406
This

Keldeo's only real popularity was from the constant Rainspam in gen5

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:11:49 No.17126503 Report

Quoted By: >>17126514

>>17126471
>u turn

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:12:05 No.17126506 Report

Quoted By: >>17126596 >>17126597

>>17126454
Oh for the love of god WE ALL KNOW HOW TIERS ARE FORMED, STOP reminding us every time that tiers are based on usage.

The criticism they get is perfectly justified because this system doesn't work any more.

We need actual power tiers, not this usage bullshit.
What's worse is that they're hell bent on keeping the OU size at ~50 pokemon even though there are 700+ now, with 100+ of them being perfectly viable in high tier play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:13:01 No.17126514 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126503
>switch out
Walls don't exist anymore amirite?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:13:55 No.17126528 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126471
Oh yeah, it's walled by heaps of special walls, like latias
oh wait
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 260-307 (86 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
well its walled by jellicent at least right
oh wait
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 234-276 (77.4 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
w-well at least I still have my trevenant right?
oh wait
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 265-315 (70.8 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

tldr; greninja breaks more walls than keldeo

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:14:02 No.17126529 Report

Quoted By: >>17126589 >>17126655

>>17126494
>Bisharp
u wot m8? It only has knock off and sucker punch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:14:21 No.17126532 Report

Quoted By: >>17126580 >>17126695 >>17126797

>Sylveon
Hype.
>Goodra
Hype.
>Greninja
Ok, this one will stay, but it'll be mid-low OU.
>Tentacruel
Es good, but yeah, it might drop.

>Latias
Will go back to OU
>Keldeo
Will go back to OU
>Kyu-b
Will go back to OU
>Deo-S
Kek this one goes to ubers
>Deo-D
I'm not that sure about this one, but it may get kicked to ubers as well.
>Tornadus-T
OU as well.

Why is shit like Donphan and Cloyster still OU is beyond me, though. They're trash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:14:54 No.17126540 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126500

Keldeo is still beast outside of rain.

Secret Sword shits on special walls like Chansey.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:16:03 No.17126556 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126383
>latias UU
I don't see why that would make me stop using my poké-sis in OU.
Sure, it's gonna be hard to use her freely and shit, but can't give her up because of smogon fags.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:16:24 No.17126562 Report

Quoted By: >>17126596 >>17126983

>>17126469
They shouldn't.
Ubers is the only fair tier because it's based on actual power instead of usage (Deoxys-N is broken as fuck for OU even though it sees almost no usage).
Why can't all tiers be formed like ubers?
If something is too strong/weak it gets moved to another tier, it's that simple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:18:32 No.17126580 Report

Quoted By: >>17126614

>>17126532
Cloyster isn't trash, especially now that Defog fixes its SR weakness and can actually set-up late game, something a lategame sweeper is supposed to do.
It's also one of the very few physical sweepers that don't rely on contact moves so it's not fucked by Aegislash and Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:19:00 No.17126589 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126529

And Iron Head.

And due to the nerf to Steel, and the advent of Fairy, I belive Steel + Dark is perfect, or near perfect coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:19:30 No.17126596 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126562
If ubers were put in OU they would be at top usage. Just look at Genesect.

Honestly I think they should just make tiers bigger like >>17126506 said 100+ are perfectly viable

DMC 3454-0931-3144 - Magmar, Braixen, Larvesta !!Jq0HSOwoPX5

DMC 3454-0931-3144 - Magmar, Braixen, Larvesta !!Jq0HSOwoPX5 Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:19:31 No.17126597 Report

Quoted By: >>17126610

>>17126506
3rd Gen tiers were actually power based.

Further proving 3rd gen is best gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:21:03 No.17126610 Report

Quoted By: >>17126644

>>17126597

Nope, they were still usage-based

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:21:28 No.17126614 Report

Quoted By: >>17126675 >>17126752

>>17126580
Cloyster is a pokemon only used in the lower ladder because scrubs can't handle it. It's ridiculously easy to handle.

I don't know why this angers me, but fuck Cloyster. It feels like I'm playing 6-5. Yeah, I know it's free points and all, but fuck, why would anyone use it. Have you ever seen a Cloyster get more than one kill?
The only time I recall getting a pokemon killed by Cloyster was yesterday when some scrub killed my ttar because he was using King's Rock and it made it flinch. I 5-0'd him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:24:00 No.17126639 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126383
>not mentioning all the megas that will be UU only because they're not as good as mega lucario
I wonder how long it will take for Medicham to get banned to BL.

DMC 3454-0931-3144 - Magmar, Braixen, Larvesta !!Jq0HSOwoPX5

DMC 3454-0931-3144 - Magmar, Braixen, Larvesta !!Jq0HSOwoPX5 Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:24:42 No.17126644 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126610
>Usage based
>no way for Smogon to track usage stats on NetBattle

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:25:49 No.17126655 Report

Quoted By: >>17126697

>>17126529
with defiant it can effectively get a free sd off a predicted defog. there's hardly any priority in this tier, and the most common users of mach punch/vacuum wave are locked up in ou. pretty well nothing in the tier can wall it at +2, and it's hard to revenge kill

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:27:45 No.17126675 Report

Quoted By: >>17126722 >>17126727

>>17126614
People use Cloyster wrong. White Herb is shit. Focus Sash is shit. Hydro Pump/Razor Shell is shit. King's Rock is shit.
Always run Ice Shard and Life Orb. You'd be surprised at how many easy OHKO's it can get.

Back in BW it would destroy sun and sand teams on the high ladder by itself.
I haven't used it much in XY but looking at some calcs it has potential:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 160-195 (49.3 - 60.1%) -- approx. 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 72-85 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- 16.6% chance to 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 405-480 (111.2 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 300-355 (98.6 - 116.7%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO

White Herb is useful only against Smogonbird since it lets Cloyster avoid the OHKO from CB Brave Bird.
Otherwise LO is the way to go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:27:49 No.17126676 Report

Quoted By: >>17126701 >>17126766

I wonder if Fletchinder will see any usage in UU, it's basically a frailer Talonflame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:29:22 No.17126695 Report

Quoted By: >>17126766

>>17126532
Cloyster is good, but nobody knows how to use it.
Everyone that uses it is that greedy faggot that goes for the double smash since my white herb, thinking they can survive two hits, specially the second one.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:29:32 No.17126697 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126655
>Defiant against Sticky Web

It's just so scary

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:30:04 No.17126701 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126676

It's slower than Talonflame and doesn't have Flare Blitz, forcing it to rely on Flame Charge for Fire STAB

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:31:54 No.17126722 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126675
>+2

so it's only half those damage in real condition. pretty shit there

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:32:02 No.17126727 Report

Quoted By: >>17126805

>>17126675
Hydro Pump was it's best option last gen, though, because of rain. It let Cloyster take out shit like non spd Jirachi.

While I agree about Focus Sash and White Herb, the thing is still not OU material. I mean, you could go and calc Barbaracle too, and it destroys a lot of shit, but that doesn't mean it's safe to use it OU. Cloyster is as easy to handle as to just attack as it switches in, and then revenge with priority. If it's actually faster than your poke, you can even OHKO it as it sets up. It has trouble setting up on the biggest part of the tier, and even at +2 there's a bunch of shit it just can't OHKO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:34:28 No.17126752 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126614
Cloyster has a bad reputation because low ladder scrubs think that using a Focus Sash lead set on something that is strictly a lategame sweeper is a good idea.

It's like using Focus Sash Lucario as a lead and then wonder why it gets walled by everything and their mother.

It's a fucking glass cannon and needs to be used as such to be good. Get rid of rocks with spin/Defog, use Gliscor or some shit as set up bait lategame and wreck shit.

Vacuum Wave Lucario is a problem though, but if Lucarionite gets banned I can see Cloyster being good again.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:35:48 No.17126766 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126695
Fucking this

>>17126676
No access to Blitz, BB, or Bulk Up (you know people would try it) but maybe just Acrobatic spam could work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:38:48 No.17126797 Report

Quoted By: >>17126815 >>17126828

>>17126532
>Donphan
Submerged Tombstones not very effective + rapid spin

>Cloyster
shell Smash gimmick

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:39:45 No.17126805 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126727
Barbaracle looks better than Cloyster on paper but it isn't because of a few key flaws:
-68 base speed means it can't outspeed important targets that Cloyster can after a SS, such as Terrakion
-relies on inaccurate (Cross Chop, Stone Edge), contact (Razor Shell) or not-so-strong non-STAB moves (EQ) so it's a lot easier to wall than Cloyster
-has issues with Megasaur, unlike Cloyster
-no priority, which is important in priority: the metagame

As for Cloyster, I respect your opinion anon but I still see it as a legitimate OU threat outside of that horrible lead set that doesn't acocmplish anything. Maybe it'll change, who knows.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:40:51 No.17126815 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126797
There are much better spinners than Donphan, and much better defensive Ground types than Donphan. Also there's the Defog buff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:41:56 No.17126828 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126797

Donphan is completely outclassed by Excadrill in the spinning deparment. It needs to go to UU, because it'd be a great spinner there.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:49:45 No.17126931 Report

Quoted By: >>17126954 >>17126955 >>17126958 >>17126967 >>17126986

Rate my UU team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:52:09 No.17126954 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126931

>Poison Jab
>not Bullet Punch

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:52:12 No.17126955 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126931
>Poison Jab over burrito
Everything else looks all right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:52:45 No.17126958 Report

Quoted By: >>17126981

>>17126931
Ghosts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:53:46 No.17126967 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126931
Incredibly weak to ghost
>poison jab
>Not bullet punch

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:56:14 No.17126981 Report

Quoted By: >>17126995

>>17126958
All two of them? Cofagrigus and Mismagius, that's about it in UU iirc.

Though Mismaigus got Dazzling Gleam and outspeeds Hydreigon, so may want a good answer to that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:56:25 No.17126983 Report

Quoted By: >>17127368

>>17126562
The borderline tiers exist for a reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:56:37 No.17126986 Report

Quoted By: >>17127013

>>17126931
I was going to say that choice scarf medicham with ice punch is better, but then remembered that the threats that counters don't exist in UU.
Wait Gliscor is OU right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:56:56 No.17126989 Report

Quoted By: >>17127020

i'm breeding a goodra atm.. is it really overused? why

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 10:57:14 No.17126995 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126981

Jellicent is there too, but Thunder Punch should handle him

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 11:00:03 No.17127013 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126986
Ice Punch is really only good for Lando-T, Dragonite, bulky Garchomp, and Gliscor, which are all OU.

My thinking was it wouldn't be a very good coverage move in UU, so I used Poison Jab (thinking fairies I guess, I dunno) but forgetting Bullet Punch (which is IMO not useful in OU. Medicham requires Ice/Thunder and STABs for wall breaking in OU.)

Thunderpunch is required for Slowbro.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 11:00:31 No.17127020 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126989
Metagame is still forming, people fall in love with any decent thing from the new gen. Goodra will likely fall in usage when it settles down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 11:48:29 No.17127368 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126983
They exist for damage control for a flawed system, which is precisely my point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jan 2014 12:17:12 No.17127590 Report

Quoted By:

>>17126383
Politoed I can understand and Manaphy never seemed that great to me anyways. Keldeo and the Deoxys forms are alright as well.

But Latias, Kyurem-B, and Tornadus-T getting sent down to UU? I don't fucking care if nobody uses them in OU, UU can't handle that shit.

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