/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #18144085

[75 / 6 / ?]

176KiB, 633x456, bl.png

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 10:39:16 No.18144085 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>18144396 >>18144701 >>18147378

look at all this shit that got banned from uu. who's next?

mega heracross, mega gardevoir and mega medicham also got banned

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 10:47:24 No.18144115 Report

Quoted By:

>weavile

Fuck. At least Snorlax is still there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 10:49:35 No.18144133 Report

Quoted By:

NU was always the best tier, why is it taking them so long?

At least Terrakion might actually be balanced now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 10:56:57 No.18144181 Report

Quoted By: >>18144206

Wasn't Wobbuffet already in BL? I was kind of hoping it would drop so I could have some fun in UU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:02:01 No.18144206 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144181
It was in Gen 5, but Gen 6 BL only just got created.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:04:19 No.18144220 Report

Quoted By: >>18144252 >>18144268 >>18144291 >>18145158

wait, why staraptor? Isn't it outclassed by smogonbrid in every way?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:05:56 No.18144230 Report

Quoted By:

gg scolibro

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:10:03 No.18144252 Report

Quoted By: >>18144262

>>18144220
>not having both in your team

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:11:57 No.18144262 Report

Quoted By: >>18147333

>>18144252
>letting sneaky pebblers have a field day.

no thanks anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:13:11 No.18144268 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144220
The power of Smogonbird's Brave Bird is not even remotely close to the sheer force of Staraptor's STAB moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:15:23 No.18144291 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144220
talonflame is OU you dolt

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:18:35 No.18144321 Report

Quoted By: >>18144342

Highly Used when?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:20:45 No.18144342 Report

Quoted By: >>18144355

>>18144321
Wouldn't that basically be BL then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:22:27 No.18144355 Report

Quoted By: >>18144377

>>18144342
BL isn't an actual tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:24:54 No.18144377 Report

Quoted By: >>18147854

>>18144355
Technically it is a tier, just not a metagame.
I honestly don't see why they don't just merge it with OU given there's no metagame in which BL is legal and OU isn't. I get that these Pokémon don't get enough usage to earn them the name OU, but practically they're in exactly the same situation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:27:36 No.18144396 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144085
>diggersby and staraptor
feelsgoodman.png

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:41:18 No.18144502 Report

Quoted By: >>18144641

Why is the metagame so fucked? I mean, is the power creep really so ridiculous or are people just playing with their new toys? I can't honestly believe that Pokemon like Greninja, Bisharp, and Azumarill are so much better than Landorus, Terrakion, or Kyurem-B, who have all dropped down to UU (and now have to be banned).

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1386375346176.png, 150KiB, 488x462

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:50:17 No.18144569 Report

Quoted By: >>18145263 >>18148280 >>18148697

>People still thinking Smogon tiers work

le top kek. This is why tiers should be based on the actual viability of Pokemon, not the usage. What kind of retarded tiering system is that anyway? When new Gen brings new Pokemon, players use them and older powerful Mons drop in usage, in which case this happens.

>Powerful Pokemon X drops down to UU
>Whoops, it's too good to be here, it must be banned
>Another powerful Pokemon drops down to UU
>Whoops, this is too powerful too, better ban it
>Another powerful Pokemon drops down to UU...

This is a prime example of Smogon's tiering system not working. It works properly if and only if people just use the most viable Mons. This is not the case, however, so Smogon has to keep banning Pokemon again and again to keep a tier balanced. If this continues, they're going to have to make a new metagame between UU and OU, which is not based on usage but instead the power of the Pokemon who are too good to be in UU. Why not take this further? Usage tiers are absolutely retarded. People thought that Electivire in Gen IV OU was bad but now this situation is getting completely out of hand.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:51:47 No.18144579 Report

Quoted By:

>using smogon

You are cancer

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:54:29 No.18144595 Report

Quoted By: >>18144619

ITT: People not understanding usage statistics and blaming Smogon for people using good Pokemon

Smogon didn't tell you what Pokemon would be good this gen. People use what they use, and because of that a tiering system is built around it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 11:58:54 No.18144619 Report

Quoted By: >>18144667 >>18144700

>>18144595
What are people not understanding? Tiers based on usage do not work. Pokemon that are too powerful for UU keep dropping there, and Smogon either has to keep banning them or make a new metagame between UU and OU. Is that your idea of a working system?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 12:00:14 No.18144631 Report

Quoted By: >>18148796 >>18148925

At this rate, BL will become its own metagame. There's still stuff in UU that probably shouldn't be there. BL will get bigger before it gets any smaller.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 12:01:39 No.18144641 Report

Quoted By: >>18147688

>>18144502
The new hotness will always get used more than it should. Remember the people that were desperately trying to use Dragalge in OU? The fact that there are so many mons to choose from and only a certain amount of spots in OU (which is really fucking stupid btw, there should be a power cutoff instead of a usage cutoff), there will be plenty of old, still totally viable mons in BL.

Pigbane 5258-0458-7331

Pigbane 5258-0458-7331 Wed 19 Feb 2014 12:06:22 No.18144667 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144619
>Pokemon that are too powerful for UU keep dropping there

It's called power creep, and it gets worse with each new generation. What is and isn't "too powerful" for ANY tier is constantly going to be changing each generation (unless Smogon adds even more tiers).

Besides, this is why there IS a banning system in place, so it not completely usage based.

It's not perfect, but given the stink everytime "da Smogon council" bans something it's the best we have. Unless...you have a better idea?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 12:10:36 No.18144698 Report

Quoted By: >>18144834 >>18147420 >>18148385

"6 or more y's = ban.

Hydreigon - yyyyy
Chansey - yyy
Chandelure - yyy
Medichamite - yyyyyyyyyyy
Gardevorite - yyyyyyyyyy
Diggersby - yyyyyyyyy
Sticky Web - y
Keldeo -
Knock Off - yyyy
Weavile - yyyyyyyy
Crawdaunt - yy
Jirachi - y
Hawlucha - y
Stealth Rock - yy
Scald - yyy
Kyurem - yyyyy
Gothitelle - yyyyyy
Toxic Spikes - y

So with that, Medichamite, Gardevoirite, Gothitelle, Weavile, and Diggersby are now BL. Hydreigon and Kyurem were barely spared at 5 votes a piece."

>someone actually voted for toxic spikes
>someone actually voted for hawlucha

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-uu-beta-discussion-read-post-32.3497124/page-39#post-5249927

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 12:10:39 No.18144700 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144619
The problem is that is is extremely difficult to objectively determine what makes a Pokemon more viable than another. One person's view on a Pokemon could differ violently from another's (look no further than /vp/ for that). With 718 Pokemon to go through, sitting down and ranking their viability is simply impossible.

Thus building tiers around usage, while far from ideal, is the best Smogon can work with. The logic is that people will tend to use what works. If it works, more people will use it. And so on.

Alternately, one could avoid the problem entirely and simply not play by Smogon's rules.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 12:10:43 No.18144701 Report

Quoted By: >>18145171 >>18147752

>>18144085
>gothitelle

they really don't like shadow tag do they?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 12:30:56 No.18144834 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144698
>no votes for keldeo

Kerbs (Bresk) 3695-0018-6282 [Pachirisu Stunfisk Galvantula]

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO le titanic face.png, 712KiB, 700x548

Kerbs (Bresk) 3695-0018-6282 [Pachirisu Stunfisk Galvantula] Wed 19 Feb 2014 12:36:01 No.18144868 Report

Quoted By: >>18145078

>2014
>using smogon tiers

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 12:53:07 No.18144957 Report

Quoted By:

bamp

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:12:53 No.18145078 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144868
that bergmite is fucking scary

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:15:52 No.18145103 Report

Quoted By: >>18145187

>UU (beta)
Hopefully the official tier wont be a mess.

>who's next
Keldeo or Latias probably. What the fuck are they doing there.
I ifnd kinda amusing how they're banning all the hard hitters but no walls. Shit like Chansey and Florges are just everywhere and there are less things that can break through them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:23:36 No.18145156 Report

Quoted By:

>Weavile
>BL

Good night, sweet prince.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:24:15 No.18145158 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144220
>there are still people like this who have no idea what "outclassed" means

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:26:16 No.18145171 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144701
gothitelle is horrifying

(IGN Cass) 2766 9670 4652 FS (Slugma, Ponyta, Fletchinder)

(IGN Cass) 2766 9670 4652 FS (Slugma, Ponyta, Fletchinder) Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:27:40 No.18145186 Report

Quoted By: >>18145217

I thought gardevoir was a shitmon. Why did gardevoirite get banned?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:27:44 No.18145187 Report

Quoted By:

>>18145103
>Latias

Yeah, I've never gotten that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:30:49 No.18145217 Report

Quoted By: >>18145298

>>18145186
hyper voice rekt everything that didn't resist it

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:34:58 No.18145263 Report

Quoted By: >>18145325

>>18144569
This issue could be completely eliminated if they, say, made it so every single usage stat under 1600 so that you actually had to be good at the game for your usage to count.

Of course, they're not going to do that because baddies would bitch "Smogon oppressors" or some bullshit.

(IGN Cass) 2766 9670 4652 FS (Slugma, Ponyta, Fletchinder)

(IGN Cass) 2766 9670 4652 FS (Slugma, Ponyta, Fletchinder) Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:38:03 No.18145298 Report

Quoted By:

>>18145217
Ah. Poor Gardevoir. Always remaining a shitmon. Still one of my faves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 13:41:17 No.18145325 Report

Quoted By: >>18147672

>>18145263
I don't think that's the reason. They used to make tiers based on 1850s stats. I think it was because of an incident that one dude had trouble with a poke in a tier so he spammed it in the tier above and got it banned, so they started using weighed stats for tiering.
I don't know why they're not doing that now. Probably because of the change of ladder system and stuff, but they should do ASAP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 16:54:13 No.18147333 Report

Quoted By: >>18147371

>>18144262

Staraptor + Talonflame is a good offensive core.

They handle each other's counters

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 16:57:05 No.18147371 Report

Quoted By: >>18147554

>>18147333
Mega-Manectric, Zapdos, Rhyperior, the list of things that shit all over both of them goes on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 16:57:39 No.18147378 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144085
Most of those I can understand why but
>scolipede
>weavile
>staraptor
>diggersby (I fucking hate it, but it isn't THAT good)
I'm surprised gothitelle is on there. Is Tornadus-T banned yet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:00:14 No.18147420 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144698
fucking how? Keldeo rapes UU, he needs to be banned asap imo

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:03:34 No.18147483 Report

Quoted By: >>18147535

Kyurem-Black was UU? Wait wait wait, back the funbus up. Are you telling me that Smogon considered Donphan better than Kyurem-Black?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:05:44 No.18147528 Report

Quoted By: >>18147551 >>18147605 >>18147700

Why was Weavile banned? Dude has a 4x weakness to fighting and a SR weakness. You could know absolutely nothing about pokemon competitvely and you'd probably still be able to manhandle weavile. I'm not saying he's worthless, but wow

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:06:15 No.18147535 Report

Quoted By: >>18147567

>>18147483
tiers are based on usage silly

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:07:02 No.18147551 Report

Quoted By:

>>18147528
Probably baton pass teams and hitting too hard. Age of stall when?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:07:05 No.18147554 Report

Quoted By: >>18147578

>>18147371
Not disagreeing, but Zapdos gets one-shot by Jolly Life Orb Reckless Double Edge from Staraptor, and has a chance of being killed by Adamant Scarf.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:07:46 No.18147567 Report

Quoted By: >>18147579 >>18147804

>>18147535
Tiers are based on "usage." Charizard was NU in Gen 5 but you'd still run into it over and over again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:08:29 No.18147578 Report

Quoted By:

>>18147554
Zapdos outspeeds non-scarfed variants and nobody uses Adamant Scarf.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:08:33 No.18147579 Report

Quoted By:

>>18147567
you need over 3.41% usage in a tier to rise to that tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:09:55 No.18147605 Report

Quoted By:

>>18147528
dat knock off
dat icicle crash

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:10:09 No.18147614 Report

Quoted By:

I thought Smogon stopped this shit in Gen IV. If you try to make UU exactly the same as it was the previous generation, you're going to have 50 Pokemon in BL.

>but muh viability rankings!

Maybe they should try to understand why Kyurem-B and Diggersby are UU instead of assuming that they're right and the 100,000 Showdown users are wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:12:23 No.18147672 Report

Quoted By:

>>18145325

>. I think it was because of an incident that one dude had trouble with a poke in a tier so he spammed it in the tier above and got it banned

Yeah. It was an incident over a year ago where a single user spammed DeepSeaScale Amoonguss and Sticky Barb Emboar until they crossed the RU usage threshold.

The best part is that they still stayed in RU afterwards, proving that people will use OU (or RU in this case) Pokemon solely because they're in OU.

Pory-goon !cWl9wC/NZo

Pory-goon !cWl9wC/NZo Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:13:04 No.18147688 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144641
Porygon Z almost sailed into Ubers back in Gen IV due to the quick setup on Blisseys. Then it came crashing to BL afterwards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:13:17 No.18147692 Report

Quoted By:

I always find it baffling how something with 700BST is UU

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:13:37 No.18147700 Report

Quoted By:

>>18147528
>4x weakness to fighting
Oh man it's almost as if GF didn't just create a new type that curbstomps fighting
>SR weakness
Rev up that defog

Also it got a pretty significant movepool buff, even if it can't use both Knock Off and Icicle Crash in the same set

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:16:35 No.18147750 Report

Quoted By:

As far as offensive cores in OU, how would Excadrill and Latios pair together? Latios resists all of Excadrill's weaknesses and has an immunity to EQ.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:16:46 No.18147752 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144701

I got trapped in a stall war by a Gothitelle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:20:01 No.18147804 Report

Quoted By: >>18148128

>>18147567
They factor in rank in usage. Also they have conditional usage statistics, which is a funny way to say that everyone that used Red's team was not counted because that's a joke team.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:23:14 No.18147854 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144377
Because tiers are defined by usage. BL is UU's Ubers. That's just how it works, nig nog.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:44:13 No.18148128 Report

Quoted By: >>18148421

>>18147804
>Also they have conditional usage statistics, which is a funny way to say that everyone that used Red's team was not counted because that's a joke team

Not currently.

The current stats aren't weighted, so bad players/joke teams do have an effect on the tiers.

Hopefully they get the weighted stats back soon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 17:56:48 No.18148280 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144569
BL doesn't even mean anything, you retard.

BL simply means they can't be used in UU and below. No one and NOTHING is stopping you from using it in OU at all. I'd rather have a bunch of things banned from UU than have the tier transformed into something it's not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 18:01:33 No.18148367 Report

Quoted By:

>mfw Latias and jirachi are ran on every uu team

>mfw i have no face

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 18:02:47 No.18148385 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144698
>Knock Off - yyyy
>muh eviolite

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 18:04:55 No.18148421 Report

Quoted By:

>>18148128
Well he was talking about gen 5 Charizard in his post, but yeah usage isn't currently being weighted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 18:25:34 No.18148697 Report

Quoted By: >>18148738

>>18144569
I like this comment and I really agree with you for RIGHT NOW. This is kinda bullshit. But I do think that the metagame will balance itself out once people get over using the shiny new toys. Already I've been seeing increasing numbers of Kyurem-B and Thundurus (both formes). I think once this happens the tier will be back to normal again and dumb shit won't need to be banned from UU.

I think why Smogon makes tiers based on usage rather than "actual viability" is because who is judging the actual viability? Usage almost always (in the endgame, not right now when the meta is so young) reflects actual viability. We both know that if tiers were based off the Council's opinions of actual viability people would go apeshit. They already freak out when obviously broken (Mega Lucario) things are banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 18:29:44 No.18148738 Report

Quoted By: >>18148748

>>18148697
>I think why Smogon makes tiers based on usage rather than "actual viability" is because who is judging the actual viability?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-viability-ranking-thread-s-and-a-rank-pokemon-discussion.3495992/

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 18:30:50 No.18148748 Report

Quoted By:

>>18148738
read the next couple sentences
>We both know that if tiers were based off the Council's opinions of actual viability people would go apeshit. They already freak out when obviously broken (Mega Lucario) things are banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 18:36:00 No.18148796 Report

Quoted By:

>>18144631
It's like gen3 all over again.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 18:44:16 No.18148925 Report

Quoted By: >>18148956

>>18144631
I don't get why it doesn't become its own tier either.
Too strong for UU? might as well stick in BL
Not enough usage or good enough for OU? move it down a tier into BL where it can't go into UU but can still be used in OU without being in it officially.
Unless someone can explain the reasoning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 18:47:27 No.18148956 Report

Quoted By:

>>18148925
because it's basically UU with banned pokemons

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 19 Feb 2014 18:50:58 No.18148989 Report

Quoted By:

>Caring about what a bunch of autists tell you to play.
git gud.

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