/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #18698342

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Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:08:36 No.18698342 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>18698349 >>18698494 >>18698526 >>18698533 >>18699023 >>18701109 >>18704928 >>18714816

How do we improve that type, guys?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:10:00 No.18698349 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698342
reverse weaknesses with resistances

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:10:06 No.18698350 Report

Quoted By:

By not trying to make it bulky.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:21:27 No.18698388 Report

Quoted By: >>18698417 >>18698440 >>18708792

By adding more fucking resistances first, and by adding a move similar to Dark Void with 70% or 75% chance of freezing the opponent

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:28:27 No.18698417 Report

Quoted By: >>18698428 >>18717044

>>18698388
This. Ice needs to resist something other than fucking ice so it actually has shit it can switch in against or take a hit against.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:31:05 No.18698428 Report

Quoted By: >>18698521 >>18700785

>>18698417
Grass and water would be the most obvious things. Maybe Dragon as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:31:54 No.18698434 Report

Quoted By:

Make Ice type immune to Dragon type moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:32:16 No.18698438 Report

Quoted By:

> Should be super effective against Water

> Don't give it so many weaknesses

That's the only thing I can think of.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:32:41 No.18698440 Report

Quoted By: >>18708792

>>18698388
resistance of ground
Water immunity
ice resistance

here we go

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:33:10 No.18698442 Report

Quoted By: >>18698484 >>18714006

Remove Rock weakness, It doesn't make any sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:35:13 No.18698448 Report

Quoted By:

Give it a few extra resistances. Make hail raise defense or special defense or evasion or something, make hail give ice types a higher chance to freeze the opponent when using ice type attacks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:39:03 No.18698471 Report

Quoted By:

Resistance to ground, ghost and water.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:40:39 No.18698484 Report

Quoted By: >>18698497

>>18698442
Have you ever thrown a rock at ice?
Of course it makes sense that ice is weak to rock.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:42:46 No.18698494 Report

Quoted By: >>18708792 >>18717535

>>18698342
1. Hail now reduces super effective damage against Ice types by 25%

2. New move, Flurry:
65 BP, 95% accuracy
Inflicts damage and induces hail for 5 turns

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:43:12 No.18698497 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698484

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:48:33 No.18698516 Report

Quoted By:

Resistant to Ground, Dragon and Water.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:49:35 No.18698521 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698428

>Wanting to add another type that resists Grass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:50:13 No.18698526 Report

Quoted By: >>18698545

>>18698342
Resists Steel

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:50:44 No.18698528 Report

Quoted By: >>18708792

>Make Hail increase both defenses for Ice types
>Make Ice SE against water
>Make it resist Ground and Water

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:51:34 No.18698533 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698342
New non-volatile status condition:

Frostbite -
If target pokemon is not ice type, it gets it's special attack halved and receives 1/8 max hp damage per turn

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:53:29 No.18698543 Report

Quoted By:

needs moar resists, less weaknesses and more signature moves

freeze dry was a good start. now give it a will-o-wisp like move with 75% acc to freeze the target. and make frozen targets 50% chance to defrost upon taking direct damage to make it not so op

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:53:41 No.18698545 Report

Quoted By: >>18698605

>>18698526

Steel is a shitty offensive type already, doesn't need to be worse

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:53:48 No.18698547 Report

Quoted By: >>18698560

All of you just need to let it go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:55:46 No.18698560 Report

Quoted By: >>18698563

>>18698547
I can't hold it back anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 12:56:55 No.18698563 Report

Quoted By: >>18701138

>>18698560
Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the 3DS

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 13:13:29 No.18698605 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698545
It would mean Dragons would have to carry either something else for Ice or Steel for Fairies, instead of Steel for both.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 13:30:09 No.18698680 Report

Quoted By:

Every Ice move has an increased chance to freeze the enemy (just slightly) but only Ice type can freeze using ice moves (tri attack has the same percentage as always and can always freeze unless it's used on an ice type, refrigerate adds a small chance to freeze along with the ice type, but still less than other ice moves)
Ice now resists water and ground
Ice is now immune to sound attack except boomburst
Hail gives a little speed boost (x1.1)to every ice type pokémon and reduces (x1.3) the defense of Rock/Ground and Steel type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 13:32:49 No.18698691 Report

Quoted By:

also, while they don't have many resistances, it wouldn't make a difference adding new ones, since most ice types are either frail specially, physically or both. Just boost their attack capabilities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 13:42:25 No.18698730 Report

Quoted By: >>18698788

>Ice is now neutral against Grass
>Ice is now SE against Water
>Ice is now NVE to Bug

>Ice now resists Water and Ground

>Hail now ups the physical defense of ice types by 50%

>Freeze dry (since it has lost its only use with Ice now being SE to Water) has a 30% to freeze. (still only a few mons get it, so it's not as OP as it sounds)

There I fixed the Ice type, while also buffing Grass and Bug.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 13:53:37 No.18698788 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698730
>Ice is now neutral against Grass
>Ice is now SE against Water
haha fuck you water types

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 14:36:37 No.18699023 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698342
>How do we improve that type, guys?
More powerful and reliable physical Ice-type attacks. Right now, Icicle Crash, Ice Punch and Avalanche are the best there is. Icicle Crash doesn't have perfect accuracy and Avalanche is only worth using on slow, bulky things like Avalugg.

Hail boosts the Defense stat of Ice-types by 50%, like how Sandstorm boost the Sp. Defense of Rock-types.

Ice-type Pokemon now resist Dragon-type attacks.

Good enough.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:20:17 No.18700752 Report

Quoted By: >>18700800 >>18700830

>all these people wanting resistances

Ice is supposed to be a glass cannon type like Fire. Why Nintendo keeps trying to make bulky Ice types is beyond me. More than anything, the Ice type needs strong, accurate moves with better chances of freezing, and Pokemon with more speed and offensive power. Maybe they should make Ice super effective against more types (definitely Water, but maybe Fighting as well).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:21:30 No.18700764 Report

Quoted By:

Make it the best offensive type in the game. Oh wait, it already is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:23:34 No.18700785 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698428
It shouldn't resist grass. They shouldn't make mediocre types better by nerfing other mediocre types. Water I agree with

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:24:55 No.18700800 Report

Quoted By: >>18700874

>>18700752
>better chances of freezing
fuck yourself with a stick

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:26:32 No.18700815 Report

Quoted By: >>18700855 >>18700857

seriously faggots? water melts ice irl. why the fuck would ice resist it ingame?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:27:01 No.18700821 Report

Quoted By: >>18700925 >>18700935 >>18700964

How about stealth ice?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:27:47 No.18700830 Report

Quoted By:

>>18700752

>fire
>"glass cannon"

except fire type has the second most resistances in the game. it's also immune to burn.

ice needs to be resistant to dragon and water. there, done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:29:29 No.18700855 Report

Quoted By: >>18700884

>>18700815

water doesn't melt ice, temperature melts ice. unless the water raises the temperature enough, it won't melt. if it's cold, the water will just freeze creating thicker ice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:29:35 No.18700857 Report

Quoted By: >>18701339

>>18700815
Rocks splash water irl, but rock still get hits for super effective by water.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:31:15 No.18700874 Report

Quoted By: >>18700940

>>18700800
No Ice-type move has better than a 10% chance of freezing. Every other status condition has at least one move that always inflicts its status.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:32:02 No.18700884 Report

Quoted By: >>18700891 >>18700912

>>18700855
actually you have it backwards. temperature freezes water.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:32:42 No.18700891 Report

Quoted By:

>>18700884

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:34:42 No.18700909 Report

Quoted By: >>18700951

Ice need to be SE on metal. Temperature can kill it be it low or high.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:34:54 No.18700912 Report

Quoted By:

>>18700884

yes that's what i'm saying, if it rains on ice and it gets colder outside, the water will freeze before the ice has a chance to melt. with pokelogic you could say the ice type cools everything around it making water less effective.

scald could deal normal damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:36:00 No.18700924 Report

Quoted By:

>Fairy is now weak to Ice
>Give Freeze-Dry to lots more Ice types
>Put in some powerful Ice-type sweepers with Levitate or other abilities that negate the massive amounts of weaknesses
>Add 5%-10% Freeze chance on many Ice attacks ONLY when used by an Ice type

Ice is now the gambler's type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:36:02 No.18700925 Report

Quoted By: >>18701199

>>18700821
>Stealth Ice+Stealth Rock
>Rip Bug Type

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:37:02 No.18700935 Report

Quoted By:

>>18700821
>HAHA FUCK U GARCHOMP

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:37:24 No.18700940 Report

Quoted By: >>18700976 >>18700987

>>18700874
freeze is also absurdly overpowered which is why it's got such a low probability of occurring

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:37:27 No.18700941 Report

Quoted By: >>18701097

Better question how to fix psychic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:38:02 No.18700951 Report

Quoted By: >>18700977

>>18700909

no, it can't, cold reinforces metal, heat makes it break down. it's just that cooling metal before heating is causes a more drastic change in temperature rapidly, making it break down easier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:38:49 No.18700964 Report

Quoted By: >>18700999 >>18701199

>>18700821
>Steath rock+ice
Goodbye mega Pinsir and Charizard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:39:37 No.18700976 Report

Quoted By: >>18700995

>>18700940
It's not overpowered, it's just annoying. It isn't common enough to be a threat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:39:41 No.18700977 Report

Quoted By:

>>18700951

or wait, shit, i have that backwards. heating metal causes it to become less dense, then rapidly freezing it causes the molecules to retain a more separated structure, making it more brittle.

either way, heat breaks down metal, not cold.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:40:31 No.18700987 Report

Quoted By: >>18700995

>>18700940
>freeze overpowered
>poor man sleep
>X frozen solid
>X thawed out at the same turn

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:41:20 No.18700995 Report

Quoted By: >>18701034

>>18700976
freeze itself as a status is overpowered, there's no reliable way to break it and no way even to guarantee it'll ever break barring certain fire type moves

>>18700987
freezing is honestly better than sleeping there's just nothing that inflicts it except as a secondary effect thank god

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:41:42 No.18700999 Report

Quoted By: >>18701048 >>18714282

>>18700964
And this is a bad thing because...?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:43:28 No.18701034 Report

Quoted By: >>18701062 >>18701148

>>18700995
> there's no reliable way to break it
> what is Flame Wheel, Sacred Fire, Flare Blitz, Fusion Flare, and Scald

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:43:56 No.18701039 Report

Quoted By: >>18701065 >>18701068

how do fix dark typing? lost a offensive target and gained a weakness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:43:58 No.18701040 Report

Quoted By:

>Sneaky Icicles becomes a thing
>Every final Bug evo gets a Mega to compensate

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:44:32 No.18701048 Report

Quoted By: >>18714282 >>18714339

>>18700999
Because Charizard is classic OU pokemon who deserved to be part of metagame

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:45:30 No.18701062 Report

Quoted By: >>18701080

>>18701034
I mentioned those.

Except for scald they're moves with limited distribution, so hopefully your physical fire type or balky water type are what's getting frozen consistently.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:45:42 No.18701065 Report

Quoted By:

>>18701039
It's alright. You can kill steel with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:45:56 No.18701068 Report

Quoted By:

>>18701039
dark a shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:46:57 No.18701074 Report

Quoted By:

Replace freeze with a status effect that acts like paralysis, but lowers defense. Make this new stat as common as paralysis. At worst we get more stallers, at best we actually see another stat in battle

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:47:24 No.18701080 Report

Quoted By: >>18701101

>>18701062
And you can prevent sleep with? With nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:48:47 No.18701097 Report

Quoted By:

>>18700941
Play Gen 1.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:48:54 No.18701101 Report

Quoted By:

>>18701080
Vital spirit, insomnia, sleep talk which has basically ubiquitous distribution, the fact that waking up is a guarantee after enough time. Even with all that taken into consideration, sleep clause exists on smogon singles.

Believe me sleep is pretty stupid broken too. Freeze is just worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:49:29 No.18701109 Report

Quoted By: >>18701172

>>18698342
Should be resistant to at least grass, bug, flying and normal.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:51:29 No.18701138 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698563
I don't care
what they're going to say

Let the storm rage on.
Smogon never bothered me anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:52:25 No.18701148 Report

Quoted By: >>18701204

>>18701034
And if you don't have any of those, have fun hoping the dice are in your favor with the 20% chance of thawing every turn. If not, you might as well be down a team slot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:54:04 No.18701165 Report

Quoted By:

Ice doesnt really need to be super effective to anything else. It already has Grass, Ground, Flying, Dragon. However it should resist Dragon and Flying in the least.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:54:37 No.18701172 Report

Quoted By: >>18705489

>>18701109

yes, because bug and grass need to be even shittier

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:57:17 No.18701199 Report

Quoted By:

>>18700925
>Bug
>>18700964
>Charizard
Those are neutral to ice. Learn your type matchups, fags.

You know who'd be fucked by Rocks + Ice? Flying Dragons and Bugs (because of the Rock part), Jumpluff and Tropius

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 18:57:36 No.18701204 Report

Quoted By: >>18701246 >>18701248

>>18701148
If you have an Ice type, have fun hoping the dice are in your favor with the 10% chance of actually freezing every turn. If not, you might as well be down a move slot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 19:01:38 No.18701246 Report

Quoted By: >>18701283

>>18701204
your comparison would work, idiot, if ice type moves weren't powerful anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 19:01:50 No.18701248 Report

Quoted By:

>>18701204
I was speaking in the context of having a guaranteed freezing move.

But if you have a move with a 10% chance of freezing, you still have a move that does damage with freezing simply as a secondary effect. It wouldn't be putting you out of a move slot at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 19:04:58 No.18701283 Report

Quoted By:

>>18701246
What, like Ice Beam (relatively solid), Icicle Crash (only useable by 4 Pokemon), and Miss-ter Blizzard?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 19:06:00 No.18701299 Report

Quoted By: >>18717371

resists normal, flying, water, electric, bug, and dragon

neutral vs rock

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 19:07:32 No.18701315 Report

Quoted By:

Removing steel's resistance to ice would be a start

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 19:09:24 No.18701339 Report

Quoted By: >>18701367

>>18700857
Water erodes the rocks you dense fucker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 19:12:55 No.18701367 Report

Quoted By: >>18701403 >>18701409

>>18701339
Over a long peroid of time.
Little quick splashes and blasts wouldn't do much of shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 19:16:07 No.18701403 Report

Quoted By:

>>18701367
Yeah, and a bird flying into a tree won't kill the tree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 19:16:48 No.18701409 Report

Quoted By:

>>18701367
The composition of the soil is not the same on every part of the earth, so one would assume not all the rock/ground types are composed the same either.

And while we're on it make Water be SE against Steel as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Mar 2014 19:19:04 No.18701427 Report

Quoted By:

Make more Ice glass cannons.

Weaknesses won't mean much with high speed, high attack and low defense.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 00:23:42 No.18704928 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698342
I agree with most of these suggestions. Ice definitely needs more resists, since atm ice is such a shit type defensively that many players just slap ice beam on a water type.
>add water, ground, and possibly dragon resists
Not grass because grass is already a shitty type
>ice loses its fighting weakness
This wouldn't unbalance either of them since ice would still have 3 weaknesses and fighting would still be SE against 4 types
>add an ice type entry hazard
It would be an ice-type version of spikes, because having a floating entry hazard would be death to flying types if stealth rock is already up as well.
>make freeze a more threatening status
Keep in mind that there are 2 whole abilities that prevent freezing.
>rapid spin + refrigerate
Either Cryogonal gets refrigerate as its HA, or Auruous gets rapid spin as a tutor move to prevent spinblocking

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 01:00:20 No.18705276 Report

Quoted By: >>18705461

Chance to freeze Water-type Pokèmon with Ice-type moves that already have a chance to do so are doubled. Hope you guys realize that focusing on improving their defensive capacities is pointless. But if it can help Cryogenesis, either Ability (still limited to few selected Ice-types) or move, works like Rest but while the Pokemon is asleep it does also heal 1/8 of the user's max HP. While about the stats boosted during Hail, beside Evasion one with Snow Cloak, Sp.Def could have a boost to like Sandstorm does with Rock types, or thinking in opposite, Hail slowers all non Ice-type Pokémon while on the field.

Other few things, Kyurem drops Pressure either for Snow Warning or Mold Breaker, learns fucking Ice Punch, Icicle Spear and Ice Shard, it did even use it in BW2 when attacked the main character...aaand Glaciate is 80BP gifted with either slowering the opposite Pokémon by -2 stages or having a 30% chance to freeze or both like a signature move that can be compared with Scald, Lava Plume and Discharge.

I mean...even an Ice field effect move is okay at this point...at least in-game...

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 01:14:24 No.18705461 Report

Quoted By:

>>18705276
Also, Ice-types in general need a bigger movepool, things like Dazzling Gleam should me more common among Electric, Ice and Fire Pokémon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 01:16:41 No.18705489 Report

Quoted By: >>18705789

>>18701172
It just makes sense. Bugs and plants usually can't do shit in cold environments.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 01:19:16 No.18705513 Report

Quoted By: >>18706142

Honestly, Gamefreak should just delete Ice all together. All the remaining Ice types could just be made Water or Normal types. Heck, they could even remove the type all together from certain dual types.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 01:30:41 No.18705642 Report

Quoted By:

Consider the following:

ICE
RESISTS
FAIRY

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 01:40:25 No.18705789 Report

Quoted By: >>18705948 >>18706142

>>18705489
Bugs can't do shit against any of the types in real life

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 01:53:28 No.18705948 Report

Quoted By:

>>18705789
That's why they're ineffective against a fuckton of types. They're weak against stuff they need to be weak against. (Except fairy, one would think mantises and other predatory insects would just munch on the damn things, but no).
Dark and psychic have always been ambiguous as fuck, at least regarding what they're strong and weak against, so I guess they just saw that as a chance to make bug types slightly more useful without a huge amount of nonsense.
As to grass types
>what are locust swarms.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 02:10:22 No.18706142 Report

Quoted By: >>18706237

Resistance to Grass (duh), bug (duh), poison (same reasoning as ground and steel), and fairy (same reasoning as steel)
no weaknesses removed, this makes up 5 resistances to types that are more or less common offensively
Hail recovers 1/8th health to ice types and increases special defense
In terms of individual buffs
Technician Weavile
Mega Froslass (70/50/110/120/110/120)
Mega Glalie (80/100/100/100/100/100)
Delibird evolution
Jynx evolution
Mega Kanto legendary birds (only listing articuno because relevant 90/85/150/100/150/95)
Mega Vanilluxe (71/85/110/200/110/59)

>>18705513
>fantasy game with element-based creatures and attacks
>no obligatory ice type but three types for earthy shit, a dragon type, a bug type, and a fairy type
Get out

>>18705789
Bugs sometimes eat grass
People who are afraid of bugs can't think straight around them. (psychic)
can't explain dark (to be clear, irl Dark type isn't a shadow, dark is an asshole)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 02:18:54 No.18706237 Report

Quoted By: >>18706272

>>18706142
200 Base SpA, 59 Speed. Welcome to every trick room team ever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 02:21:37 No.18706272 Report

Quoted By: >>18706388

>>18706237
Trick Room is actually pretty underpowered compared to most other "weather" conditions.
All it needs is either a poke that can cause perma trick room or a damp stone equivalent

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 02:32:56 No.18706388 Report

Quoted By:

>>18706272
It's my favorite gimmick right now, but I agree it does need a held Item. Everytime I send out my sweeper they just protect/wish stall me out, wasting my trick room turns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 07:34:50 No.18708792 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698388
>>18698440
>>18698494
>>18698528

These things.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 21:44:34 No.18713878 Report

Quoted By: >>18714574 >>18714798 >>18717402

I don't like a lot of these ideas.

Ice does not need to be stronger offensively, it's already in the top 5 offensive typings. Any suggestion for making anything else weak to Ice is a horrible idea.

They gave us Freeze Dry. It's a stupidly good attack. Just give it to more Ice-types.

Defensively, adding resistances to lots of random stuff is horrible. Grass and Bug are already the two worst offensive typings, do we really need to make them worse? No.

Ice and Water resisting each other would be healthiest for the metagame, but doesn't make a lot of sense. The relationship between Ice and Water is entirely dependant on the environment and is not a static relationship, unless you live in an environment that is always cold or never cold. If anything, Ice and Water ought to be neutral to one another.

Ice resisting Dragon would have been top on my list, if Fairy hadn't come along. Now I'm not as sure. Further nerfing Dragon isn't all that necessary. Ice resisting Dragon would be a huge boon to Ice, but Dragons would suffer. Also consider that this change to ice would be coming in gen 7, at which point we will get at least 1 new Fairy Pokemon and a couple new Fairy attacks, as well. Stylistically, it has meric, however. Reptiles are weakest to cold temperatures. A creature that drops the temperature around it would weaken the blows of said reptile.

I'm not a big fan of the Rock weakness, but most rock is denser than ice of a comparable mass, so it does make some sense.

Ice resisting Ground sounds like a great idea for balance. Not sure how it makes shit for sense flavor-wise, however. I wouldn't cry if it happened, but how can you even try to explain that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 21:48:13 No.18713917 Report

Quoted By: >>18713985 >>18714009

Resistant to flying attacks
Resistant to grass attacks
Immune to ice attacks

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 21:54:02 No.18713985 Report

Quoted By:

>>18713917
Ice immune to Ice is a really bizarre concept, but I think you could justify that. Though, it does seem kinda unnecessary in most cases.

You should feel bad for trying to make Grass worse, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 21:57:00 No.18714006 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698442
Ever been on a glacier? There's a shitload of silt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 21:57:53 No.18714009 Report

Quoted By:

>>18713917
Instead of making Ice immune to Ice itself, they could just make an Ice-type "Flash Fire" ability. Because if all Ice-types are immune to cold, all Fire-types ought to be immune to heat, as well.

But no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:02:03 No.18714059 Report

Quoted By: >>18714148 >>18714150

Resist grass, water, ground, and give freeze-dry to more mons. Grass can't grow on ice, water doesn't do much to harm it, and I haven't seen a glacier do anything but plow through mountains.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:10:34 No.18714148 Report

Quoted By: >>18714276

>>18714059
Because we urgently need to nerf grass, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:10:59 No.18714150 Report

Quoted By: >>18714243

>>18714059
You just listed an offensive characteristic of Ice (plows through mountains) as a defensive characteristic (Ice resists Ground).

An earthquake or sink hole would effect a glacier just fine. Also, there are only two Ice Pokemon that are bighugeverylarge hunks of ice: Regice and Avalugg. The rest of the Ice-types are mostly animals that live in cold regions, or are small hunks of ice hardly comparable to a glacier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:20:33 No.18714243 Report

Quoted By:

>>18714150
To be fair, most of the Ground moves that aren't Earthquake or copies of it would probably be pretty ineffective against the "hunk of ice" Pokemon. But therein lies another problem: Ground doesn't have a consistent enough representation in Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:25:18 No.18714276 Report

Quoted By:

>>18714148

Yes. Grass sucks: you suck.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:25:55 No.18714282 Report

Quoted By:

>>18701048
>>>18700999
>Because Charizard is classic OU pokemon who deserved to be part of metagame
>has never been OU until Gen VI

F/+I_S//h-y

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F/+I_S//h-y Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:32:24 No.18714337 Report

Quoted By: >>18714378 >>18714562 >>18714662

Rock isn't super effective on it and rock resists ice types
Fixed the chart by powering up grass types (more rock types are usable and less stab ice) and making rock less powerful offensively
Also, since sand storm gets a 30% or 50% boost to special defense then hail should boost the attacks and the defenses and speed of ice pokemon by 6% or 10% depending on what sandstorm's boost is
Also, deliburd/stantler and uxie get snow warning and amourus gets its hidden released
15 turn 1 time use items for weather (with or without 10% recoil upon using?)
Hail: Lakeffect
Sun: Fireworks/Solar Flare
Rain: Floodgate/Flash Flood
Sandstorm: Dynamite
Trick Room: Refractor (idk if this will work)

The safety goggles now prevent or halve crits/flinch rates

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:32:27 No.18714339 Report

Quoted By: >>18715062

>>18701048
>Because Charizard is classic OU pokemon who deserved to be part of metagame
>has never been OU until Gen VI

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:38:19 No.18714378 Report

Quoted By:

>>18714337
>hail should boost the attacks and the defenses and speed of ice pokemon by 6% or 10% depending on what sandstorm's boost is
>6% or 10% boost in speed
>Also, stantler and uxie get snow warning

I think this is a horrible idea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:52:08 No.18714506 Report

Quoted By:

Make hail increase the chance of freezing by 10%

Base 120 defences

Physical and special ice move with the base power of 120 with no disadvantages when used

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:57:03 No.18714562 Report

Quoted By:

>>18714337
Just give Ice types a one stage def boost in hail. Now, you have AV Ty as SOOPERSPECIALWALL and MObamasnow as SOOPERPHYSICALWALL.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 22:58:43 No.18714574 Report

Quoted By: >>18714603 >>18715202

>>18713878
How do you explain psychic and dark's weakness to bug
That's always confused me

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 23:02:26 No.18714603 Report

Quoted By:

>>18714574
Psychic is weak to Bug because people are afraid of bugs

F/+I_S//h-y

F/+I_S//h-y Tue 01 Apr 2014 23:09:09 No.18714662 Report

Quoted By:

>>18714337
Also: Aurora Beam's power is doubled in hail and it always lowers attack. Without hail, it has a 45% chance to lower attack
Pokemon with thick fat dont take hail damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 23:22:54 No.18714798 Report

Quoted By: >>18714844

>>18713878
>how can you even try to explain that?
/vp/ would think of a way. They have autistic explanations for even the most nonsensical of type matchups.

/vp/ could come with a reason why Fire is super effective against Water, as long as GF says it is

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 23:25:08 No.18714816 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698342
Resistance to Fairy, Dragon and Water.
There.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 23:27:55 No.18714844 Report

Quoted By:

>>18714798
W-WELL FIRE CAN MAKE WATER INTO STEAM!
Y-YEAH! GAME FREAK WOULD NEVER FUCK UP

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 23:45:42 No.18715062 Report

Quoted By:

>>18714339
The little kids metagame is probably 10 times more relevant than your shitty fansite metagames.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 23:51:35 No.18715147 Report

Quoted By: >>18715272

Ice revamped:

Resists: Ice, Water, Dragon, Flying
SE vs: Water, Dragon, Grass, Flying, Ground

Ice moves have an extra 15% chance to cause a freeze in Rain
New ice moves:
>Tundra.
Ice type terrain that reduces oppnents SpDef upon switching. (Counts as a terrain)
>Arctic Shard
Ice type Stealth Rock. Melted by Sunny Day, hail makes it last 8 turns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 23:55:06 No.18715202 Report

Quoted By:

>>18714574
Psychic is weak to Dark because of under handed tricks will always beat the smartest of people.
Psychic's weakness to Bug and Ghost is because they are common irrational fears the brain can;t control.

Dark being weak to Bug is similar, you can;t trick a hive mind and you can;t be more underhanded that scurrying little creepy crawlies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Apr 2014 23:59:53 No.18715260 Report

Quoted By: >>18716288 >>18716962

Stop making defensive and slow ice types.

>avalugg

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 00:00:38 No.18715272 Report

Quoted By:

>>18715147
>new damage-dealing entry hazards
>boost to freeze in RAIN

You make me angry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 00:06:53 No.18715353 Report

Quoted By:

Limit distribution of ice type moves so that you'd actually need some ice types around to use those moves, instead of just letting every water type learn Ice Beam

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 00:13:46 No.18715433 Report

Quoted By:

>Ice attacks used against fire types will melt, turning into a water attack with loss of stab if applicable

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 01:31:26 No.18716288 Report

Quoted By: >>18716935 >>18717117

>>18715260

Aninymouse !guyK6p/mWE

Aninymouse !guyK6p/mWE Wed 02 Apr 2014 02:41:24 No.18716935 Report

Quoted By:

>>18716288
Exactly. Avalugg is no freakin' joke.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 02:44:15 No.18716962 Report

Quoted By: >>18717026 >>18717117

>>18715260
Would Avalaugg be uber if he was steel type?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 02:52:19 No.18717026 Report

Quoted By:

>>18716962
He's got all the tools a physically defensive mon needs so the typing works as a balancing factor.
And he's proof that in order to make defensive ice-types functional you have to inflate their stats and leave them as pure ice as every secondary typing just adds more chinks into their armor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 02:54:22 No.18717044 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698417

ice immune to flying would make the current meta somewhat interesting at least.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:04:09 No.18717117 Report

Quoted By: >>18717179

>>18716962
Mono-steel isn't even that great, defensively. He'd be a lot better though.

>>18716288
Yeah, and? He still sucks. Cresselia has 120/120/130 bulk and was BL2 last gen, you need more than stupid high bulk to be good.

It seems to me they wanted to make an ice type Hippowdon and mostly failed because 1). Mono-ice is really, really shitty, 2). He doesn't have Hippo's special bulk.

Really, just make him Ice/Water or Ice/Ground and raise his SpD by 50 and he'd be great. But nah.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:09:59 No.18717179 Report

Quoted By: >>18717202 >>18717226 >>18717234

>>18717117
>10 resistances and 1 immunity
>Not great
I'm a bit of a noob at pokemon, but...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:13:21 No.18717202 Report

Quoted By:

>>18717179
Being weak to Fire, EQ and Fightning, Water and not resisting Knock Off and Shadow Ball makes all those resistances pointless and worthless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:16:50 No.18717226 Report

Quoted By:

>>18717179
It's weak to 3 extremely common offensive types, Fire, Fighting, and Ground. It also lacks resistances to Water and Dark, the former being very common offensively and the latter being Knock-off.
It's not your fault you didn't know that

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:17:40 No.18717234 Report

Quoted By: >>18717283

>>18717179
And three weaknesses which nearly every physical attacker carries specifically because steel is such a good typing. Yeah steel has a lot of resistances, but some of them are rare attack types like steel, poison, grass, normal, and psychic. Honestly Fairy is better, with a super important resistance to Dark and two relatively uncommon weaknesses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:25:21 No.18717283 Report

Quoted By: >>18717332 >>18717389

>>18717234
Doesn't that still show that steel type in and of itself is over-centralizing if it pushed fire/fighting/ground into almost omnipresent attacking types and rarer attack types into obscurity?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:32:19 No.18717332 Report

Quoted By: >>18717380

>>18717283
Alright, including the line "specifically because steel is such a good typing" was a mistake on my part. It's mostly just because earthquake is such a good, high powered and highly distributed move that has great coverage. There's also Close Combat and Superpower which are also high powered, well distributed and have good coverage.

So it's not really a case of steel being so good people adapted to it, but more like steel being weak to common coverage moves that makes it not actually all that good when not in a dual typing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:36:59 No.18717371 Report

Quoted By:

>>18701299
>resists bug
go kill yourself

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:38:29 No.18717380 Report

Quoted By:

>>18717332
Seems like fairy type is a timebomb given it's got no weakness that's particularly crippling. The fairy pokemon themselves aren't massively threatening due to less than stellar movepools and stats, but I did notice that every pokemon that received fairy typing in gen 6 was buffed significantly.

Makes me wonder if a pseudo-legendary fairy type would find itself in ubers very quickly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:39:05 No.18717389 Report

Quoted By:

>>18717283
Fighting and Ground both hit 5 types for SE damage. On that principle alone, they are extremely useful offensive types. Also, take into account that everything gets Earthquake, and most things get at least one Fighting-type attack.

Even if Steel wasn't a powerful and popular defensive type, Fighting and Ground would still see a lot of use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:40:42 No.18717402 Report

Quoted By: >>18717436

>>18713878
>Ice resisting Dragon would be a huge boon to Ice, but Dragons would suffer.
Dragons still have their bloated stats to coast on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:44:41 No.18717436 Report

Quoted By:

>>18717402
Only way to bring dragons down to size properly is to either make them pay for their very high stats by flat out removing all their resistances (or at least removing the grass resistance given grass could use a buff) or simply reduce their stats next generation. Fairy type did provide an additional obstacle but they still seem like the dominant type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 03:56:29 No.18717535 Report

Quoted By:

>>18698494
Seems slightly op. Perhaps slightly lowering its accuracy or base power by 5, or having a low pp?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 02 Apr 2014 05:20:07 No.18718199 Report

Quoted By:

Have it resist fairy or dragon type

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