/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #18805500

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161KiB, 662x697, greninja_by_xous54-d6p0l47.png

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 12:58:37 No.18805500 View View Reply Original Report

Hi /vp/
I need some help trying to decide.
I have two Greninjas, one is Jolly one, fully EV trained in SpA and Spee and the oner is a Timid one, trained in Atk and Spee, basically a PHY attacker.

Which one is more worth it acordding to their potential?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:00:24 No.18805504 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805500
>jolly
>trained in special

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:01:04 No.18805509 Report

Quoted By:

Why did you mix up the EVs training?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:01:31 No.18805510 Report

Quoted By: >>18805518 >>18805550

Jolly= +speed -Attack
Timid= +speed -Sp Attack

So you basically reversed what they should be EV wise.

Fingertrap

Fingertrap Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:03:53 No.18805517 Report

Quoted By: >>18805525

>>18805500
>what's better, physical or special?

you could just ask plainly. at least then you'd look new instead of retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:04:12 No.18805518 Report

Quoted By: >>18805522 >>18805537

>>18805510
Well, shit.

I got a Protean Timid Froakie long ago and was told to go PHY with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:04:39 No.18805522 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805518
>trusting vp
>ever

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:05:15 No.18805525 Report

Quoted By: >>18805529

>>18805517
Or maybe giving some actual advice instead of being an ass.

Fingertrap

Fingertrap Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:06:08 No.18805529 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805525
go play UU instead, it's less stale

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:09:51 No.18805537 Report

Quoted By: >>18805576 >>18805577

>>18805518
whoever told you so's retarded, man. Timid, especially, has pretty much no choice but to run special. Go for 252s in Speed and Sp.Atk, rest in HP, and attach a Life Orb. Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse/Grass Knot/Extrasensory, U-Turn/Spikes/Toxic Spikes

Danny 3969-5481-6535

Danny 3969-5481-6535 Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:12:27 No.18805550 Report

Quoted By: >>18805556 >>18805563

>>18805510
but he's right isn't he?

his jolly one is trained in SpA and his timid one is trained in attack. I don't see the problem?

btw OP go timid physical attacker

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:14:18 No.18805556 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805550
The natures are backwards, and special is better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:15:30 No.18805563 Report

Quoted By: >>18805576

>>18805550
You're either baiting, or pants on head retarded, and I can't figure out which would be worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:17:52 No.18805576 Report

Quoted By: >>18805582

>>18805563
>>18805537

I guess I'll have to breed a new Froakie then, I just hope it gets Protean too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:17:55 No.18805577 Report

Quoted By: >>18805581

>>18805537
>whoever told you so's retarded, man.

>Implying they didn't ruse OP for being a faggot that can't use google

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:18:54 No.18805581 Report

Quoted By: >>18805613

>>18805577
>>18805577
Sorry for asking. Idiot.
Like you never had questions about EV training.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:19:00 No.18805582 Report

Quoted By: >>18805588

>>18805576
>not using a goddamn reset bag or EVs berries
Jesus Christ, is this your first Pokémon game?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:20:04 No.18805588 Report

Quoted By: >>18805594 >>18805601

>>18805582
OP here, and you know what? I completely forgot the Reset Bag, thanks!

So, by the replies here, it seems Special is better in the end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:21:31 No.18805594 Report

Quoted By: >>18805606

>>18805588
The Physical set will be a little more viable once they release that stupid Flying Gem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:22:47 No.18805601 Report

Quoted By: >>18805606

>>18805588
Yes, special is better but Physical can work too. Do what you want.

Don't listen to people on /vp/, just take advice from the calm Anons. I can tell you're new to this stuff so good luck.

Google search certain natures when you're unsure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:23:38 No.18805606 Report

Quoted By: >>18805616 >>18805632

>>18805594
>>18805601

Right now my Physical Greninja has Power-up Punch, U-Turn, Night Slash and Water Shuriken while the other one has Surf, Dark Pulse, U-Turn and Ice Beam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:24:55 No.18805613 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805581
Never even implied there was something wrong with not knowing about EV training, m8. But stay mad, it's not my fault you didn't google a reliable source.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:26:08 No.18805616 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805606
Shit, forgot to add, I'll have to reverse the movesets between them because of their natures.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:27:03 No.18805632 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805606
Mm. I personally use Grass Knot instead of U-turn on Special Greninja.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:29:29 No.18805642 Report

Quoted By: >>18805649

You can always go with a +Spe -Sp.D/Def nature instead for a Special Attacker/U Turn set to not hinder attack in any way to maximise U-Turn's power

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:31:16 No.18805649 Report

Quoted By: >>18805676

>>18805642
What's better though? Hasty or Naive?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:33:14 No.18805658 Report

Quoted By: >>18805662 >>18805675

OP here.
Alright then, you've been very helpful in the end so this is how I got it:

First, I used two Reset Bags in both Greninjas, then, through TM's and Heart Scales I'll reverse their movesets according to their natures (since I got them reversed) and just Super Train them since I'm too lazy to battle hordes (I have everything I need but I'm just too lazy)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:34:09 No.18805662 Report

Quoted By: >>18805664 >>18805687

>>18805658
Except horde training takes less time than Super Training?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:34:43 No.18805664 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805662
I know I know, I've trained my whole team that way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:36:51 No.18805675 Report

Quoted By: >>18805687

>>18805658
... If you're lazy EV training by hoards would be better..

All you need is the macho brace and Pokerus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:37:00 No.18805676 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805649
either really, since you're not really built to take hits anyways, so you're gonna be U Turning out of SE moves. Naive or Hasty can also run Water Shuriken though I haven't tried it so dunno how viable it is

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:38:05 No.18805681 Report

Quoted By: >>18805700 >>18805702 >>18805743

Possible Greninja sets:

#1: Standard Special Greninja
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Nature: Timid
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Dark Pulse
-Grass Knot / Extrasensory

This is the most common one you see. Greninja is fast and has a good special movepool so it's a good late-game special sweeper.

#2: Specially based U-turn
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
Nature: Naive
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Dark Pulse / Grass Knot
-U-turn

This one is quite common too. U-turn is for muh momentum and nature is Naive so you don't lose power when using U-turn. Hasty could be used too, but since priority moves tend to be physical, Naive is recommended more.

#3: Physical Greninja
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Nature: Jolly
-Water Shuriken / Waterfall
-Shadow Sneak / Night Slash
-Acrobatics
-Fling (used with King's Rock)

Fling your King's Rock to deal some free damage against your opponent and then spam Acrobatics. This one is a bit gimmicky and not commonly used.

If you're playing Doubles/Triples, Mat Block is a very good support move. Greninja also gets Spikes and Toxic Spikes but is too frail to reliably set more than one layer of hazards without Focus Sash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:38:26 No.18805683 Report

Quoted By: >>18805697 >>18805754

I prefer goind Modest, it's not like there's much stuff that outspeeds you in the first place, and stuff that can get a speed +1 will outspeed you to begin with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:39:04 No.18805687 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805662
>>18805675
It doesn't matter if the Jolly Greninja is Lvl 87?
It'll get its stats boosted the same way if I EV Trained him since it was a Froakie?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:40:32 No.18805697 Report

Quoted By: >>18805714

>>18805683
Stop posting anytime.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:40:53 No.18805700 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805681
Mat Block is the most predictable Greninja. You're basically giving them a free setup/status turn, specially because you can only use it on the first turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:41:32 No.18805702 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805681
Cool man, I'll try both Jolly and Timid setups, thanks!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:42:59 No.18805714 Report

Quoted By: >>18805739

>>18805697
Why? Jollychomp still can't outspeed Greninja.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:47:48 No.18805739 Report

Quoted By: >>18805754

>>18805714
Stuff that outspeeds you with a Modest nature:
Keldeo
Virizion
Terrakion
Cobalion
Galvantula
Infernape
Heliolisk
Durant
Archeops
Froslass
Latios
Latias
Espeon
Jumpluff
Tauros
Gengar
Raichu
Thundurus
Tornadus
Scolipede
MegaLucario
Purugly
Serperior
Swoobat
Cinccino
Azelf
Ambipom
Floatzel
Absol
Raikou
Mega Houndoom
Sneasel
Starmie
Persian
Whimsicott
Zebstrika
Hawlucha
Sceptile
Alakazam
Tornadus-T
Noivern
Weavile
Swellow
Meloetta-P
Crobat
Aerodactyl
Jolteon
MegaGengar
MegaManectric
Electrode
Accelgor
MegaAerodactyl
MegaAlakazam
Ninjask

Stuff that outspeeds you with a Timid nature:
Noivern
Weavile
Swellow
Meloetta-P
Crobat
Aerodactyl
Jolteon
MegaGengar
MegaManectric
Electrode
Accelgor
MegaAerodactyl
MegaAlakazam
Ninjask

>b-but muh superior firepower!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:48:26 No.18805743 Report

Quoted By: >>18805867

>>18805681
Wait, now I noticed those sets have the Natures and EVs I was told here I got wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:50:50 No.18805754 Report

Quoted By: >>18805836

>>18805683
>Wanting to be outsped by Thundurus, Latios, Terrakion, and other fast sweepers

Yeah, how about no. For a bigger list, refer to this anon: >>18805739

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 14:05:25 No.18805836 Report

Quoted By: >>18805860

>>18805754
The thing is, Greninja doesn't have to outspeed -everything-. You have five other teamslots to deal with Terrakion, Keldeo, therian formes and Lati twins.
I would rather get the unexpected OHKO on more pokes.
Your opponent wouldn't really have any business switching those mons in unless they're scarfed, in which case he's having to reveal a set to you.
OR your opponent is guessing that you're running a modest set. Which is a bold move, not many people risk sac-ing off a team member on a flimsy prediction.
Based on usage stats, I'd say the amount of things Greninja outspeeds and deals with more effectively outweighs the number of mons Greninja has more trouble dealing with as Modest. The extra power is appreciated, and shouldn't be underestimated, especially with a LO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 14:08:54 No.18805860 Report

Quoted By: >>18805876

>>18805836
>>The thing is, Greninja doesn't have to outspeed -everything-
Yeah but it's best to outspeed as much as you can.
10% damage just isn't worth it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 14:10:29 No.18805867 Report

Quoted By: >>18805870

>>18805743
No, those spreads are right.
>Timid one has SpA
>Jolly one has Atk

That's how it should be. In the OP you have a jolly one trained in SpA and a timid one trained in Atk, which is dumb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 14:11:24 No.18805870 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805867
You're right, I misread them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 14:12:58 No.18805876 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805860
On that list, the only things that you really benefit from out speeding are the Latis, Genies and Terrakion. The rest are mons that have no business in OU, or would require switching out even if you -were- timid, Like Keldeo.
So it's just a matter of preference. But keep in mind if your opponent thinks it's Timid, it's as good as Timid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 14:16:19 No.18805887 Report

Quoted By: >>18805936

OP here, now I noticed, I wrote the OP totally wrong.

My Timid Greninja indeed IS EV Trained in SpA and the Jolly one in Atk, so I guess I was just on drugs while writing.

So, both are completely viable?
The King's Rock gimmicky one sounds interesting and fun too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 14:24:25 No.18805936 Report

Quoted By:

>>18805887
Drugs are one hell of a drug.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Apr 2014 18:28:48 No.18807378 Report

Quoted By:

>Timid
>Physical anything

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