/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #18912899

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Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:39:31 No.18912899 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>18912949 >>18912954 >>18912960 >>18912991 >>18913390

How do you beat this team?

Take note that:

Taunt cannot work again Mental Herb Scolipede and Espeon

Mr. Mime and Sylveon are immune to Dragon Tail

Mr. Mime is immune to Roar

Smeargle makes any kind of Phazing move useless with Ingrain and can sleep most pokemon

Unaware Pokemon cannot survive a 300 BP Stored Power

All Pokemon are behind a substitute

All Pokemon are +2 Speed and +2 Defense at minimum.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:43:06 No.18912949 Report

Quoted By:

>>18912899
Haze or set up a prankster taunt when it's not on a mon with a mental herb

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:43:43 No.18912954 Report

Quoted By:

>>18912899
>allowing them to set-up

I've found that using the git gud strategy always worked wonders.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:44:22 No.18912960 Report

Quoted By:

>>18912899
>All Pokemon are +2 Speed and +2 Defense at minimum.
You beat them by making sure this isn't the case.

Kill Scolipede or stop it from doing its job. It's bulky but it can definitely be done.
>Talonflame OHKOs guaranteed, 100% forces a hard switch

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:48:07 No.18912991 Report

Quoted By:

>>18912899
Perish song if its not mr.mime out
Clear smog if you can get a hit when a sub is not out
Leech seeds/hazards, though if they're obvious you'll get espeon'd.
Multi hitting moves ignore sashs and subs in the early game of baton passing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:49:13 No.18913002 Report

Quoted By: >>18913029

haze

set up a hazard with a pokemon that doesn't usually run hazards (for sash smeargle to lose his free spore turn)

get a crit with shedinja

infiltrator clear smog, if you ever decide to use that for general use

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:50:38 No.18913014 Report

Quoted By:

Get Smogon to ban it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:52:01 No.18913029 Report

Quoted By: >>18913051

>>18913002
>Using Shitmon

No

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:54:51 No.18913051 Report

Quoted By: >>18913062

>>18913029
Everything else is questionable but I'm pretty sure something could run Haze without being shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:55:58 No.18913061 Report

Quoted By: >>18913071 >>18913156

Talonflame 2HKOs pretty much everything on that team.
>OHKOs Scolipede
>2HKOs Mr Mime
>2HKOs Sylveon
>2HKOs Espeon
>1HKOs Smeargle
>71% chance of 2HKOing Vaporeon
and this is with maximum HP/Def investment on all of them too.

If you lead with it you're basically guaranteed a kill on something, the only possible exception being Vaporeon.
Even if Talonflame dies you can do the same thing with a CB Scizor BP or a CB Azumarill/Crawdaunt Aqua Jet which does the same thing (2HKO everything not called Vaporeon).

Because it's all priority, speed boost does nothing to it and it's impossible to get off a move against the attacker, let alone kill it with unboosted Hyper Voice (resisted by Talonflame and Scizor) and Stored Power (resisted by Scizor, Crawdaunt is immune).

That's probably the best thing I can come up with. I haven't checked the Azumarill/Crawdaunt calculations but I'm confident they'll all 2HKO the team apart from Vape.

Most importantly, none of them are shitmons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:56:07 No.18913062 Report

Quoted By:

>>18913051
Your only valid point was Haze

And Hazards don't work against this team because Espeon.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO pogchamp.jpg, 10KiB, 250x318

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 21:57:22 No.18913071 Report

Quoted By: >>18913202

>>18913061
>Leading with Talonflame

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 22:05:32 No.18913156 Report

Quoted By: >>18913173

>>18913061
To confirm:

>Talonflame OHKOs or 2HKOs everything
>Scizor OHKOs or 2HKOs everything except Vaporeon (notably OHKOing Smeargle, Mr Mime and Sylveon unless they carry Def investment and not just HP investment in which case they're neatly 2HKO'd)
>Azumarill can't quite 2HKO most of the team (assuming max HP/Def investment) but can still do loads of damage
>Crawdaunt is a bit stronger but still can't quite 2HKO everything either.

So basically Talonflame lead will put you at a massive advantage, basically guaranteeing you at least one kill regardless of what the BP team does, and Scizor can do the same thing except for Vaporeon (which is the BP team's best chance at dealing with Talonflame anyway).

Two already excellent mons and they're awesome against this team too. Just find something else to deal with Vaporeon specifically, add three more mons and you're set.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 22:06:36 No.18913173 Report

Quoted By: >>18913283

>>18913156
>smeargle hung on with its focus sash
>smeargle used spore

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 22:08:48 No.18913202 Report

Quoted By:

>>18913071
I don't often lead with Talonflame, but CB Adamant Brave Birds can rip through lots of leads / teams at the beginning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 22:15:26 No.18913283 Report

Quoted By:

>>18913173
It can only do it once and it can't do it on the switch. It's obviously a good counter of sorts to Talonflame/Scizor rape but it still has to lose a teammate to achieve anything at all.
Besides, does dEnIsSsS even run FS on his Smeargle?

Another good point is that Ghost-Curse is a great counter-option. It's not quite as universal as Scizor and Talonflame (who are very good in their own right) but it stops passing dead in its tracks, straight up, with no real counter besides Espeon who is 2HKO'd at best by all Curse users.
Perish Song is good too- though it's probably even less useful than Curse outside of countering BP teams, it's certainly less predictable because a good number of mons can carry it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 22:26:10 No.18913390 Report

Quoted By:

>>18912899
>Taunt cannot work again Mental Herb Scolipede
One time only
>Mr. Mime is immune to Roar
Not against a Mold Breaker
>Smeargle makes any kind of Phazing move useless with Ingrain and can sleep most pokemon
Frail as fuck, hit it with multi-hit moves. There's also Sleep Talk, Vital Spirit and Insomnia
>All Pokemon are behind a substitute
Infiltrator, multi-hit moves again.
>All Pokemon are +2 Speed and +2 Defense at minimum.
They are not. Haze/Clear Smog them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 22:29:34 No.18913421 Report

Quoted By:

Knock Off Bisharp or basically Knock Off in general can OHKO Espeon, make Scolipede Tauntable, and generally cripple the team.

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Espeon: 437-515 (130.8 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scolipede: 242-286 (74.6 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mr. Mime: 312-368 (109.8 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 22:31:24 No.18913435 Report

Quoted By: >>18913453

Use your own baton pass team but baton pass to an unaware Pokemon at the end of it. Unaware Pokemon take a 300 BP stored power just fine when they're at +6.

The problem with this team is it can't do anything to stop you from setting up yourself. Nothing on it carries taunt. It just relies on being able to setup faster than you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 22:33:25 No.18913453 Report

Quoted By:

>>18913435
> it can't do anything to stop you from setting up yourself.

That's where Smeargle's spore and Vaporeon's Roar comes in

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Apr 2014 22:43:44 No.18913540 Report

Quoted By:

Taunt Talonflame, Tornadus T (specially Taunt sets), Mega Pinsir, SD/Taunt/Scarf Terrak, CM Unaware Clefable (ik about the Stored Power thing but it sets up faster than BP), just means of 6-0ing the team.
You have a full team to stop it too, but these give a huge adventage.

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