/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #18999761

>>18999793
I was originally running both, but then found that I got walled hard by Ferrothorn, and switched to HP Fire.
I have Dark coverage with Mawile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 22:53:54 No.18999966 Report

Quoted By:

Ditch one attack and use Spikes. You already scare psychic types (Magic Bounce users, defogger Mew) and most spinners (bar Tentacruel), so you'll always get a free layer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 22:58:31 No.19000041 Report

Quoted By:

>>18999810
Except its not, stop lying. Also it's great for coverage, just leave dark moves for literally any pokemon with knock off and you're done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:03:17 No.19000109 Report

Quoted By: >>19000121 >>19000528

Dark Pulse for the STAB

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:04:07 No.19000121 Report

Quoted By: >>19001165

>>19000109
>implying greninja doesn't get stab on all moves due to protean
Not even 1100's are this retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:05:30 No.19000141 Report

Quoted By: >>19001018

>>18999761
Go with Dark Pulse. Dark has excellent neutral coverage. Change Scald to Hydropump since it needs all the power it can get.

Francisco 0087-2327-8084 (Fire: Ponyta, Slugma, Braixen)

Francisco 0087-2327-8084 (Fire: Ponyta, Slugma, Braixen) Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:06:54 No.19000161 Report

Quoted By: >>19000176

>>18999802
>Hydro pump missed!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:07:48 No.19000176 Report

Quoted By: >>19000208

>>19000161
>Some moves trade Accuracy for more Damage
Congrats, you'll get to 1200 rating with that knowledge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:08:20 No.19000180 Report

Quoted By: >>19000266 >>19000974

>>18999761
>running extrasensory
>ever

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:11:06 No.19000208 Report

Quoted By: >>19000253

>>19000176
Just saying it's not worth it. Greninja will always get 1HKO'd by any attack. Surf/scald are safer options.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:15:00 No.19000253 Report

Quoted By: >>19000266

>>19000208
No, hydro pump is the safer option. That move has more chance of KO'ing stuff than those two ever will. And greninja was not made with bulk in mind to use scald on it, with the ability of getting stab on everything you'd think you'd use the stronger options, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:15:55 No.19000263 Report

Quoted By: >>19000280 >>19000486

>people shitfitting over Scald, but in reality it's the better move if you're running Timid with 252 EV's in SpAtk
If someone can list all the OHKO's that Pump nabs you that Scald won't, I'll be more convinced.

Anyways, relevant to OP, probably Dark Pulse. Though neither are really THAT impressive. I guess Extrasensory might be useful for trying to revenge kill M-Saur but that's about it. I run Grass Knot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:16:04 No.19000266 Report

Quoted By: >>19000446 >>19000545 >>19000677

>>19000180
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 244-291 (67 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(Not like Giga Drain won't OHKO but it's the only way to pick it off if it's weakened)

also,
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def PSYCHIC TYPE Greninja: 99-117 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
while
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 273-322 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm just saying it DOES have its uses.

>>19000253
Enemy Charizard avoided the attack!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:17:24 No.19000280 Report

Quoted By: >>19000355

>>19000263
I have no other coverage for Venusaur, which is why I considered it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:18:04 No.19000288 Report

Quoted By: >>19000301 >>19001958

>Not running a physical set
It's not too bad, just 8 points lower and it has:
Water Shoryuken
Shadow Sneak
Night Slash
Rock Slide
U-Turn
Bounce

Oh... well that's about it.
Waterfall

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:19:04 No.19000301 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000288
I already have Mawile and Dragonite on my team; even if that was a serious suggestion, I needed a special sweeper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:23:13 No.19000355 Report

Quoted By: >>19000385 >>19000437 >>19000446

>>19000280
>relying on Greninja to check Venusaur
>252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 342-404 (119.5 - 141.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah, don't do that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:25:30 No.19000380 Report

Quoted By: >>19000401

>>18999761
Surf
Ice Beam
Dark Pulse
Extrasensory

You don't need HP Fire. The fighting type coverage is more important.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:25:50 No.19000385 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000355
>doing the calcs for Water Greninja
Pls

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:26:37 No.19000401 Report

Quoted By: >>19000587

>>19000380
I have no othrt Fire coverage on my team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:29:37 No.19000437 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000355
>252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 244-291 (67 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 205-243 (71.6 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Greninja as Psychic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:30:26 No.19000446 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000355
>>19000266
you retard.png

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:34:10 No.19000486 Report

Quoted By: >>19000610 >>19000696

>>19000263
>ohks that pump nabs that scald can't.

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Galvantula: 298-352 (106 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Galvantula: 218-257 (77.5 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 341-403 (105.2 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 250-294 (77.1 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 266-316 (97.7 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 195-230 (71.6 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 198-237 (65.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 273-322 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 226-268 (55.9 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 166-198 (41 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 253-298 (96.5 - 113.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 185-218 (70.6 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 523-616 (124.5 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 377-447 (89.7 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 382-452 (122.4 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 281-330 (90 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Enough to convince me to run Pump over Scald
Scald is for defensive mons, which Greninja isn't

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1369683521031.jpg, 24KiB, 199x314

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:38:52 No.19000528 Report

Quoted By: >>19001165

>>19000109
Jesus, how stupid are you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:40:04 No.19000545 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000266
>i-it can miss, therefore its bad!
Yeah, that's why totally NOBODY runs focus blast, fire blast and stone edge right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:43:20 No.19000587 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000401
You don't have fire coverage /and/ you also don't have something to handle megavenu? You should consider some teambuilding changes if you're forced to throw greninja against all those different grass types, protean or not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:44:46 No.19000610 Report

Quoted By: >>19000633 >>19000699 >>19001734

>>19000486
>Greninja used Hydro Pump!
>It missed 20% of the time!
>Greninja used Scald!
>It dealt 12.5% more damage 30% of the time, turning many of these into OHKOs!
And that's without even saying that many times both will be OHKOs (if Scald does more than 101%) or both will be 2HKOs (if Pump does less than 99%)
TLDR
>cherrypicking this badly

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:46:49 No.19000633 Report

Quoted By: >>19000654 >>19000756

>>19000610
252 SpA Galvantula Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 390-462 (136.3 - 161.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:47:54 No.19000654 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000633
>implying every Galvantula doesn't run sash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:49:04 No.19000677 Report

Quoted By: >>19000707 >>19000720 >>19000760

>>19000266
you shouldn't be using Greninja as a Venasaur counter/check. Psychic is a shitty type, and waste of a moveslot on a non psychic mon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:50:15 No.19000696 Report

Quoted By: >>19000810 >>19000819 >>19000863 >>19001942

>>19000486
>Galvantula
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Galvantula: 328-385 (116.7 - 137%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>Aegislash-B
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 499-588 (154 - 181.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>Bisharp
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 291-346 (104.3 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>Leaving Greninja in on Rotom-H

>Not U-Turning out of M-TTar

>Outspeeding Gengar

>the rest are just the chance of OHKO

>Scald is for defensive mons
And that is why you're an idiot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:50:29 No.19000699 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000610
Choose scald, but don't go crying when you can't KO a pokemon because you chose the inferior move and the opponent KO's you instantly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:50:49 No.19000707 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000677
Are you trolling or...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:51:32 No.19000720 Report

Quoted By: >>19001712

>>19000677
But greninja IS a psychic mon when using the move, idiot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:54:22 No.19000756 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000633
What is your point, that Electric > Water?
Yes, obviously. You only stay in if you have nothing better to do.
By the way this is a really bad example. 99% of Galvantulas are sash leads, which means they nees 2 hits to die. Scald MAY kill in 1 hit (bring close to 10% HP, burn, kill)
Hydro pump has (collectively) a 36% chance to miss at least once if it is fired twice.
Tbh I'd just use Ice Beam twice against a Galvantula because it's more reliable and because it will hit back for only ~70%

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:54:38 No.19000760 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000677
Holy shit.

Stop talking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:58:38 No.19000810 Report

Quoted By: >>19000840 >>19000855

>>19000696
>>Outspeeding Gengar
Not that guy, but am I missing something here? I don't see a lot of scarfed Gengars, if that's what you were trying to say.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Apr 2014 23:59:42 No.19000819 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000696
>greninja
>not outspeeding gengar

u wot m8

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:00:40 No.19000840 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000810
Base 122 speed in charge of being outsped by Base 110

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:01:36 No.19000851 Report

Quoted By:

>>18999810
>Not wanting to donk Mega Venusaur

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:01:45 No.19000855 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000810
>M-Gengar
>oh wait smogon singles

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:02:33 No.19000863 Report

Quoted By: >>19000948

>>19000696
>and this is why you're an idiot

So why do pokemon like Seismitoad, Lapras, Milotic and Vaporeon run Scald over Hydro Pump? Why does Quagsire run Scald over Surf? Because they are defensive mons and use the burn to their advantage, there is no reason for them to use Surf/Hydro Pump

It's pretty obvious that Scald is more common on defensive mons, which Greninja isn't. It's supposed to be a fast special sweeper, and using a weaker move like Scald is only hindering it, it needs the extra power from Pump

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:06:30 No.19000948 Report

Quoted By: >>19001067

>>19000863
The point was Scald can be used by an offense-oriented Pokemon like Greninja, not just defensive mons like those you mentioned.

>Scald is only hindering it
Except every scenario you mentioned above you would either a.) use a different move or b.) switch out anyway - as I mentioned in the post you're quoting. Plus if you don't OHKO a physical mon you could burn it, instead of just missing and dying anyway.

Utility > 30 extra power - 30% accuracy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:07:31 No.19000974 Report

Quoted By: >>19000999

>>19000180
No, Extrasensory is actually a good move because of Mega Venusaur. It's even in Greninja's analysis on Smogon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:08:56 No.19000999 Report

Quoted By: >>19001067

>>19000974
There are better answers to M-Saur that you could run instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:10:52 No.19001018 Report

Quoted By: >>19001039 >>19001060

>>19000141
>Change Scald to Hydropump since it needs all the power it can get.

But Hydro Pump has bad accuracy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:12:01 No.19001039 Report

Quoted By: >>19001093

>>19001018
>bad accuracy
Also the extra 30 BP isn't that helpful in practice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:13:00 No.19001060 Report

Quoted By:

>>19001018
Doesn't stop Scarf Lando-Ts from using Stone Edge

Greninja needs all the power he can get

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:13:38 No.19001067 Report

Quoted By: >>19001080

>>19000999
Greninja is already a "good answer" to Mega Venusaur. And it's not good for only Venusaur either. It deals with Conkeldurr, Keldeo, and Tentacruel better too. The more threats Greninja can clean up, the better.

Also I agree with the guys saying you shouldn't run Scald. It's crap on Greninja. Hydro Pump is better even with the accuracy drop.

>>19000948
>-30% accuracy

Hydro Pump has 80% accuracy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:14:53 No.19001080 Report

Quoted By: >>19001106

>>19001067
>Hydro Pump is better
Why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:15:36 No.19001093 Report

Quoted By: >>19001108 >>19001353

>>19001039
Yes, it is. Greninja can't afford to take hits. High risk high reward.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:16:12 No.19001106 Report

Quoted By: >>19001275 >>19001353

>>19001080
Because it's more powerful. Actually KOing stuff from the power boost wins me more matches than losing from it missing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:16:19 No.19001108 Report

Quoted By: >>19003440

>>19001093
Name some instances in which the extra power from Hydro Pump actually makes a difference when Greninja has 252 EV's invested in SpAtk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:17:03 No.19001117 Report

Quoted By: >>19001140

Dark pulse, Extrasensory, Hydro Pump/Scald and Ice Beam. Extrasensory gives you a leverage against fighting types who will murder you if you have an ice and dark move with protean.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:18:18 No.19001140 Report

Quoted By:

>>19001117
also extrasensory is good for poison and thick fat venasaur who will resist ice beam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:19:32 No.19001165 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000121
>>19000528
I think that was a joke

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:27:18 No.19001275 Report

Quoted By: >>19001334

>>19001106
this is bullshit and you know it, well if youre talking about your precious simulator of curse you're right but in real life that gambling leaves you dry, HP it's a ruse on Greninja i'd rather use Scald it's more effective plus the only real gamble with Scald is the 30% burning issue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:30:34 No.19001334 Report

Quoted By: >>19001353

>>19001275
in real life the gambling lets me succeed more ;)

even just use basic math man, the average damage of Hydro Pump is 110*0.8 = 88. Scald is 80*1 = 80. 88>80. Yes there is a 20% chance to miss but it isn't nearly as bad as you think in exchange for the power

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:31:58 No.19001353 Report

Quoted By: >>19001510 >>19001579

>>19001093
>>19001106
>>19001334
I still haven't been told of any instances where Hydro Pump is better than Scald.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:39:27 No.19001449 Report

Quoted By:

I run Surf, Ice Beam, Extrasensory, and Dark Pulse.

I must be a pleb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:45:24 No.19001510 Report

Quoted By: >>19001630

>>19001353
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 266-316 (95.3 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 195-230 (69.8 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 174-205 (58.3 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 127-151 (42.6 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 226-268 (55.9 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 166-198 (41 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 199-234 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 144-172 (41.8 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
[if not running hp fire]

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 377-447 (116.7 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 276-328 (85.4 - 101.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 153-183 (55 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 110-133 (39.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

all cases where Hydro Pump has a much more reliable rate of KOing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:50:47 No.19001579 Report

Quoted By: >>19001630

>>19001353
The chances of Greninja living past more than two Neutral hit are practically nonzero, or not high enough to bother. They want to run Hydro Pump because if/when they do outspeed the opponent's Pokemon, they have a chance to miss but they have a higher chance of OHKOing the Pokemon.

Two situations demonstrating failure:
>A.) You outspeed, use Hydro Pump and you miss. You either die or you come extremely close, and next turn you either miss and die or hit and possibly not OHKO, then die.
>B.) You outspeed, use Scald, and hit. You don't do enough damage to OHKO. You either die or come extremely close, and next turn you might not 2HKO depending on how much you did initially.

Alternative:
>C.) You use Hydro Pump and hit. They aren't OHKO'd. In Scald's situation, there is a 0% chance of the opponent dying outside of a critical hit.

They're saying Hydro Pump is better because on the chance it does hit, the chances of them being able to counterattack are lower than if you used Scald.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:55:39 No.19001630 Report

Quoted By: >>19001640 >>19001883

>>19001510
>Bisharp
HP Fire OHKO's

>leaving Greninja on M-Char

>not U-Turning on M-TTar

>M-Scizor
HP Fire OHKO's

>implying Heatran can do anything back to Greninja

>leaving Greninja in on M-Gardevoir

Examples aren't convincing enough.

>>19001579
>missing the point

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:56:33 No.19001640 Report

Quoted By: >>19001684

>>19001630
>Missing the point
I guess so, elaborate

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 00:59:45 No.19001684 Report

Quoted By:

>>19001640
The point is that the extra power provided by Hydro Pump is unnecessary in most scenarios.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:03:30 No.19001712 Report

Quoted By: >>19003474

>>19000720
you know what i mean you fuck tard. If a mon is mono psychic then they need a psychich for stab, any other mon does not need such a shitty type.
Extrasensory is not a good move on greninja, if you're using greninja as a check/counter for venasaur than you have shitty team making skills.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:04:13 No.19001717 Report

Quoted By: >>19001736

I use this:
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
I like U-turn a lot (muh momentum), and it does decent damage, but I think coverage is better.

What do you think? Should I replace U-turn with Extrasensory? I want to keep my Greninja, so HP fire is not an option (it has dark, lol).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:06:09 No.19001734 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000610
>retards like this who think that a stronger move is only worth using if it nets OHKO's

pokemon battles aren't played in a 1v1 vaccuum

for a glass cannon like greninja, the higher base power move is ALWAYS the better option except in rare cases where the accuracy trade-off is really bad (like for Pokemon that can use Focus Blast).

it's not about "can it okho", its about "when faced with a variably weakened, nondescript enemy that I can only hit for neutral damage, my glass cannon needs to do as much damage as it possibly can".

scald definitely has utility for spreading burn and is probably the better choice on a u-turning set, but on a straight-up special attacker you're retarded if you aren't using the higher-BP move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:06:25 No.19001736 Report

Quoted By: >>19001804 >>19001862 >>19001897 >>19001977

>>19001717
>Surf
Run Scald.

>Dark Pulse
Replace with Extrasensory.

I mean it's still a meh set without HP Fire, so it doesn't really matter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:14:04 No.19001804 Report

Quoted By: >>19001830 >>19001863 >>19003960

>>19001736
>Scald
I think power is more important to Greninja than a possible burn.

>replacing Dark Pulse with Extrasensory
I don't know.

Well, I think I'll breed for an HP fire one, or maybe ask for one here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:16:23 No.19001830 Report

Quoted By:

>>19001804
>I think power is more important
Well you have to ask yourself how much the extra power really gets you. If they both OHKO or 2HKO most Pokemon than it doesn't matter which one you use, but Scald can burn so it's the better option.

The reason why Extrasensory is better is that it takes care of M-Venusaur. Though you could just U-Turn out if you had another way of dispatching it. It depends on your team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:18:23 No.19001862 Report

Quoted By: >>19003421

>>19001736
>scald
on an offensive water mon.
Wut

>Extrasensory
>Letting aeigslash wall you.

Holy shit /VP/ is shit at this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:18:28 No.19001863 Report

Quoted By:

>>19001804
>I think I'll breed for an HP fire one
Tried that earlier today. Had to eventually ask someone for a 31/0/31/30/31/30 Ditto after spending at least 2 hours and making very little progress. It really sucks that you're only allowed to know the highest stats right away.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:19:39 No.19001879 Report

Quoted By: >>19001897

>>18999802
Enjoy missing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:19:53 No.19001883 Report

Quoted By: >>19001945

>>19001630
>leaving Greninja on M-Char
it's good if the opponent switches into Charizard. With Scald you most likely don't even deal half and you have to run away. With Hydro Pump you take over half and stay in and deal another Hydro Pump to KO.

>implying Heatran can do anything back to Greninja
Earth Power can deal over 50%. You either Hydro Pump and kill it right away or Scald, not even KO it, then KO'd if your HP is low enough.

>leaving Greninja in on M-Gardevoir
Perfectly fine if I can actually KO it. But yeah, it WOULD be stupid to leave it in if you're running Scald with less of a chance to KO given Gardevoir is weakened or is switching in.

>Examples aren't convincing enough.
They're perfectly convincing. If calcs aren't showing you that Scald is trash, then nothing will. Feel free to keep running your inferior move though. ;)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:21:00 No.19001897 Report

Quoted By: >>19001909

>>19001736
>Run Scald
don't listen to this

>>19001879
Enjoy not KOing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:22:19 No.19001909 Report

Quoted By: >>19001925

>>19001897
Better to actually get some damage than to not get any at all

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:22:43 No.19001918 Report

Quoted By:

>>18999810

>100% accuracy
>Chances to flinch
>Bad move

It's hard to please you people nowadays, isn't it? Other than the weak coverage due to how bad the typing is, it's still decent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:23:23 No.19001925 Report

Quoted By:

>>19001909
Better to actually get rid of the Pokemon entirely than to let it live and get my Pokemon more damaged

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:23:32 No.19001926 Report

Quoted By:

>people seriously arguing that the miss chance on Hydro Pump is relevant

Have any of you people actually played Pokemon? 80% accuracy means that eight out of every ten attacks will hit. Those odds are overwhelmingly in your favor, and when we're talking about a BP difference of 30 (which gets multiplied further by STAB and Life Orb; Scald has an effective BP of 156 and Hydro Pump has 214) there's really no reason whatsoever to go for the lower-BP move unless you're specifically looking to abuse Burn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:24:53 No.19001942 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000696
>switching out on rotom-h and mttar instead of killing them

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:25:08 No.19001945 Report

Quoted By: >>19002011

>>19001883
>it's good if the opponent switches into Charizard.
>switching Charizard into Greninja
Who does this?

>You either Hydro Pump and kill it right away or Scald
Neither move OHKO Heatran. Hydro Pump just has a slightly higher (7%) chance of 2HKO'ing.

>Perfectly fine if I can actually KO it.
Hydro Pump again doesn't OHKO Mega Gardevoir, but guess whose Hyper Voice OHKO's Greninja? Also U-Turn sets have no problem handling M-Garde.

Your examples are garbage just like Hydro Pump.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:26:10 No.19001958 Report

Quoted By:

>>19000288
>Water Shoryuken

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:27:59 No.19001977 Report

Quoted By: >>19002013

>>19001736
>Scald
Don't do this. This man is an idiot, use surf.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:30:32 No.19002011 Report

Quoted By: >>19002112

>>19001945
>Who does this?

Everyone if they have nothing better to switch to at the time. Charizard-Y has extra sp. def and nullifies water damage with sun and can use solar beam so they can hope to tank some water attacks and KO.

>Neither move OHKO Heatran. Hydro Pump just has a slightly higher (7%) chance of 2HKO'ing.
Hydro Pump 1HKOs Heatran. Scald only has a 6.3% of 1HKOing.

>Hydro Pump again doesn't OHKO Mega Gardevoir
No, but it deals more damage. Which means more of the time it's going to KO if the Gardevoir is already weakened. Additionally if the opponent is switching into Gardevoir from something else and it gets hit with Hydro Pump on the switch, Hydro Pump can KO. Meanwhile Scald won't, and you'll just take a Hyper Voice and die.

>Your examples are garbage just like Hydro Pump.
Really? At least it actually has a higher percentage of getting rid of stuff right away instead of just going "y-you shouldn't leave it in!" and switching out. :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:30:39 No.19002013 Report

Quoted By:

>>19001977
>Surf
Don't do this. This man is an idiot, use waterfall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:37:33 No.19002112 Report

Quoted By: >>19002148 >>19002217 >>19002397

>>19002011
>Everyone if they have nothing better to switch to at the time
So potentially sacking your Mega just to dispatch Greninja - not even that worrisome of a mon to begin with - is a common thing according to you? lol ok

>Hydro Pump 1HKOs Heatran.
Except it doesn't.

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 276-328 (71.5 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Heatran: 304-359 (78.7 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

>it's going to KO if the Gardevoir is already weakened.
I don't know why someone, unless desperate, would throw in their Mega with less than full HP against a mon they know could finish it off. Especially with U-Turn being a common enough move on Greninja.

>At least it actually has a higher percentage of getting rid of stuff right away
At least Scald has a higher percentage of hitting and still does a threatening amount of damage along with additional burn chance.

Come up with better examples kid. :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:41:07 No.19002148 Report

Quoted By: >>19002299

>>19002112
except spd heatran isn't the most common set, offensive toxic/sr heatran is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:46:07 No.19002217 Report

Quoted By:

>>19002112
>So potentially sacking your Mega just to dispatch Greninja - not even that worrisome of a mon to begin with - is a common thing according to you?

It may not be common, but it's just an example of a situation where Hydro Pump is better than Scald. Greninja is good as a late game cleaner, so if the opponent has no better options then yes they will switch into Charizard Y.

>Except it doesn't.
see my calcs, not every Heatran is fully sp. def invested.

>I don't know why someone, unless desperate, would throw in their Mega with less than full HP against a mon they know could finish it off. Especially with U-Turn being a common enough move on Greninja.
see charizard example

>At least Scald has a higher percentage of hitting and still does a threatening amount of damage along with additional burn chance
Hitting with weaker damage and having a burn which most likely won't happen because Greninja is frail as shit and can't spam Scald as often, or a simply higher damage move that can actually KO stuff more? Hmm...I wonder which is better :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:50:04 No.19002278 Report

Quoted By: >>19002689

>Scald - 80BP
>Hydropump - 88BP at average (80% of 110 BP)
>Surf - 90BP

Why are you guys even choosing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 01:52:22 No.19002299 Report

Quoted By:

>>19002148
The most common heatran set on pokemonshowdown is 252hp/spdef

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 02:00:29 No.19002397 Report

Quoted By: >>19002542

>>19002112

>id rather go for a burn chance than hitting key 1hkos

i run a real hp fire, hydro pump suicide greninja on cart, and i gotta say you're a retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 02:14:15 No.19002542 Report

Quoted By:

>>19002397
>hitting key 1hkos
share 'em

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 02:27:03 No.19002689 Report

Quoted By: >>19002899

>>19002278

These "average damage" calculations are fucking retarded.

Hydro Pump will never fire at "88BP". You either do the full 110BP, or zero. It's a case where the "average" is a fallacy because the "average" is a completely impossible occurrence.

The ACTUAL calculation for the "average" is this:

Hydro Pump (110BP/80% Acc.) used ten times: 880BP (misses twice)

Scald: (80BP/100% Acc.) used ten times: 800BP (doesn't miss)

Eight Hydro Pumps are equivalent to ELEVEN Scalds. So what if Scald can hit every turn; Hydro Pump can miss and still outdamage it by a vast margin over the course of the battle.

Battles don't last one turn. You're retarded if a you're letting a move's minor potential to miss on one specific turn (which is totally irrelevant over time) actually influence your decision making.

Also: This is the reason you ladder and accrue points over time, rather than having your rank decided by one single battle. A crucial Hydro Pump miss might cost you one battle, but the extra power will do significantly more damage to opponents over time than you could ever hope to with Scald. If you aren't playing the averages then you're playing to lose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 02:46:25 No.19002899 Report

Quoted By: >>19003377

>>19002689

Surf (90BP/100%) used ten times: 900BP (doesn't miss)

Better than either of them.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO porygon2.jpg, 34KiB, 300x293

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 03:07:36 No.19003181 Report

Quoted By:

Tbh Scald has its merits if you're facing semi-stall or a more defensive team you can't expect to bulldoze. For instance, I run Porygon2 which shits on any non-retarded Greninja set (like PuP ones), and I can comfortably switch in regardless of what it fires. However, I want every Greninja in the world to run Hydro Pump instead of Scald, because if I take SR damage+ move damage+ burn damage and a U-turn to the nose to top it all, it'll sure get harder to respond properly. I think the same thing applies to some special walls/tanks that you can't do much about like Sylveon, Snorlax, Tentacruel and whatnot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 03:22:11 No.19003377 Report

Quoted By: >>19003425

>>19002899
He wrote it wrong though,
He counted 8 hydro pumps (880) not ten (1100) of course, you can only use 8 hydro pumps at maximum.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 03:26:33 No.19003421 Report

Quoted By:

>>19001862
>expecting to OHKO aegislash
>expecting to survive a sacred sword

Better switch to a counter, say mandibuzz, and attack the sword with foul play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 03:27:12 No.19003425 Report

Quoted By:

>>19003377

>I will always hit with a 80% move

Let me guess. Your Greninja somehow has Compound Eyes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 03:28:43 No.19003440 Report

Quoted By:

>>19001108
Jeez idiot just read the thread there's a buttload of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 03:33:15 No.19003474 Report

Quoted By:

>>19001712
As another guy said in this thread, it also helps take care of other pokemon such as tentacruel, Keldeo, conkeldurr, while dark pulse only works for aegislash (who will survive and KO back if its in shield form), and gengar (who is weak to psychic as well, and both moves do the same damage)

Who's the real shithead at teambuilding?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 03:43:53 No.19003593 Report

Quoted By:

>Some actually reasoned Hydro Pump is good just because others like Fire Blast/Focus Blast is commonly used

Fire Blast is used because it actually has a higher average return compared to Flamethrower in Gen 6.

>Flamethrower (90BP 100%) used twenty times = 1,800BP (0 miss)
>Fire Blast (110BP 85%) used twenty times = 1,870BP (3 miss)

Focus Miss is used because most of its users have nothing better for coverage. That, and Aura Sphere has low distribution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 04:19:07 No.19003960 Report

Quoted By: >>19006449

>>19001804
>I think power is more important to Greninja than a possible burn.
Which is why if you're not running Scald you should run Hydro Pump. Surf doesn't do enough extra damage that it gets anything in 1 hit that Scald would in 2, whereas Hydro Pump would.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 11:31:23 No.19006296 Report

Quoted By: >>19006299

Is physical Greninja viable at all? I bred a pentaperfect along with one with everything but special attack and I heard it does well apparently.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 11:32:59 No.19006299 Report

Quoted By:

>>19006296
Only if it is adamant

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 11:54:40 No.19006374 Report

Quoted By: >>19006429 >>19007113 >>19011097

>tfw Water Shuriken is a cool signature move
>tfw it's a waste of a move slot
Why are almost all signature moves so bad, /vp/?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 12:09:56 No.19006429 Report

Quoted By:

>>19006374
Muddy Water was pretty neat when it was Swampert exclusive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 12:16:30 No.19006449 Report

Quoted By:

>>19003960
Chances are if its something you can okho with hydro pump, they wont stay in. the extra damage from surf over scald is nice for wearing switch ins down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 14:50:01 No.19007113 Report

Quoted By:

>>19006374
At least Chesnaught got a cool one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 Apr 2014 22:33:44 No.19011097 Report

Quoted By:

>>19006374
Some don't fit the Pokemon. Look at Sceptile. Leaf Blade was perfect for it in Gen III but then it became physical in Gen IV.

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