/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #19104940

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 19:48:33 No.19104940 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>19104992 >>19105158 >>19109019 >>19111788

Poll thread.
Putting opinions of smogon aside. Do triple battles render tiers useless? We both agree that triple battles do in fact make tiers less important; however, he believes triple battles are the main test of skill in competitive battling over single and double battles. Opinions, vp?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 19:50:28 No.19104992 Report

Quoted By:

>>19104940
Context: me and roommate arguing over pogeymanz

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 19:57:28 No.19105158 Report

Quoted By: >>19105617

>>19104940

triple battles > single battles

Single battles:
>>Only one pokemon out at a time
>>Switch-fest
>>Glorified rock/paper/sissors
>>Tiers mean everything

Triple battles:
>>New age of Pokemon
>>More strategy options
>>Can combine strengths of multiple pokemon to account for weakness
>> 3 >1

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 20:17:42 No.19105617 Report

Quoted By: >>19105822

>>19105158
>objective speculation

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 20:25:41 No.19105822 Report

Quoted By: >>19107459 >>19107528

>>19105617
>>Lacking counterpoint b/c there isn't one.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 21:33:12 No.19107459 Report

Quoted By: >>19107845

>>19105822
get off the internet, fagit

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 21:36:48 No.19107528 Report

Quoted By: >>19107845

>>19105822

>what is burden of proof

>what are citations

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 21:49:32 No.19107845 Report

Quoted By: >>19107918 >>19108021 >>19108480

>>19107459
>>19107528

Basic math:
Take one round as an example:

single battle:
>>2 pokemon w/ 4 moves each, each attacking once, leaving 8^2 possible outcomes.

triple battle:
>>6 pokemon w/ 4 moves each each attacking once leaving 24^6 possible outcomes.

Now, this VERY basic analysis neglects attack targets, variety in typing, overall move pools, preplanning... needless to say, the battle variety grows rather exponentially.

Conclusion:
More possible outcomes can be directly linked to greater battle variety, leaving much more to strategy, reading the opponent, and preplanning, i.e. Strategy. This is why you can spend a lifetime perfecting chess (many pieces with a variety of moves), while checkers (only one move type) is a child's game.

babby's first math:
http://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations.html

Lawl, Plebs stuck in the past.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 21:53:19 No.19107918 Report

Quoted By: >>19107978 >>19108021

>>19107845
tldr

doesnt even matter, type match ups matter more than random variability of moves.
still have a max of 24 moves on a team of 6. better cover them types bruh

>fire

captcha: proved dportnc

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 21:56:22 No.19107978 Report

Quoted By: >>19108037

>>19107918

>>tldr

's ok, wouldn't want you to think too hard, could give you a headache

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 21:58:16 No.19108021 Report

Quoted By: >>19108147

>>19107918
>>19107845
ok serious argument this time.

triple battles almost limit you to certain movesets. imo you have to have certain abilities to make sure you can effectively sweep with certain moves (telepathy). limiting yourself to these kinds of strategies leave you with maybe one or two complete checkmates.

however if you wing it, its less strategy and more or less luck.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 21:59:19 No.19108037 Report

Quoted By:

>>19107978
nice b8 m8 i r8 8/8

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:04:06 No.19108147 Report

Quoted By: >>19108282 >>19108353 >>19108669

>>19108021
I'd beg to differ, you're still approaching it from a single-battle mindset, while some moves become limited (ie. multiple target moves, as you've pointed out) it forces you to create new strategies. It's adapting new techniques rather than trying to force old ones into a new game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:10:46 No.19108282 Report

Quoted By: >>19108623

>>19108147
not really. its pretty obvious as from your earlier post that there is more variability in terms of matchups when facing 3v3. you need to synchronize your pokemon to work together, so to do that you need specialized sets, as in singe battles. the only difference is, theyre only suited for triples. this type of gameplay hasnt been explored too much, but it is pokemon nonetheless. what will happen is; people will build teams to shut down teamwork, and from there it can devolve into a more 1v1 battle scene. it isnt 1v1, the strategies arent 1v1, but i see it becoming a switch game eventually.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:13:52 No.19108353 Report

Quoted By: >>19109229

>>19108147
i can destroy your whole argument but i wont, unless i need to. lets just say, no matter what (1v1 2v2 3v3) pokemon is just advanced rock paper scissors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:19:53 No.19108480 Report

Quoted By: >>19108650

>>19107845
>grass is green
>sky is blue
>implying that anybody asked for proof of the obvious increase in complexity per turn

That argument you made? It's called a straw-man. 8/10 for effort, 0/10 for ability to make a valid point

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:26:17 No.19108623 Report

Quoted By: >>19108727

>>19108282

There's a lot of speculation in your post, and as you've mentioned, triple battles haven't been explored much. You sort of kill your own argument by saying:
>>people will build teams to shut down teamwork
All you've basically said is that people will build teams for triple battles. It really can't become a switch game when half of your entire team are out on the field at all times.

Triple battles provide a new frontier providing room for developing new strategies in a game that's been running for nearly 16yrs. Get out of your comfort zone and join a new generation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:27:25 No.19108650 Report

Quoted By: >>19108669 >>19108770

>>19108480
considering rock, paper, scissors is basically pokemon:

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/how-win-rock-paper-scissors-science

more of a psyche battle, doesnt depend heavily on variation, but prediction. granted, prediction becomes harder with more variability but does not change the core strategies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:28:26 No.19108669 Report

Quoted By:

>>19108650
meant for>>19108147

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:30:50 No.19108727 Report

Quoted By:

>>19108623
new strategies have nothing to do with a demand of increased skill. im not arguing against new strategies, just pointing out that its the same struggle.

>yfw opponent saves his ass by switching in a triple battle

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:32:11 No.19108770 Report

Quoted By: >>19108806

>>19108650

>>granted, prediction becomes harder with more variability

I'm done here.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:32:51 No.19108790 Report

Quoted By: >>19109084

It doesn't matter how dynamic you make the format. There will always be pokemon that just perform better or can fill roles better than other pokemon.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:33:24 No.19108806 Report

Quoted By:

>>19108770
>missing the point

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:39:00 No.19108908 Report

Quoted By:

Triples are better IMHO.
>inb4 they ban Cherrim to ubers because reasons

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:44:57 No.19109019 Report

Quoted By: >>19111252

>>19104940
this thread is fucking stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:48:01 No.19109084 Report

Quoted By:

>>19108790
This. Triple Battles don't suddenly make 'notch' Pokemon suddenly special. Actually, in turn it makes notch's even worse, as they might not even HAVE a place in the changes. The 'solid' Pokemon thought are going to keep doing well thought, as they don't lose effectiveness in turn of there being more targets.

Honestly thought I far more prefer rotation battles then Triple.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 07 May 2014 22:53:47 No.19109229 Report

Quoted By: >>19111252

>>19108353

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 08 May 2014 00:26:14 No.19111252 Report

Quoted By:

>>19109229
>>19109019
need more opinions
related to topic
thanks4thebump

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 08 May 2014 00:46:25 No.19111788 Report

Quoted By: >>19112074

>>19104940
I've been dying for a triples thread, and this is close enough, so I'll weigh in.

Triples doesn't invalidate tiers, but it does alter them.

In my experience, Priority plays a much stronger role in how a pogeyman performs, and while you don't need it on every mon, going into a triples battle without priority, or anti-priority (Quick guard, fake out) is setting yourself up for a hard time.

Telepathy, Wide Guard, Center-positioned flying types, clever use of fly/dig/skydrop are all big parts of a fairly wide ruse/counter ruse game.

I exclusively play triples, and love it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 08 May 2014 00:59:49 No.19112074 Report

Quoted By: >>19115050

>>19111788
i agree with everything youve stated, however i feel like people will start to invalidate all other types of battles. to be a true pokemaster you must master all styles. i am excited for when i get to participate in triples, however that might have to wait for omega/alpha.

also, thoughts on megas?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 May 2014 03:27:03 No.19115050 Report

Quoted By: >>19116252 >>19116428

>>19112074
I've not played with a great deal of them, but in my own experience:

Mega-Absol: Feint is amazing. If you can predict when your opponent is going to go defensive, Absol cuts through any attempts at recovery like swiss cheese.

Megazard Y: Drought. Debatably better in triples than any other format. The fact that you can throw chlorophyll monsters in your backup team, solar power, etc, the sky's the limit.

MegaMawile: Suckerpunching in triples is great, but unless you've got a great opening strategy (I like backing 'em up with a fake-out Meowstic and a Sky-drop Aerodactyl) count on 2 or more of your opponents to pack moves that can one-shot poor mawile. when it works, it's amazing though.

Getting any plan to survive contact with the enemy is aces, but prepare for everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 May 2014 04:40:00 No.19116252 Report

Quoted By: >>19116331

>>19115050
T-t-tyler?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 May 2014 04:47:07 No.19116331 Report

Quoted By:

>>19116252
Nope. But if T-t-tyler is an ace absol user, then I may have been gobsmacked by him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 08 May 2014 04:53:35 No.19116428 Report

Quoted By:

>>19115050
Further thoughts:
Mega-Tyranitar is really for funzies only. You might have some luck running a defensive set, since Sandstorm coupled with T-t-t-tar's special defense can make for some jaw-dropping survivals. They're fun to smash Mewtwos with in the scrub-leagues, but not much else.

Mega Garchomp is a handsome devil, really good at killing, but way better at getting killed. Awesome, in fact. A stiff cold breeze will knock chompy out, and in triples, you can pretty much count on someone on the other side packing an ice beam at speed.
However, if you're plucky, I've seen some serious shenanigans with Megachomp running dig, again, with anti-priority support.

Mega-Mamoswine might as well be mega, for all the shit they wreck. Bring a couple of birds or levitate mons and just EQ and shard all day.

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