/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #19386372

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8KiB, 256x384, Pokemon Heart Gold 22_20.png

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 03:45:53 No.19386372 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>19386554 >>19386711

WHY did they have to keep the awful Gen II level curve in HGSS? I know everything after the Elite Four is an afterthought, but come on. Levels are a gameplay abstraction and they already threw out any sense of realism with levels by making every trainer in Kanto have level 40+ Pokemon. So what's the point of keeping wild Pokemons' levels so low?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 03:48:04 No.19386390 Report

Quoted By: >>19386436 >>19386493

Because Gamefreak is a bunch of morons with the little things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 03:53:00 No.19386436 Report

Quoted By: >>19386493

>>19386390

I can forgive the initial design in Gen II just because they didn't have as many games under their belt and they still had no idea what they were doing and were still riding high on feelings of "dude I can't believe how much money we're making" but by Gen IV they were more professional and the games were more polished. I expected more out of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 03:58:36 No.19386484 Report

Quoted By:

They wanted to keep the remake close to the original for all the nostalgiafags. There are actually people who praise HGSS for keeping that horrible level curve because it's more "authentic". It completely ruins what would otherwise be one of the best games in the series, but muh nostalgias.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 03:59:09 No.19386493 Report

Quoted By: >>19386567

>>19386390
>>19386436
The problem with the leveling is that they tried to fit two regions, each with its own gym leaders and wild pokemon, yet sharing the same E4 and champion.

Because Lance is the champion, and if every youngster in Kanto had level 50 rattatas then it wouldn't make sense. Likewise, they wanted to keep the same levels of the wild pokemon as they were in RBY.

This is what they could have done:
a) Not add Kanto to the game
b) Separate the leagues from Kanto and Johto
c) Before you battle Lance as a champion, you'd need the 16 gym badges.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 04:04:19 No.19386554 Report

Quoted By: >>19386575

>>19386372

Grinding at mount silver/Elite 4 just to fight Red's garbage team in the hail really didn't feel worth it at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 04:05:56 No.19386567 Report

Quoted By: >>19386763

>>19386493
>if every youngster in Kanto had level 50 rattatas then it wouldn't make sense

But every trainer in Kanto DOES have level 40+ Pokemon. Levels aren't meant to be an absolute, scalable measure of a Pokemons' power, they just exist for gameplay reasons. If levels were supposed to make sense, then random hikers on the 2nd-to-last route of the game wouldn't have Pokemon capable of sweeping the first four gyms of the region without breaking a sweat. I say they should have just done away with the idea that levels need to be "realistic" and just made all the wild Pokemon in Kanto level 40+.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 04:07:17 No.19386575 Report

Quoted By: >>19386589

>>19386554

>I don't want to grind in a JRPG

This is what helped kill Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 04:08:23 No.19386589 Report

Quoted By: >>19388887

>>19386575
>grinding is a good thing

this is why pokemon's main quest has never been challenging

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 04:17:28 No.19386711 Report

Quoted By: >>19387475

>>19386372
Have you tried SacredGold or StormSilver? They do a pretty good job of fixing the level curve.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 04:21:56 No.19386763 Report

Quoted By: >>19387128 >>19390080

>>19386567
>I say they should have just done away with the idea that levels need to be "realistic" and just made all the wild Pokemon in Kanto level 40+.
Well, son, they didn't and it's here to stay.

In my opinion they did the right thing, considering the knowledge they had at the time. Their only mistake was trying to fit two regions into the same game, with 16 gym leaders, the same E4 and only one champion.

If they had done what you say, and have a more orthodox leveling, then:

Johto trainers - levels from 5 to 45
Johto gyms - levels from 14 to 50

E4 - levels from 50 to 60
Lance - levels from 57 to 63

Kanto trainers - levels from 50 to 60
Kanto gyms - levels from 60 to 70

E4 rematch - levels from 65 to 75
Lance - levels from 75 to 80
Red - levels from 80 to 88

It's insane.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 04:28:39 No.19386811 Report

Quoted By:

grinding with some content in between is alright.

excessive grinding in the post game is fucking awful, not fun, and really not worth my time. Like I said, it's not like Red's team is actually well built or anything other than having stupidly high levels, so you do all that work and you either struggle because you're simply underleveled and don't want to bother with this shit, or you kick his ass because you actually have a decent team and a working brain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 04:54:21 No.19387128 Report

Quoted By:

>>19386763
None of these numbers sound bad. Seems, sane from a gameplay stand point. And really, Oak makes a big deal out of Kanto having strong trainers TO THE NEW CHAMPS FACE, as nonsensical as it sounds, the game itself seems to think Kanto ought to be higher level.

At the very least the fucking wild pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 05:18:40 No.19387475 Report

Quoted By: >>19387620

>>19386711

I haven't, but looking into it, it seems pretty neat. Are the first few routes still so full of shitmon? I kinda disliked how the only Pokemon available before the first gym in GS and HGSS aside from starters were almost entirely regional birds/rodents. Thank god for Gastly, Geodude, and Bellsprout.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Untitled.png, 391KiB, 1018x1594

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 05:29:23 No.19387620 Report

Quoted By: >>19387669

>>19387475
Took a quick screenshot of the encounter documentation for you, judge for yourself

It looks way better, imo. As I recall from my last playthough there are very few repeated Pokemon in the encounter tables so it gets even more diverse after Violet City

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 05:34:26 No.19387669 Report

Quoted By: >>19387745

>>19387620
Where could I find this entire document?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 05:41:29 No.19387745 Report

Quoted By: >>19387805

>>19387669
It should be included with the patch in a separate folder.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 50 FUCKING TIMES.jpg, 14KiB, 480x360

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 05:44:44 No.19387784 Report

Quoted By: >>19387800

>Mfw trying to train a full team in GS/HGSS
>Mfw catching a new member around the 7/8th gym
>Level 25 gravelers only

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 05:46:44 No.19387800 Report

Quoted By:

>>19387784

God, grinding a Dratini you got from the Dragon's Den up to your party's level in HGSS is hell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 05:47:04 No.19387805 Report

Quoted By: >>19388060

>>19387745
Is it available to view anywhere online before I download?

I'm just curious what's available.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 05:51:42 No.19387855 Report

Quoted By: >>19387889 >>19388087

I was just dealing with this today. I eventually said fuck it, and traded my whole team over to Platinum, ground in the postgame areas, and traded them back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 05:54:31 No.19387889 Report

Quoted By:

>>19387855
>ground

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 06:14:05 No.19388060 Report

Quoted By: >>19388064

>>19387805
Download takes two seconds. I promise you before Falkner you'll have tons of options for a varied and powerful team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 06:15:09 No.19388064 Report

Quoted By:

>>19388060
And also you get a free Eevee.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 06:18:40 No.19388087 Report

Quoted By: >>19388740

>>19387855
Th-that's not a past tense of grind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 06:27:12 No.19388140 Report

Quoted By: >>19388156 >>19388674

>>19384331

So does anyone want to post strategies on beating Red without the grind?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 06:29:59 No.19388156 Report

Quoted By: >>19388174

>>19388140
Use a team of four or five throughout the whole game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 06:33:18 No.19388174 Report

Quoted By: >>19388183

>>19388156
And they should be good enough to fight Red's 6 80s?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 06:34:34 No.19388183 Report

Quoted By:

>>19388174
Sure, they should be around level 60, if not more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 06:42:34 No.19388221 Report

Quoted By: >>19391174

Because after Goldenrod you had several choices on where to go, and all those choices had the same levels. Kanto DID try fixing the level curve, but also raised Red's level and the Elite 4's which made things harder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 08:06:57 No.19388674 Report

Quoted By:

>>19388140
Use X items.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 08:17:47 No.19388706 Report

Quoted By:

Leveling has been an issue in nearly every Pokemon game to be fair, from generation one to part way through generation five.

The only games where I felt like the level progression was better was BW2 and XY with exp. share enabled. Those are the only two games where I had a solid end game full level 50-80 (BW2) and 70-100 (XY) team just from regular trainer battles, and occasional wild encounters with relatively minimal grinding.

In pretty much every other game I'd usually have one or two level 60-80 Pokemon and the rest of the party was around level 30 going into the E4. Horribly unbalanced.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 08:18:22 No.19388711 Report

Quoted By:

i recently played soulsilver and I think the most notable level curve was the 8th gym and having to grind for elite 4

really it just depends how you play through the game though

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 08:21:09 No.19388716 Report

Quoted By: >>19389545

Been playing SS recently to snag the dogs and birds for Dex in X and I ended up sending my party to my copy of platinum and grinded in the Battle Frontier. Made it a bit faster, but at least I didnt send over my lvl 90 team from Plat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 08:30:53 No.19388740 Report

Quoted By: >>19392116

>>19388087

Like ground pepper? You know, pepper that has been through the grinder.
What is the past tense of grind then anon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 09:07:27 No.19388887 Report

Quoted By:

>>19386589
>grinding is a bad thing

neo-/vp/ everybody

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 11:41:51 No.19389510 Report

Quoted By: >>19390151

They actually did fix up the Kanto gym leader's levels, if you compare them in HGSS to them in GSC. It's Red who's still a ridiculous grind to beat, to the point where they even buffed his levels. Probably because they want to keep his status as the toughest trainer.

Not going to lie, I've only beat Red "legit" once. Every other time I just trade over a bunch of OP Pokemon and legendaries and just gangbang him because it's really not worth the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 11:52:23 No.19389545 Report

Quoted By:

>>19388716
>Grinded in the Battle Frontier
wut
you don't get experience in Battle Frontier, do you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 12:07:13 No.19389605 Report

Quoted By:

It's not a good sign when you beat the 8th gym leader and are still encountering level 20s on your way to the Elite 4

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO THAT_DAMN_4TH_EMERALD.png, 135KiB, 213x320

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 13:23:30 No.19390007 Report

Quoted By:

>They don't fix the levels in Kanto for HG/SS
>Meanwhile like fucking magic within a 2 year span in Unova, Route 1 is suddenly a death threat for any budding trainer because of all the Level 55-60 Herdier, Watchog and Jigglypuff because "lel it's a postgame route"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 13:31:54 No.19390080 Report

Quoted By:

>>19386763
Those levels seem fine to me.

One of my biggest disappointments with gen 2 was the fact the levels were so low at the elite 4.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 13:44:29 No.19390151 Report

Quoted By: >>19390163

>>19389510
I've only beat HGSS Red once, borrowed HG from a friend for a week and couldn't finish the grind for Red, so I sat there and hyper potioned my mamoswine every other turn.

The hail killed half his pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 13:46:22 No.19390163 Report

Quoted By: >>19390756 >>19390771

>>19390151
Yes, that's my main complaint with Red's battle too.
>Hail
>Five of his Pokémon aren't Ice-type

Buy a lot of Max Revives and Full Restores, make one of your Pokémon a joker Pokémon (one that doesn't actually fight, but who's there for healing teammates), KO his Lapras and you win.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 15:06:47 No.19390756 Report

Quoted By:

>>19390163
>joker
It's called a healer. You know
Healer
heals
healing
A joker is supposed to joke pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 15:08:39 No.19390771 Report

Quoted By:

>>19390163
A Pokemon can't heal his teammates in a single battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 15:11:15 No.19390789 Report

Quoted By:

This is why I love Sacred Gold/Storm Silver. Thank you Drayano, for fixing GF's retardation, its too bad you couldn't do the same for XY.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 15:56:41 No.19391174 Report

Quoted By:

>>19388221
Exploration freedom could have been a issue but I highly appreciated it in those games, the curve starts going a bit wrong even before Goldenrod though. They succeeded in giving freedom and good level curve in RBY/remakes so probably it could have been possible in GSC/remakes too, maybe implementing a badge sensitive level cap for trainers and encounters.
I think the biggest problem is that Mt. Silver/Cerulean Cave wild encounters' level are too low and to grind you have to beat the League multiple times, they could have put levels as high as the CC in the first gen (so 65-70) and also allowing more rematches.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 May 2014 17:49:31 No.19392116 Report

Quoted By:

>>19388740
grinded you little retard.

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