/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #20044522

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Why is this allowed? Wed 16 Jul 2014 11:20:46 No.20044522 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>20044536 >>20044944 >>20045017 >>20045137 >>20045270

Do any of you guys think that smogon is kind of whittling down their game a bit too much? I mean basically now-a-days if a mon' poses ANY significant challenge at all, they're moved into Ubers. It's absolutely ridiculous. Why can't we just practice our teams without so many restrictions?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 11:22:09 No.20044529 Report

Quoted By:

You can. It's called Battle Spot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 11:22:55 No.20044535 Report

Quoted By: >>20044769

Sticky this shit mods = gods

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 11:23:13 No.20044536 Report

Quoted By:

>>20044522
There are other simulators online besides Pokemon Showdown that do not use the restrictions Smogon University uses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 11:57:35 No.20044721 Report

Quoted By: >>20044736 >>20044894 >>20045022

Because a balanced metagame shouldn't have mons that pull the weight two or three times what the average mon in a tier of a similar role can. Blaziken was a set up sweeper that had passive setup and a near perfect STAB combo and coverage. Gengar didn't just break walls and sweep with near perfect STAB and coverage with gimmicks to go along with them, it removed the possibility of walls of any kind from being viable in the tier. Kangaskhan was a band user that could break subs and sashes, use all four of its moves, bulk attacks like they were nothing, and generally ohko anything that didn't resist it. Lucario sat in a great speed tier, has nearly every form of priority with most of it having Adaptability STAB, perfect coverage, and could set up on nearly everything because they would be forced to switch out or risk getting ohko'd. Genesect was like Blaziken, a passive setup sweeper, but it had a ludicrous amount of sets that it could tailor to plug holes in any kind of team, and one of the best typings in the game. Deo-D could set up hazards with absolutely no repercussions, cripple switch ins, and even run sneaky attacking moves to fuck with counters. Deo-S had unparalleled mixed nuking capabilities, with STAB Psycho Boost and a strong Superpower to clean up would-be switch ins. It also had one of the cheesiest dual screens support sets in the game. It was going to get screens up no matter what, and there was nothing you could to to stop it. Swagger was an unskilled troll playstyle that shouldn't have even made it into the game.

The only one I disagree with is the BP chain nerf, which I think is misguided. They should have simply banned Scolipede.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 11:59:59 No.20044736 Report

Quoted By: >>20044829

>>20044721
and your opinion on aegislash being suspected?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:05:40 No.20044769 Report

Quoted By:

>>20044535
What? No, go away. What?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:10:02 No.20044798 Report

Quoted By:

Just fucking play smogon doubles you fags, the format that GF designs around. They ban almost nothing here, and from personal experience, I think it's more fun than singles

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:15:01 No.20044829 Report

Quoted By: >>20044903 >>20044989

>>20044736
I would like to see it banned since it pulls a ton of weight on every team and has no true counter. Even some of the ones I listed have counters that either neuter the mon or make it run something that would make it otherwise less threatening. Azumarill makes Blaziken either drop Baton Pass or Protect to run Thunderpunch, which makes it less threatening. This doesn't diminish how broken it is, it just means that Azumarill is even more desirable than it otherwise should be.

Aegislash can nail every would-be counter depending on the set. Bisharp and Tyranitar go down like a sack of bricks to Sacred Sword, so they can't risk switching in. Mandibuzz goes down to Flash Cannon on LO 3 Attacks and loses to SubTox. Specially defensive Hippowdown get outstalled by SubTox. Chomp can't OHKO. Lando-T can't OHKO. Lando-I doesn't want to switch into a Shadow Ball. Charizard can't switch in unless rocks are off the field since Shadow Ball gibs it on the switch. There's also the fact that if you predict wrong about Aegislash switching out you either get an attack to the face or a pseudo-burn if you're using a contact move. It more than pulls its weight.

I'm not going to act like it can't be killed, because it can be revenge killed. I'm also still not completely convinced that I want it gone yet, even though an OU without it might be significantly better. I haven't gotten the chance to play enough of the suspect ladder so far.

Why is this allowed?

Why is this allowed? Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:24:49 No.20044894 Report

Quoted By: >>20044950 >>20044961 >>20045001 >>20045016 >>20045083

>>20044721

>Blaziken was a set up sweeper that had passive setup and a near perfect STAB combo and coverage

Blaziken leaves itself open for at least 1 turn in order to set up. Almost any mon with the right coverage could take care of it during that time, especially with its' shit defenses. Even if it's banded, there are way more ways to easily take care of that last 1% of health.

>Gengar didn't just break walls and sweep with near perfect STAB and coverage with gimmicks to go along with them, it removed the possibility of walls of any kind from being viable in the tier.

Literally any dark type move could fuck it up. Especially sucker punch, with it's priority. It's basically a glass cannon and is finished if you manage to survive it's first attack.

>Kangaskhan was a band user that could break subs and sashes, use all four of its moves, bulk attacks like they were nothing, and generally ohko anything that didn't resist it.

There are literally so many ways to deal this thing I'm not even going to bother responding.

>Lucario sat in a great speed tier, has nearly every form of priority with most of it having Adaptability STAB, perfect coverage, and could set up on nearly everything because they would be forced to switch out or risk getting ohko'd.

Lucario, like blaziken, has a vast majority of weaknesses that can be taken advantage of. Unless you're stupid enough to let him get a swords dance or two, he can easily be taken out in just one move. He has shit defense, Sp. Defense, and can be outsped. Another glass cannon, basically.

> Genesect was like Blaziken, a passive setup sweeper, but it had a ludicrous amount of sets that it could tailor to plug holes in any kind of team, and one of the best typings in the game.

I agree that his typings were pretty beast, but that bug/steel combo makes him extremely vulnerable to tanks like heatran, charizard, and the like.

Cont...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:25:53 No.20044903 Report

Quoted By: >>20045003

>>20044829

aegislash has never given me a real problem, switch into something bulky and drop an earthquake on it, it dies.

i understand the struggle of something that can basically spam a protect move, but provided you can take it's shadow sneak/sacred sword you are can take it out with little or no hassle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:31:03 No.20044944 Report

Quoted By:

>>20044522
I think they should create another tier. There are so many Pokemon right now that current tiers aren't enough.

Why is this allowed?

Why is this allowed? Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:31:30 No.20044950 Report

Quoted By: >>20045000 >>20045001 >>20045025

>>20044894

>Deo-D could set up hazards with absolutely no repercussions, cripple switch ins, and even run sneaky attacking moves to fuck with counters.

Running a mon with magic bounce is a good way to counter this. Even if you don't have something like that, while setting up his hazards he gives you a good amount of time to buff your own pokemon. Running a dragon dance gyarados, quiver dance volcarona, swords dance scizor, etc.. can easily give you the ability to sweep at least half his team before switching out.

>Deo-S had unparalleled mixed nuking capabilities, with STAB Psycho Boost and a strong Superpower to clean up would-be switch ins.

This is one that I actually am forced to agree with. No matter how you look at it, he had probably the best movesets in the game allowing him great coverage to almost anything, and his speed almost guarantees that he would hit first.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:32:34 No.20044961 Report

Quoted By: >>20045046

>>20044894
>Pokemons have weaknesses
>Kangaskhan, Edgelord Furbait, Gengar and KFC are therefore not broke
No shit, you cant be this stupid. Are all americans like this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:35:37 No.20044989 Report

Quoted By: >>20045010 >>20045028

>>20044829
Malamar counters the fuck out of aegislash, kings shield is a joke, if they dont block you have night slash, it cant get you for super effectives. OU babies just dont appreciate the powerhouse that is malamar

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:36:33 No.20045000 Report

Quoted By: >>20045046

>>20044950
>send out magic bounce user
>they send out bisharp
>pursuit

>set up scizor
>Deoxys uses HP Fire

>Try to DD with Gyarados/ QD with Volcarona
>Deoxys used Taunt

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:36:39 No.20045001 Report

Quoted By: >>20045046

>>20044894
>>20044950
>hurrdurr they have weaknesses therefore they're not broken and meta defining

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:37:08 No.20045003 Report

Quoted By: >>20045049

>>20044903
Name something bulky that can safely switch into Aegislash and can 'drop an earthquake' strong enough to threaten it in Shield-Forme.

Hippowdon will be your answer probably and it'll be wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:38:06 No.20045010 Report

Quoted By:

>>20044989
My nigger.

Fuckin' love Malamar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:39:12 No.20045016 Report

Quoted By:

>>20044894
Ubers players want it gone out there, as in, they want Mega Gengar banned out of the banlist and you are claiming 'literally every dark type' could handle it.

Just think for a second, Mega Gengar is higher ranked then most Arceus (if not all) and on the same tier as Xerneas within Ubers, you want that in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:39:15 No.20045017 Report

Quoted By:

>>20044522
You sound like me 4 years ago.

Just play Spot / VGC.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:39:56 No.20045022 Report

Quoted By:

>>20044721
>Swagger was an unskilled troll playstyle that shouldn't have even made it into the game.

Swagger/psych up was a great way to power up medicham, and it's gone now. Yes, using RNG to win (confusion, parahax etc.) is a dick move, but nintendo will NEVER retcon them and we should just learn to deal with them. inb4 smogon bans paralysis, confusion and removes all moves' random secondary effects (flamethrower's burn) and decreases the power of low accuracy moves , then makes them 100% accurate (85BP 100% accurate focus-no-longer-miss)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:40:09 No.20045025 Report

Quoted By:

>>20044950
Yes you fucking idiot.

Pokemon have weakness. All you did was tell us that aegislash was weak to ground and fire. Deo was weak to dark and other shit was weak to other shit.

Thanks for telling us the type charts. Seriously, if anyone listens to this guy, fuck off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:40:40 No.20045028 Report

Quoted By: >>20045040 >>20045053

>>20044989
>obscure shitmon
>GUYS ITS A COUNTER, I SWEAR

It may counter Aegislash, but it sucks dick everywhere else in the tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:42:40 No.20045040 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045028
It's not even that great of a counter considering it takes more then half from Shadow Ball.

Why is this allowed?

Why is this allowed? Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:43:38 No.20045046 Report

Quoted By: >>20045070 >>20045156 >>20045177 >>20045181 >>20045201

>>20044961
>>20045001

>I'm too stupid to take advantage of these weaknesses, therefore I must dumb the game down for everyone else

>>20045000

>volcarona uses bug buzz
>gyarados uses crunch
>scizor uses knock off

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:43:52 No.20045049 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045003
I duno how well of a counter it is but i have no problem switching in sableye, either to get a burn or taunt, sure i might lose sableye but it did its job..anyway for my team personally aegislash has never been a problem, talonflame i had to add a pokemon to counter it but i dont mind, i had to do this in the begining of x and y for kanghaskan then that got banned then i had to bring a counter for mega lucario..etc
Imo smogon is just being silly now.
Although bans to BP and swagger i liked. Those were just annoying or cheap moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:44:18 No.20045053 Report

Quoted By: >>20045080 >>20045088

>>20045028
>Implying malamar is a shitmon
Seriously, try running it before you knock it, given that more than 30% of OU shitheads run aegislash then malamar emerges in the meta as a good mon for hard countering all those aegislashes, and having some beautiful shut downs on twats who dragon dance the night away.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:48:31 No.20045070 Report

Quoted By: >>20045082 >>20045089

>>20045046

Are you actually retarded?

LOOK AT ME I HAVE EVERY COUNTER FOR EVERYTHING AT THE SAME DAMN TIME THEREFORE NOTHING SHOULD BE BANNED

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:50:44 No.20045080 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045053
But it is
It's NU for a reason and 1 niche, which isn't even good, isn't going to bring it up

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:50:58 No.20045082 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045070
Says the man unwilling to try and will willingly eat smogon's shit up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:51:08 No.20045083 Report

Quoted By: >>20045266

>>20044894
This is the guy you're responding to. Blaziken runs Protect to get a semi-free boost, or it double switches by scaring out something on the field with another mon. There's also the can of worms that is Baton Pass, which allows it to pass it's value onto something else. There's no defending this.

Remember how at the beginning of the gen the only bulky mons in the tier that could be brought onto teams were Mandibuzz and Hippowdon? Support mons can't KO Gengar, and since they can't switch out they're a liability. It also came in on anything that couldn't OHKO it and pick it off.

I'm not going to bother responding to someone that thinks that Rocky Helmet and Sableye are "so many things".

Lucario has ludicrously strong priority, and it's not like it was utilized at the beginning of games. It cleaned up after any checks to its set were low enough to gib with priority or KOed. With hazard support, it could knock down teams with priority with just a tiny bit of support, while also being able to set up and wallbreak anything you put in front of it.

You would need to be terrible to not run things that can support Genesect by taking out Heatran and Charizard. Things have weaknesses, that's what team support is for. This is a reoccurring theme in this post. This doesn't mean they aren't broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:51:49 No.20045088 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045053
Malamar is the definition of a gimmick.

Why is this allowed?

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Why is this allowed? Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:51:56 No.20045089 Report

Quoted By: >>20045148

>>20045070

>not having proper type coverage

I bet you're one of those fags who bases his entire team around one shitty combo

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:57:19 No.20045137 Report

Quoted By:

>>20044522
I don't understand why most people hate the idea of moving mons to Ubers so much. If doing that means that OU teams technically should become more varied instead of being murderer+murderer counter+murderer counter counter and so on, isn't it a good thing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 12:59:08 No.20045148 Report

Quoted By: >>20045165

>>20045089

bitch, are you asking for a battle because we can battle

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:00:12 No.20045156 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045046
>G-G-GUYS ARCEUS IS BALANCED BECAUSE IT'S A NORMAL TYPE AND FIGHTING TYPES SUCH AS MACHOP AND MIENFOO ALWAYS HAVE THE ADVANTAGE!!!!1

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:01:34 No.20045165 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045148
Buddy, you better bring Mega Gengar plus Voltturn or HO. After all "any dark type can beat it"

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:01:38 No.20045166 Report

Quoted By: >>20045182 >>20045189 >>20045206 >>20045251

Is this really a children's game because the way you guys talk about it, it seems much more intense and elaborate than most actual sports. Like listening to analysts break down a basketball game seems less insane than this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:03:01 No.20045177 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045046
>pursuit Bisharp comes in
>instead of taking Pursuit damage, you hack the game to switch Volcarona in, which proceeds to use Bug Buzz before Bisharp can even move

>Deoxys uses HP Fire against your set-up Scizor
>you manage to switch Gyarados in before the move hits, then you love it so much that it attacks before Deoxys and KOs it in one hit

>DDrados tries to do its job, but Deoxys thinks about taunting it
>DDrados uses baton pass with +6 priority to a Scizor that uses Knock Off

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:03:24 No.20045181 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045046
Point 1: You would need to run entire teams of niche counters in a tier where all of these things are unbanned. This isn't SO different than any other tier, except the quality of the top 10 mons eclipses the quality of the lower 40-50. Right now there isn't total parity in the tier, but the bottom 80% is on very close footing with the top 20%.

Bug Buzz has very poor type coverage, so something like Scarfchomp can come in even on a switch predicted Quiver Dance and OHKO with Stone Edge. Lots of other things just don't care about anything Volcarona can do. That doesn't diminish Deoxys-D.

A non-buffed Gyarados Crunch doesn't kill, and Deo-D can outspeed and Twave to cripple you, or Taunt a switch predicted DDance. Lots of other things can come in and laugh at Gyarados.

Knock off isn't even the best choice you dingus. U-Turn would do more damage and would break its Red Card. This is assuming banded of course. You also get into the same situation as Gyarados with Twave and taunted SD on Mega Scizor.

Really, team support is a thing. Nothing takes place in a vacuum.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:03:29 No.20045182 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045166
Anything can seem this complicated when you break it down.
I bet there are Mario speedrun strats that are as complicated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:04:34 No.20045189 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045166
Real life sports dont hold a candle to Pokemon. The only thing that pisses me off are other players from other games.
>HURRRDURRR play lol/dota its amazing and complex pokemon is easy as fuck i could rekt your shit anyday guys pls upvote this

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:06:43 No.20045201 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045046
>>>I'm too stupid to take advantage of these weaknesses, therefore I must dumb the game down for everyone else
Type matchups don't fucking help if the opposing mon just outspeeds and OHKOs you.

Goddamn we fucking know shit like Luke is weak to Fire/Ground/Fighting, Kang is weak to Fighting, etc. That's basic shit that even casuals know. The issue is that these mons are fast and/or have powerful priority to the point where the pool of reliable revenge killers is very, very small.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:07:47 No.20045206 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045166
Going to be honest, turn based games are more intense to me than sports. I can clearly see every single play that's going on, so I don't need someone else to play-by-play it. It's like how long-term war games are intense because the strategies aren't so lightning fast. You can respect your opponent very clearly even if your reflexes or eyes aren't sharp.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:14:14 No.20045251 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045166
For its worth, pokemon is a decent strategy game and the casual players don't tend to get past the type advantages so its often overlooked. Its pretty surprising how far it stretches with shit like natures, IV's and EV's making the difference in a speed tie or hitting that KO, abilities, movesets, held items and all the predictions of what the opponent has in store. It can get pretty deep but what can't usually?

Why is this allowed?

Why is this allowed? Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:15:28 No.20045266 Report

Quoted By: >>20045290 >>20045331 >>20045337

>>20045083

>Blaziken runs Protect to get a semi-free boost, or it double switches by scaring out something on the field with another mon. There's also the can of worms that is Baton Pass, which allows it to pass it's value onto something else.

I am well aware of his use of protect. But it really doesn't matter how fast it is, since with out its' buff it can't sweep worth shit. And don't bring up the ol baton pass switcheroo. You might as well ban smeargle for his shell smash combo then.

>emember how at the beginning of the gen the only bulky mons in the tier that could be brought onto teams were Mandibuzz and Hippowdon? Support mons can't KO Gengar, and since they can't switch out they're a liability. It also came in on anything that couldn't OHKO it and pick it off.

I agree. But you shouldn't really use support mons at all, when dealing with an offensive tank like that. Bisharp, mawile, and anything else running sucker punch can easily deal with it. Besides, if the person running the gengar had any brains at all they would run him timid, leaving only a max Special Attack of 439. Hell, even a shadow ball vaperon could take care of it.

>I'm not going to bother responding to someone that thinks that Rocky Helmet and Sableye are "so many things".

Uhhh you can wall it and stall it pretty easily with mons whimsicott. Not to mention breloom is basically its' worst enemy. Even if you don't want to go the tedious right, it has pretty average stats for a mega so it shouldn't be hard to KO it in a few hits, especially since you can outspeed it pretty easily.

>Lucario has ludicrously strong priority, and it's not like it was utilized at the beginning of games. It cleaned up after any checks to its set were low enough to gib with priority or KOed. With hazard support, it could knock down teams with priority with just a tiny bit of support, while also being able to set up and wallbreak anything you put in front of it.

Alright, you got me there.

cont...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:15:52 No.20045270 Report

Quoted By: >>20045283 >>20045311

>>20044522
All the stuff that's already been banned was either OP to a hilarious extent (Mega Luke/Gengar/Mom, Mega and non-Mega Blaziken, Deo-N,) only a little OP but still cancer for the tier (Genesect, Deo-S/D,) or petty "muh uncompetitive" bullshit whose bans were pointless but justified (Swagger) or just stupid (BP.) Only utter causals whose best argument is ">Tyranitar used pursuit! >Mega Gengar fainted!" would defend their bans, except in the case of BP.

Aegislash is the first suspect where the outcome isn't clear. It's the first one that actually matters because instead of just extracting blatantly OP bullshit from the tier, it's deciding what sort of meta people want. There's good arguments on both sides to not ban or ban it, and many knowledgeable people, Haunter included, flat out say Aegislash is not broken or unhealthy.

You could just ladder and get suspect reqs, you know, if you don't want them to ban it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:16:55 No.20045283 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045270
>would defend their bans
*protest their bans.

Why is this allowed?

Why is this allowed? Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:17:41 No.20045290 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045266
>You would need to be terrible to not run things that can support Genesect by taking out Heatran and Charizard.

This goes both ways, doesn't it? The entire point of a team is about coverage and support.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:19:41 No.20045311 Report

Quoted By: >>20045314

>>20045270
Why bother, a vote is not doing shit when every smogondrone is
going to vote for ban because Haunter told them to. The bans they have done are okay, thought.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:20:53 No.20045314 Report

Quoted By: >>20045362

>>20045311
>every smogondrone is going to vote for ban because Haunter told them to
Haunter literally flat out stated that Aegislash is not broken or unhealthy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:23:53 No.20045331 Report

Quoted By: >>20045354

>>20045266
>Bisharp, mawile, and anything else running sucker punch can easily deal with it
You miss the entire point of why Mega Gengar was banned, and why it was one of the first things to be banned. Shadow Tag was a massive red flag of "this is probably really broken," so it was booted before Mega Mom who was probably a bit more broken. Mega Gengar S-ranked in ubers because it can, basically without fail, remove a sweeper's checks and allow them to mow through a team. If you, in any capacity, don't want OU to be a HO shitfest where it's just titanic offensive threats tearing each other apart and where zero people run stall, there is no way you can actually defend Mega Gengar in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:24:27 No.20045337 Report

Quoted By: >>20045419 >>20045442

>>20045266
>Blaziken
How the hell is Fire/Fighting coverage not worth shit? It has enough attack and speed that after one protect it's High Jump Kicking and FLare Blitzing everything to death that isn't Azumarill/Talonflame/Pinsir. And ignoring the fact that a -sweeper- can pass off its boost to another sweeper is idiotic. Smeargle is a shitmon in everything but movepool, and you need to dedicate a large amount of effort (or at least a team slot) into passing large boosts. There aren't comparable at all. Hell, the way Blaziken passes boosts isn't even comparable to Scolipede.

>Gengar
>shouldn't use support mons
>ignoring the fact that Gengar comes in to trap
opinion discarded

>Kangaskhan
Fire Punch is a very viable attack to run on Kang in singles since Fake Out shenanigans aren't as important as they are in doubles. Also, mega or not, 105/100/100 bulk is not average, it's higher than fucking Hippowdon's defenses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:26:37 No.20045354 Report

Quoted By: >>20045393

>>20045331

Oh snap, I keep on forgetting the shadow tag. Alright, I can see why now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:27:18 No.20045362 Report

Quoted By: >>20045380 >>20045386 >>20045388

>>20045314
My point is that Haunter's opinion is so important to Smogon users that a lot will probably vote to keep it because of that.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:29:08 No.20045380 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045362
>you will never be Haunter

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:29:48 No.20045386 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045362
And then there's also Aldaron who made a pretty good argument to send it to ubers, and is also a pretty influential guy. I wouldn't entirely know, but I'm guessing the people who vote the way Haunter would cause "he's the leader so he knows the most" are probably in a distinct minority.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:29:50 No.20045388 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045362
Eh there are plenty of people that want it gone and give zero shits about haunter's opinion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:30:40 No.20045393 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045354
Kek. I miss Gengar, you could literally use 3 sweepers with the same checks, Gengar, a pivot and something for hazards and top the ladder. It made teambuilding so simple yet fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:32:53 No.20045419 Report

Quoted By: >>20045451 >>20045512 >>20045539

>>20045337
>Blaziken
I sort of want to agree with you, but there are quite a number of counters to blaziken which are keeping most fire types out of OU unless they have exceptional stats. If you're going to use him then he's quite weak to entry hazards and needs to be one of the first pokemon you send out, in this case he becomes very predictable.

>Gengar
Gengar faces the same problems as Wobuffet used to, apparently smogon hates shadowtag and while shadowtag + perish song is cheesy on paper, mega gengar is far too delicate to pull it off properly, and unlike wobbsy you get a turn's warning before he can try and pull it off the first time. Throw in absolute shit typing and the loss of levitate and mega gengar falls apart quickly

Kangaskhan, while certainly stacking boosts very quickly can be countered just by having a single ghost pokemon on the team

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:34:53 No.20045442 Report

Quoted By: >>20046152

>>20045337

>blaziken
Besides the obvious psychic/ground/water weaknesses, even with a 372 max attack if you're running an adamant nature, it can't OHKO a lot of mons, giving room for a massive counter attack.

>kangaskhan

Like I said, wall and stall. Leech seed/toxic can fuck it up big time and with a high defense or sash fire punch couldn't do much. Hell, even quagsire can bring it down with a recover/scald stall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:36:08 No.20045451 Report

Quoted By: >>20045458 >>20045472 >>20045494

>>20045419

>Kangaskhan, while certainly stacking boosts very quickly can be countered just by having a single ghost pokemon on the team

Unless, you know, it's running sucker punch

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:37:00 No.20045458 Report

Quoted By: >>20045494

>>20045451
Or crunch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:38:08 No.20045472 Report

Quoted By: >>20045494

>>20045451
Or crunch. Unless It's Sableye or Cofagrigus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:40:21 No.20045494 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045472
>>20045458
>>20045451
Apologies, I tend to run sableye against it and forgot it had that ability, burn is still a wonderous thing to apply to M Khangaskhan

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:42:23 No.20045512 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045419
>while shadowtag + perish song is cheesy on paper, mega gengar is far too delicate to pull it off properly
That's not even its good set. It beats most walls with Taunt+Wisp alone. It can easily bring down a second mon with Destiny Bond and sanic speed, and the only attack it really needs is Shadowball because it gets great coverage.

>Throw in absolute shit typing and the loss of levitate and mega gengar falls apart quickly
Except against walls it removes, which is its entire job; which includes:
>Chansey
>Clefable
>Quagsire
>Skarmory
>Mega Venusaur
>Ferrothorn
>Chesnaught
>Amoonguss
>Gliscor
>Hippowdon
>Heatran
And more.

Or force-revenge kill with Destiny Bond, which is basically anything under 130 base speed and without Sand Rush/Swift Swim/Scarf/+Spe.

Shadow Tag is a really, really broken ability. The only reason Wobbufett gets away with it is because it has exactly six moves to work with, and Goth gets away with it because it was literally a PU shitmon before getting Shadow Tag.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:45:35 No.20045539 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045419
>Blaziken
You don't use Blaziken early game. Just like any other sweeper, it's used mid-late game to clean up. By that point you'll have stuff like Talonflame and Azumarill off the field. Pretty much only scarfers can outspeed a +1 Blaziken, and at +2 it can outspeed everything in the tier, and easily clean up with High Jump Kicks. Sure, you might clock yourself, but that's no reason to make it seem unreliable. A High Jump Kick coming off of 120 base attack with a LO is nothing to laugh at. Sure it isn't the most absolutely broken thing in the game on paper, but it serves such a vital purpose that it would be dumb not to use it.

>Gengar
You did not just compare Gengar to Wobbuffet. Gengar has 170 Spatk STAB Shadow Balls and Sludge Bombs to pelt at walls. You also don't need to give two shits about defenses since you can pick your battles. Shadow Tag allows so many cases of picking your battles that it's outright banned in UU. Want to know what used Shadow Tag in UU? Gothorita. It doesn't matter how shit its stats were, it could come in on Blissey and PP stall or Calm Mind/Psyshock it to death. It was an annoying little cunt that is missed by no one. Gengar is annoying cunt that can dismantle not only Blissey, but every support mon imaginable. There is no defending this cancer.

>Kangaskhan
>what is Crunch
>what is Scrappy Return
>what is cleric support for burns
>what is switching out to get rid of Mummy

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:52:13 No.20045594 Report

Quoted By: >>20045629

>BP before ban
>everything is a copy of the same team
"this strategy is too simple and effective, we do not want to deal with it"
>BP is restricted to 3
"Neo BP teams are too varied and unpredictable to be allowed"

>few weeks back
"Centralization of the meta was never a bad thing or something unhealthy for the game"
>Aegislash suspect
"This pokemon is overly centralizing the metagame and unhealthy for the game"

This is just ~10 or so nerds forcing rules they want in play on everyone that plays their simulator. The solution to that is simple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 13:56:14 No.20045629 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045594
The BP bans were precautionary, tbh. They wanted to stamp out a cookie cutter team that only one guy was really good at using before other people started getting the hang of it and flooding the top of the ladder with identical teams. Not even similar teams, identical. Like I said earlier, they should have just banned Scolipede.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:05:17 No.20045696 Report

Quoted By: >>20045732 >>20045784 >>20045820

I haven't been to smogon since Diamond and Pearl were released. These recent bans don't seem like something chaos or the net battle management would have allowed. Is he still a frequent in the community? Skarmbliss and ttar over centralized never banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:09:03 No.20045732 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045696
Chaos is still the head honcho. Skarmbliss and Ttar are nothing like the stuff that's been banned this gen. A lot of the things banned this gen are on the level of Soul Dew Lati@s.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:14:52 No.20045784 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045696
power creep happened

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:18:59 No.20045820 Report

Quoted By: >>20045882 >>20046054

>>20045696
ADV and DPPt were not centralized at all. There were top threats, and they were common, but they really weren't centralizing.

Gamefreak went crazy with with the power creep in Gen 5, with the hidden abilities, Drizzle/Drought on non-ubers, Shell Smash, Genies, Muskateers, Gems, etc. XY pushed it up another level with megas, Steel nerf and Knock Off buff, Fairy typed Azumarill, and other things.

Mega Kangaskhan was bulkier than Mew and has 213 effective base attack, as well as an expansive movepool. Mega Luke was a CB Terrakion with Keldeo blah blah blah. Mega Gengar had uber-level Spe and SpA with Shadow Tag. Mega Maw has 260 effective base attack, X-zard is a ridiculously scary Dragon Dancer with high-powered STABs with great coverage, Mega T-Tar and Gyarados are bulky as fuck and are also good Dragon Dancers. And then there's stuff like Mega Gardevoir (tears stall apart,) Mega Medicham (strongest attack in the game, discounted certain choice/weather boosted moves,) and Mega Heracross (bulkier than the other two and still hits really hard.)

Not being "ban happy" and just letting the meta "adapt" isn't an option anymore. There's just way too much power creep.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:26:41 No.20045882 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045820
>DPPt not centralized
>anything that isn't sandstorm related is pure shit: the meta
whatever you say.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO usage stats june 2014.png, 754KiB, 4733x1933

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:44:44 No.20046054 Report

Quoted By: >>20046100 >>20046154 >>20046183

>>20045820

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:48:30 No.20046100 Report

Quoted By: >>20046116 >>20046131 >>20046160

>>20046054

What is this, a picture for ants?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:49:32 No.20046116 Report

Quoted By: >>20046147

>>20046100
Click on it dumbass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:50:39 No.20046131 Report

Quoted By: >>20046147

>>20046100
>ants
>4733x1933

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:52:32 No.20046147 Report

Quoted By: >>20046162 >>20046195

>>20046116
>>20046131

I'm sorry, but I don't like to strain my eyes reading some shitty statistics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:53:25 No.20046152 Report

Quoted By:

>>20045442
>sash

Jesus fucking Christ, how fucking dumb can someone be?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:53:41 No.20046154 Report

Quoted By:

>>20046054
Usage is not centralization.

GSC Snorlax is centralizing because you literally have to use it to have a competitive team
Xerneas in ubers is centralizing because you need multiple checks to it in order to avoid getting completely destroyed by it
Things like DPPt Heatran or ADV Tyranitar are not centralizing; they're just good pokemon that people use a lot
Things like Mega Mom/Luke/Gengar/Blaziken WOULD be centralizing if they were allowed; they'd just run the tier due to their absurd power

Usage is a component of centralization but a lot of it also has to do with how much they restrict team building and how hard they are to handle. Nothing in ADV or DPPt really fits the description.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO gen 4 june 2014.png, 406KiB, 2988x1200

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:54:25 No.20046160 Report

Quoted By:

>>20046100

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:54:31 No.20046162 Report

Quoted By:

>>20046147
Click on the image you retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:57:11 No.20046183 Report

Quoted By:

>>20046054
You're using recent stats for a past gen's meta. Of course the stats will be skewed. There are 645 times as many battles to sample from in Gen 6 OU, so of course there would be more diversity. That doesn't mean during gen 4 things were so stale.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Jul 2014 14:58:08 No.20046195 Report

Quoted By:

>>20046147
Open it in a new tab you retard, 4chan is scaling it to fit your monitor.

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