/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #20230604

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:19:43 No.20230604 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>20230764 >>20230805 >>20231216 >>20232621 >>20233158 >>20233198 >>20236425

ITT: Pokemon that used to be incredibly overpowered but have fallen from grace.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:20:29 No.20230607 Report

Quoted By:

SNORLAXXXXXXX

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:22:37 No.20230619 Report

Quoted By: >>20230662

Terrakion's still good though, isn't it?

Anyways, yeah, Snorlax is a better example. One of the reigning champions of RB and GS, pretty good in RSE, somewhat okay in DPPt, and then effectively killed in BW due to the power creep, a slew of strong Fighting types, and Selfdestruct no longer doing decent damage. Not sure how it fares this Gen but it's probably still not well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:28:50 No.20230662 Report

Quoted By: >>20230749 >>20230867 >>20236663

>>20230619
Terrakion is is extremely good but Aegislash is a full stop to its Choice Band set.

Snorlax is UU right now and just terrible there. It can take fire hits pretty well, but the most threatening fire type in the tier also carries STAB Close Combat which rips it apart. Considering it doesn't have enough attack to be threatening with its coverage moves and normal type is a shitty STAB, it just kind of sits there. Every good wall in UU either has Regenerator, self healing, wish, more bulk, or some other form of support. Snorlax just can't make the cut.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:34:12 No.20230697 Report

Quoted By: >>20230764 >>20231145

Was one of, if not the best mon in OU last gen and its just terrible this gen.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO burglelalelnael.png, 94KiB, 490x460

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:39:39 No.20230741 Report

Quoted By: >>20230749 >>20230750 >>20231297 >>20231503 >>20236587

I never understood why this thing was good. Bad stats, okay movepool, good-ish type. It feels like it and mandibuzz swapped places but are in the same basic situation of having some shitty OU niche.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:41:02 No.20230749 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230662
RU would welcome it.

>>20230741
Pretty simple: weather wars. It walled keldeo and most other rain abusers to hell and back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:41:16 No.20230750 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230741
It was a good special wall in the rain. It also served as a spinblocker (which were more important back then since Defog wasn't a thing) for defensive teams.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO salamence.png, 99KiB, 872x711

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:43:12 No.20230764 Report

Quoted By: >>20230773 >>20230780 >>20230797 >>20231396

>>20230697
Why? I haven't gotten into XY OU but it seems like it could counter fairies decently, at least. Is it just Aegislash and other steels doing everything it does better?

>>20230604
Pic related. The idea that it's BL this gen and is outclassed by Charizard of all things is still strange to me. At least it and Metagross should get a mega to help it soon.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO hydreigon[1].jpg, 36KiB, 300x295

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:43:39 No.20230769 Report

Quoted By: >>20230797 >>20230859 >>20230957 >>20231396 >>20232700 >>20233335 >>20236457

RIP

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:44:49 No.20230773 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230764
that, the fact that electrics are immune to paralysis now, and that steel was nerfed - all of those knock offs flying around really hurt jirachi.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:45:48 No.20230780 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230764
Gained 2 weaknesses, Paraflinch is nerfed with Electrics being unable to be Paralyzed, no perma rain to get rid of Fire weakness.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:46:27 No.20230787 Report

Quoted By: >>20231682 >>20232688

It was never overpowered but GODDAMN

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:48:15 No.20230797 Report

Quoted By: >>20230938

>>20230764
Like Metagross, since they have the same type, they both got hit hard by the Steel nerf. They also both benefited from the weather wars, namely the rain or sand. The former reduces their Fire weaknesses, the latter they are immune to. Jirachi in particular had perfectly accurate Thunder strikes with 60% Paralysis chance.

>>20230764
>>20230769
I'll miss these two. Salamence was good enough to get banned in DPPt, but I hear it was just... okay in BW. But Fairies aren't helping its cause and Megazard X does whatever it does but much better, and it faced competition from Dragonite since BW. Though Dragonite is still good because of its bulk.

As for Hydreigon, RIP indeed. It got a 4x weakness out of nowhere and just doesn't cut it power wise, meanwhile back in BW it was a very powerful threat.

Really praying for Megas for those two.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:48:50 No.20230805 Report

Quoted By: >>20230836

>>20230604
Aegislash and Talonflame alone had made 90% of the Fighting types unviable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:51:04 No.20230836 Report

Quoted By: >>20230890 >>20231073

>>20230805
Aegislash is going to be banned, so there is that.

Talonflame may be right behind.

They won't even suspect the genies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:53:18 No.20230859 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230769
I like it in UU. It was never great in OU anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:54:22 No.20230867 Report

Quoted By: >>20230910

>>20230662
>Aegislash is a full stop to its Choice Band

Does Earthquake not exist?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:55:11 No.20230875 Report

Quoted By:

Just sort of lies there in the middle now.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:56:20 No.20230890 Report

Quoted By: >>20231159

>>20230836
>banning TalonFlame

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 05:58:28 No.20230910 Report

Quoted By: >>20232683

>>20230867
It does, and Terrakion runs it, but that doesn't make it more viable when it wants to CC something but Aegislash laughs as it comes in. Terrakion hardly runs a band now since it needs to be able to switch moves up, whereas before it could slap a band on and CC everything into oblivion. Aegislash has completely changed how Terrakion is run, which is kind of what this thread is about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:01:16 No.20230938 Report

Quoted By: >>20230957 >>20230967

>>20230797
Salamence was still really good in BW, at least on HO teams, in my experience. Moxie or intimidate gave it options and if done right made it to where there wasn't much that could stop it once it got going, especially with Deoxys for screens and rock support.

Is HO still viable this gen? I kinda want to get back into OU, just been playing randoms on showdown so far.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:03:09 No.20230957 Report

Quoted By: >>20231120

>>20230769
>kinda shit in BW OU Kyurem/Kyu-B and Lati@s outclassed it, as did Salamence
>top notch in XY UU
I wholeheartedly think that falling out of OU was the best thing that ever happened to Hydreigon.
>>20230938
HO is obscenely viable. Salamence is just totally outclassed by MC-X.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:04:46 No.20230967 Report

Quoted By: >>20230975 >>20231120

>>20230938
HO is very, very good, but Aegislash makes it a bit trickier to play around. HO dominant while Deoxys-D/S were in the tier, but they're thankfully gone now so It's not nearly as easy to get hazards up and keep them up now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:06:04 No.20230975 Report

Quoted By: >>20230982

>>20230967
HO was dominant*

I swear my typos sometimes make me seem like a neanderthal with a keyboard sometimes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:07:13 No.20230982 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230975
Also my redundant additions. Pardon my grammar meltdowns, I'll shut up now.

But yeah HO is great.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:11:54 No.20231015 Report

Quoted By: >>20231144

ITT: people who have never played the meta game and/or have never made it above rank 1300

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:18:28 No.20231065 Report

Quoted By: >>20231083 >>20231120

The fuck is HO?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:18:44 No.20231072 Report

Quoted By: >>20231110

Kyogre.

Fucking deer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:18:43 No.20231073 Report

Quoted By: >>20231158 >>20231159

>>20230836
Talonflame will never, ever be banned from OU

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:19:51 No.20231083 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231065

Hyper Offense, you ignorant fuckwad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:22:37 No.20231110 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231072
>Kyogre
>not incredibly overpowered
It's still S-Rank in Ubers, and it's about to get an even stronger forme with an all-new signature move to abuse.
What are you smoking, and where can I get some.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:23:14 No.20231116 Report

Quoted By: >>20231746 >>20236420

Fuck Talonflame and Charizard for making my sis look like a joke.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:23:21 No.20231120 Report

Quoted By: >>20231162 >>20231168 >>20231187

>>20230957
>>20230967
Great. I loved playing HO in BW, most fun I had competitively in a while. Don't think my old team will work anymore though. How are Cloyster and Haxorus? I'd imagine Haxorus at least got screwed by fairies and power creep.

>>20231065
Hyper Offense. Basically you fill a team with strong sweepers and one pokemon to help them set up, find an opportunity for any of them and wipe the enemy team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:25:53 No.20231144 Report

Quoted By: >>20233391 >>20234397

>>20231015
>owtheedge.jpg

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:25:52 No.20231145 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230697
He at least has a niche in ubers as a geodeer check

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:26:46 No.20231158 Report

Quoted By: >>20231195 >>20231199 >>20231221 >>20231299

>>20231073
>It has too many moves, it's hard to predict!
>I'm forced to run a counter!
>It kills stall!
>It's too fast and too powerful

Literally the same reasons why Aegislash will be banned.

Smogon is much like a game of epic mafia. Someone FoS's a person and everyone bandwagons.

Only difference is, it's depressing to watch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:26:48 No.20231159 Report

Quoted By: >>20231364

>>20230890
>>20231073
Maybe it won't get looked into now, but mark my words: it WILL get Superpower from ORAS move tutors. Then all of your precious rock types will be helpless against the wrath of smogonbird.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:27:02 No.20231162 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231120
Haxorus is BL, and probably would've been there last gen had they tiered based off of 1695 stats.
Last I checked, Cloyster was UU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:27:23 No.20231168 Report

Quoted By: >>20231208

>>20231120
Cloyster and Hax are both in UU right now. Cloyster is a really big threat that needs to be prepared for, but is otherwise kind of meh. Haxorus is threatening, but not something that breaks the tier. It was reincorporated into UU just last week from being kicked into BL.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:29:32 No.20231187 Report

Quoted By: >>20231210

>>20231120

Cloyster is pretty alright in UU. I don't see it going up in usage any time soon.

Haxorus is BL but UU is either currently testing it or just finished testing it. I haven't looked in a while, but there's no fucking doubt in my mind that it's banned again.

Overall, they're pretty unchanged and that's their biggest fault. The power creeps are real, and they just are outclassed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:30:50 No.20231195 Report

Quoted By: >>20231379

>>20231158
>>It has too many moves, it's hard to predict!
Talonflame has literally 3 viable offensive moves.

>>I'm forced to run a counter!
Literally EVERY rock type or bulky water counters him.

>>It kills stall!
Hell no.

>>It's too fast and too powerful
Hell no, again.

Get the fuck out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:31:42 No.20231199 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231158
Talonflame has just barely enough moves to work
Maybe forced to run stealth rock in your mono Fighting team
The thing doesn't have enough attack to break a physical wall that's not weak to it
It might be fast but it sure as hell isn't too powerful

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:32:50 No.20231208 Report

Quoted By: >>20231220 >>20231221

>>20231168

>base 147 attack and access to Dragon Dance
>Mold Breaker not giving a shit about anything
>not game breaking

Nigga, UU couldn't even handle Staraptor. Hax is gone soon if it hasn't been booted already.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:33:07 No.20231210 Report

Quoted By: >>20231220 >>20231326 >>20237108

>>20231187
Haxorus is UU, they're testing Venomoth right now and there's absolutely no way that fucker is staying. Haxorus was overrated. In theory double dance is extremely powerful, but it almost never gets a chance to buff. And even then, almost everything revenge kills it at +1 speed.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 065Alakazam_Dream.png, 53KiB, 396x341

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:34:11 No.20231216 Report

Quoted By: >>20231234 >>20231235 >>20231496

>>20230604

The physical/special split hit him hard

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Scarf Moximence.jpg, 12KiB, 256x207

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:34:16 No.20231218 Report

Quoted By:

Who Scarf Moximence here?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:34:46 No.20231220 Report

Quoted By: >>20240072

>>20231208
See >>20231210
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-uu-council-tiering-system-info-bl-retest-record.3502698/

Overwhelmingly voted UU. UU this month is nothing like UU from even April.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:34:52 No.20231221 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231158
>implying Aegislash and Talonflame are comparable
Unless I missed something. mixed Talonflame is a stupid idea for stupid people.
>>20231208
It got booted, got tested, and got put back in. And Reckless Staraptor hits way harder than Haxorus with STAB Double-Edge and Brave Bird.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:36:08 No.20231234 Report

Quoted By: >>20231404

>>20231216
I hear it wasn't bad in BW thanks to Magic Guard, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:36:10 No.20231235 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231216
Magic guard + psyshock unhit it hard

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Tauros.gif, 20KiB, 275x300

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:37:31 No.20231244 Report

Quoted By: >>20231259 >>20237186

Absolute beast in Gen 1, never anything afterward.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ani202.gif, 24KiB, 275x300

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:39:39 No.20231257 Report

Quoted By: >>20231590 >>20232196 >>20232326

I used to be uber...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:39:54 No.20231259 Report

Quoted By: >>20231283 >>20231422

>>20231244
ACTUALLY
Jolly, Max Speed and Attack investment and Muscle Band/Life Orb/Choice Band paired with Retaliate make an amazing revenge killer out of this guy. Still countered by protect and ghosts but it's been reliable since I started playing UU for the first time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:42:26 No.20231283 Report

Quoted By: >>20231367

>>20231259
Ambipom can do the exact same thing, except faster.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:44:48 No.20231297 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230741
I put all of its evs into health and defense.
Bold
Cursed Body
@RockyHelmet
Toxic
Recover
Hex
Scald

If I get lucky with a burn, nothing can bring it down. and Hex's BP jumps to 120 under status. I love facing Scarfers and such, when Cursed Body procs. Tears of Fucking Joy.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:45:03 No.20231299 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231158
>

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Dusknoir.jpg, 33KiB, 600x600

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:46:22 No.20231310 Report

Quoted By: >>20231316 >>20231320 >>20231331 >>20231336 >>20231424

What the hell happened to him?

He was on every team in Gen 4, did eviolite dusclops just make him irrelevant?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:47:33 No.20231316 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231310
yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:47:47 No.20231320 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231310
they both co-exist in the same niche of "being garbage"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:48:22 No.20231326 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231210
I don't think I ever used the double dance Haxorus more than a few times. Even with screens I couldn't set him up easily, and felt if I was swords dancing I should have been DDing instead for speed +2. Haxorus mainly filled a niche on my team, and Terrakion was my double dancer since he could pull it off easier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:49:03 No.20231331 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231310
He was actually garbage in gen 4, it was in the same boat as Electivire, a shitmon some how in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:49:24 No.20231336 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231310
Both it and Dusclops are NU this gen, and Dusknoir is better now. Ghost is kind of meh, and a tank with no reliable recovery is kind of worthless. Knock off also destroys it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:50:34 No.20231348 Report

Quoted By: >>20231361 >>20231372 >>20231380

RIPIP

You and Feraligatr had your shining moments

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:52:30 No.20231361 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231348
When was Nidoking overpowered? He was decent with Sheer Force, but never overpowered.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:52:46 No.20231364 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231159

Keep dreaming pussy. And do you think pic related would even fucking bulk at any coverage move Talonshit could possibly get?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:53:18 No.20231367 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231283
B-but muh intimidate and muh bulk...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:53:35 No.20231372 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231348
Nidoking's shining moments were a few months ago. It isn't as good in UU as it once was since the recent drops have made his bad speed even worse, but it's still the best special wallbreaker in the tier.

Also Feraligatr rules NU with an iron fist. Shiftry is the monly mon in the tier that can be compared to it in viability, at least in my opinion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:54:43 No.20231379 Report

Quoted By: >>20231407

>>20231195

I have to say this every time but Tyranitar does not counter Talonflame, it only checks it. It can only switch into one Banded U-Turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:54:45 No.20231380 Report

Quoted By: >>20231394

>>20231348
Nidoking has never been good in the higher tiers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:56:16 No.20231394 Report

Quoted By: >>20231812

>>20231380
It was good in gen 2

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:56:27 No.20231396 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230764
>>20230769
Both are extremely good in VGC, so I wouldnt say they're in particular need of a boost.

At least half of this year's championship teams had one of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:57:03 No.20231404 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231234

It still hits like a truck in XY OU. It's really good to run a Sash Magic Guard revenge killer set on Sand teams. But it's debatable whether or not Magic Guard Clefable fits that niche better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:57:11 No.20231407 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231379
I've always used Heatran as my go-to Talonbane. Rocks and Roar ruin it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:58:55 No.20231422 Report

Quoted By: >>20231651

>>20231259
what're you doing, son? sheer force rock climb, zen headbutt, etc make this thing very hard to switch into. base 40 special attack doesn't look like much, but with the sheer force boost, it still does a respectable amount to things that're weak to it.

0 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 146-172 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

that's not bad at all considering how bulky ferroseed is with the eviolite.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 06:59:04 No.20231424 Report

Quoted By: >>20231469 >>20231636

>>20231310
Completely outclassed by Aegislash.

Even it's pre-evo is better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:03:40 No.20231469 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231424
>Aegislash
No need to look that high. Cofagrigus outclasses Dusknoir without being a Suspect for Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:07:33 No.20231496 Report

Quoted By: >>20231516 >>20231517

>>20231216
Is Mega Alakazam banned?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:08:27 No.20231503 Report

Quoted By: >>20231517

>>20230741
wtf is that even a pokemon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:09:35 No.20231516 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231496
It's banned from UU. Alakazam is great in UU, but M-Alakazam was ridiculously broken. It's mediocre in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:09:40 No.20231517 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231496
from uu? yeah. not from ou though.
>>20231503
i actually think that's a nice design. the female's shitty, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:12:53 No.20231554 Report

Quoted By:

Have Snorlax and Tauros been mentioned? Because goddamn, Tauros and Snorlax.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:13:03 No.20231556 Report

Quoted By:

It was damn good in Gen 2

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:16:51 No.20231590 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231257
You used to be banned from ubers.
Now you're my faithful choicers counter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:21:55 No.20231636 Report

Quoted By: >>20231661 >>20231729

>>20231424
Still against Swordnboard being banned, but I do see that it and Knock Off have relegated virtually every other ghost to UU or lower. Which is funny considering the Steel nerf put Ghost-types in such an awesome place type-wise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:23:52 No.20231651 Report

Quoted By: >>20231680

>>20231422
That's just barely 50% with a move it's 4x weak to. I don't think Special Tauros has any potential when there are better non fire types to get rid of things like Ferroseed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:26:01 No.20231661 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231636
Gengar (Mega or not) is still pretty good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:28:05 No.20231680 Report

Quoted By: >>20231723

>>20231651
it's not pure special; fire blast is solely there to get things that might wall it under normal circumstances; it's like fire blast on a mostly physical garchomp.

if i recall correctly, fire blast is actually standard. ice beam can also be used to deal with gligar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:28:16 No.20231682 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230787
Scrafty in VGC doesn't give two fucks about its fairy weakness

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:33:15 No.20231723 Report

Quoted By: >>20231778

>>20231680
Yeah but Garchomp has base 80 Special attack which is not bad at all for a physical attacker. At base 40 Tauros is still barely accomplishing anything. It's much more worth it to run an actual special attacker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:34:15 No.20231729 Report

Quoted By: >>20232057 >>20233014

>>20231636
Most Ghost-types aren't very good, though. What other Ghost-types could possibly hope to rise in the absence of Aegislash?
>Mismagius
Literally a worse Gengar
>Chandelure
Slow, frail, and never got Shadow Tag
>Cofagrigus
Shuckle syndrome: Spooky edition
The list goes on. Ghost is a great type that's typically seen on shitty Pokemon. It's like Fairy, only not nearly as blatantly broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:37:15 No.20231746 Report

Quoted By: >>20236420

>>20231116
Despite how good it is, sneaky pebbles fucked it a lot last gen.

This gen it has unfortunately lost even more of its standing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:39:42 No.20231778 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231723
yes, but the entire purpose of it is to remove pokemon that would stand in your way, make you hard to switch into, and

0 SpA Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 228 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 156-188 (68.1 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 228 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 161-192 (70.3 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

tauros' fire blast is actually slightly stronger than a scarf garchomp's believe it or not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 07:44:47 No.20231812 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231394
It was mediocre in gen 2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 08:22:53 No.20232057 Report

Quoted By: >>20232124

>>20231729
>Shuckle syndrome: Spooky edition
What is shuckle syndrome?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 08:36:29 No.20232124 Report

Quoted By: >>20232154 >>20236379

>>20232057
i'm assuming good for bulk and nothing else. also knock off fucks it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 08:43:00 No.20232154 Report

Quoted By: >>20232166

>>20232124
They both also have very high defenses but very low HP as well as lack of standard recovery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 08:45:17 No.20232166 Report

Quoted By: >>20232171 >>20232173

>>20232154
That's what I was getting at. Low HP. high defenses, no reliable recovery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 08:46:30 No.20232171 Report

Quoted By:

>>20232166
Rest/Sleep Talk/ Shell Smash/ Infestation

this has won me more than I am proud to admit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 08:46:39 No.20232173 Report

Quoted By: >>20232191

>>20232166
You were saying low HP. high defenses, no reliable recovery?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 08:49:44 No.20232191 Report

Quoted By:

>>20232173
Yeah. Shuckle is obviously the most extreme case.
Others include Dusclops/Dusknoir, Bastiodon, and Probopass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 08:51:41 No.20232196 Report

Quoted By: >>20232209

>>20231257
What moves would Wobbuffet need to be great again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 08:55:56 No.20232209 Report

Quoted By: >>20232215

>>20232196
recover. not being psychic would also be great.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 08:57:18 No.20232215 Report

Quoted By:

>>20232209
Also Metal Burst

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:13:16 No.20232326 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231257
Many forget that Wobbuffet was stuck into Ubers, because it could create an endless battle situation, though.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1405158967032.jpg, 107KiB, 677x652

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:16:55 No.20232337 Report

Quoted By: >>20232348 >>20236511

Excluding mega Becuase that things Broken stay in Uber mega Luke

But normal lucario a good example of being great past gen but has lost its use as of 6th gen but its a good in UU so its not so bad
Plus Electivire a good mention

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:19:52 No.20232348 Report

Quoted By: >>20232362

>>20232337
Electivire was never good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:22:16 No.20232362 Report

Quoted By: >>20232376 >>20232463

>>20232348
But in 4th gen he was OU then went to Ru next gen
But yeah electivire pretty bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:24:15 No.20232376 Report

Quoted By: >>20232392 >>20232617

>>20232362
It was OU by usage alone. No one thought Electivire was good, even in gen 4.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:29:22 No.20232392 Report

Quoted By: >>20232617

>>20232376
i used Electivire in this gen RU and it was decent, it helped me against that piece of shit of Yanmega

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO starmie.gif, 160KiB, 62x61

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:35:02 No.20232455 Report

Quoted By: >>20232466 >>20232468

Couldn't survive 6 gens in OU like Gengar. Was it the end of weather wars, or better spinners/Greninja?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:35:40 No.20232463 Report

Quoted By:

>>20232362
4th gen OU list had some flaws since there were no weighted stats, no decent player ever ever used things like electivire, dusknoir, ninjask or umbreon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:36:01 No.20232466 Report

Quoted By:

>>20232455
It was being a Psychic-type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:36:46 No.20232468 Report

Quoted By: >>20232479

>>20232455
Don't worry, from the looks of things Gengar will be joining Starmie soon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:38:23 No.20232479 Report

Quoted By: >>20232509

>>20232468
Gengar is going to join the bottom rung of UU? Nah. Gengar will be a top threat in UU if it falls, unlike Starmie which is a piece of shit in every way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:42:20 No.20232509 Report

Quoted By: >>20232572

>>20232479
>which is a piece of shit in every way

just like every pokemon that is not OU right? :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:42:46 No.20232515 Report

Quoted By:

Bronzong, god tier mon in gen 4 due to rocks and explosion, became bad in gen 5 and even worse in 6.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:52:39 No.20232572 Report

Quoted By: >>20232611 >>20232903

>>20232509
Don't try to pull the OU favoritism card on me. UU is my main tier. People on vp constantly try to use Starmie as their spinner of choice when going into UU because it used to be good. It's not good anymore. UU is extremely hostile to it since its an offensive spinner with mediocre offenses and a coverage set that used to be good, but doesn't cut it anymore. For a spinner you want lots of bulk and coverage that scares away potential spinblockers. Mega Blastoise has these traits while Starmie doesn't. On teams with other megas, Donphan or Forretress is usually better.

Offensively Starmie is on the bottom rung of mediocre. It has good speed, but in a tier where most threats outspeed it with scarves or take any one hit it can dish out and OHKO back makes it worthless. Sash Alakazam is better as a Psychic type, and nearly every Water mon in the tier is better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:01:23 No.20232611 Report

Quoted By: >>20232658

>>20232572
hilarious, i've seen more Starmie in UU than Donphan and Forretress

>Mega Blastoise has these traits while Starmie doesn't

you know what M-Blastoise doesn't have, a form recovery

and my point stand still OU,UU or any other tier favoritism is always favoritism

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:03:41 No.20232617 Report

Quoted By: >>20232625 >>20232696

>>20232376
>>20232392
Why don't people use Vital Spirit Electivire/Magmortar as anti-leads or something? They seem viable. I was playing around with the Electivire in OU and it put in a lot of work, essentially rendering any opposing Smeargle useless.

Also seems like they'd be good in VGC.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:05:40 No.20232621 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230604
Alakazam

Gen 1: He was M. Bison with a lot of Special

Gen 6: Just another Mega-of-the-day, outclassed by it's standard form with a Life Orb

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Magmortar_and_Electivire_by_Dark (...).jpg, 34KiB, 530x291

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:06:20 No.20232625 Report

Quoted By: >>20232680

>>20232617
They're my two favorite Pokemon, so I have tried that. Haven't had a lot of luck. Too slow, and with Electivire especially, too many things can scare them away. Good against Smeargle like you said, but not much else.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Starmie.png, 24KiB, 343x858

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:10:05 No.20232658 Report

Quoted By: >>20232667 >>20232829 >>20233023

>>20232611
You're making yourself look really, really bad. Starmie has very low usage compared to Donphan and Forretress.

Starmie is 51st.
Blastoise, Starmie's direct competition for a slot, is 1st.
Donphan is 13th.
Forretress is 15th.
http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-06/moveset/uu-1630.0.txt

So no, you probably haven't seen more Starmie. If you have, you haven't played many games, or are low on the ladder since this is 1630 stats. I'll also include a picture of that reliable recovery and how popular it is on Starmie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:11:47 No.20232667 Report

Quoted By: >>20232829

>>20232658
Oops posted the wrong link. Here's a link to just the usage stats instead of set usage.

http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-06/uu-1630.0.txt

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:15:41 No.20232680 Report

Quoted By:

>>20232625
Yeah, regarding speed, I thought about Electabuzz at first since it's base 105, but then built Electivire as Naughty with Sticky Web and Trick Room options (running bulky mons like Diancie and Vaporeon with it). Volt Switch and Ice Punch allowed it to stay on its feet most games and even sweep late-game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:17:27 No.20232683 Report

Quoted By: >>20232706 >>20234251

>>20230910
>but that doesn't make it more viable when it wants to CC something but Aegislash laughs as it comes in

Do people not assume their opponent is going to switch to Aegislash if a Close Combat is coming? If you're in a position to CC, why not EQ instead?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:20:09 No.20232688 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230787
Eh, I still sweep Ubers with that nigga.

And what the fuck is wrong with the CAPTCHA jesus fucking christ

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:21:13 No.20232696 Report

Quoted By:

>>20232617
People don't use them as anti-leads because they can't actually handle any of the common leads in any tier that isn't NU, and even there they both have problems and shouldn't be used as general leads.

The only common (http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-06/leads/ou-1695.0.txt) sleep lead is Breloom, which spit holes in Electivire with Bullet seed while not giving a shit about anything Elec can do back since it has a sash.

252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (4 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Electivire: 336-400 (115 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So it breaks Elec's sash if it carries one and very likely kills.

Magmortar is even worse, since it's in the same situation, but Breloom kills with Rock Tomb instead.

252 Atk Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 272-322 (93.1 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Keep in mind Electivire and Magmortar are total dead weight on every type of team in OU. Sure they break Breloom's Sash, but they also go down in the process. Breloom just wants to eliminate or cripple one mon, so while you wasted a team slot, the guy with the Breloom now has a 1 HP Breloom to sac later.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:22:17 No.20232700 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230769
That's what you get for not playing doubles or VGC.

Hydreigon is considered the most misunderstood behemoth and important member of most top ranked players in the VGC. He has very low usage but you find most top cutting players all use it because the thing is powerful as hell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:23:02 No.20232706 Report

Quoted By: >>20232734

>>20232683
That's why I noted that people do run EQ. I'm not saying Aegislash is a hard counter to ALL FORMS OF TERRAKION EVER, I'm just saying that Terrakion's most powerful set from last gen is now less than stellar because of Aegislash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:29:28 No.20232734 Report

Quoted By: >>20232775

>>20232706
But you said it's because Aegislash can come in on Close Combat. If it's that obvious, just EQ instead. I don't see how that's so hard, or how that makes CB Terrakion any worse. It actually makes it better, IMO, given how often Aegislash is used, since Terrakion can severely dent it using basic prediction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:40:22 No.20232775 Report

Quoted By: >>20232818

>>20232734
Sometimes you can't using EQ over CC. Maybe you want to take the chance to CC Rotom-W or Ferrothorn, or pop an Excadrill or Heatran's Air Ballon. You stand to gain a lot by CCing any of these, but EQ would be a terrible option or would simply not affect them. If you take the risk and CC and Aegislash comes in, it came in for free and now it can hit you switch in with a free shadow ball.

This really just illustrates how choice items really aren't great in OU right now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:53:04 No.20232818 Report

Quoted By: >>20232850 >>20240611

>>20232775
But that's the exact same risk you ALWAYS ran using Choice items. In Terrakions case, replace Aegislash in this scenario with Gengar in Gen 5.

If anything, what it actually shows is that Pokémon players have been getting worse and that XY really brought in the scrubs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 10:55:42 No.20232829 Report

Quoted By: >>20232878

>>20232658
>>20232667
yeah you're right i don't play UU as much as i play other tiers like RU or NU i was just telling my personal experience

>You're making yourself look really, really bad
yeah, just like a certain someone who said running Bulky M-Blastoise as a rapid spinned is better than running Starmie with the same set

also Donphan and Forretress works differently than Starmie, most people just use them as set up leads.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:00:29 No.20232850 Report

Quoted By:

>>20232818
The only reason I cited Aegislash being a full stop to Terrakion being an important part of why it doesn't run band anymore is only because Aegislash has such high usage. If you think this is an "Aegislash r broken ban plz" argument, it's not. Just like how Infernape being on a large number of teams in UU pushes up the usage of Slowbro, Aegislash having a ton of usage in OU pushes down usage of things whose STABs are resisted by it.

Remember, this was a thread about mons that fell out of usage with Terrakion in the OP. I pointed out why its killer old set fell out of favor. I get why you're arguing, I just don't see why you're arguing at a person that isn't against any of your points.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:07:57 No.20232878 Report

Quoted By: >>20232959

>>20232829
But bulky Mega Blastoise completely outmodes Starmie. Blastoise has more natural bulk, higher offensive presence thanks to its popular 252 HP 252 Spa Modest set and Mega Launcher, and better coverage for the tier in Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse. Its bulk means it can come in and spin multiple times per game. Starmie can maybe spin once (while losing HP with LO damage) before getting easily killed by anything that outspeeds it (read: every scarfer and most sweepers). No one in their right mind would ever choose Starmie over Blastoise if they knew the tier.

You're also more likely to see Infernape/Victini/Mienshao come out first than you are to see Donphan/Forretress as leads. Even if they do lead, they're both very bulky, which means they can get rocks up and hop out, ready to spin later when its necessary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:13:43 No.20232903 Report

Quoted By: >>20232959 >>20232976

>>20232572
Like I'm going to waste my mega on a spinner.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:23:46 No.20232959 Report

Quoted By: >>20233023

>>20232878
I don't think the presence of pokemon like Infernape Darmanitan Victini etc. would make you think "better lead with my Forretress", Donphan is kinda good just because of that Sturdy, now let's imagine a situation where we both lead with Starmie and Donphan, would really stay in and set up the rocks knowing that i can easily spin them away and even if you switch that's just a free scald for me.

>bulky
>LO
yeah, that's definitely the set i'd like to use on a bulky mon

also there's this >>20232903

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:28:07 No.20232976 Report

Quoted By: >>20233015 >>20233023

>>20232903
On defensive teams in UU you definitely will want Mega Blastoise. You lose almost nothing by using it instead of other megas. Mega Aerodactyl is the only other mega that comes close to being as useful in UU on most teams, and even that doesn't fit on every team archetype. The other megas in the tier fill their niches, but they're usually outclassed by something else. Houndoom has competition in Hydreigon and all of the physical fire types (since special fire is kind of shit in UU), Ampharos is only good on bulky offense teams as a defensive pivot with a slow volt switch (though it fills that role very well), Absol is a strictly worse Honchkrow (since will o wisp isn't really a thing down there thanks to the phsycial fire types), and Aggron is just bad.

So you have a choice: Mega Blastoise, the best spinner in the tier, or Mega Aerodactyl, one of the best anti-leads and lategame cleaners in the tier. Considering Blastoise is the #1 most used mon in UU, lots of people choose Blastoise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:34:39 No.20233014 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231729
>Cofagrigus
Put 252 into HP and spread the rest of your EVs into defenses, get off a Wisp, set up a CM, and sweep. Knock off doesn't fuck it over too bad because it takes physical hits like a monster (especially after a burn).

Only problem is the Protect/CM/WoW/Shadow Ball
Set gets walled by Dark types and it can't touch Normal types. Anything else gets destroyed though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:34:39 No.20233015 Report

Quoted By: >>20233056 >>20233085

>>20232976
>the best spinner in the tier

sure, tell your blastoise to spin away my Galvantula's Sticky Web...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:36:33 No.20233023 Report

Quoted By: >>20233056 >>20233141

>>20232959
Am I not being clear enough or is english not your first language? I said the most common leads are U turn scouts. I clearly said that you're more likely to see a scout than you are to see a Donphan/Forry hazard lead. I was refuting your point about Donphan/Forry being used primarily as leads, because they aren't. They're common, but you're far better off leading with a scout.

And seriously, look at my Starmie set usage picture in >>20232658. Starmie is used as an offensive spinner. Life Orb is the most common item by a landslide. My point is that even as an offensive spinner with a completely different spread, Blastoise does more damage and has better coverage than Starmie, this making Starmie's only niche pointless. And even with Recover (which is rarely used) and Leftovers, Starmie has no staying power against common threats in the tier PLUS it sacrifices the ability to deal significant damage when you need it to. It would be a waste of a slot.

Your last point is covered in >>20232976.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:41:52 No.20233056 Report

Quoted By: >>20233141 >>20233145

>>20233023
A lot of people just hate Blastoise for no real reason, bro. Just look at this >>20233015 faggot for example.

Possibly Charizard kids who don't want to accept that Blastoise is a valid megamon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:46:47 No.20233085 Report

Quoted By: >>20233105

>>20233015
This is an easy one. I usually lead with my scarfer of choice (usually Victini or Infernape), which can bring Galvantula down to its sash. If you try to go on the offensive instead of setting Sticky Web up, you don't get Sticky Web up that battle. If you do get knocked down to your sash and set up sticky web, you either switch out and save Galvantula to die to SR damage later, or you let it die right there. Sticky Web usually isn't so much of a problem for most prepared teams, at least not immediately. I can switch out into my hazard setter to set up SR and not be hindered much since most hazard setters are extremely slow (see: Swampert). I usually run balance anyway so speed is only a problem for my scarfer. Skip ahead a few turns and Blastoise comes in on one of the many types of attacks it can bulk. It can spin on nearly anything so Sticky Web is gone.

Now here's the problem for you: You need to get SR off the field or else you won't be able to set SW back up. I'm probably not going to let you do this, and even if you do get rocks off the field, Galvantula doesn't have its sash anymore and goes down to one hit.

This has been a long winded way of saying Galvantula and Blastoise will almost never be on the field at the same time. Galvantula dies so fucking easily, while Blastoise doesn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:49:57 No.20233105 Report

Quoted By:

>>20233085
Oh and this is completely ignoring the fact that Galvantula can't OHKO Mega Blastoise with Thunder anyway. The 252 HP 252 Spatk one.

252 SpA Galvantula Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 260-308 (71.8 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:54:48 No.20233141 Report

Quoted By: >>20233182

>>20233023
>it would be waste of a slot

just like M-Blastoise if used as a rapid spinner, sure it has more bulk to take a couple of hits and spins away, but does it really make a difference once your mega slots it's gonna be wasted because it can't use any recovery?

whatever dude, do what you want, you keep using Blastoise the way you like and i'll keep using Starmie the way i like.

>>20233056
you, you clearly haven't read a single thing about this whole conversation have you? stupid retard...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:55:12 No.20233145 Report

Quoted By: >>20233170

>>20233056
Honestly, I think it's because people on vp know jack shit about UU. If they do try UU, they usually don't get far on the ladder because they use "muh bros" or whatever outdated team they heard about being good in UU months ago.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:57:24 No.20233158 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230604
>scarf terrakion outspeeds entire tier
>implying that anything can take a close combat well

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 11:59:40 No.20233170 Report

Quoted By: >>20233185 >>20233228

>>20233145
I really don't like the state of UU right now. There's so many annoyingly bulky mons like Blissey, Umbreon, and Florges and there's a ton of 2strong OU rejects flooding the tier. There's just a huge gap in the tier that lower mons in the tier are kind of rendered useless.

I think RU is perfect right now though. Nothing is too strong to sweep consistently, nothing too bulky, and pretty much the entire tier can be used effectively under the right team and with smart play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:02:24 No.20233182 Report

Quoted By: >>20233273

>>20233141
Don't try to squirrel your way out of this. You obviously know jack shit about UU and are trying to act like I don't either by acting like Mega Blastoise is bad as a spinner. Viability rankings, usage rankings, set usage, and actual experience in the tier all say otherwise. You're arguing with a person that actually plays UU. What you're saying is like trying to tell me that Chesnaught is a better defensive wall than Slowbro. Anyone that has an ounce of experience in the tier can tell that you're flat out wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:02:54 No.20233185 Report

Quoted By:

>>20233170
UU was always a mess.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO showdown usage stats june 2014.png, 754KiB, 4733x1933

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:05:08 No.20233198 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230604

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:11:23 No.20233228 Report

Quoted By: >>20233244

>>20233170
Eh, UU is on the whole a bulkier tier, but there are still well over 40 mons that can be effective. Lots of things from lower tiers get passed over even though they can fill holes in teams extremely well. Stuff like Aromatisse, Alomomola, Amoonguss, Sharpedo and even fucking Granbull are very high on the viability ranks, but aren't UU by usage. I personally feel like the tier is perfect how it is since it has a good mix of semistall and bulky offense whereas OU has HO or fullstall and not a lot in between.

I really wish I could get into RU, but I simply dislike the designs of most of the staple mons down there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:13:48 No.20233244 Report

Quoted By: >>20233291

>>20233228
The thing about RU is there really are no "staple" mons in RU. You'll see things like Exploud and Doublade a lot, but you never feel like you see the same thing too often. Its incredible the amount of parity that one tier has.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:20:09 No.20233273 Report

Quoted By: >>20233291

>>20233182
>you are trying to tell me that this thing is inferior and instead this other thing is the best thing in the world!!1!

nah, i was just trying to defend a pokemon that i like to use and that for me, it works, yeah i get it Starmie it's not a top tier mon but it does its job just fine, at least for me, andi won't use M-Blastoise as my spinner because i already have M-Ampharos.

Quite funny your comparison between two pokemon that are from two completely different tiers

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO holy fucking shit dude.png, 74KiB, 695x110

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:24:49 No.20233291 Report

Quoted By: >>20233308 >>20233333

>>20233273
You. Cannot. Be. This. Dumb.

Agility Ampharos?

>>20233244
I hate to be a dick, but that's statistically wrong. By staple mons I mean stuff that's very commonly used.

| 1 | Yanmega | 24.77997% | 3406 | 19.717% | 2741 | 19.298% |
| 2 | Rhyperior | 21.98298% | 2183 | 12.637% | 1909 | 13.440% |
| 3 | Doublade | 17.53400% | 1762 | 10.200% | 1532 | 10.786% |
| 4 | Braviary | 16.09029% | 1972 | 11.416% | 1551 | 10.920% |
| 5 | Amoonguss | 15.21280% | 2163 | 12.522% | 1848 | 13.011% |
| 6 | Hitmonlee | 14.96453% | 2511 | 14.536% | 1999 | 14.074% |
| 7 | Delphox | 14.64359% | 2140 | 12.389% | 1717 | 12.088% |
| 8 | Zoroark | 14.42892% | 2108 | 12.203% | 1031 | 7.259% |
| 9 | Shuckle | 13.74513% | 1465 | 8.481% | 1389 | 9.779% |
| 10 | Sharpedo | 13.41012% | 2300 | 13.315% | 1794 | 12.631% |

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:27:46 No.20233308 Report

Quoted By: >>20233326

>>20233291
Actually, I should probably retract that. Shuckle being gone now probably loosened up the usage. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since I don't have more recent usage info.

Also, my point about staple mons is the stuff in the tier itself. I don't have many favorites in RU. Most of the things I really like are UU or low NU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:31:44 No.20233326 Report

Quoted By:

>>20233308
Shuckle getting canned did wonders. And those are the basic ranking statistics, Yanmega isn't seen nearly as much higher in the tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:32:51 No.20233333 Report

Quoted By: >>20233381

>>20233291
wait what, i remember Chesnaught being RU, oh well fuck i'm really retarded

No, i've tried using Agility Ampharos, it's situational and even with one Agility up with 45 spe it's not going to outspeed many things

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:33:38 No.20233335 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230769
>252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 339-399 (96.5 - 113.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
>252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 294-348 (90.7 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
It's a doubles monster.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1400671850369.png, 68KiB, 400x400

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:41:01 No.20233381 Report

Quoted By:

>>20233333
Well at least you aren't using Agility Ampharos. TO be honest I was going to laugh at you if you did because it would fit my mental picture really well of someone that knows jack shit about UU.

I've been really adamant about you being wrong mainly because I don't like seeing people spread poor arguments and blatant misinformation about the worth of a Pokemon in the tier I love to play. Use whatever you want and be happy with it, just understand that there is always going to be that guy ready to criticize you on objective worth. I'm an RMT nut and I will always advise a person to look for the best alternatives that fit the metagame and their team, and Starmie is one of those mons I have to tell people to drop along with Electivire and Sceptile. And check those repeating digits.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 12:42:34 No.20233391 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231144
>edge
There goes that buzzword again
Nothing he said was edgy you fucking moron

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 15:05:16 No.20234251 Report

Quoted By:

>>20232683

Because EQ is just as bad of a move to lock yourself into or worse if they don't switch or survive it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 15:19:45 No.20234355 Report

Quoted By: >>20234360 >>20234558 >>20234593

Speaking of all this, I wonder what the metagame for gen1 was like. The tourneys, the rules, the tiers, I mean, it'd be cool to see what it was like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 15:20:45 No.20234360 Report

Quoted By:

>>20234355
basement nerds reunion

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 15:25:30 No.20234397 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231144
>edge
Learned a new word and just had to use it, didn't you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 15:45:44 No.20234558 Report

Quoted By: >>20234568

>>20234355

From what I've read on it, the mets seems like it was pretty much made after first gen actually came to a close. The vast majority of the information on game mechanics and pokemon usage statistics just couldn't have been compiled and distributed back in the 90s with crappy early internet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 15:46:48 No.20234568 Report

Quoted By:

>>20234558

*meta

Don't know where that typo came from, I don't even really like the Mets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 15:49:36 No.20234593 Report

Quoted By:

>>20234355

Earthquake and Psychic everything.

Terra !4dLvBoNE..

Terra !4dLvBoNE.. Tue 29 Jul 2014 18:50:01 No.20236379 Report

Quoted By: >>20236406

>>20232124
Im not sure if Cofa could survive Bisharp's knock off, but wouldn't it let you get a free Defog since Defiant is gone? And Cofa could easily get a burn or infestation off on Bisharp; the former to cripple its offense with or without Defiant, the latter to prevent switching to get rid of Mummy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 18:52:27 No.20236406 Report

Quoted By: >>20236532

>>20236379
Mummy stays on the Pokemon for the rest of the battle. Also back to Sage Terra :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 18:53:54 No.20236420 Report

Quoted By: >>20236436

>>20231116
>>20231746
Weather nerf hurt it badly, too. Volcarona in the Sun was an unstoppable force.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO over 1000 hours in ms pizza.png, 2MiB, 1347x781

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 18:54:22 No.20236425 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230604

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 18:56:10 No.20236436 Report

Quoted By: >>20236448

>>20236420
But now everything in OU carries rock coverage to stop Smogonbird and Charizard and Volcarona is the one who gets fucked over in the end for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 18:57:09 No.20236448 Report

Quoted By:

>>20236436
Yeah, it's a shame. Too good for UU but mediocre in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 18:58:22 No.20236457 Report

Quoted By: >>20238417

>>20230769
why does nobody run focus scope with draco on it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 19:05:56 No.20236511 Report

Quoted By: >>20236541

>>20232337
What's sad is that Mega Luke is too broken for OU and yet complete garbage in Ubers.

Terra !4dLvBoNE..

Terra !4dLvBoNE.. Tue 29 Jul 2014 19:07:27 No.20236532 Report

Quoted By: >>20236636

>>20236406
Wait Mummy is permanent? Even if you switch?

I know shit like Entruantment doesnt work in meta because it goes away after a switch like any stat changes

>implying Im not bored of sage
>implying I only tripped there
>implying this trip isnt almost 4 years old

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 19:08:38 No.20236541 Report

Quoted By: >>20236553

>>20236511
Except its a perfect Xerneas counter because Xerneas cant afford to buff against it and cant outspeed it because of Priority, and physical Lucarios ignore its Sp. Def increase too, meaning its totally helpless against Bullet Punch, and cant stop Lucario from buffing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 19:10:06 No.20236553 Report

Quoted By: >>20236575

>>20236541
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 220-260 (48.2 - 57%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Lucario: 306-361 (108.8 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
are you retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 19:12:32 No.20236575 Report

Quoted By: >>20236616

>>20236553
If Xerneas doesn't go for the Geomancy, it gets an Iron Head to the face or Lucario Swords Dances.

If it does, then its still going to eat Bullet Punch next turn anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 19:13:31 No.20236587 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230741

>Jellicent
>Bad stats

Listen just because smogon labels it not over used doesnt mean it has shitty stats cunt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 19:14:55 No.20236616 Report

Quoted By:

>>20236575
That makes it a check you dildo, and it can only check it if it hasn't geod yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 19:16:37 No.20236636 Report

Quoted By:

>>20236532
I looked it up and its supposed to reset on switch, but I think Showdown's glitched because it stays until the end of the battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 19:19:37 No.20236663 Report

Quoted By:

>>20230662
>every good wall in UU has Regenerator
I fucking hate this shit, every fucking uu team I face has 2 or 3 regenerators, a wish passer, and a heal bell. Takes so fucking long to make headway.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1376644525554.png, 65KiB, 365x264

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 20:05:44 No.20237108 Report

Quoted By: >>20237114 >>20237206

>>20231210
>mfw upon finding out that Venomoth is BL

From what I see it's basically doing exactly the same as Vivillon. Why is it so high up though?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 20:06:14 No.20237114 Report

Quoted By:

>>20237108
Baton Pass

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 20:12:55 No.20237186 Report

Quoted By:

>>20231244
>2014
>not running special tauros

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 20:14:44 No.20237206 Report

Quoted By:

>>20237108
QuiverPass+Sleep Powder is fucking obnoxious

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 21:58:37 No.20238417 Report

Quoted By:

>>20236457
I run it
It's good in singles

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 22:16:18 No.20238616 Report

Quoted By:

sage thread pls

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Jul 2014 23:28:54 No.20239486 Report

Quoted By:

Where is Tornadus-t nowadays? It used to be uber when i played.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Jul 2014 00:04:38 No.20240072 Report

Quoted By: >>20240079

>>20231220
Jesus Christ. This gen's UU is about the strength of last gen' OU.

And people deny there's a power creep?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Jul 2014 00:05:26 No.20240079 Report

Quoted By:

>>20240072
I don't think anyone's denying there's a power creep.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Jul 2014 00:35:48 No.20240546 Report

Quoted By: >>20240611

Aegislash is immune to Terrakion's main move, and half the tier is immune to Terrakion's coverage move. This is why Aegislash absolutely shat on the CB set, in BW you could spam CC and use Stone Edge for Ghost-types, now you need Earthquake and be a free switch-in to any genie/Skarm/Gengar/Gyarados/etc

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Jul 2014 00:38:29 No.20240611 Report

Quoted By:

>>20240546
Fuck, forgot to quote

>>20232818

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Jul 2014 01:11:01 No.20241069 Report

Quoted By: >>20244344 >>20244355

metagame is shit. just play pokemon and use your aegislash and whatever you like and get stomped on by legendaries and shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Jul 2014 05:55:09 No.20244344 Report

Quoted By:

>>20241069
>m-muh legendaries

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 Jul 2014 05:56:23 No.20244355 Report

Quoted By:

>>20241069
>m-muh phione is more overpowered than mega milf

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