/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #21391469

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Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:48:56 No.21391469 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>21391483 >>21391521 >>21391525 >>21391702 >>21392121 >>21392143 >>21398481

How do we fix sun and make it more than a shitty version of rain?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:49:54 No.21391483 Report

Quoted By: >>21391499

>>21391469
Are you daft? Sun is great.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:51:25 No.21391499 Report

Quoted By: >>21394758

>>21391483
No. Charizard-Y is great. Sun sucks the big one. Anything sun can do rain can do better Except easily dispose of Ferrothorn

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:52:20 No.21391510 Report

Quoted By: >>21391530 >>21391555 >>21391902 >>21392195 >>21392198

How do we fix hail and make it more than a shitty version of sand?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:53:15 No.21391521 Report

Quoted By:

>>21391469
For it to be as versatile as rain it needs things with passive healing in sun or status cures in sun. Otherwise, offensively at least, it's very flexible as fire and grass types can both benefit from it

Hail is the real underdog

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:53:32 No.21391525 Report

Quoted By:

>>21391469
That's not how you spell hail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:53:58 No.21391530 Report

Quoted By: >>21391570

>>21391510
this is the more legit question. it should give ice types a stat boost in the same way that sand does rock.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:56:07 No.21391555 Report

Quoted By:

>>21391510
1) make ice types themselves not garbage
2) make a second type immune to hail
3) (and this is the single most important one) make abilities and effects that allow pokemon to more immediately abuse hail. Offensively hail only does 2 things, gives you a 100% accurate blizzard, and breaks focus sashes. Offensive hail teams were fucking garbage, and the only reason to ever use hail was for ice body Toxic stalling, whether it was walrein, glaceon, or vanilluxe. the death of infinite weather was the death of hail, currently there's nothing hail can accomplish in just 5-8 turns that warrants the set up.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:57:39 No.21391570 Report

Quoted By: >>21391587

>>21391530
>hail gives Ice-types Filter as well as defensive boosts

It would just be so great

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:58:44 No.21391577 Report

Quoted By: >>21391599 >>21391702

If rain is so great, how come it isn't around anymore? ahah how do we fix it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 03:59:35 No.21391587 Report

Quoted By:

>>21391570
what

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:00:18 No.21391599 Report

Quoted By: >>21392404

>>21391577
>If rain is so great, how come it isn't around anymore?
You'tr just not high enough on the ladder to face dedicated rain teams, which absolutely clean house and give regular teams massive problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:12:09 No.21391693 Report

Quoted By: >>21391866

Give Fire-types Chlorophyll
Give all Grass-types with Chlorophyll Weather Ball

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:13:40 No.21391702 Report

Quoted By: >>21391866

>>21391469
Fire type Chlorophyll sweepers

Chlorophyll sweepers that aren't fucking frail as shit

Give Drought to something that's not uber (Groudon,) shitty (Ninetales) or can't hold a Heat Rock (Y-zard)

Fast, Fire type sweepers that can take advantage of Sun in the same way Keldeo and the like can use Rain.

Make Sun do a couple other things, like, uh I can't think of anything. But Sun really only benefits Grass and Fire types (two pretty lacklusters types) while Rain benefits Water, Electric and Flying (i.e. Tornadus) types, which are all pretty good.

Remove Talonflame from existence.

>>21391577
>no one uses rain lol
I'm still surprised people on /vp/ think this way (well actually I'm not surprised) considering people have known rain has been good for the better part of a year now.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:13:50 No.21391704 Report

Quoted By: >>21392049

>swift swimmers get their stab boosted, water is also a great attacking type
>chlorophyll users get their weakness boosted, almost all of them only have hp fire to take advantage of, grass is a horrible attacking type
>rain fortifies steel types, one of the most important defensive types in the game, against one of their most prevalent weaknesses
>sun intensifies steel types' greatest weakness
>rain has tornadus, thundurus and keldeo -3 very powerful legendaries which add important offensive variety and back up swift swimmers- as secondary abusers
>sun has no amazing legendaries to take advantage of it or assist chlorophyll sweepers
>drought setters are weak to rocks, making continuously setting weather more difficult
>Talonflame exists, instantly shutting down any and all chlorophyll sweepers
That about covers all its problems in comparison to rain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:30:28 No.21391866 Report

Quoted By:

>>21391702
>>21391693
It would have to be part grass.

So, Talonflame is still a pain.

Meanwhile Rain has Kabutops and Omastar who resist both of the burd's stabs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:32:40 No.21391902 Report

Quoted By: >>21391914

>>21391510
I have a crazy idea.
Remove Ice Type weaknesses à la Delta Stream.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:33:23 No.21391914 Report

Quoted By:

>>21391902
I have an even better idea Balance the fucking type chart

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:43:16 No.21392049 Report

Quoted By:

>>21391704
>all this rain overpowerment
T-Thanks Masuda

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:50:35 No.21392121 Report

Quoted By:

>>21391469
Sun will always seem weak compared to rain because fire is weak to water. Also the benefits of sun were split between fire and grass while all of rains benefits focused on water.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:52:57 No.21392143 Report

Quoted By: >>21392182 >>21392221

>>21391469
Let's think real quick.
Electric, water, flying abuse rain offensively, and steel defensively.
Fire, grass abuse sun, fire a bit defensively, ground and rock could too I guess.
Rock, Ground, steel benefit from sand, mostly rock.
Ice benefits offensively and defensively from hail.

So in looking at this, maybe something like:
Fire Blast gains no miss accuracy in sun
Vine Whip too
And stone edge because why not and I'm a fag and not creative

Also for hail, I don't know why they don't so the stab boost rain/sun get

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:56:36 No.21392182 Report

Quoted By:

>>21392143
Instead of accuracy buffs, why not decrease evasion of opponents by a stage so its "different"
All those moves benefit from it and you could bs something like 'the enemy can't see the oncoming attacks as well due to the brightness

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:57:26 No.21392195 Report

Quoted By: >>21392237 >>21398731

>>21391510
Change to snow
Halve speed and triple PP usage for all non ice types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 04:57:40 No.21392198 Report

Quoted By: >>21392232 >>21395291

A sun equivalent to Rain Dish.

A sun equivalent to Thunder/Hurricane.

Either give a Fire type Pokemon Chlorophyll or make an equivalent.

>>21391510
Have Hail boost Ice's Defense by 50%

Have an Hail equivalent to Sand Force and/or Sand Rush.

Have hail not effect an additional type (I would suggest maybe Ghost; play off the idea of cold spots that paranormal activity supposedly exhibit).

And this is an Ice retool in general but make it resist Water at least.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:00:28 No.21392221 Report

Quoted By:

>>21392143
If Hydro Pump doesn't get an equivalent no miss in the sun, Fire Blast shouldn't.

Stone Edge however should be 100% accurate in Sand, though.

>Why don't they get the STAB boost

It's apparent that sand and hail trade raising and lower STAB attacks for causing damage and the respective types being immune to the damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:01:09 No.21392232 Report

Quoted By: >>21392235 >>21392260

>>21392198
How about hail slowing down enemy speed? Snow can be a bitch to run through

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:01:57 No.21392235 Report

Quoted By:

>>21392232
>slowing down enemy speed
Weather is mutual, you'd have to make it based on type not the opponent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:02:11 No.21392237 Report

Quoted By:

>>21392195
Shit didn't see this

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:04:21 No.21392260 Report

Quoted By:

>>21392232
So is sand, and that's not reflected.

Believe me, I don't dislike the idea, but it's not exactly snowing, it's hailing.

I've had this thought before:

Have Hail turn Water moves into Ice attacks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:17:58 No.21392404 Report

Quoted By: >>21392654 >>21395163 >>21395177

>>21391599
>Smogon
That's your problem. Their retarded bans are what allow these massive power creeps to happen.

And you guys just want a fucking Rain: Fire Version. You are even more retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:21:53 No.21392457 Report

Quoted By:

Make it so half the fucking types that benefit from sun (grass types) aren't hit for fucking double damage by the other half of the types that benefit from sun.

seriously just make grass good and sun will be fine

Electric types don't even slightly give a shit if they get wet for 100% accurate thunders but there's no fire type with chlorophyll and any chlorophyll users get dicked over by one of their major weaknesses being currently even stronger than usual

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:30:35 No.21392548 Report

Quoted By: >>21392591 >>21392756

Sun
-give heat wave 100 accuracy
-make weather ball and sun related abilites have better distribution, not only fire and grass type pokemon.

Hail
-reduce super effective attacks damage by 1/4. kinda like delta stream but not so good.
-ice attacks have a chance of lowering speed of pokemon that are weak to ice by 1 stage, it stacks with icy wind (it's harder to move around in snow and the like)
-ice type moves get either a x1.3 boost or have extra 10% chance of freezing

sand
-arena trap can trap flying pokemon
-pokemon with magma armor aren't damaged by sand
-sand tomb gets 100 accuracy and wider distribution, and can trap flying pokemon aswell

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:34:44 No.21392591 Report

Quoted By:

>>21392548
additionally, in sand rock polish raises either attack or accuracy one stage. i think attack would be a little broken, but accuracy would be fine i think

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:40:54 No.21392654 Report

Quoted By: >>21393714

>>21392404
Are you actually saying that getting rid of stupid shit like mega Khan and mega Luke creates a power creep?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:46:37 No.21392727 Report

Quoted By:

What if Burn gave -1 Sp.Atk under Sun?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 05:48:37 No.21392756 Report

Quoted By: >>21393158

>>21392548
jesus, do not buff arena trap

shadow tag is a broken mechanic, we don't need two of it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 06:04:25 No.21392901 Report

Quoted By:

>hail now prevents the use of activated items such as leftovers, berries, gems, etc on non-ice type pokemon
>including mega stones

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 06:28:16 No.21393158 Report

Quoted By:

>>21392756
having dugtrio or trapinch trapping your bird for 5 turns isn't really bad. earthquake still wont hit you

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 07:30:59 No.21393714 Report

Quoted By: >>21397511

>>21392654
It seems so, if rain teams run so rampant as you say. People flock what is most OP.

Can't even imagine how will they handle the new metagame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 08:26:44 No.21394184 Report

Quoted By:

To make sun slightly better?
Fire type swift swim, sadly the name Flare Boost is already taken.
Make good Grass types with coverage and sun usage in mind.
Maybe a sun Sand Force that boosts Fire, Grass, and Dragon type moves.

To make hail better?
50% defense boost to Ice types.
Make a few more hail abilities and hand them out to more than Ice types.
Fighting types with a hail Swift Swim would be fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 09:51:16 No.21394758 Report

Quoted By: >>21395072 >>21395095

>>21391499
Sun helps grass, rain helps thunder. Sun helps greatly to most fire mons and many grass mons, while rain helps mostly to water mons only and leave you open for thunder. sun allows for varstality, while rain is more focused. My playing style prefers sun for that reason, but i guess simple people like you want rain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 09:57:32 No.21394809 Report

Quoted By:

Give Grass Pokémon some coverage moves (Rock, Ground) to defend themselves against opposing Fire types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 10:39:40 No.21395072 Report

Quoted By: >>21395228

>>21394758
If sun is so great and only for pros then why have I not seen a dedicated sun for, well, a long time, when I see rain just about every day?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 10:44:04 No.21395095 Report

Quoted By: >>21395271

>>21394758
Rain also helps Ice types by cutting down Fire's damage. Hell, rain helps Ice more than hail ever will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 10:54:11 No.21395163 Report

Quoted By:

>>21392404
scrub detected, rain is amazing in pretty much ANY format. it's great in vgc and saw a lot of use at worlds this year.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 10:56:25 No.21395177 Report

Quoted By:

>>21392404
>implying Rain wasn't huge in VGC this year
fucking pleb

Thoughtless celestia !!tHnFiSDPCz5

Thoughtless celestia !!tHnFiSDPCz5 Mon 20 Oct 2014 11:06:06 No.21395228 Report

Quoted By: >>21397490

>>21395072
You just answered your own question.
In case you missed that,
casuals are more common than pros, and rain is easier to take advantage of.
I don't think either weather is better tough. both got pros and cons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 11:09:52 No.21395254 Report

Quoted By:

Because swift swimmers and such actually have water stab to abuse, meanwhile no fire type actually has chlorophyll and sun is a double edged sword for grass types.

Thoughtless celestia !!tHnFiSDPCz5

Thoughtless celestia !!tHnFiSDPCz5 Mon 20 Oct 2014 11:15:27 No.21395271 Report

Quoted By:

>>21395095
Well, sun helps ground by weakening water moves. some ground do better in sun than they do in sandstorm.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 11:19:49 No.21395291 Report

Quoted By: >>21397098

>>21392198
>make it resist Water at least.
I have no idea why people still insist on this shit. It's not like Ice wants to stay the way it is. It takes a lot of energy conservation to keep it that way. Why the fuck would Ice resist it's melted form? It's like chocolate resisting hot coco.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 16:10:05 No.21397098 Report

Quoted By:

>>21395291
Because ice isn't strictly literal ice, it also has a bunch of thematic connections to things like just general cold. Rotom-Frost and the move freeze dry for instance. It's entirely fair to think water freezes when cold = ice beats water.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 16:12:05 No.21397127 Report

Quoted By:

This Thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 16:43:34 No.21397490 Report

Quoted By: >>21398416

>>21395228
>I don't think either weather is better tough. both got pros and cons.
Did you even read the thread?

Sun is bad. It's really bad.

It's very, very uncommon, because' you're frankly handicapping yourself by using sun.

Just compare usage of Ninetales/Victreebel/Shiftry/etc. to Polioted/Kingdra/Kabutops/etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 16:45:48 No.21397511 Report

Quoted By:

>>21393714
There would be much less diversity without bans. The banned mons over-centralize the meta. The entire point of banning them is to create more balance and diversity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 17:12:39 No.21397827 Report

Quoted By: >>21398435

Why can't Smogon just ban the damp rock?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 18:04:32 No.21398416 Report

Quoted By: >>21398466

>>21397490
As far as I can think Sun's only niches over rain are like...growth and harvest. Other than that it's just shit tier rain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 18:05:50 No.21398435 Report

Quoted By: >>21398538

>>21397827
Because Rain isn't overpowered?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 18:07:08 No.21398452 Report

Quoted By:

make a fire type chlorophyll

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 18:08:00 No.21398466 Report

Quoted By:

>>21398416
Growth, Harvest, Leaf Guard, Flower Gift, Morning Sun, instant Solar Beam, Chlorophyll, and...I think that's it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 18:09:20 No.21398481 Report

Quoted By:

>>21391469
Make it also 1 turn Sky Attack along with Solar Beam due to the Glare in the opponents eyes

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 18:12:11 No.21398525 Report

Quoted By:

1. Make a good drought user
2. Make an excadrill tier Chlorophyll mon
3. Ban Talonflame

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 18:12:58 No.21398538 Report

Quoted By: >>21398593 >>21398669

>>21398435
Judging by the reactions in this thread i would've thought so.

lol at suggesting a chlorophyll equivalent for fire types. Literally trying to create a problem on top of another problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 18:17:11 No.21398593 Report

Quoted By:

>>21398538
A fire type chlorophyll user would still lose TO rain, but it would elevatevate sun closer to rain's level. Sun being asas usable as rain is not dependent on sun being able to beat rain in a battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 18:21:12 No.21398669 Report

Quoted By:

>>21398538
Rain is very good but it's not all that more powerful than other well made offensive teams. It's very difficult to combat for HO teams, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 18:25:29 No.21398731 Report

Quoted By:

Make hail do damage based on type. ie grass types take 1/8 instead of 1/16
or this
>>21392195

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Oct 2014 19:57:01 No.21399982 Report

Quoted By:

the problem with sun is that only fire types benefit from it, but only because of hitting harder with STAB. Most sun-related abilites are exclusive to grass types, but the sun also makes them more vulnerable to fire attacks, and they usually have poor coverage options, and if they don't have weather ball or HP fire, the sun doesn't boost them offensively.
Rock and ground become less vulnerable to water but are more open to a solar beam and the grass types that have abilities that work with the sun.

Rain, on the other hand, has many water mons that are boosted by rain (swift swim, rain dish, hydration), flying and electric types can use powerful STABs with no drawbacks, steel types get one weakness patched, not to mention that water types not only get a more powerful STAB, they usualyl have some coverage moves to use.

The obvious solution is to give better movepools and abilities to the pokemon that benefit from the sun so they can actually use it

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