/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #21700438

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Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 16:41:10 No.21700438 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>21700454 >>21700456 >>21700506 >>21701515 >>21706636 >>21713636 >>21714630

Welp.
I give it 1 month max.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-183730886

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 16:41:43 No.21700442 Report

Quoted By:

>1 month

it's going to be banned day 1

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 16:43:01 No.21700454 Report

Quoted By: >>21700469

>>21700438
>1137 → 1157

It's getting banned as soon as the game releases, it's not sticking around for anymore than 2 weeks

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 16:43:07 No.21700456 Report

Quoted By:

>>21700438
It was already quickbanned without adjustment. So there you go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 16:44:13 No.21700469 Report

Quoted By:

>>21700454
I just started playing oras ou.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 16:45:19 No.21700479 Report

Quoted By: >>21700506 >>21700515 >>21700650

Who in the flying fuck tries to WoW a Mega Salamence, is this your first time in ORAS OU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 16:48:00 No.21700506 Report

Quoted By: >>21700650

>>21700438
Opponent was trash.

>>21700479
Literally this, my thoughts exactly when I saw it.

The dude used his Milotic and Avalugg all wrong. Mega Salamence is OP, but a sweep like that is unprecedented if the opponent knows what he's doing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 16:48:49 No.21700515 Report

Quoted By:

>>21700479
I'm the mence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 16:53:44 No.21700558 Report

Quoted By:

>Dragon Pulse Milotic

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 17:05:27 No.21700650 Report

Quoted By: >>21701743

>>21700506
>>21700479
I'm talking about how powerful it is.
ohkoing a eviolite dusclops is pretty bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 18:47:28 No.21701515 Report

Quoted By: >>21701813

>>21700438
>Using dragon pulse against an azumarill
I stopped watching there. Post a replay with actual competent players and maybe I'll give a fuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 19:10:45 No.21701743 Report

Quoted By:

>>21700650
It's not bullshit, because the Dusclops didn't have Eviolite. That's how awful your opponent was. At Adamant +1, Aerilate Return has a guaranteed OHKO with 103.5% min if the Dusclops is 252 HP/0 Def with no Eviolite.

With Eviolite, it's a percentage to kill, granted there's nothing in HP or Def.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 19:19:56 No.21701813 Report

Quoted By:

>>21701515

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 19:51:04 No.21702064 Report

Quoted By: >>21702109 >>21702176 >>21702236

I've been playing around with the idea of things that can reliably deal with the current Mega Salamence builds. With the popular set seeming to be the substitute set, does anyone think the meta could make a move towards mons with infiltrator and sound moves? Hypervoice is already fairly popular on several mons so I won't bore anyone talking about them, but Noivern looks like it could earn its keep.

Scarfed Noivern, whether timid or modest, easily outspeeds salamence so it can be switched in as they sub up. If they stay in salamence is easily killed with draco meteor and anything switching in would likely take a pretty good amount of damage, too. And just about the only thing that could really kill it back is Talonflame - Greninja most likely couldn't as choice scarf greninja is fairly uncommon.

Also, I'm not sure how to calculate speed in showdown's calculator correctly, would choice scarf noivern outspeed mega salamence after a dragon dance?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 19:56:28 No.21702109 Report

Quoted By: >>21702144 >>21702155

>>21702064
The boost from scarf and the boost from dragon dance are the same. Noivern has 3 more base speed than Mega Salamence. Will probably have to run timid since Salamence usually has a speed boosting nature.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 20:00:33 No.21702144 Report

Quoted By: >>21711062

>>21702109
> Will probably have to run timid since Salamence usually has a speed boosting nature.
But that's wrong. Almost every mega salamence is adamant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 20:01:54 No.21702155 Report

Quoted By: >>21702236

>>21702109
Yeah, I looked it all up and saw that. Kinda too bad it can't be modest but it still kills pretty handily, especially if they sub.

So the presence of Noivern on the other team is pretty threatening - if mence subs or dances then the Noivern switching in scares it out. So their safest option is to attack? but then they're vulnerable to burn and they don't really want to start a sweep without boosting anyway... It would make them put some thought into their moves, at least. That's about as much as one could ask for in checking a pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 20:05:12 No.21702176 Report

Quoted By: >>21702221 >>21702319

>>21702064
We could also just ban it and not do stupid shit like scarfed pokemon with 123 base speed.

Locking yourself into a very weak Draco Meteor also just gives your opponent a free turn, and they don't even lose Mence if they switch into, you know, any Fairy or Steel type. Because if someone is sending in Noivern against +1 Mence, I can pretty safely assume it's scarfed infiltrator.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 20:12:17 No.21702221 Report

Quoted By:

>>21702176
So then you can use Uturn and get

>muh muhmentum

It still keeps salamence out of your face, which can't be bad. Pokemon come in for pivots and bounce out with uturn/volt switch on pokemon that can ohko them all the time, it's not foreign technology.

Also, choice scarf noivern is already a real set.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 20:14:15 No.21702236 Report

Quoted By:

>>21702064
>>21702155
Sure, great, with maximum mindgames, Noivern can occasionally force Mence out, and even more rarely, kill it.

Doesn't change the fact that it's fucking retarded to leave in OU. It's getting quickbanned, it's painfully obvious. You'd be spending your time better finding things that counter it in Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 20:25:34 No.21702319 Report

Quoted By: >>21705548

>>21702176
>but thinking is too hard

If you want a pokemon that can come in on 100% of all of salamences moves and OHKO regardless of what it does that's obviously never going to happen. Metagames change between sequels all the time, it's not particularly strange for a less popular game piece to emerge as time goes on. It seems weird now but if it works you won't even remember the difference in a few months. The new thing will just be a thing we're all used to.

Your attitude is pretty shitty, actually, to ban something just because it requires making adjustments to how you play rather than experimenting and learning how to beat it. I'm not saying mega salamence is a reasonable addition to the game - it certainly may not be - but if it's just banned before some time passes and legitimate testing is done and we just don't discuss it anymore then it's just a failure on the part of the players to accept something that may actually not be as bad as they think. Shit, there could even be megas or changes to pokemon that haven't been leaked yet that deal with it, or maybe the stats that we've been using for everything aren't the real stats at all. How long have people even been playing the sim? 3 weeks? That's not nearly enough time for a metagame to actually develop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 20:28:29 No.21702334 Report

Quoted By: >>21704419

I haven't played ORAS OU, but how's Hyoervoice M-Altaria faring?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 20:38:35 No.21702394 Report

Quoted By: >>21702407

Why did return kill dusclops? He is immune

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 20:40:22 No.21702407 Report

Quoted By:

>>21702394
Mega Salamence ability makes it flying type, just like Mega Pinsir.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 23:12:02 No.21704373 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Nov 2014 23:15:39 No.21704419 Report

Quoted By: >>21710693

>>21702334
Standard set.
Dragon Dance seems amazing in paper, but it's a disaster in practice.

Hyper Voice / Fire Blast / Roost / Earthquake or any filler is the best OU set so far.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 01:10:54 No.21705548 Report

Quoted By: >>21706165

>>21702319
>If you want a pokemon that can come in on and counter M-Salamence, that's obviously never going to happen.
Which is a problem. Not all pokemon need counters, but something as bullshit as Mega-Mence certainly does. It currently does not have anything that can reliably switch in on it and take it out or force it out.

>Metagames change between sequels all the time.
This is absolutely true, but I would ask you to consider other scenarios in the past where something was ridiculously strong at the time and was not banned for too long and shat up the Meta. Speed Boost Blaziken comes to mind. We see something similarly broken in Mega Salamence, so why not ban it before it becomes a problem? We should learn from our history, not repeat it.

>Your attitude is pretty shitty actually, to ban something just because it requires making adjustments to how you play rather than experimenting and learning how to beat it.
I actually agree with you on this. Banning something because you don't want to adjust to it is shitty. However, as you say latter, M-Salamence is not a reasonable addition to the game. I would rather see it banned initially and tested latter to see if it can come back down rather than slog through a month or two of "Whoever's M-Mence sets up first wins".

>Unrevealed Megas or wrong stats.
I doubt but do not entirely write off the possibility of revealed Megas. However, if you are praying on the slim chance that 1: There are revealed Megas and 2: One of them could be a counter, there is clearly a problem with M-Mence. As for the stats There is zero reason for them to not be the final stats.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 01:15:53 No.21705608 Report

Quoted By:

>I give it a month

I give it 11 minutes

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 01:29:08 No.21705798 Report

Quoted By: >>21705927 >>21714759

tfw I switch into sylveon everytime and ohko hyper voice through their subs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 01:37:25 No.21705927 Report

Quoted By: >>21706205 >>21706208 >>21706632

>>21705798
>running Choice Scarf Sylveon just to beat megamence

This isn't centralization AT ALL

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 01:52:48 No.21706165 Report

Quoted By: >>21713370

>>21705548
A pokemon having no counters and limited checks is fairly routine these days, you know that. There's actually a certain balance that comes from pokemon having options granted to them by good predictions with coverage moves rather than being 100 percent irrefutably countered by certain things.

So we know strong pokemon can be thwarted by the WAY that you play as what pokemon and moves you actually have. We know it can't set up on walls with roar because whether it dances or subs it'll get blown out. We know it can't set up on prankster things because it'll get burned/taunted/crippled to death. We know a fast pokemon with scarf and infiltrator like Noivern or Chandelure, to name a few, can hit and/or cripple it while it's behind a sub and even switch INTO the sub turn to force salamence out. And these types of things are staples in competitive play - every team should have some kind of scarfer to help revenge kill, every team should have a defensive pokemon, every team should have a way to phase pokemon out, every team should have something to cripple opponents and provide utility (with prankster, preferrably.) We already do all of the things that are needed to threaten mega salamence. Maybe we just need to change up the way that we play with these things or change the way we combine these things, and maybe change the specific pokemon we use to do them.

A lot of my online play is on cartridge on battle spot, so I'm going to be right there in the shit doing what I can. Oddly enough I do generally build teams by smogon rules, though... Even things like Mega Mom aren't totally unstoppable, though. They're certainly a CHALLENGE to beat and I wouldn't say smogon is wrong to ban them, but seeing one in the team preview isn't always a guaranteed death sentence.

If this thing makes it so only 8 pokemon are viable I could understand it's unhealthy, but if we're going to have basically the same variety but just with different pokemon we can live with that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 01:55:36 No.21706205 Report

Quoted By:

>>21705927
Scarfed Sylveon was a thing before Mega Salamence was even leaked. I actually remember threads about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 01:55:38 No.21706208 Report

Quoted By: >>21706591 >>21713219

>>21705927
>running ass vest raikou just to beat thundurus
This isn't centralization AT ALL
>running ferrothorn just to beat azumarill
This isn't centralization AT ALL

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 02:19:38 No.21706591 Report

Quoted By: >>21710367

>>21706208
1. Ass vest raikou? No-one fucking runs this shit in OU because Thundurus is manageable. Mence isn't

2. If you think Ferro's only role is to beat azu you're shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 02:22:16 No.21706632 Report

Quoted By: >>21710383

>>21705927
actually i run
Leftovers

Hyper Voice
Wish
Calm Mind
Baton Pass
evs in sp A/D

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 02:22:29 No.21706636 Report

Quoted By: >>21710385

>>21700438
>Milotic with Dragon Pulse
>using Dragon Pulse on a Azumaril

And closed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 10:32:56 No.21710367 Report

Quoted By: >>21711525

>>21706591
Actually, what else does ferrothorn do? Everything else can run some kind of fire coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 10:36:07 No.21710383 Report

Quoted By:

>>21706632
>Wish
>Calm Mind
>Baton Pass
>evs in sp A/D

>not in HP/Def

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 10:37:08 No.21710385 Report

Quoted By:

>>21706636
this

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 11:43:57 No.21710693 Report

Quoted By: >>21711069 >>21711525

>>21704419

A disaster??? Have you used it?

DD Mega Altaria is amazing. It's bulky, hits ridiculously hard, and has that dangerous versatility factor to it.

Physically defensive sets with Roost and Heal Bell are really good too. It takes around 60% from Banded Scizor's Bullet Punch, to give you an idea of how bulky it is.

It can run either Hyper Voice + Fire Blast, or Body Slam + Earthquake. It needs a defensive core to cover its weaknesses, but that's not a disaster.

Stuff I've tried that can stop Mence:

Magic Guard Clefable with Focus Sash, Modest 252 SpA, and Moonblast + TWave

Defensive TrickSpecs Rotom-W + Mamoswine (Volt Switch always breaks the sub)

Refrigerate Hyper Voice Aurorus

Ice Beam Slowbro

Rock Blast Rhyperior

This assumes that Mence is running the SubRoost DD Return set. Most are.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 13:09:45 No.21711062 Report

Quoted By:

>>21702144
>Clefable has the bulk to take on Jolly variants
> mfw Adamant is the standard and 2HKOs it with Return
Well shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 13:10:24 No.21711069 Report

Quoted By: >>21711525

>>21710693
Your post assumes the mega salamence sets wouldn't change in response to the pressure from those checks if the pressure was significant enough. Also, focus sash ANYTHING kills ANYTHING.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 14:13:08 No.21711525 Report

Quoted By: >>21712466

>>21710693
>>21711069

>focus sash being relevant here

What if you can't defog/spin before Mence is out? (Hint: this is likely against good players who can keep momentum) Your focus sash means fuck all. Focus sash Pokemon are not counters.

Rotom-w with enough Satk investment to break the sub and CB Mamoswine is how I've been dealing with it on Showdown atm.

>>21710367
Ferro can do the following things:
- Set up hazards (***Either SR or Spikes)
- Can put residual damage on sweepers through Iron Barbs to put them in KO range of priority
- Offers a check/counter to other mons through good resistances
- Heatran bait if you want to double into a mon that can boost up on it
- Stall
- STAB Gyro Ball
- Excellent against Rain teams, which you really should have an answer for

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 16:21:59 No.21712466 Report

Quoted By:

>>21711525
I wasn't actually asking what it does, I was saying it's not very special for much else. There are tons of pokemon that do some of those things much better and Heatran itself is great for pretty much everything it can do, aside from the rain thing. Is rain really coming back in a significant way?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 17:50:51 No.21713219 Report

Quoted By:

>>21706208
>Having to have a pokemon with taunt
>Having to have pokemon that use status moves
>Having to have pokemon that set hazards

STOP RESTRICTING ME

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 18:06:22 No.21713370 Report

Quoted By: >>21713386 >>21713439 >>21713563

>>21706165
your post gave me a rather viable idea.

Mega Aggron.

With a 4x resistance as just Aggron and one ofthe highest defenses in-game as Mega Aggron, can't it just resist literally everything Mega-Mence does and then Roar/Dragon Tail it out?

I offered Mega Aggron as a way to take out Mega Mawile way before hand but I was not even quoted about it on the Mawile suspect board...

It's not a garunteed counter/check, but its one of the best solutions to it I can think of.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 18:07:15 No.21713386 Report

Quoted By: >>21713439 >>21713466

>>21713370
fire
blast

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 18:13:42 No.21713439 Report

Quoted By: >>21713445 >>21713466

>>21713370
>>21713386
252 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 142-168 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 18:14:37 No.21713445 Report

Quoted By:

>>21713439
huh

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 18:16:26 No.21713466 Report

Quoted By:

>>21713386
>>21713439
Forgot the thing had it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 18:25:22 No.21713563 Report

Quoted By: >>21713741

>>21713370
I should also mention that since Aggron knows Thunder Wave, it can cripple Mega mence.

But at this point I feel like it's not really worth it considering Mega Aggron at this point was brought in specifically for stopping it as opposed to just flat out killing it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 18:34:05 No.21713636 Report

Quoted By:

>>21700438
>T6
You were against trash all along.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 18:46:10 No.21713741 Report

Quoted By: >>21713780

>>21713563
Well, we know it can definitely cripple salamence or roar it out at very least, what would its best option for killing it be? It can stone edge, right?

If it could threaten something else then scaring them out is still pretty good. Salamence can't just keep coming in if you have hazards up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 18:48:53 No.21713780 Report

Quoted By: >>21713817

>>21713741
It could use ice punch, since iron head and heavy slam won't break its subs

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 18:53:39 No.21713817 Report

Quoted By: >>21713928

>>21713780
so what's the set?

aggron with iron head, thunder wave, roar, ice punch?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 19:05:36 No.21713928 Report

Quoted By:

>>21713817
Maybe it's

Whatever specially defensive nature

Iron head
Twave/stealth rock
Roar
ice punch

Does it have other useful moves that might fit, not necessarily against salamence but in general in its role as a wall?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 19:07:02 No.21713949 Report

Quoted By: >>21717952

Maybe Kyurem-B can deal with it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 20:06:20 No.21714630 Report

Quoted By:

>>21700438
nice rating

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 15 Nov 2014 20:18:26 No.21714759 Report

Quoted By: >>21721848

>>21705798

>OHKO'd

you aint switching Sylveon into an Aerilate boosted Return any time soon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 00:24:05 No.21717952 Report

Quoted By:

>>21713949
Going off the calculations for normal salamance I can give you this.
>252+ Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252- Def Kyurem-B: 390-458 (85.9 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
That's some good damage. And that's only from normal Salamence, which normally outspeeds it.

And for no practical reason is Kyurem Black ever even built with 252hp/252def.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 05:07:38 No.21721848 Report

Quoted By: >>21721872

>>21714759
You switch in on the boosts...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 05:10:21 No.21721872 Report

Quoted By:

>>21721848
You clearly haven't tried this. Mence OHKOs it with SR damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 05:19:45 No.21721972 Report

Quoted By: >>21722564

Cofagrigas and Infiltrator Noivern fuck all over megamence and are really useful in other areas, just carry one and it's all good

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 06:14:58 No.21722564 Report

Quoted By: >>21722848 >>21722927

>>21721972
But those pokemon aren't currently OU, so they're shit. Don't you know anything, anon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 06:39:01 No.21722848 Report

Quoted By: >>21723087 >>21723229

>>21722564
Yeah, nothing wrong with using a mediocre pokemon for the sole purpose of beating one thing...

You're dumb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 06:44:59 No.21722927 Report

Quoted By:

>>21722564
To be fair, Cofagrigus while RU has a legit OU set because it fills a niche that there's really no alternative for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 06:56:30 No.21723087 Report

Quoted By: >>21723172 >>21724080

>>21722848
theyre not mediocre

theyre shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 07:03:09 No.21723172 Report

Quoted By: >>21723229

>>21723087
Neither of those are shit. Cofagrigous is niche and Noivern is a decent revenge-killer, though the latter is kind of outclassed by scarfed Latios.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 07:08:24 No.21723229 Report

Quoted By: >>21723289 >>21723597

>>21722848
They won't be shit if they work.

People don't seem to understand that pokemon who previously had little use can gain value as new pokemon or moves are released.

>>21723172
Scarf Latios doesn't outspeed Mega Salamence after a dragon dance. Scarf Noivern does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 07:08:56 No.21723234 Report

Quoted By:

Would running a fairly standard Magnezone setup but with HP Ice rather than fire be an effective check to Salamence without sacrificing Magnezone's effectiveness?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 07:13:07 No.21723289 Report

Quoted By: >>21723955

>>21723229
Scarf Noivern hits like a gentle summer breeze and isn't something that should be used all that much.

That said, I still like using it because no one ever expects it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 07:15:59 No.21723311 Report

Quoted By:

ok, i agree that megamence is going straight to ubers. but that opponent had an easy way to stop it if he hadn't wasted his avalugg and zapdos.

besides, he was running sub milotic with fucking dragon pulse, which means he either dropped his stab, ice beam, or a healing move for a shitty attacking type. he's a moron.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 07:45:51 No.21723597 Report

Quoted By:

>>21723229
Thing is, Cofagrigus already has it's use. If you're running a trick room team chances are you're gonna have it on your team. Because that's what it does well at. If you simply want a physical ghost wall, eviolite dusclops is already better.

The bigger problem for niche mons like cofagrigus is
>trick room
>singles

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 08:21:07 No.21723955 Report

Quoted By: >>21724035

>>21723289
Who cares how much harder Latios hits if it's never going to hit? Noivern outspeeds no matter what AND hits through sub. And it's an otherwise good pokemon with good coverage and scouting capabilities. It's a good pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 08:30:08 No.21724035 Report

Quoted By: >>21724046

>>21723955
Look, I love Noivern, but unless you need to deliver a Draco Meteor as fast as possible, Latios ends up being the better choice for most teams.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 08:31:02 No.21724046 Report

Quoted By: >>21724080 >>21724149

>>21724035
What do you think this thread is about?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 08:34:53 No.21724080 Report

Quoted By:

>>21724046
I know what the thread's about, but I'm arguing against this point >>21723087 and expanding on what I'd said.

I'm fully aware that scarf Noivern makes a better check for Mega-Mence than Latios.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 08:43:37 No.21724149 Report

Quoted By: >>21724173 >>21724322

>>21724046
>one pokemon needs an extremely specific check that's close to useless/outclassed in every other situation

Not overcentralizing at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 08:47:27 No.21724173 Report

Quoted By:

>>21724149
Noivern is still good otherwise - it's a fantastic revenge killer, scout and has good coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 09:13:59 No.21724322 Report

Quoted By:

>>21724149
Well, the dance/sub set is totally walled by Heatran and anything else is walled/crippled by the usual prankster mons and rotom wash. Are those smogon enough for you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 09:34:47 No.21724427 Report

Quoted By: >>21727478

Switch in slowbro on the sub/dance
Mega+ice beam
Hope it doesn't carry draco meteor

Switch in mamo on the sub/dance
Be choice banded ice shard max attack adamant
Hope they don't switch to something that resists ice

There is your 2 viable options. They're both not great as far as reliability goes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 13:52:05 No.21725883 Report

Quoted By:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-184350770

Did this guy even understand how to play

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 17:04:04 No.21727478 Report

Quoted By: >>21730211

>>21724427
The mamoswine one certainly wouldn't work - if you switch it in on a substitute it will just kill mamoswine as it sharts into the doll.

Slowbro is a fine option if they aren't mixed, like you said. The real problems do seem to come about when Salamence is mixed - that's always been the case I suppose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 16 Nov 2014 20:33:11 No.21730211 Report

Quoted By:

>>21727478

Mamo can take 1 unboosted return. But then thats 85% of your hp gone while you only broke a sub. If it dances you're dead. And it can switch

So this is a great counter when salamence is the last pokemon and it is not boosted. Aka probably never

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