/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #22518399

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123KiB, 789x796, mega_diancie_by_elaynii-d7leqbh.png

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:26:13 No.22518399 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>22518407 >>22518412 >>22518538 >>22518787 >>22518816 >>22518879 >>22519326 >>22520255

> Base 110 Speed
> Rock / Fairy typing is amazing offensively
> Magic Bounce
> Diamond Storm = super Stone Edge
> 50% Defense raise
> Got Earth Power from ORAS tutors, which deals with Heatran

I thought that Mega Diancie would take the metagame by storm. What happened?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:27:02 No.22518407 Report

Quoted By: >>22518440

>>22518399
bullet punch

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:27:53 No.22518411 Report

Quoted By: >>22518440

>using mega dianshit when mega metagross is there to Meteor Mash her cunt
>using her when mega metagross outclasses every other offensive mega
that is why

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:28:16 No.22518412 Report

Quoted By: >>22518440

>>22518399
Literally any steel type happened.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:33:42 No.22518439 Report

Quoted By:

Scizor

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:33:58 No.22518440 Report

Quoted By: >>22518465 >>22518481 >>22518519 >>22518727

It's a good Mega, but it's not as absolute as you're making it sound. It's very predictable, has dramatically slower speed before it evolves, and it's offensive power isn't as much as it seems. 160 is by no means a bad standard for a mega, but with no boosting move, ability or item, it's a lot lower than it seems. You could roughly look at it to be around ~120-130-ish.

>>22518411
This factors into it as well, though again, it's not as extreme as you're making it sound.

>>22518407
>>22518412
No. This is not what happened. 4x weaknesses are hardly a factor for a pokemon's competitive standing.
God /vp/ sucks dick at competitive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:36:00 No.22518465 Report

Quoted By: >>22518483

>>22518440
>but with no boosting move
Stopped right there

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:38:32 No.22518481 Report

Quoted By: >>22518500

>>22518440
yeah, having a 4x weakness to a fairly common priority move while having base 50 HP hardly affects Diancie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:38:40 No.22518483 Report

Quoted By: >>22518551 >>22518815

>>22518465
Are you reffering to Calm Mind? It's a viable set, but it's too slow of a move to consider for an overtly offensive mon. +1 offensive boost, again, makes it's offensive prowess a lot less than it looks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:41:22 No.22518500 Report

Quoted By:

>>22518481
>Fairly common

There are only 4 pokemon worthwhile that can run it. Metagross, Lucario, Medicham and Scizor. Scizor and Medicham are the only of those pokemon that commonly do. Medicham is also falling in usage due to being generally outclassed by Gallade. This isn't 4th gen.

Also there's a shit ton of strong OU pokemon weak to common priority moves, yet they still do fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:43:38 No.22518515 Report

Quoted By:

It doesn't perform well in a meta littered with M-Meta and M-Lop, and with balance on the rise when its best match-ups depending on the set are HO (Rock Polish) and Stall (Calm Mind).

It just doesn't fit very well in the meta right now, and its incredible stats can't compensate for that, especially without an incredible movepool to help push it along.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:43:51 No.22518519 Report

Quoted By: >>22518539 >>22519591

>>22518440

What do you mean by predictable? As in it only runs one set?

I've been using it, and it's been pretty solid. It's frail and it has a lot of weaknesses, but its offensive power makes up for it. Diamond Storm is ridiculously powerful for an unboosted move off only 4 Attack investment, and it covers so many things. Charizard, Pinsir, Sableye, Altaria, Keldeo, ect.

I see it as having a lot of offensive utility (covers a lot of mons in one teamslot), but it does kinda sit in Metagross' shadow.

I don't think that Magic Bounce really does much for it, either. Would have been much better with Sturdy.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO metagross-mega.gif, 695KiB, 146x118

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:47:30 No.22518538 Report

Quoted By: >>22518704 >>22519424

>>22518399
Once it gets sent up to the ban list all that's left to keep it in check is Scizor

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:47:45 No.22518539 Report

Quoted By: >>22518596

>>22518519
>What do you mean by predictable? As in it only runs one set?

Mainly it's choice of offensive moves. They hardly change at all between sets, so you can usually deal with it's coverage accordingly. To be fair, this aspect isn't really that huge at all.

But yeah, it's by no means a bad pokemon. Great, actually. It's current competition keeps it down, but it sits comfortably.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:49:41 No.22518551 Report

Quoted By: >>22518575 >>22518588

>>22518483
>+1 offensive boost, again, makes it's offensive prowess a lot less than it looks.
Wat
+1 special attack boost is only 10 points weaker than Specs Kyurem-White. You must be delusional if you that isn't enough power to wreak shop

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:54:08 No.22518575 Report

Quoted By:

>>22518551
Whoops I meant "if you think that isn't enough power to wreak shop". Typing on mobile fucking sucks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 14:58:22 No.22518588 Report

Quoted By: >>22518592 >>22518815

>>22518551
Okay, okay I can see why this might seem odd to you. It's not a matter of if that's strong or not. It's a matter of if that's worth the time setting up. I agree that at that level of power, it's very strong. It's not sweep-through-teams strong, but it's definitely something that'll be putting holes in teams. However when judging the offensive presence, that's not a measure of it's Atk/SpAtk, but also the "quickness"(not speed stat, but rather how many turns it takes to effectively utilize it) of that pokemon comes into play.
Spec Kyurem is stronger than that while having that power immediately. Diancie must set up 1 turn to do that, which is extremely risky. Comparing the damage output doesn't compare the offensive presence.

Also consider the fact that Gallade has extremely comparable stats, and a +2 boost instead of just +1.

To effectively get the same as M-Gallade, you spend 2 turns setting up. It's just not as overtly threatening.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 15:00:07 No.22518592 Report

Quoted By:

>>22518588
Jesus fuck my English. Sorry, tired as balls right now.

tl;dr Offensive presence is a term used to describe an amalgamation of a Pokemon's practical ability, not just the raw numbers of it's damage output under ideal circumstances.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 15:01:04 No.22518596 Report

Quoted By:

>>22518539

I think what surprises me the most is that everyone kinda ignores it. Diancie isn't really mentioned anywhere, it has no accepted niche in OU, it's not a top pick for any role...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 15:21:17 No.22518704 Report

Quoted By:

>>22518538
Bring back genesect when? ;_;

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 15:25:06 No.22518727 Report

Quoted By: >>22518815

>>22518440
>no boosting move
>what is Calm Mind
I'd rather you had said no recovery. Because yeah, a 4x weakness to a fairly common offensive typing will hurt it anyways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 15:31:05 No.22518787 Report

Quoted By:

>>22518399
Mega Banette syndrome.
She has reduced 110 defenses and base 50 speed during the turn she mega evolves.
That's pretty much the reason she isn't that great.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 15:34:40 No.22518815 Report

Quoted By:

>>22518727
See: >>22518483
>>22518588

I should've been more specific the first time. It has a boosting move, but not one strong enough to affect it's offensive presence significantly.

>Because yeah, a 4x weakness to a fairly common offensive typing will hurt it anyways.

Technically, yes. But that's never a significant determining factor, only an additional one. It by no means makes M-Diancie bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 15:35:07 No.22518816 Report

Quoted By:

>>22518399
>What happened?
You sucked dick at competitive theorycraft for expecting Diancle to be OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 15:43:33 No.22518879 Report

Quoted By: >>22519508

>>22518399
Smogon are shitters that is what.

There is only one M-Diancie user on the top of the ladder and they don't even use any of the sets Smogon keep insisting are the standard set for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 16:49:06 No.22519326 Report

Quoted By: >>22519340

>>22518399

>Rock/Fairy

what do you think?

Also it has no way in boosting it's offensive stats outside of getting lucky with ancient power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 16:51:02 No.22519333 Report

Quoted By: >>22519405

Same reason as Kyurem-B

It has to go mixed

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 16:52:04 No.22519340 Report

Quoted By: >>22519350

>>22519326
>Also it has no way in boosting it's offensive stats outside of getting lucky with ancient power.

Calm Mind

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 16:53:05 No.22519350 Report

Quoted By:

>>22519340

okay, there's that, but with 50 base HP, diancie can't really afford to set up unless you have strict team support.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:01:47 No.22519405 Report

Quoted By:

>>22519333
Even if it did get Power Gem no ones going to run it over Diamond Storm anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:05:48 No.22519424 Report

Quoted By:

>>22518538
>Scarf Theriandorus
>Azumarill
>Mega Venusaur
>Scarftran (don't come in on Erf Powa)
>Crawdaunt (RK)
>Scarf Excadrill (RK)
>Mega Aggron

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:11:52 No.22519463 Report

Quoted By: >>22519470

It's an utterly excellent pokemon. The only reason it's not everywhere is because people are stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:12:24 No.22519468 Report

Quoted By:

That magic bounce is rather underwhelming from my experience. The typing is good offensively, but not defensively. Most common focus sash stealth rock leads (Garchomp, Mamoswine, Terrakion) wreck it 1on1, so it can't prevent them from putting their rocks up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:12:36 No.22519470 Report

Quoted By: >>22519573

>>22519463
>The only reason it's not everywhere is because people are stupid.

Or because there are better and more reliable megas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:14:48 No.22519491 Report

Quoted By:

I have used it a ton and a lot of the time I wished I was using Mega Gardevoir or Metagross instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:16:45 No.22519508 Report

Quoted By: >>22519729

>>22518879
who?
I want to see some replays

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:22:18 No.22519573 Report

Quoted By: >>22519677 >>22519729 >>22520301

>>22519470
It's a top five mega, easily. All the reasons in this thread as to why it's not that good have been completely fucking shit.

>bullet punch
There's one user of this. One. Two if you count metagross but it's very rare.
>[list of checks]
Holy shit everything has checks
>it can't boost
CM
>it's bad against stall
CM and completely shuts down Sableye
>50 speed upon mega evo
You can run protect, or MEvo in front of something it checks

etc.

I'm seriously getting a Mega Metagross vibe here where you shits thought it was terrible until someone else told you it was good. I can honestly tell that almost no one here has used it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:25:29 No.22519591 Report

Quoted By:

>>22518519
Magic Bounce makes it a very good TR setter in doubles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:37:51 No.22519677 Report

Quoted By: >>22519684 >>22519707

>>22519573
>It's a top five mega, easily
>Metagross
>Lopunny
>Sableye
>Altaria
>Char-X
>Gardevoir
>Burrito Truck
That's seven Megas that are more effective in the current OU metagame than Mega Diancie. It's by no means bad, of course, and I'd even say that it's amazing, but the competition for a Mega slot is harsher than ever. Why settle for "amazing" when you can have "unparalleled"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:39:05 No.22519684 Report

Quoted By:

>>22519677
Shit, Gyarados should also be on that list. Make that eight Megas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:42:48 No.22519707 Report

Quoted By: >>22519714 >>22520221

>>22519677
>hey look at me I checked the crappy viability rankings
Diancie is better than those last three, at minimum. Sableye only fits on defensive builds.

But whatever, I don't want to nitpick whether or not its fourth or sixth best. It's a very, very good mega, the usage it's getting is baffling (below Manectric what the hell.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:43:54 No.22519714 Report

Quoted By: >>22519720

>>22519707
>below something with intimidate and volt switch and jolteon's speed
golly i wonder why

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:45:38 No.22519720 Report

Quoted By:

>>22519714
Mega Man is bad against any remotely bulky team. It's seriously easy to shut down. It's good, but it doesn't do that well in the meta right now which is really, really bulky atm.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 17:47:08 No.22519729 Report

Quoted By: >>22519845

>>22519573
>CM
>CM and completely shuts down Sableye
No stop this.

Whilst most of /vp/ as usual don't have a clue this is why people shit on M-Diancie in the first place, CM is a shit move for it.

The best Diancie set is simply mixed sweeper with Protect + 3 attacks. It's stupidly simple, if you ever see Smogon's discussions they'll only ever shit on a Protect set yet the most consistent performing M-Diancie I've seen on the ladder uses this set.

>>22519508
Can't help you with the replays here but I can tell you they used a M-Diancie with a Volt-turn team consisting of Xatu, Rotom-W, Cobalion, Diggersby and I can't remember the last mon and easily peaked within the top 20 on the ladder on two alts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 18:03:56 No.22519845 Report

Quoted By:

>>22519729
what are the names of the accounts so I can look up replays on showdown?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 18:57:42 No.22520221 Report

Quoted By: >>22520232

>>22519707
>implying I can't justify those
Mega Gardevoir has superior firepower, a superior defensive type combination, usable Special bulk, better support options, and doesn't need to go mixed. It crushes stall and has enough utility to punish offense.
Char-X might not be the undisputed best Dragon Dancer around anymore, but it still packs more raw power than the others and still has that sexy Burn immunity. Good bulk and reliable recovery allow it to come in to wall break if the opponent cannot be swept yet.
Pancho the burrito guy has worked hard to become a citizen of this fine nation. In addition to his famous burritos, he's highly resilient in the face of all sorts of abuse and oppression. He's a skilled domestic, and can clear a room of all debris in under a minute. He's a skilled dancer and a great wingman, but he also makes a point of knocking it off when it looks like things are getting too crazy. And his burritos are to die for.
(...)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 18:59:08 No.22520232 Report

Quoted By:

>>22520221
Yes, Mega Diancie is really good. But it has some flaws that keep it from being dominant
>relatively frail
>lower raw power than stats alone would suggest (compare Diamond Storm/Moonblast to Scrappy HJK or Tough Claws Flare Blitz/Meteor Mash)
>mixed STABs
>cannot heal, making it a touch more difficult to abuse Magic Bounce to the fullest
>Flying/Dragon spam has declined in OU
>Rain/Sand/Landorus has seen more use in OU
>running HP Fire means running 30 speed IVs and losing to other base 110s
>not running HP Fire means losing to Ferrothorn and Pancho, though this can be played around
>must survive a turn with 50/160/110/160/110/50 base stats, making it difficult to use in the face of sustained offensive pressure (no Protect) or a team with, say, Serperior (Protect)
>does not like Mega Venusaur stall
Diancie is a moderate risk/high reward Mega. Using it requires more careful teambuilding than the Megas in S and A+.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO shignaught.png, 209KiB, 500x500

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 19:02:38 No.22520255 Report

Quoted By: >>22520418

>>22518399
The main problem with Mega Diancie isn't the prevalence of Steel types (well, Bullet Punch IS a problem).

It's the fact that Diancie retains its original speed the turn it Mega Evolves. I don't let it Mega safely, and Protect is a moveslot handicap. You don't know how many people Mega Evolve on my Chesnaught assuming it to be defensive just to die to Wood Hammer.

ltachi !!tNeHYqhngQr

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO STOPPED READING THERE.jpg, 580KiB, 1153x823

ltachi !!tNeHYqhngQr Tue 13 Jan 2015 19:09:27 No.22520301 Report

Quoted By:

>>22519573
>It's a top five mega, easily.
Now I remember why I stopped going to /v/2.0.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 19:26:12 No.22520418 Report

Quoted By: >>22520649

>>22520255
>protect is a moveslot handicap

when did this ever become a thing. I remember when protect was always useful to include in a filler slot as it is one of the better moves for scouting

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 19:27:28 No.22520434 Report

Quoted By:

Diancie would've been amazing if they gave her Work Up. Boosting Diamond Storm alongside her special attacks while being immune to taunts and status would be terrifying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 13 Jan 2015 19:52:07 No.22520649 Report

Quoted By:

>>22520418
Protect is useful on things like defensive Heatran or Gliscor. Putting it on offensive mons is a handicap because they quite often crave for coverage.

Mega Diancie would like access to both HP Fire and Earth Power, for example, considering you want to keep it in as long as possible and only switch it in on something like a Talonflame or Chansey.

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