/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #22590131

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Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 15:59:14 No.22590131 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>22590214 >>22590236 >>22590298 >>22590308 >>22590312 >>22590343 >>22590356 >>22590428 >>22590666 >>22590749 >>22590861 >>22590950 >>22591079 >>22591082 >>22591100 >>22591104 >>22591801 >>22591811 >>22592013

Everyday we see a lot of posts regarding Smogon, whether to defend their shit or bash it. So I’ll list everything they banned from OU and ask vp if they agree or not, what could go wrong?

>Swagger Clause
>Baton Pass Clause
>Aegislash ban
>Blaziken ban
>Darkrai ban
>Deoxys bans
>Genesect ban
>Mega Gengar ban
>Greninja ban
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
>Mega Lucario ban
>Mega Mawile ban
>Mega Salamence ban
>Sky Shaymin ban

I expect some discussions and a lot of shitposting. Have fun!

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1421163685252.jpg, 308KiB, 546x706

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:01:46 No.22590148 Report

Quoted By:

They are fucking faggots who dont know how to get gud

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:04:54 No.22590176 Report

Quoted By:

Deoxys-D and Mawile are the only rather fishy ones. I think they should be retested. I also don't see why BP should be only limited to one mon instead of two. Other bans were fully justified.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:11:08 No.22590214 Report

Quoted By: >>22590235 >>22590277 >>22590300 >>22590592 >>22590715 >>22590762 >>22591145

>>22590131
>Swagger Clause
Swagger was never an issue until this season. Swagger+Prankster was annoying but did not deserve a ban. Foul Play is a 95 BP attack that fires off the opponent attack stat, I think that was the thing to ban, but whatever.
>Baton Pass Clause
Prolly justified as long as they don't completely ban it.
>Aegislash ban
They need to unban this and test it with all the new things from ORAS. Prolly unjustified.
>Blaziken ban
Deserved.
>Darkrai ban
He deserves to be tested with ORAS changes, though it's prolly justified.
>Deoxys bans
He deserves to be tested with ORAS changes, prolly unjustified.
>Genesect ban
He deserves to be tested with ORAS changes, though it's prolly justified.
>Mega Gengar ban
Fully Agree.
>Greninja ban
If Smogon does the right thing and re-test everything with ORAS changes, then they need to unban this to test him. Either way, prolly unjustified.
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Fully Agree.
>Mega Lucario ban
They need to unban this and test it with all the new things from ORAS.
>Mega Mawile ban
Totally unjustified.
>Mega Salamence ban
Same as Greninja, though prolly justified.
>Sky Shaymin ban
He deserves to be tested with ORAS changes, prolly unjustified.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:13:38 No.22590235 Report

Quoted By: >>22590252

>>22590214
>not realizing that having both Darkrai and Mega Mawile banned at the same time is completely fucking retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:13:45 No.22590236 Report

Quoted By: >>22590300

>>22590131
>Baton Pass Clause
git gud
>Blaziken ban
Retest regular, smogon bird is everywhere
>Deoxys bans
Retest defence, spikes? defog everywhere bruh
>Mega Mawile ban
Retest to balance mega metalspider
>Sky Shaymin ban
Retest, not as good as it once was

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:18:13 No.22590252 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590235
Smogon is retarded, look at all those bans... place is filled with crybabies today and doesn't let the meta react.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:23:01 No.22590277 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590214

Look everyone. Here is someone that knows nothing about battling.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:25:18 No.22590289 Report

Quoted By: >>22590327 >>22590346 >>22591008

Smogon started this Gen solid. Blaziken is a retarded Pokemon, and so they went with the lazy way of getting rid of it, but that's fine. Kangaskhan and Gengar have no room in this tier. I had my doubts about Lucario being broken, particularly because I always kicked that thing's ass even in Pokemon Online's high ladder, but looking back on it, its ban was fine. Genesect definitely had to go, while both Deoxys are whatever. Up until this, it was fine.

Aegislash was the first fishy ban, rather close and it seems some people got basically forced to change their votes for the sake of not getting internet-bullied by Smogon's badgeholders. I thought Mawile was even more balanced than Aegislash, let alone since it runs only one set, with some slashes, but that thing went out with an even larger margin. Both these bans were stupid, but it didn't just end in OU, with all the fiasco that happened on the Ubers tier. Fail to ban Gengar, disregard it and hit it with a different concept, Shadow Tag this time, while also making the whole voting process a fraud so that they could make sure it got banned. This is basically when Smogon lost all of its credibility.

After that, Salamence definitely had to go, Rayquaza is the dumbest Pokemon to ever exist, so I understand that Chaos had to lie about no bans on the Ubers tier ever, while Greninja is something shaky like Mawile and Aegislash.

All in all, it was relatively fine for Smogon in terms of the right bans, as much as I always bash on them, but the whole bullshit that happened through the latter half of the XY period was way too fucking retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:26:51 No.22590293 Report

Quoted By:

OU is still breathing and walking

So i guess i would agree on all those bans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:27:11 No.22590298 Report

Quoted By: >>22590325

>>22590131
they need to bring my nigga gene back

can't wait for next gen to battle with him again

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:27:24 No.22590300 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590214
>>22590236
>wanting to retest Skymin
There are some dumb Smogon bans but this is definitely not one of them

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:28:28 No.22590308 Report

Quoted By: >>22590335 >>22590425

>>22590131
Still don't understand why they thought adding another tier above Ubers was more necessary than adding one between OU and Ubers.
The sorts of things you're listing there really don't belong with the likes of Xerneas, Arceus and Mewtwo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:28:56 No.22590312 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590131
darkrai ban is pretty much just a sleep clause, pretty justifiable

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:31:11 No.22590325 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590298
doubt it since there's nothing that was added in ORAS that counters it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:31:32 No.22590327 Report

Quoted By: >>22590331 >>22590337

>>22590289
I've been wondering this, if Shadow tag is Banned from Ubers can you still use M-Gengar there?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:31:55 No.22590329 Report

Quoted By: >>22590388

Most of them I agree with but I think swagger and baton pass are unjustified. They are both creative and different ways to play the game and for them to be banned feel like stifling creative gameplay

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:32:26 No.22590331 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590327
Shadow Tag isn't banned from Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:33:15 No.22590335 Report

Quoted By: >>22590403 >>22591036

>>22590308
I feel Smogon didn't realise the power changed this Gen. I think OU should include most of the things banned, since OU should always contain the most used pokemons as it names indicates, and add a proper tier between OU and UU to house.

So something like:

OU - Top-20 mons or so.
New thing - Most of the OU things now.
UU, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:33:36 No.22590337 Report

Quoted By: >>22590345 >>22590379

>>22590327
You can't, that's why they tried to suspect it. They brought up the idea that Gothitelle was a big threat, and that's why it warranted a suspect test as an ability, which is true to an extent, because Gothitelle is good. However, it doesn't hide the fact that is was just more bullshit to try to get rid of Gengar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:35:02 No.22590343 Report

Quoted By: >>22591129 >>22591962

>>22590131

>Swagger

I'm still iffy on that, but some pokemon, namely pranksters were pretty ridiculous with it. It was the influx of pranksters that made Swagger obnoxious, not Swagger itself.

>baton pass

makes sense because BP chains were very easy to obtain and their counters were few and far inbetween and even then it was iffy. it overcentralized the metagame and the metagame was very very unhealthy at that time.

>Aegislash

no. Aegislash barely got banned in the first place, and it took removal of numerous votes to get it banned. It should get restested one of these days

>blaziken

yes. Blaziken+Speed Boost is obnoxiously good, especially since it got Baton Pass in 6th Gen. Basically forced everyone to carry Azumarril+Talonflame every match.

>Darkrai

yes. hard hitting, fast and a great movepool. Darkrai would tear OU apart.

>Deoxys

yes, see darkrai. Also has 4 forums and does all of them exceptionally well. Even though Deo-N is shit in Ubers, its still hits way to hard and fast for ou and only gets OHKO'd by Sucker Punch priority and Aegislash priority.

>Genesect

yes. I can just leave it at that.

>Mega Gengar

yes. absolutely made an entire playstyle useless. overcentralized the metagame and deserved to be banned.

>Greninja

yes. When you have to carry abutairy nonsense shitmons like AssVest Skuntank to counter greninja, that obviously means it's unhealthy for the metagame. Also was basically the Mega Gengar to Hyper Offense. No one wants to carry Porygon 2 on every team just to deal with one Pokémon.

>MegaMom

Megamom is the Gen 4 Garchomp of Gen 6, what do you think?

>MegaLuke

a better Deoxys-N, what do you think?

>Mega Mawile

iffy on that one but Mega Mawile does hit incredibly hard even without attack investment. May need a retest in the future like Aegislash.

>Skymin

the only Pokémon to receive a 100% supermajority in the history of Smogon. If you don't think it should stay in Ubers , you actually have mental problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:35:24 No.22590345 Report

Quoted By: >>22590379 >>22590385

>>22590337
>They
it was literally one guy who was bootyblasted about Mega Gengar

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:35:31 No.22590346 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590289
Shadow Tag ban was blatant bullshit and was told to fuck off tho.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:36:27 No.22590356 Report

Quoted By: >>22590395

>>22590131

I only disagreed with Deoxys-S and M-Mawile being banned. Conversely I think that M-Mawile, both Deos, and maybe Genesect should be retested to see how they fare in the ORAS meta.

Yes, I completely supported the Aegislash ban and no, I do not think it should be retested. Metagame shifts will never affect that broken piece of shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:40:25 No.22590379 Report

Quoted By: >>22590392 >>22590419

>>22590337
>>22590345

So let me ge this straight, M-Gengar if "isn't banned" then before AG where did you could use the damn thing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:40:47 No.22590385 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590345
I remember reading the thread and it was mostly opinions about how it was so broken, while I guess the ones that stated something different were getting deleted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:41:22 No.22590388 Report

Quoted By: >>22590415

>>22590329

They may be creative and different but they're not conpetitive, so they have no place in the Smogon metagame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:41:53 No.22590392 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590379
in Ubers
Mega Gengar and Shadow Tag were never banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:42:13 No.22590395 Report

Quoted By: >>22590532

>>22590356
>Aegislash
>broken
git
gud

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:42:52 No.22590402 Report

Quoted By: >>22590417

There is only one thing that's a good ban, and that's the banning of legendaries. Banning anything else is retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:43:04 No.22590403 Report

Quoted By: >>22590425

>>22590335

That would be my worst dream come true. OU is already swamped with questionable legendaries, it would just be mini-Ubers if the top 20 from current OU formed the new OU. Literally 4 legendaries and Mega and a pseudo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:44:16 No.22590415 Report

Quoted By: >>22590569

>>22590388
How are they not competitive? They can work well and are not the basic set up and attack or stall shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:44:23 No.22590417 Report

Quoted By: >>22590424

>>22590402
completely agree.
When will smogon ban Phione?
That thing is so broken, sweeps me every time and there's no counters for that damn thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:44:45 No.22590419 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590379
Shadow Tag and with it Gengar got banned for a few hours. I forgot to add the part where Chaos corrected that ban on my long post, but that's how it happened.

The plan was probably to completely remove the thing from the game until it got found usable on Ubers again. You still could use it in Doubles and VGC anyway, if you really care.

It was with Rayquaza that they made the Anything Goes tier, claiming Ubers was finally a tier. It was kinda funny, because they always refer to Ubers as a banlist first when they want to ban something from OU, to shutdown the "It's too weak for Ubers" argument, which is a bad argument anyway. But when they wanted to ban Gengar, they stopped talking about it as a banlist, and treating it as a tier so it could go. They finally made it official with Rayquaza.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:45:19 No.22590424 Report

Quoted By: >>22590431 >>22590456

>>22590417
I never said that Smogon needed to ban all legendaries. I said that bans on legendaries is the only justified ban.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:45:37 No.22590425 Report

Quoted By: >>22590456

>>22590403
Then you would be playing the in-between OU and UU, as you are happy with how smogon is now, while I'd be playing a less-restricted meta which is what smogon lacks this gen. Because like >>22590308 pointed out, there are some banned mons that has nothing to do with the likes of Xerneas & co.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:46:05 No.22590428 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590131

>Swagger Clause
Fully Agree. No discussion here. Almost as bad as Double Team/Moody.
>Baton Pass Clause
Unnessesary but not against it.
>Aegislash ban
Retest. Not centralizing ATM. Lando-T received it's PhD in Most-OU-Since-Genesect, and wrecks it. Tutors, New megas, weak.
>Blaziken ban
Why the fuck is this still here?
>Darkrai ban
Nobody whose opinions matter thinks this should be OU
>Deoxys bans
Ditto Darkrai. Defense/Speed should be tested, maybe.
>Genesect ban
Don't know if it should come back. but testing won't hurt.
>Mega Gengar ban
I loved using it, and it counters stall like Holy shit, but probably it'd be better if it left.
>Greninja ban
Voted against ban. Haven't played OU since.
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Probly fair.
>Mega Lucario ban
Test this mofo.
>Mega Mawile ban
Ditto Luke
>Mega Salamence ban
In Ubers it's as used as it was in OU. You tell me.
>Sky Shaymin ban
Ditto Darkrai.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:46:36 No.22590431 Report

Quoted By: >>22590448

>>22590424
that's what I said
banning Phione is completely justified, because it's so Overpowered, since it's a legendary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:47:08 No.22590439 Report

Quoted By:

>Swagger Clause
It's not even a good strat but good fucking riddance
>Baton Pass Clause
Even if you pack a counter, the game becomes a 50 turn shitfest that's more likely decided by a lucky crit than good decisions so fuck it
>Aegislash ban
You could just slap one in pretty much any team with zero thought but I think it added to the game and I would like to see it in OU again
>Blaziken ban
It was bullshit before so of course it's going to be bullshit when it's fucking buffed
>Darkrai ban
Darkrai is amazing and this "they should make it OU" meme needs to end
>Mega Gengar ban
Shadow Tag just doesn't combo with something that is actually good in a way that makes the game balanced or fun
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
If you think Momma is balanced you're delusional
>Mega Salamence ban
If you didn't instantly think "this shit needs to be quickbanned day 1" when you saw "Ability: Aerilate" you need to reconsider your life
>Sky Shaymin ban
that speed combined with 60%=100% is one thing but seed flare puts it over the top

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:48:20 No.22590448 Report

Quoted By: >>22590475

>>22590431
I did not say that legendaries are inherently OP. I said that banning legendaries is justified. Read my post again before you start throwing more tantrums.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:48:34 No.22590456 Report

Quoted By: >>22590471

>>22590424
Yet bans on megas, the things Gamefreak created solely in mind to bring Pokemon like Kangaskhan up to the level of legendaries, shouldn't be banned because?

Celebi and Dialga can't actually manipulate time during Battle. Kangaskhan actually can have her kid >>22590425
hit a second time for her

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:50:03 No.22590471 Report

Quoted By: >>22590493

>>22590456
megas have a built in 1 per team restriction for a reason

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:50:29 No.22590475 Report

Quoted By: >>22590491

>>22590448
that's the point
things are banned when they're overpowered
all legendaries are ok to be banned
Phione is a legendary
Phione is ok to be banned
Phione is overpowered
What is wrong with this logic?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:51:46 No.22590491 Report

Quoted By: >>22590500

>>22590475
Only legendaries can be overpowered.

If Smogon decided that Phione is overpowered because of reasons and banned it, then so be it. Nobody uses that shitmon anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:52:02 No.22590493 Report

Quoted By: >>22590523

>>22590471
Yeah, I guess Arceus would be completely balanced in OU if you could only have one per team and it didn't have an item.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:53:02 No.22590500 Report

Quoted By: >>22590506

>>22590491
So you're ok with Phione being banned for being overpowered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:53:55 No.22590506 Report

Quoted By: >>22590516 >>22590530 >>22590555

>>22590500
Yes I am. It's a legendary after all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:54:58 No.22590516 Report

Quoted By: >>22590527

>>22590506
Then if they ban every single legendary from Articuno to Volcanion you'd agree?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:55:38 No.22590523 Report

Quoted By: >>22590555

>>22590493
no it wouldn't

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:55:56 No.22590527 Report

Quoted By: >>22590536

>>22590516
The entire metagame would be healthy with every legendary banned, you can't deny that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:56:20 No.22590530 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590506
By that logic Zygarde should be banned and look where it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:56:30 No.22590532 Report

Quoted By: >>22590558 >>22590581

>>22590395

>Typical /vp/ competitive "connoisseur"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:56:57 No.22590536 Report

Quoted By: >>22590548

>>22590527
50% of legendaries arent better than the average mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:57:51 No.22590548 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590536
Yeah, that's why every single OU team has 2/3 legendaries. Sure isn't better than non-legendaries.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:58:19 No.22590555 Report

Quoted By: >>22590606

>>22590523
but why? There's a limit to only one per team and no hold items, it's the same thing as Megas. So it's automatically balanced even if it has a higher BST.
>>22590506
so you'd be ok if, instead of banning Pokémon, Smogon deemed a Pokémon "Legendary" in their metagame and then banned it? After all it's their Metagame with their rules, as they can make a Pokémon "OU" or "UU" they can also say it's a legendary or not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:58:32 No.22590558 Report

Quoted By: >>22590698

>>22590532
Aegislash wasn't banned for being broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:58:33 No.22590559 Report

Quoted By:

remember that Legendary is just a label

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:59:01 No.22590563 Report

Quoted By:

>Swagger Clause
On the fence. Wasn't really broken but did improve the metagame's heath.
>Baton Pass Clause
Same as Swagger.
>Aegislash ban
Bring it back. The voting process was bullshit and it didn't gain anything from ORAS.
>Blaziken ban
Yes. Hits hard, gets very fast, and can even team support with Baton Pass.
>Darkrai ban
Yes. Too fast and strong when paired with Dark Void.
>Deoxys bans
Deo-D and Deo-S should be retested, but Deo-N and Deo-A are too powerful.
>Genesect ban
I'd be open to a retest, but probably would get banned again.
>Mega Gengar ban
Hell yes.
>Greninja ban
Yes. Only had obscure counters and had too much influence on teambuilding.
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Does anybody defend this?
>Mega Lucario ban
Same as Genesect.
>Mega Mawile ban
I always wanted the thing gone since it hits way too hard for how good defensively it is.
>Mega Salamence ban
Same as Mega Kangaskhan.
>Sky Shaymin ban
Nobody voted against this ban. 100% justified.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 16:59:32 No.22590569 Report

Quoted By: >>22591357

>>22590415

Because they're overly reliant on hax and to counter the playstyle you literally have to lose to all three other archetypes just to beat one playstyle. Stop being a hipster and play with skill, not by trying to manipulate the RNG.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:01:31 No.22590579 Report

Quoted By: >>22590738

>Swagger Clause
Swagplay keys did it. Worthwhile ban.
>Baton Pass Clause
Also worthwhile, only because it got rid of shitty gimick Bpass teams.
>Aegislash ban
Unwarranted, should be retested.
>Blaziken ban
Very warranted. One protect and you'd be swept.
>Darkrai ban
Who the fuck wants the fastest sleep setter in the game to be unbanned?
>Deoxys bans
Deoxys-N and A hit way too fucking hard. S and D are guaranteed hazards, so maybe retest with defog.
>Genesect ban
Rot in ubers.
>Mega Gengar ban
See Genesect
>Greninja ban
OU if Z or whatever has new priority move tutors.
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Deserved.
>Mega Lucario ban
Hits really fucking hard, but a breeze takes it out. Retest.
>Mega Mawile ban
Retest.
>Mega Salamence ban
Fuck yes that thing was banned for a reason.
>Sky Shaymin ban
Keep banned to keep this frail cancer out of OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:01:48 No.22590581 Report

Quoted By: >>22590754

>>22590532
>typical Smogonbaby who can't adapt to different things

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:02:26 No.22590588 Report

Quoted By: >>22590763

The only ban I don't fully agree with is Mega Mawile.

But seeing the state of OU right now, if they unbanned it, it would probably be the best (or one of the best) pokemon in that tier.

Like others have said, I think some pokemon deserve getting re-tested now, since ORAS brought a lot of new things to the meta.

But from what I've seen in Smogon's forums - although I haven't been on there for a while now, so don't quote me on this -, they don't love the idea of bringing some pokemon back to OU to see how they work.

Which is fine, it's their site and their meta, and they don't force anyone to play by their rules, not even on showdown.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:02:45 No.22590592 Report

Quoted By: >>22590645

>>22590214
The word is "probably." Say it with me. "PROB-AB-LY"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:04:32 No.22590606 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590555
>it's the same thing as Megas
could you name a mega with 720bst, swords dance and STAB extreme speed? Arceus was a dumb comparison

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:09:09 No.22590629 Report

Quoted By: >>22590657 >>22590661 >>22590663

>Aegislash got barely banned, mostly because of Smogon's corruption.
>Landorus the dog is the most used Pokemon by far and shits on Aegislash.
>Aegislash still has to remain banned because muh overcentralization.
>Landorus is somehow not overcentralizating with its 80% usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:13:51 No.22590645 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590592
prolly :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:16:17 No.22590657 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590629
>shits on Aeigislash
2hkoed by Shadow Ball, King's Shield can be used to scout

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:16:42 No.22590661 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590629
A pokemon that's used more than other pokemon isn't overcentralizing. It's a good pokemon that a lot of people choose to use, but it isn't necessary to do well. Overcentralization becomes a problem when a particular niche (usually a check/counter to a suspect pokemon) is only filled by one or two pokemon, and that niche needs to be filled in order to win consistently. Mega Salamence would be overcentralizing, not because everyone would want to use salamence, but because everyone would need to use mamoswine or something very similar in order to survive a team packing m-mence. Landorus is easier to deal with and therefore isn't an issue

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:17:11 No.22590663 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590629
everytime the genies comes into the argument smogon has a boner.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:17:41 No.22590666 Report

Quoted By: >>22590678 >>22590712

>>22590131
>Swagger Clause
bullshit. Confusion is part of the game and you should be able to deal with it. I'd ban Swagger+Foul play tho.
>Baton Pass Clause
Utter bullshit. You can't ban a strategy because it's strong. You just need to GIT GUD
>Aegislash ban
It was bullshit then, now with ORAS megas is even more useless
>Blaziken ban
kinda reasonable
>Darkrai ban
reasonable
>Deoxys bans
reasonable
>Genesect ban
reasonable
>Mega Gengar ban
I don't think it's THAT broken
>Greninja ban
bullshit
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
reasonable. That thing is just retarded
>Mega Lucario ban
same with gengar.
>Mega Mawile ban
bullshit. It was only banned because they already banned all the stronger threats in the tier.
>Mega Salamence ban
yeah I can see it
>Sky Shaymin ban
don't know about that, never faced one

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:18:35 No.22590671 Report

Quoted By: >>22590702

what if Aegislash DID get unbanned? who would benefit the most/least from that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:20:17 No.22590678 Report

Quoted By: >>22590693

>>22590666
>mega gengar, the pokemon almost banned from ubers, isn't THAT broken
Nice trips.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:23:21 No.22590693 Report

Quoted By: >>22590709

>>22590678
>Tyranitar used Pursuit
>It's super effective
>Gengar fainted

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1419378116228.png, 629KiB, 592x632

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:23:47 No.22590697 Report

Quoted By: >>22590877

>Swagger Clause
Lucky based, not broken.

>Baton Pass Clause
Haze is competitive move

>Aegislash ban
EQ is everywhere, Fire Special attackers need a use beyond killing Scizor and Ferrothorn

>Blaziken ban
It would be okay if Baton Pass couldn't paired with Protect.

>Darkrai ban
Uber Material

>Deoxys bans
Uber Material, Deoxys-D takes the place of more balanced Hazard setters

>Genesect ban
Uber Material

>Mega Gengar ban
Uber Material

>Greninja ban
Get gud

>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Focus Blasts , Mach Punches are everywhere and Mega Sableye is around . But I can see the point, Borderline.

>Mega Lucario ban
Uber, Gamefreak's FurrySue

>Mega Mawile ban
It's very cool not to rely on Counter and Foul Play to deal with Megagross. Bring the Fairy back.

>Mega Salamence ban
So, you can deal with DD Weakness Policy Multiscale Dragonite and Mega Salamence without any priority move you can't ?

>Sky Shaymin ban
Same as MegaMance, you just have to run Ice.
With Land-T, Gliscor, Dragonite, Mega Mance you belive you can survive without Ice and Priority Ice? Maybe Mega Gallade will stop being mocked because of Inner Focus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:24:17 No.22590698 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590558

The reason Smogon gave for why it was banned doesn't necessarily mean that every Smogon player agrees with that reason. I DO think it was broken, along with overcentralizing. Makes no difference anyway, the piece of shit got banned no matter the reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:24:30 No.22590702 Report

Quoted By: >>22590725

>>22590671
Gallade would not like it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:25:00 No.22590705 Report

Quoted By:

Swagplay was banned because every faggot in the ladder started using it and it turned every match into a massive luck shitfest

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:25:45 No.22590709 Report

Quoted By: >>22590722

>>22590693
Gengar used Focus Blast!
Or alternatively
Gengar used Substitute!
Gengar used Disable!
Gengar used Perish Song!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:26:01 No.22590712 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590666
>I'd ban Swagger+Foul play tho.
It's just as much a part of the game as swagger itself. Except getting your opponent to +2 to foul play them is an actual strategy.

Why is that any more worth banning than just swagger? The entire idea was that no legitimate strategy besides foul play+swagger used swagger, so why keep it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:26:16 No.22590715 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590214
>skymin retested

you fucking what

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:26:20 No.22590717 Report

Quoted By: >>22590751

>Swagger Clause
Disagree. Ban the strategy not the move.
>Baton Pass Clause
Disagree. There are too many crybabies.
>Aegislash ban
Strongly Disagree after ORAS changes.
>Blaziken ban
Agree.
>Darkrai ban
Agree.
>Deoxys bans
D and S should be retested. Agree with the rest.
>Genesect ban
Deserves a retest, although I agree with its ban.
>Mega Gengar ban
Agree.
>Greninja ban
Disagree.
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Strongly agree.
>Mega Lucario ban
Deserves to be tested with ORAS changes.
>Mega Mawile ban
Strongly disagree.
>Mega Salamence ban
Agree.
>Sky Shaymin ban
Agree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:27:01 No.22590722 Report

Quoted By: >>22590848

>>22590709
>Focus Miss
If Gengar subs, Gengar will be slaughtered by Earthquake immediately afterward.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:27:34 No.22590725 Report

Quoted By: >>22590955

>>22590702
any Psychic and Fighting-type not named Mega-Lopunny and Mega-Metagross would not like it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:27:47 No.22590729 Report

Quoted By:

my favorite team is landorus-t

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:29:12 No.22590738 Report

Quoted By: >>22590968

>>22590579

S isn't guaranteed hazards with priority Taunt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:30:21 No.22590746 Report

Quoted By:

RMT: Talonflame, Rotom-W, Thundurus, Landorus-T, M-Lopunny, Chansey :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:30:27 No.22590749 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590131
I agree with everyone of them, the meta has gotten considerably better after everyone of those fucks got kicked out of OU

I'm iffy on Aegislash, but the meta DID improve after it was booted

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:30:58 No.22590750 Report

Quoted By:

>Swagger Clause
Up until gen 6, paraswag had always been a gimmicky tactic relegated to lower tiers that wasn't really viable. But klefki has prankster, an incredible defensive typing, good bulk, and a great support movepool. I'm glad this ban went through
>Baton Pass Clause
Baton Pass teams always remind me of Exodia decks in Yugioh, they lack player interaction and only play by stalling while getting to their key combo pieces, then auto when unless you have a very situational counter to their tactic. I don't think it was banworthy, but I do think that people who play either are boring asshats who just want what they percieve as an easy win
>Aegislash ban
He is certainly one of those pokemon that has the potential to be top of the tier, I think the ban could've gone either way, and I wouldn't be angry.
>Blaziken ban
He's not as good as he was in his heyday, but I still don't think he's healthy for the OU meta. If he didn't have BP, I would be fine with him staying but I agree with the ban and the way they did it too, they didn't need to resuspect him
>Darkrai ban
why the fuck would anyone think he was ok for OU in the first place
>Deoxys bans
Deoxys-D is the only one that is even arguable, and he's always been on that border between Ubers and OU, I wouldn't be surprised if he's OU next gen
>Genesect ban
Same as darkrai and Deoxys
>Mega Gengar ban
Absolutely necessary
>Greninja ban
I can't say that I like this ban but with the ORAS additions to his movepool, I definitely see why he was suspect, and I'm not butthurt about the ban
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
>Mega Lucario ban
These two were way too strong for OU
>Mega Mawile ban
This is the only one I don't agree with
>Mega Salamence ban
I wouldn't be a vocal supporter of the ban but I don't really care, although I'm kind of glad he's in ubers because Pinsir gets to shine more. It doesn't really make a difference to me though
>Sky Shaymin ban
Same as Darkrai and Genesect

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:31:01 No.22590751 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590717
Deoxys-D was banned during the meta with Aegislash and Bisharp everywhere. Why would you think that it would be even less broken now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:31:14 No.22590754 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590581

I can adapt to the adaptable, which is why I was against Deo-S and Mawile being banned not to mention opened to retest of the above and Genesect.

You cannot adapt to Aegislash. It's a broken mon by nature and is way too much for OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:32:58 No.22590762 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590214
>skymin

leave

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:32:59 No.22590763 Report

Quoted By: >>22590806

>>22590588

M-Mawile is almost walled by M-Metagross and not only that, its Sucker Punches can be played around with Tough Claws Bullet Punch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:34:46 No.22590782 Report

Quoted By:

i would like it if Mawilite got back to OU monotype at least

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:37:24 No.22590792 Report

Quoted By:

Deo-s should be unbanned, spooky sword deserves a retest, everything else fuck you have fun in ubers

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:39:41 No.22590806 Report

Quoted By: >>22590823

>>22590763
Nigger can't even switch in on a Knock Off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:41:08 No.22590823 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590806
if you run knock off m-mawile you're disabled

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:46:54 No.22590848 Report

Quoted By: >>22590856

>>22590722
>using anything but scarf Tran vs Gengar

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:49:02 No.22590856 Report

Quoted By: >>22590960

>>22590848
>"hurr tyranitar doesn't beat gengar"
>get proven wrong
>"hurr muh perfect situation for gengar"
Stop posting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:49:35 No.22590861 Report

Quoted By: >>22590867 >>22590897

>>22590131
Ban everything, I don't give a fuck.
Thanks to Smogon becoming shot I started playing VGC, much more fun

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:50:37 No.22590867 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590861
*shit not shot

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:51:57 No.22590877 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590697
No.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:56:14 No.22590897 Report

Quoted By: >>22590904

>>22590861
>not playing smogdubs

wow it's like you hate actual fun

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:57:50 No.22590904 Report

Quoted By: >>22590917

>>22590897
>playing smogon
>after they banned mega salamence
Smogon needs to learn to git gud.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 17:58:07 No.22590905 Report

Quoted By:

>Swagger Clause
Unreasonable. They could have just banned it with prankster pokemon. You have the option to change attack ivs to 0 so it doesnt do so much damage
>Baton Pass Clause
Only one baton passer is overkill. 2 or 3 would be ok. Anything beyond that is unreasonable
>Aegislash ban
idk
>Blaziken ban
Blaze should be allowed
>Darkrai ban
Yep
>Deoxys bans
speed is a person fav to use. Also its not that bad. The others r. Defense less than the others
>Genesect ban
totally needed
>Mega Gengar ban
needed
>Greninja ban
unneeded but its too controlling of the meta atm
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
needed
>Mega Lucario ban
Kinda needed. Moreso than gren
>Mega Mawile ban
not needed at all
>Mega Salamence ban
2bulky with Intimidate and there arent enough good counters for it
>Sky Shaymin ban
flinch hax is no. It must go to dubbers

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:00:58 No.22590917 Report

Quoted By: >>22590933 >>22591000 >>22591043

>>22590904
>mega salamence
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/orasou-177872700

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:01:39 No.22590933 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590917
>singles

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:03:18 No.22590950 Report

Quoted By: >>22591196

>>22590131
>Swagger Clause
Didn't deserve to be banned, they're a bunch of pussies for banning it.
>Baton Pass Clause
I'm not exactly sure what the details of this clause are, and I'm too lazy to look it up, so I won't comment on it.
>Aegislash ban
No.
>Blaziken ban
I agree that Mega Blaziken should be banned, but I think that vanilla Blaziken is manageable in this metagame. I disagree with the ban.
>Darkrai ban
Yes.
>Deoxys ban
Yes.
>Genesect ban
Yes.
>Mega Gengar ban
Yes.
>Greninja ban
I'm on the fence on this one, leaning towards agreeing with the ban.
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Yes.
>Mega Lucario ban
No.
>Mega Mawile ban
No.
>Mega Salamence ban
Yes.
>Sky Shaymin ban
Yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:03:38 No.22590955 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590725

Mega Metagross doesn't like Aegislash whatsoever, even if it's running EQ.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:03:53 No.22590960 Report

Quoted By: >>22590999

>>22590856
When mega gengar is way faster than you scarf Mon.

Why would you even run earthquake on a ttar. Why would you ever run Assault Vest ttar.

Stop posting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:05:18 No.22590968 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590738
towards the end, a lot of those sets ran magic coat/rocks/spikes/attack. Then, they get hazards on turn 2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:07:53 No.22590999 Report

Quoted By: >>22591015 >>22591126

>>22590960
>Why would you ever run Assault Vest ttar.
Seriously?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:07:58 No.22591000 Report

Quoted By: >>22591073

>>22590917
>huge noob number 1 sweeps huge noob number 2 at the very bottom of the ladder
What are we supposed to see there?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:08:52 No.22591008 Report

Quoted By: >>22591011

>>22590289
Greninja would still be OU if not for Gunk Shot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:09:29 No.22591011 Report

Quoted By: >>22591039 >>22591069

>>22591008
>one move warrants banning an entire pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:09:35 No.22591015 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590999
are you saying assault vest ttar is good

Andrew

Andrew Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:10:03 No.22591019 Report

Quoted By: >>22591025 >>22591028 >>22591032 >>22591051 >>22591056 >>22591076

Not to sound too ignorant on this topic, but i seriously have no idea what makes Shaymin so overpowered, i've never had one to use in battle and i've never faced one

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:11:24 No.22591025 Report

Quoted By: >>22591041 >>22591047

>>22591019
Almost nothing can safely come in on Seed Flare.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:11:43 No.22591028 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591019
Do people seriously follow the smogon meta but play on cart exclusively?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:12:06 No.22591032 Report

Quoted By: >>22591047

>>22591019

Seed Flare, flinch forever, enough offense to kill what doesn't end up stun-locked.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:12:29 No.22591036 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590335
BL is already the UU banlist, and would make for a fun tier, but it doesn't really have enough Pokemon in it to warrant a new tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:12:57 No.22591039 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591011
If that move pushes the Pokemon into the category of being broken, then yes it does.

Example: Honchkrow in Gen IV UU. When DPPt were out, Honchkrow was hotly debated among UU players. Some wanted it banned, others didn't. Then along came HGSS, and with it, Honchkrow gained Brave Bird as an egg move, whereas previously it had to rely on Drill Peck. This one move made it so much more powerful, and pretty much everyone agreed that it needed to be banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:13:10 No.22591041 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591025
Against Skymin that is. Ground Shaymin has a shit speed tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:13:23 No.22591043 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590917
Worst battle ever
v
e
r

Andrew

Andrew Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:13:34 No.22591047 Report

Quoted By: >>22591053 >>22591066 >>22591087 >>22591088

>>22591032
>>22591025
why would they not just ban the move?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:14:16 No.22591051 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591019
It is literally the biggest fucking nigger ever

>127 speed
>Seed Flare has a 80% chance of dropping Sdef 2 stages
>AIR SLASH
>Perfect Coverage
I don't care how frail this shit is, but it's an asshole

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:14:34 No.22591052 Report

Quoted By: >>22591057

OP here, this is what people thinks so far. Get your conclusions and stop assuming I'm against all bans, I just asked for opinions on everything, even on the obvious, because some opinions are gold.

>Swagger Clause
6 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 6 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Baton Pass Clause
4 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 8 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Aegislash ban
0 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 10 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Blaziken ban
10 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 3 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Darkrai ban
11 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 1 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Deoxys bans
9 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 1 people at vp says it's an unfair ban / most people at vp says it's fair to retest D-S
>Genesect ban
8 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 3 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Mega Gengar ban
11 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 1 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Greninja ban
4 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 6 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
12 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 0 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Mega Lucario ban
4 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 7 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Mega Mawile ban
2 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 10 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Mega Salamence ban
8 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 2 people at vp says it's an unfair ban
>Sky Shaymin ban
9 people at vp says it's a fair ban / 3 people at vp says it's an unfair ban

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:14:40 No.22591053 Report

Quoted By: >>22591070

>>22591047
Short answer: Because smogon is full of retarded people. Applies to many questions.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1421531905226.gif, 2MiB, 396x240

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:15:14 No.22591056 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591019
Normal Shaymin isn't really overpowered
Sky Form however has good speed, can abuse serene grace air slashes and seed flare being the main thing here, is a base 120 move which has an easy 80% chance to drop your special defense by two stages. If you can tank the hit then you better hope to fuck you can last another with -2 special defense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:15:15 No.22591057 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591052
>vp
Simply a pig

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:15:20 No.22591059 Report

Quoted By:

>this thread
>pokémon retard don't like
>"I-it's overcentralizing, it's totally fair"
>pokémon retard like
>"just because it's used by every one, doesn't mean it's centralization, it's just a good pokémon that everyone likes"

You are retards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:15:23 No.22591061 Report

Quoted By: >>22591077 >>22591090

The shadow tag shit was corrupt as fuck and I'm surprised anybody still gives Smogon any sort of credibility after that mess, especially the way it got swept under the rug.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:16:06 No.22591066 Report

Quoted By: >>22591070 >>22591075

>>22591047

Why would you ever pick a mon if you weren't going to use the best set(s) possible?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:16:55 No.22591069 Report

Quoted By: >>22591085

>>22591011
When that move lets it deal with the majority of its viable counters, then it does.

Andrew 5172-2596-8846

Andrew 5172-2596-8846 Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:17:14 No.22591070 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591066
You've got a point, especially since it's Shaymin's signature
>>22591053
You also have a point judging from what i've heard, i've never used Smogon before but i was curious about getting into it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:17:24 No.22591073 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591000
I think the only thing worth seeing was how much of a retarded Pokemon Thundurus is.

>Glalie is gonna Ice Shard to kill it.
>Thunderwave says no.
>Abuse it to get a boost then proceed to kill, potentially sweeping.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:17:35 No.22591075 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591066
Yet Swagger is banned. I can see why anon-kun wants a Seed Flare ban.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:17:39 No.22591076 Report

Quoted By: >>22591102

>>22591019
>One of the fastest subseeders in the game
>100 base HP means that its Substitutes can't be broken by Seismic Toss
>120 base power move with an 80% chance to drop opponent's special defense coming off of 120 base special attack
>Flinchhax for days with Air Slash

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:17:40 No.22591077 Report

Quoted By: >>22591107

>>22591061
I'm surprized anyone gives smogon any sort of credibility since 2005. Don't expect them to stop anytime soon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:17:54 No.22591079 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590131
Well if there's a ban on Swagger and Baton Pass, a third of my team is already moot.

Also you forgot the Evasion Clause, if I'm not mistaken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:18:15 No.22591082 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590131
>Swagger Clause
Justified
>Baton Pass Clause
Justified
>Aegislash ban
Deserves to be unbanned
>Blaziken ban
Stay banned uber chicken
>Darkrai ban
Justified
>Deoxys bans
Depends on which form
>Genesect ban
No opinion
>Mega Gengar ban
Overpowered as fuck
>Greninja ban
Literal Glass Cannon, annoying pokemon that easly gets oneshotted by anything that can outspeed it or survive OHKO from him
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Unban it, it's would be shit in singles most of the times. No clue about doubles
>Mega Lucario ban
Stay banned furry overlord
>Mega Mawile ban
Deserves to be unbanned, so much shit counters it right now it wouldn't even be that powerful
>Mega Salamence ban
If you manage to get a DD off w/o getting oneshot you've basically won the match so yeah, justified.
>Sky Shaymin ban
No opinion

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:18:25 No.22591085 Report

Quoted By: >>22591103 >>22591144

>>22591069
So what? Then you just change to different counters. It's called adapting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:18:52 No.22591087 Report

Quoted By: >>22591097

>>22591047
Slippery slope. If we let one Uber in, but disallow a move or ability, we have to let them all in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:18:55 No.22591088 Report

Quoted By: >>22591095 >>22591097

>>22591047
They've discussed banning moves before, and they decided that banning specific moves on specific Pokemon was too complex of a ban, and they did not want to open that can of worms

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:19:16 No.22591090 Report

Quoted By: >>22591106 >>22591204

>>22591061
>shadow tag shit
the what

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:19:57 No.22591095 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591088
Forgot to add: Skymin has multiple moves which make it overpowered. Seed Flare, Leech Seed, Substitute, and Air Slash are all reasons to ban it.

Andrew 5172-2596-8846

Andrew 5172-2596-8846 Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:20:09 No.22591097 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591088
Fair enough
>>22591087
i can guess that's a bad thing, since i don't really know

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:20:35 No.22591100 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590131
If people are really going to treat Ubers like an actual tier with bans and shit, then we need a BL0.
Baton Pass was limited to one Pokemon, which would make Blaziken obvious when it's gonna pass. I don't know why people are so afraid of it.
I would have liked the tiers to reset on ORAS release, I think Aegislash and Gengar have more thing that can check. But I know enough about the whole system that I know I won't get my way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:20:41 No.22591102 Report

Quoted By: >>22591143

>>22591076
>100 base HP means that its Substitutes can't be broken by Seismic Toss
I loled. Max HP Skymin is definitely where it's at.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:20:46 No.22591103 Report

Quoted By: >>22591140 >>22591163

>>22591085
I REALLY don't want to start shit, especially because the Gren ban is over and done with, but name me one pokemon that can safely switch into any of his viable potential moves taking a 3hko at the least AND threaten it back

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:20:47 No.22591104 Report

Quoted By: >>22591118 >>22591119

>>22590131
>Swagger Clause
Bullshit. Swagger is a fine move. It's not even broken, it can backfire horribly if misplayed. The issue was Foul Play, which paired with Swagger could deal a lot of damage. Foul Play should have been banned instead.

>Baton Pass Clause
I'm not sure on whether to agree or disagree, especially because of the context this ban happened: a guy found a flawless BP team.

>Aegislash ban
No, this one was wrong. Aegi required a bit of prediction skill to be played efficiently, and a misplay means death. Maybe needs retesting with all the ORAS bullshit.

>Blaziken ban
Eh. It was fine because of how it did in gen V but Talonflame would keep it in check very easily. Needs retesting.

>Darkrai ban
It's fine.

>Deoxys bans
Fine too.

>Genesect ban
Ditto.

>Mega Gengar ban
Uncompetitive as fuck. It's fine.

>Greninja ban
In XY it was fine, but ORAS gave it two new tools and now it cannot be countered. I'm fine with it being gone.

>Mega Kangaskhan ban
MegaMilf is just too broken in simgles.

>Mega Lucario ban
Won't comment on this one. Maybe it's the same issue as Grenigger.

>Mega Mawile ban
This one is completely and utter bullshit. Mega Mawile can be kept in check with Talonflame way too easily and Megazard Y kills it just too easily.

>Mega Salamence ban
Go and stay go.

>Sky Shaymin ban
Why would anyone want it back?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:20:55 No.22591106 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591090
Think he's on about perish trapping.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:21:11 No.22591107 Report

Quoted By: >>22591117

>>22591077

You know each tier has different heads, right? Partially why UU is the bee's knees so far.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:22:54 No.22591117 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591107
>implying kokoloko isn't hitler

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:22:56 No.22591118 Report

Quoted By: >>22591129

>>22591104
>Eh. It was fine because of how it did in gen V but Talonflame would keep it in check very easily. Needs retesting.

This. M-chicken isn't a thing anymore with smogonbird flying arround.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:23:11 No.22591119 Report

Quoted By: >>22591133 >>22591141

>>22591104
The issue was NOT foul play, I can't believe all the <1200 shits who say this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:23:59 No.22591126 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590999
Yes what is the point? Waste of potential. Its only use is being a weak choice ttar that is still slow.

If you use scarf you're just fast enough to trap what you need to. When you use band you are just a strong mofo.

Scarf or stealth rock are ttars best sets. If you're going to waste a Mon make sure its not ttar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:24:06 No.22591129 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591118
>>22590343

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:24:20 No.22591133 Report

Quoted By: >>22591155

>>22591119
How many mons do you see packing foul play nowadays?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:24:46 No.22591140 Report

Quoted By: >>22591150 >>22591151 >>22591160 >>22591171 >>22591176 >>22591193

>>22591103
Chansey. Everyone uses it, and it can use Toxic to cripple Greninja.
Klefki also beats the shit out of Greninja with priority Thunder Wave.
Conkeldurr destroys and murders Greninja in ten million ways with just one mach punch.
Porygon2 completely walls Greninja and destroys it with Thunder Wave.
AV Skuntank can tank two hits, and destroys Greninja with two Sucker Punches.
All of these are viable in OU. And that's not even all of the counters and checks. And then there's revenge killers like Talonflame who tears Greninja limb-by-limb with Brave Bird and turns Greninja into edible frog legs.

There's tons of counters and checks to Greninja. Smogon just needs to git gud and learn them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:24:53 No.22591141 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591119
So Swagger was?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:25:01 No.22591143 Report

Quoted By: >>22591148

>>22591102
Max HP max speed subseeder Skymin is perfectly viable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:25:28 No.22591144 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591085
>Then you just change to different counters.
Then you have to carry the one or two shitmons that reliably counter you, and are really only useful for that one job of countering Greninja.

Sure, Esclavier can OHKO Mewtwo while being 2HKO at best by any Mewtwo not carrying Fire Blast, but that doesn't mean we should bring Mewtwo down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:25:35 No.22591145 Report

Quoted By: >>22591162

>>22590214
>retest aegislash
Fuck no. That thing has even less counters now, the only thing that stands a chance as a potential counter is lopunny

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:26:12 No.22591148 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591143
No, it's not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:26:28 No.22591150 Report

Quoted By: >>22591167 >>22591174

>>22591140
Add Tentacruel too. But what do you expect from guys saying shit like "if someone drags a pokemon from UU it's because its OP!"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:26:47 No.22591151 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591140
And Greninja loves entry hazards, so every time it gets forced out by your revenge killer, it will definitely enjoy coming in again.

Of course it's always the Greninja player who has 3 layers of spikes, Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes up, while the other has nothing and a team of shitmons, but such is life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:27:01 No.22591155 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591133
The only OU mons that even ever did were Mandibuzz and Klefki

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:27:36 No.22591160 Report

Quoted By: >>22591164

>>22591140
But what if it's mixed Greninja, which is pretty common? Or what if it is running Taunt, which is also common? Greninja is too versatile, you might think you have the perfect counter, but you can't reliably switch them in because Greninja could be running the set that beats that "counter".

Assault Vest Skuntank is not even remotely viable in OU. Revenge killers are a shaky argument at best, because you're admitting that Greninja managed to knock out one of your Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:27:52 No.22591162 Report

Quoted By: >>22591239

>>22591145
>Lopunny used Fake Out!
>King's Shield
>gg, no re

I should probably give it a buffing move or something. Ice Punch is a bit too situational and it's two STAB moves deal enough damage as it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:28:25 No.22591163 Report

Quoted By: >>22591201 >>22591240

>>22591103
When will Smogontards realize that switching in defensive counters is irrelevant outside of stall teams? The game is offensive oriented, you are not expected to have a safe switch in to everything on teams that only have 2-3 defensive pokemon, learn to fucking outplay your opponent

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:28:32 No.22591164 Report

Quoted By: >>22591182

>>22591160
Literally nobody runs Taunt on a mixed Greninja.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:28:50 No.22591167 Report

Quoted By: >>22591168

>>22591150
>Extrasensory

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:29:35 No.22591168 Report

Quoted By: >>22591189

>>22591167
Sorry, I forgot smogoners run pokemon with at least 10 moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:29:57 No.22591171 Report

Quoted By: >>22591175

>>22591140
>AV Skuntank
>viable in OU
kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:30:25 No.22591174 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591150

>But what do you expect from guys saying shit like "if someone drags a pokemon from UU it's because its OP!"

Because unless that Pokemon had utility in the first place it begs the question if said pokemon is centralizing. Shit like 'Furfrou being a MegaMom check' only means so much if it's dead-weight if she never shows up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:30:26 No.22591175 Report

Quoted By: >>22591181 >>22591186

>>22591171
It's viable if it can kill Greninja.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:30:27 No.22591176 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591140
I'm against banning Greninja, too, and agree that Smogon cannot play this game for the life of them. But you're probably not much better...
>Chansey. Everyone uses it, and it can use Toxic to cripple Greninja.
Laughingpproteangunkshot.jpeg
>Klefki also beats the shit out of Greninja with priority Thunder Wave.
A lot of shit does. Cannot switch in safely.
>Conkeldurr destroys and murders Greninja in ten million ways with just one mach punch.
Conkeldurr exists to give out setup opportunities. Also, Greninja can threaten with Extrasensory.
>Porygon2 completely walls Greninja and destroys it with Thunder Wave.
Yeah, sad thing there's Knock Off everywhere.
>AV Skuntank can tank two hits, and destroys Greninja with two Sucker Punches.
I loled at Skuntank.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:31:17 No.22591181 Report

Quoted By: >>22591194

>>22591175
And it's dead weight if Greninja isn't around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:31:20 No.22591182 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591164
I don't mean on the same set, you retard. You have no way of knowing which set Greninja is running. Sure, you could switch your Chansey in on Greninja and it turns out to be a pure special attacker and you wall it. But what if it's not a pure special attacker? What if it's running Taunt? You have no reliable switch-ins to Greninja because sure, it could be running the set that your Pokemon counters, but it could also be running the set that beats your "counter". Your only option is to run multiple counters on the same team, and that is the very definition of overcentralizing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:31:30 No.22591186 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591175
now that's overcentralizing

it doesn't do very much or threaten anything else but it can stop you from getting swept by a single mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:31:44 No.22591189 Report

Quoted By: >>22593588

>>22591168
which shows how much you (and a good portion of /vp/) know about competitive

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:32:20 No.22591193 Report

Quoted By: >>22591297

>>22591140
Chansey and duck are the only ones that counter it

Klefki is 2hko'd by HP Fire, and Grens started running Extrasensory specifically to deal with Conk

>AV skuntank viable in ou

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:32:31 No.22591194 Report

Quoted By: >>22591218 >>22591221 >>22591228

>>22591181
It can take on plenty of OU mons. You just need to git gud.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1421698662720.jpg, 68KiB, 338x506

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:32:49 No.22591196 Report

Quoted By: >>22591214 >>22591215

>>22590950
>I agree that Mega Blaziken should be banned, but I think that vanilla Blaziken is manageable in this metagame

Are you clinically retarded? LO Blaziken is Superior to M-Blaziken overall. KFC's is one of those few cases where their mega is worse than the original mon, like Garchomp.

The same will happen to M-Greninja.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:33:03 No.22591201 Report

Quoted By: >>22591240

>>22591163
This. Smogontards will never understand, though. I've seen fucking VGC players who don't grasp that concept...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:33:21 No.22591204 Report

Quoted By: >>22591217

>>22591090
Basically, for the shadow tag ban they threw out some votes (and they were all ones that were in favor of not banning it) because qualified testers had to input a reason WHY they think it should be banned/unbanned, unlike other suspect tests where you all you had to do was vote and be done with it. The council thought "oh, their reasons are bad" and threw out those votes. Chaos stepped in and said "No that's stupid" and so the whole shadow tag ban never happened because people called the council out on its bullshit. Then it promptly got swept under the rug.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:34:28 No.22591214 Report

Quoted By: >>22591227 >>22591512

>>22591196
if M-Greninja gets a 20 spread everyone will be fucked

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:34:36 No.22591215 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591196
All right, I don't actually know that much about Blaziken. But Talonflame is a pretty reliable counter, and it also happens to be one of the most common Pokemon in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:34:43 No.22591217 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591204
And Melee Mewtwo got executed as a way of washing their hands.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:34:49 No.22591218 Report

Quoted By: >>22591233 >>22591237

>>22591194
Except for anything that learns Earthquake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:35:00 No.22591221 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591194
are you gonna back that up or are you just going to keep saying git gud

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:35:44 No.22591227 Report

Quoted By: >>22591242 >>22591243

>>22591214
>+10 attack.
>+20 defense.
>+30 special attack
>+20 special defense.
>+30 speed.
>Ability: Limber.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:35:46 No.22591228 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591194
>It can take on plenty of OU mons

Maybe if your opponent is retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:35:57 No.22591233 Report

Quoted By: >>22591250 >>22591257

>>22591218
better stop using the likes of heatran and tyranitar then, what a bunch of shitmons

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:36:19 No.22591237 Report

Quoted By: >>22591257

>>22591218
>2015
>still overusing EQ
It's not Advance anymore...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:36:36 No.22591239 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591162
it does get power up punch

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:36:39 No.22591240 Report

Quoted By: >>22591256 >>22591258 >>22591264

>>22591201
>>22591163
If you can't get a pokemon to kill it in without saccing something, not in mid game or late game, but potentially at the very start of the match, there's a problem

Especially since to get something to deal with Greninja in, losing a sixth of your team, then the opponent can just switch out Gren to something that checks your Greninja check

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:36:45 No.22591242 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591227
I meant +20 special attack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:36:48 No.22591243 Report

Quoted By: >>22591260

>>22591227
>No more Protean

Literally useless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:37:50 No.22591250 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591233
Heatran and Tyranitar have merits outside of countering a single Pokemon. Not to mention that they have ways of getting around Earthquake, such as Air Balloon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:38:25 No.22591256 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591240
>then the opponent can just switch out Gren to something that checks your Greninja check
And you predict it with a double switch, U-Turn, etc. God, this game is so hard to play.

Also, I'm not in favour of fucking Assault Vest Skuntank, but bringing up Earthquake on something that is meant to try to tank Special hits is stupid..

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:38:34 No.22591257 Report

Quoted By: >>22591294

>>22591233
Heatran and Tyranitar have uses outside of being counters to a single Pokemon.

>>22591237
>2015
>not using earthquake
>when landorus is the most-used OU mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:38:49 No.22591258 Report

Quoted By: >>22591267 >>22591291

>>22591240
This works both ways you know, Greninja is so frail that to get it in safely in order to attack you usually need to sack something yourself. It's just how offensive Pokemon work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:39:36 No.22591260 Report

Quoted By: >>22591278 >>22591296

>>22591243
And that's why it sounds like something Gamefreak would do. They do like Greninja, but they never do shit that makes sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:40:11 No.22591264 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591240
Dude, it's Gen VII. Your "Greninja check" is counter-free as well. If you cannot punish the switch out of Greninja accordingly, you're a shit player.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:40:26 No.22591267 Report

Quoted By: >>22591303 >>22591306

>>22591258
I beg you to show me a high rated team that ran greninja with no slow uturner/volt switcher

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:41:25 No.22591278 Report

Quoted By: >>22591329

>>22591260
>something GameFreak would do
>make a Pokemon less stupid

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:43:45 No.22591291 Report

Quoted By: >>22591313

>>22591258
Have you ever played offense?

You dictate the pace of the game, you hold the momentum. U-turn and voltturn pivot mons are essential in offense. Thats why glue mons like lando rotom are so good. Also clever predictions get your Pokemon in for free and on the upperhand

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:44:09 No.22591294 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591257
>2015
>not being able to read
I'm just saying that EQ has become quite predictable in usage (on Landorus for example) and isn't enough to justify something being a shitmon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:44:31 No.22591296 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591260
Yes because everyone and his mother got a Mega before luke and Charizard did it right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:44:35 No.22591297 Report

Quoted By: >>22591309

>>22591193
breloom and infernape can both oneshot it with mach punch

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:44:40 No.22591303 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591267
>usually

Also being supported with U-turn/Volt Switch has nothing to do with Greninja, you can use those tools to give yourself an advantage with any Pokemon. Or again, just learn to play the damn game and don't let yourself get into a position where Greninja gets a free turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:45:31 No.22591306 Report

Quoted By: >>22591310

>>22591267
You do realize, that you argue in favor of the guy you quoted by saying that every successful Greninja team needs to run support?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:46:01 No.22591309 Report

Quoted By: >>22591330

>>22591297
Can either of them switch into Extrasensory or Ice Beam/Hydro Pump respectively?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:46:10 No.22591310 Report

Quoted By: >>22591327

>>22591306
He's a fucking win condition, why wouldn't you support it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:46:40 No.22591313 Report

Quoted By: >>22591323

>>22591291
copypasta?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:47:57 No.22591323 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591313
No.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:48:32 No.22591327 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591310
>win condition
>gunk miss
Welcome to the 1400 area of the ladder.

All joking aside, you still didn't make a single point anyhow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:48:42 No.22591329 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591278
I'm talking about removing a top tier ability to replace it with something the Pokemon has no use for, or can barely use. Like Healer Audino or Strong Jaw Sharpedo, while not letting it have Fire Fang or Thunder Fang. The same with a Prankster Pokemon that has to wait for one turn for it to work, No guard on a Pokemon that only benefits with Hurricane, Sand Force, and you can keep going.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:48:52 No.22591330 Report

Quoted By: >>22591352 >>22591360

>>22591309
Greninja players can't read minds. They're not going to predict a switch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:50:42 No.22591343 Report

Quoted By: >>22591350 >>22591367 >>22591376

>just git gud
>just outpredict them

you people are morons, the argument is that if two people of equal skill battle, the one with a greninja has a significant advantage over the one who doesn't have a greninja on their team

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:51:31 No.22591350 Report

Quoted By: >>22591365 >>22591369 >>22591414

>>22591343
>equal skill
>in a game of rock-paper-scissor

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:51:39 No.22591352 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591330
Unless you've scouted for moves before hand (which means your team isn't at 100%HP at the very least) you don't know what it runs either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:51:55 No.22591357 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590569
I used swagger more so for foul play buff rather than the hax and baton pass doesn't rely on hax at all

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:52:05 No.22591360 Report

Quoted By: >>22591436

>>22591330
This is Smogon we are talking about. The Greninja player will predict you every time, while if it gets threatened by Talonflame, it will switch in its Tyranitar and the Talonflame player will Brave Bird, all while eating Stealth Rock damage, while Greninja comes in unscathed every time. I should also remind you that Greninja has no reason to switch out both times because it's running Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Hidden Power Fire for Ferrothorn, Extrasensory for Conkeldurr, Gunk Shot for the fairies, Hidden Power Grass for Rotom, Spikes and Taunt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:52:35 No.22591365 Report

Quoted By: >>22591393

>>22591350
Stop shitposting. Its not rock paper scissors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:52:39 No.22591367 Report

Quoted By: >>22591378

>>22591343
>muh equal skill
Silence.

Greninja users are guaranteed to be less skilled than their opponent, so they're easy as fuck to outpredict.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:52:45 No.22591369 Report

Quoted By: >>22591385 >>22591406

>>22591350
it makes me sad that some people in smogon actually take pokemon seriously

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:53:40 No.22591376 Report

Quoted By: >>22591391

>>22591343
>Greninja knows every fucking move in the world

Are you retarded? Just fucking scout his shit or outspeed it jesus christ. Literally everyone runs the same shit on that pokemon

Water type move
Ice type move
Dark type
Poison type
Grass type
Sometimes Ground
Sometimes Flying

It does get STAB from every fucking attack but any pokemon with some decent defense or a priority can easly oneshot it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:54:12 No.22591378 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591367
>greninja players

Anyone can use greninja. Do you honestly think everyone runs one team all the time and refuses to change it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:54:58 No.22591385 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591369
This.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:55:54 No.22591391 Report

Quoted By: >>22591421 >>22591443

>>22591376
Scouting out greninja is one of the most retarded things you can do

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:55:59 No.22591393 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591365
Every Pokémon player starts out with this delusion. Don't worry, you'll see.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:57:29 No.22591406 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591369
just like people here, right

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:58:05 No.22591414 Report

Quoted By: >>22591439

>>22591350
It's only RPS at 1000 Elo

If you're playing the game on a turn by turn basis (aka RPS), you're going to get your ass whooped by any decent player

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 18:58:34 No.22591421 Report

Quoted By: >>22591468

>>22591391
Just use Chansey or Porygon2 then. They can wall everything Greninja throws at them.

It's easy as fuck to scout Greninja.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:00:07 No.22591436 Report

Quoted By: >>22591722 >>22592888

>>22591360
Greninja @ God's Baton
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spe
Smogon Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Extrasensory
- Facade
- Grass Knot
- Haze
- Hidden Power Fire
- Hidden Power Grass
- Hydro Pump
- Mind Reader
- Night Slash
- Power-Up Punch
- Protect
- Rock Slide
- Scald
- Shadow Sneak
- Spikes
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Toxic Spikes
- U-Turn
- Water Shuriken

:^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:00:21 No.22591439 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591414
Why do you assume I think a game of Pokémon of N turns equals a game of N rounds of RPS?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:00:35 No.22591443 Report

Quoted By: >>22591470 >>22591495 >>22591518

>>22591391
>scouting is the most retarded thing you can do

Literally l2p mate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:01:59 No.22591468 Report

Quoted By: >>22591479 >>22591506

>>22591421
That's what the whole argument about Greninja is about. If you're forced to run Chansey just to not lose to Greninja, it's overcentralizing the meta, even if he has less usage than Genies because you aren't forced to run a counter to genies to still win (though you should at least be prepared for them)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:02:08 No.22591470 Report

Quoted By: >>22591495

>>22591443
Tbh, scouting something as frail as greninja threatening with that much damage output, is inefficient. Just kill it off quickly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:03:16 No.22591479 Report

Quoted By: >>22591499 >>22591548

>>22591468
Every-fucking-one uses Chansey anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:04:44 No.22591495 Report

Quoted By: >>22591518 >>22591537

>>22591470
>>22591443

Just Mach Punch it for fuck sake. It's literally just one shot, pretty much anything can wreck that pkmn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:05:14 No.22591499 Report

Quoted By: >>22591517

>>22591479
If youre running chansey on anything but stall you deserve to lose

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:05:44 No.22591506 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591468
>not running a sp.tank and a physical tank in the same team

LE AGGRO PLAYER MINDSET

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 3293beed0d685211a4e792330a3f8dae.jpg, 113KiB, 791x585

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:06:12 No.22591512 Report

Quoted By: >>22591523 >>22591567 >>22591569

>>22591214
I'm genuinely curious here, what spread would M-Greninja need to have to outshine a LO Greninja? Because i'm just not seeing it. Regardless of what you do to it, it seems like there's no reason to go Mega over Life Orb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:06:45 No.22591517 Report

Quoted By: >>22591533

>>22591499

Angry faggot that runs some retarded ultra-offensive team who probably gets raped by any random stall team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:06:51 No.22591518 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591443
If you're scouting something that can potentially OHKO or 2hko all but a handful of pokemon, and you don't have one of those few pokemon on your team, you are betting the game on the assumption that he isn't running the move that OHKOs you

>>22591495
I don't want to start getting into situational bullshit but if Greninja has already changed his type, which is quite conceivable if you are switching into it, Mach Punch isn't an OHKO at neutral effectiveness unless it's coming from choice band

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:07:15 No.22591523 Report

Quoted By: >>22591577

>>22591512
Just dump 70/80 points in sp.atk. and then dump 20/30 in speed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:08:46 No.22591533 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591517
Been playing all playstyles since always and raped one of you shitters with stall today :]

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:09:54 No.22591537 Report

Quoted By: >>22591547

>>22591495
Greninja can outlive a Mach Punch from a healthy Guts Conkeldurr

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:10:54 No.22591547 Report

Quoted By: >>22591566

>>22591537
>what is life orb recoil

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:10:55 No.22591548 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591479
Chansey 7.25289%

Those are Chansey's usage stats from before the greninja suspect

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:15:00 No.22591566 Report

Quoted By: >>22591627

>>22591547
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 212-252 (74.1 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:15:03 No.22591567 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591512
What makes Greninja op is protean, not his stat spread. The moment he loses protean he becomes shit no matter what his stats are ( unless he manages to keep his 120+ speed and get some 100-110 sp def and def which is highly unlikely to happen )

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:15:20 No.22591569 Report

Quoted By: >>22591587 >>22591617

>>22591512
I don't even know why people use Megas. They are all outranked by their normal counterparts with a Life Orb.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO gunk_shot_by_arturoez-d8dpffk.jpg, 135KiB, 900x707

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:16:29 No.22591577 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591523
That's the thing though. There's no way we'll see stat gains like those. Realistically we will get something like 30-40 on offenses and the rest on speed or something. I'm not sure that's enough to make up for the lack of Life Orb, EVEN if you're not getting recoil.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:17:32 No.22591587 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591569
Great so I should run charizard audino beedrill kanga mawile lopunny all LO and I would win?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:21:53 No.22591617 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591569
>Mawile
>Kangaskhan
>beedrill
>audino, glalie (although they're shit in both cases)
>pidgeot
>sceptile
>Lopunny
>swampert
>altaria
>metagross
>rayquaza
>gallade
>diancie
>venusaur
>charizard
>gengar
>lucario
>pinsir
>manectric
>houndoom
>medicham

>better with LO

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:23:39 No.22591627 Report

Quoted By: >>22591688

>>22591566
252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 474-558 (165.7 - 195.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

BRUH...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:24:39 No.22591636 Report

Quoted By: >>22591708

>people actually justifying a pokemon that's stronger and has better coverage than Deoxys-A

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:31:38 No.22591688 Report

Quoted By: >>22591716 >>22591758

>>22591627
>+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. -6 0 HP / 0- SpD Geodude in Rain: 2533140-2980168 (21109500 - 24834733.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bruh...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:34:07 No.22591708 Report

Quoted By: >>22591736 >>22591746

>>22591636
>Comparing greninja to Deoxys-A
>Unironically thinking greninja is better

180 in both physical and sp atk and 150 speed and has the same coverage of scumfrog except it's unlikely that deoxys will get oneshot

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:35:07 No.22591716 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591688

kek'd irl

nice dubs

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:35:22 No.22591722 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591436
That looks abut right, no other greninja set is broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:37:44 No.22591736 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591708
what? with protean, greninja hits way harder than Deoxys A

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:37:53 No.22591738 Report

Quoted By:

>Swagger Clause
Agree due to overcentralizing the meta.
>Baton Pass Clause
Disagree. Lrn2taunt
>Aegislash ban
Agree partially during the XY meta, but the ORAS meta has changed more than enough for Aegis to return.
>Blaziken ban
Disagree.
>Darkrai ban
Agree.
>Deoxys bans
Agree.
>Genesect ban
Agree.
>Mega Gengar ban
Agree.
>Greninja ban
Disagree. Greninja doesn't sweep teams unless you're shit.
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Agree.
>Mega Lucario ban
Agree.
>Mega Mawile ban
Disagree. What is Will-O-Wisp, for 500.
>Mega Salamence ban
Agree.
>Sky Shaymin ban
Agree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:38:52 No.22591746 Report

Quoted By: >>22591783

>>22591708
Name something that can switch into greninja but can't into deoxys-a.
inb4 shitmon like porygon2

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:40:21 No.22591758 Report

Quoted By: >>22591788

>>22591688

>+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Heatran Helping Hand Eruption (150 BP) vs. -6 0 HP / 0 SpD Dry Skin Paras in Sun: 6403036-7532988 (58209418.1 - 68481709%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Git Gud

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:43:41 No.22591783 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591746
Chansey? I'm sure super power would rape it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:45:24 No.22591788 Report

Quoted By: >>22591795 >>22591804

>>22591758
>+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Helping Hand Flamethrower vs. -6 0 HP / 0- SpD Dry Skin Paras in Sun on a critical hit: 72468156-85256656 (7246815600 - 8525665600%) -- guaranteed OHKO

What a scrub

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:46:19 No.22591792 Report

Quoted By:

>Swagger Clause
Agree
>Baton Pass Clause
Agree
>Aegislash ban
Disagree
>Blaziken ban
Mega I agree, regular I disagree
>Darkrai ban
Is this really even a question?
>Deoxys bans
Agree
>Genesect ban
Agree
>Mega Gengar ban
Agree
>Greninja ban
Disagree
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Agree
>Mega Lucario ban
Retest
>Mega Mawile ban
Disagree
>Mega Salamence ban
Agree
>Sky Shaymin ban
Agree. I love using it but because of that I know exactly why it's banned

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:46:38 No.22591795 Report

Quoted By: >>22591808

>>22591788
why wouldn't you use eruption?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:47:19 No.22591801 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590131
agree

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:47:25 No.22591804 Report

Quoted By: >>22591808 >>22591819

>>22591788
try magma storm

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:47:57 No.22591808 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591795
>>22591804

>not having a 999 power flamethrower coming off of 255 base special attack

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:49:04 No.22591811 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590131
>Blaziken ban
>Mega Salamence ban
>Mega Lucario ban
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
There is zero justification for these being in OU. All of them are fucking retarded strong.

Existence of Talonflame and Azumarill does not make Blaziken any more balanced than it was last gen, you just need to run, you know, checks to those and not attempt to sweep with Blaziken while they're healthy. Loss of infinite rain and legality of BP+SB really make it better than it was last gen.

>Mega Gengar
If this was allowed, defensive teams would simply not be viable.

>Sky Shaymin ban
This was banned unanimously for a reason. Only reason people would think it's okay this gen is Talonflame, mostly because they're on the low ladder where it's put on every team despite being nowhere near that splashable. Talonflame is not that fucking good, don't use it as a justification for why [broken mon] is balanced.

>Deoxys bans
These need to stop being dropped from uber every gen, it just wastes people's time when they're inevitably suspected again.

>Darkrai ban
Another thing that doesn't have to let down from ubers anytime soon

>Genesect ban
U-TURN U-TURN U-TURN U-TURN CHECK EVERYTHING this was cancer.

>Mega Mawile ban
>Aegislash ban
>Greninja ban
Borderline broken pokemon banned mostly for how restrictive they were to teambuilding. All are really fucking strong anyway.

>Swagger Clause
>Baton Pass Clause
Stupid garbage banned because ebin trolls spammed them on the ladder. If you played the Swagger suspect test, where Haunter literally said "abuse the shit out of swagger" you wouldn't contest its ban. That ladder was torture.

As for BP, it was pretty much auto-win against defensive teams. And I don't mean stall, I mean any team that's not HO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:50:32 No.22591819 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591804
magma storm is only 120 BP, eruption is 150 at max hp

also

>-6 0- SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Dry Skin Paras in Rain through Light Screen: 14-18 (5.1 - 6.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:52:05 No.22591827 Report

Quoted By: >>22591841 >>22591856 >>22591867

The only thing I can see banning from any sort of competitive play is legendaries and maybe mega-evolved pokemon (or having that be an option both parties must agree to first).

It's stupid to ban an entire pokemon from use otherwise.

The only reason I say legendaries ban because not everyone can get a legitimate Darkrai or a legitimate Celebi or whatever.

This is coming from someone who doesn't play competitively though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:53:13 No.22591836 Report

Quoted By:

>Aegislash ban
Agree, but retest
>Deoxys bans
Agree
>Genesect ban
Agree
>Mega Gengar ban
Agree
>Greninja ban
Neutral, but i voted no
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Agree
>Mega Lucario ban
Disagree, retest
>Mega Mawile ban
Disagree, retest, but i'd rather see M-Luke retested before M-Mawile
>Mega Salamence ban
Agree

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:54:22 No.22591841 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591827
Most Smogon players use simulators, where you don't have to obtain your Pokemon. Therefore, everything that can exist in the games can be used, regardless of how rare it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:57:26 No.22591856 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591827
Despite how much smogonshitters cries, VCG is the official format and there are rumours that GF got way to fed up to check legendary shinies here and there and that they will ban every one of them next gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 19:59:25 No.22591867 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591827
None of these pokemon are banned. You can use them in Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:00:20 No.22591871 Report

Quoted By: >>22591897

> Swagger Clause
I think they should have just banned the combination of SwagPlay. Swagger by itself isn't that broken.

> Baton Pass Clause
100% agree with ban. Shit was too broken.

> Aegislash ban
I want it retested, but it probably won't get sent to OU again since it still makes too many other mons useless.

> Blaziken ban
100% agree for obvious reasons.

> Darkrai ban
Wait, people seriously want this guy in OU?

> Deoxys bans
I can understand defense getting the boot, but speed form should come back. It really has nothing else going for it other than speed.

> Genesect ban
100% agree. Too annoying to deal with and it just U-turn's away whenever it wants to.

> Mega Gengar ban
Too deadly for OU, even without the ground immunity.

> Greninja ban
100% agree. People fail to realize that this fucker isn't just strong, it's also stupid fast and has absolutely no counters or checks. And no chansey doesn't count because it can't do shit back other than recover stall.

> Mega Kanga ban
The whore should be gone from VGC too.

> Mega Luke ban
I actually didn't have much trouble with this guy back when it was in OU, but I understand why it had to go.

> Mega Mawile
Ugh, I hated this fucker when it was in OU. Too fucking powerful.

> Mega Salamence ban
Even though it was fun to use, it was just too fucking retarded to go against.

> Skymin ban
No, just no. Please erase this thing from existence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:03:10 No.22591897 Report

Quoted By: >>22591934

>>22591871
>I can understand defense getting the boot, but speed form should come back.
S was better than D though

>It really has nothing else going for it other than speed.
And speed is like the most important stat. LO Deo-S was stupid strong because it outsped everything, it had what was essentially priority Ice/Dark/Psychic/Fire/Etc. moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:08:21 No.22591934 Report

Quoted By: >>22591941 >>22591948

>>22591897
> LO Deoxys-S

Hmm, forgot about that. Guess it makes sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:09:47 No.22591941 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591934
LO deo-s would be terrible in the current meta

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:11:00 No.22591948 Report

Quoted By: >>22591954

>>22591934
LO deoxys-S basically greninja with a bit more speed, and we all know greninja was balanced.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:12:29 No.22591954 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591948
LO deoxys doesn't get protean is significantly more important in the damage calculation than base stats, Greninja outdamages LO Deoxys-A in most situations

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:13:02 No.22591958 Report

Quoted By: >>22591960

AG is the best tier. You can make a team out of Moody Smeargle, Mega Gengar, SwagPlay Klefki, sky doge, Blaziken and a second Klefki.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:13:54 No.22591960 Report

Quoted By: >>22591983

>>22591958
Why not just 6 klefki's?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:14:14 No.22591962 Report

Quoted By:

>>22590343
Underrated post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:16:25 No.22591983 Report

Quoted By: >>22591997 >>22591999 >>22592016

>>22591960

rate my team /vp/

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:18:03 No.22591997 Report

Quoted By: >>22592032

>>22591983
>all of them countered by numel

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:18:10 No.22591999 Report

Quoted By: >>22592032

>>22591983
It's actually legit on AG, use a destiny bond mega gengar is your having trouble with numel.

Also run max speed klefki to beat other klefkis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:19:52 No.22592013 Report

Quoted By: >>22592140

>>22590131
>Swagger Clause
Retarded.
>Baton Pass Clause
Retarded.
>Aegislash ban
Retarded.
>Blaziken ban
Retarded.
>Darkrai ban
Justified.
>Deoxys bans
Justified.
>Genesect ban
Justified.
>Mega Gengar ban
Retarded.
>Greninja ban
Retarded.
>Mega Kangaskhan ban
Retarded.
>Mega Lucario ban
Retarded.
>Mega Mawile ban
Retarded.
>Mega Salamence ban
Retarded.
>Sky Shaymin ban
Justified.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:20:45 No.22592016 Report

Quoted By: >>22592032

>>22591983
You need more coverage

Numel eats you up. If you use multiples of a mon, it's better to use two different sets to accomplish two different goals. If they can KO one of your Klefkis, they can get all the rest too

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:21:31 No.22592021 Report

Quoted By: >>22592030 >>22592034

Swagger's funny.

Strategy guides have fun combos to use like Swagger and Psych Up.

Is Smogon banning defense curl and rollout next?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:23:11 No.22592030 Report

Quoted By:

>>22592021
It's not Swagger per 'se, it's the abuse of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:23:20 No.22592032 Report

Quoted By: >>22592046

>>22592016
>>22591999
>>22591997

Is numel really a problem in AG?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:23:23 No.22592034 Report

Quoted By:

>>22592021
Actually, Thunder Wave and paralysis inducers since they rely on hax :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:23:23 No.22592035 Report

Quoted By:

Why don't you people play something that isn't regulated by Smogon if you hate them and their decisions so much?

Like, I don't care about competitive gaming, but it seems stupid that you wouldn't just go and play somewhere where Smogon has no authority over what is or isn't allowed.

Unless there's no other place in which case I am the retard and I suck cocks etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:24:57 No.22592046 Report

Quoted By: >>22592057 >>22592183

>>22592032
Numel hard counters klefki so you need to have a way to get around it.

Fun Fact : Numel gets more usage than Girantina in AG

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:26:51 No.22592057 Report

Quoted By: >>22592074

>>22592046
Dies to hp water

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:27:59 No.22592068 Report

Quoted By:

Sejuani @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Protect

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:28:46 No.22592074 Report

Quoted By:

>>22592057
but you'd have to run HP water on a klefki, might as well run a mega gengar to take down other problem mons like groudon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:37:19 No.22592140 Report

Quoted By:

>>22592013
>Genesect justified
>M Kang/Salamence retarded
max kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 20:42:30 No.22592183 Report

Quoted By:

>>22592046

>the most common Ditto and Klefki partners are more Ditto and Klefki
>Whimsicott and Numel are in the top 100
>so is Glalie, and only 15% of people are using the Mega
>Spore/Baton Pass/Substitute/Minimize Smeargle

And this is the 1760 stats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 21:54:06 No.22592888 Report

Quoted By:

>>22591436
>no Ice Beam
>no Gunk Shot
>not Low Kick
Nice try, nerd.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Jan 2015 23:01:17 No.22593588 Report

Quoted By: >>22594757

>>22591189
Your assuming always beneficial conditions with always having the right move.

That is far more stupid than any argument made by our opposition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Jan 2015 00:59:49 No.22594757 Report

Quoted By:

>>22593588
>your assuming
yeah no nigga stfu

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