/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #22791455

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Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 20:11:43 No.22791455 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>22791464 >>22791528 >>22791549 >>22791568 >>22791575 >>22791821 >>22792043 >>22792441 >>22792653

>C- Rank in Ubers
Why is this, and where did things go wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 20:13:33 No.22791464 Report

Quoted By: >>22791471

>>22791455
Because not enough people express their love to her and marry her.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 20:14:41 No.22791471 Report

Quoted By: >>22791551 >>22795176

>>22791464
JustinRPG the only one for her.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 20:24:33 No.22791528 Report

Quoted By: >>22791763 >>22791777 >>22791944

>>22791455
Why hasn't it been suspected for OU yet? It's inferior to Kyruem-B and yet it's OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 20:27:43 No.22791549 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791455
It gets hard walled by the two most prominent pokes in ubers

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 20:28:10 No.22791551 Report

Quoted By: >>22791577

>>22791471
Moltres is pooping

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 20:31:00 No.22791568 Report

Quoted By: >>22791967

>>22791455
weather nerf and P-Groudon's new ability. Ho-oh is now better than it easily.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 20:32:21 No.22791575 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791455
Because Primal Cancer and no sun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 20:32:40 No.22791577 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791551
Oh no I'm gonna have to eat all of it...

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:02:54 No.22791763 Report

Quoted By: >>22791775

KyuW outclasses it

>>22791528
Kyu-B is worse because it doesn't have a movepool.

Reshiram DOES have a movepool, no one should pretend it's not powerful as shit, but it's just not good in ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:04:34 No.22791775 Report

Quoted By: >>22791854

>>22791763
Kyurem-B does have a movepool, it's just missing either a good physical ice STAB, a good coverage move besides Fusion Bolt, or a good setup move to be sent straight into ubers. If one day it gets all 3 then it will be broken as fuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:04:53 No.22791777 Report

Quoted By: >>22791838

>>22791528
That shit would be easily broken as shit. What else would you call something more powerful than Charizard X?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:10:13 No.22791821 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791455
Both primals make its life miserable. Reshiram NEEDS Sunny Day/Drought to be effective, but using regular Groudon instead of its Primal has a huge opportunity cost. And even if you were ok with that, Primal Kyogre can safely switch into Reshiram, replace sun with heavy rain, take little damage from anything it can throw at it (even STAB Draco Meteor won't do much against 100/160 special bulk) and destroy it with Origin Pulse.

And let's not even get started on how Kyurem-W outclasses it: Ice STAB is currently extremely powerful in ubers since EVERYTHING that resists ice gets rekt by Primal Groudon, making it an excellent partner for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:12:38 No.22791838 Report

Quoted By: >>22791912 >>22791948 >>22791967

>>22791777
Mega Diancie, Azumarill, Chansey, specially defensive Heatran, Tyranitar and Mega Altaria can all comfortably wall it.
Its base 90 speed, SR weakness and not-so-great defensive type make it easily revenge killed by the likes of Landorus, Garchomp and Latios.

Seriously Reshiram isn't THAT powerful in practice and OU is more than equipped to deal with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:15:28 No.22791854 Report

Quoted By: >>22792685

>>22791775
Kyurem-B is pretty much what Ho-oh was before it got Regenerator and Brave Bird. It only needs a little push to become too much for OU, as several "other metagames" have proven so far.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:26:21 No.22791912 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791838
If Reshiram was OU I'd personally run a bulky set of Wisp/Roost/Blue Flare/Draco. 100/100/120 bulk is great and even without investment it's still chipping things really hard with 130 BP moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:29:41 No.22791944 Report

Quoted By: >>22791961 >>22792391

>>22791528
I'd like to see Lugia come down too. Stall really isn't all that great in OU and definately needs something to put it even with Mixed and HO

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:30:28 No.22791948 Report

Quoted By: >>22791954

>>22791838

It's a silghtly slower, bulkyier Charizard Y with better typing and coverage without Drought and Reliable recovery.

It's a worse Char Y, IMHO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:31:29 No.22791954 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791948
Oh it has roost as well, my mistake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:32:43 No.22791961 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791944
>Stall really isn't all that great in OU
are you joking

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:33:22 No.22791967 Report

Quoted By: >>22791992 >>22792003

>>22791568
>now
Ho-Oh has always had fuckhueger Special bulk, powerful Flying STAB LO Brave Bird discourages Kyogre from switching in, and Sacred Fire over Reshiram, in addition to a valuable niche as a Physical attacker that can't get Burned.Picking up Regenerator midway through Gen V made it markedly less vulnerable to entry hazards compared to the Vast White Pokemon, and having a Fairy resistance in Gen VI was a major boon that let it harass Xerneas in XY. In ORAS, it benefits from resisting both of P-Diddy's STABs and still not having to give a single fuck about Kyogre trying to switch in.
>>22791838
>Earth Power
>LO Blue Flare unless AV
>LO Outrage
>Turboblaze Blue Flare :^) Earth Power
>Earth Power or Focus Blast
>Blue Flare, especially after Rocks
Yeah, good fucking luck with that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:36:08 No.22791986 Report

Quoted By: >>22792005 >>22792067

It was mediocre in Ubers even in Gen 5. The entire problem lies in type distribution in Ubers - no major legendary is weak to Fire because they're all psychics and dragons, plus Arceus, Groudon and Ho-Oh. It's also slow on par with Groudon and Kyogre and lacks a gamebreaking ability like those two. At least Zekrom has always had a niche of murdering the latter. Primal Groudon was just the last straw of making it completely useless.

And like others said, it's unfortunately too much for OU. Basically a bulkier and slightly harder-hitting specially-oriented X-zard without need of megastone. Ability is also better in OU environement than in ubers - Heatran can't eat its fire blasts. Maaaaybe lack of boosting moves (Tailwind lel) and 90 speed could make it manageable, but doubtful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:36:53 No.22791992 Report

Quoted By: >>22792140

>>22791967
It's a Kyurem-B with Fire coverage over Ice, thanks for pointing that out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:37:01 No.22791994 Report

Quoted By:

Coulda be worse, coulda been in the Adventures of Sonichu.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:37:47 No.22792003 Report

Quoted By: >>22792022 >>22792140

>>22791967
>implying Reshiram has more than 4 moveslots
>implying Reshiram's moveset can't be scouted
>implying LO on something so vulnerable to passive damage is a good idea

Again, good on paper, less than spectacular in practice. Just another Kyurem-B.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:38:12 No.22792005 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791986
Flame Charge sets would probably be legit. I mean really unless you have a small handful of stuff you won't be able to stop it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:39:31 No.22792022 Report

Quoted By: >>22792046

>>22792003
>>Again, good on paper, less than spectacular in practice
So you've used it in OU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:40:38 No.22792032 Report

Quoted By:

Honestly I find Hoopa-Unbound to be a hell a lot scarier than Reshiram. Though I find Kyurem-B to be even scarier with that mixed SE coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:41:43 No.22792043 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791455
things went wrong with its massive fuzzy erection.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:42:07 No.22792046 Report

Quoted By:

>>22792022
That's the question that should have been asked to those who wanted to test Kyurem-B in OU when it was still in ubers.
Why can't we do the same for Reshiram? If it's broken it stays in ubers - no harm done. Otherwise it needs to be brought down in OU just like Kyu-B was.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:44:33 No.22792067 Report

Quoted By: >>22792078 >>22792140

>>22791986
Ran some calcs

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reshiram: 254-302 (62.8 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reshiram: 410-486 (101.4 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reshiram: 236-278 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Reshiram: 404-476 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even with the bulky sets a majority of the meta still handles it well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:45:55 No.22792078 Report

Quoted By: >>22792130

>>22792067
>majority of the meta
>4 pokemon with powerful STAB SE moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:52:45 No.22792130 Report

Quoted By: >>22792140

>>22792078
Just showing it can get OHKO or 2HKO by common OU mons at best.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:54:01 No.22792139 Report

Quoted By:

It's just a marginally bulkier version of Chandelure, so shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 21:54:11 No.22792140 Report

Quoted By: >>22792255 >>22792392

>>22791992
Not really, because Kyurem-B can't use Ice STAB with its best offensive stat.
>>22792003
>Blue Flare
>Outrage
>Earth Power
>Draco Meteor
That's four moves, and that's a wallbreaking set. The only thing on your list that isn't 2HKOed if it tries to come in is AV Azumarill. Flare/Meteor/Roost/Wisp is what you run if you want to keep the Truth around for a while, while Flame Charge sets exist if you're planning on sweeping at the end of the game.
>>22792067
>>22792130
Not a single one of those things can switch in safely, bar Mega Diancie if it's just running dual STABs. And even it doesn't want to risk a Burn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 22:08:07 No.22792255 Report

Quoted By: >>22792358

>>22792140
>Nothing can switch in safely on Kyurem Black
What is your point? A lot of mons with good moves pools can't be switched into perfectly

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 22:19:05 No.22792358 Report

Quoted By:

>>22792255
There is a major difference between "nothing can safely switch in" and "nothing can safely switch in on this specific combination of four moves". I described a set that's 160 Assault Vest Azumarill hit points away from cleaving through everything in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 22:22:14 No.22792391 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791944
here's your reply

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 22:22:17 No.22792392 Report

Quoted By: >>22792574

>>22792140
4 Atk Life Orb Turboblaze Reshiram Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 261-308 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

If you run more Attack Evs then you sacrifice either SpA (meaning it misses out on important 2HKO's) or speed (making it more prone to revenge-killing).
And that Chansey is not even running max physical bulk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 22:29:19 No.22792441 Report

Quoted By: >>22792471

>>22791455

Primal Groudon happened.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 22:34:40 No.22792471 Report

Quoted By: >>22792697

>>22792441
And before that Kyurem-W and Regenerator Ho-oh happened. Honestly, Reshiram has never really been that good in Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 22:53:57 No.22792574 Report

Quoted By:

>>22792392
>meaning it misses out on important 2HKO's
Which ones would those be? Rash 80 Atk/188 Sp. Atk/240 Speed 2HKOes standard Chansey, Specially Defensive Porygon2, and P.Def Mega Altaria with Rocks up and still outspeeds Adamant Excadrill yes I ripped the Speed tier from what Black Kyurem runs, it's not like a wallbreaker really needs to go absolute fast which is just dandy for what you're trying to do, and you could always drop Outrage for Focus Blast and somehow find enough room on the rest of your team to deal with the ABCs. Compare this to Mega Gardevoir, which is commonly seen as the biggest Special threat to stall in OU.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 23:00:19 No.22792614 Report

Quoted By: >>22792724

Yes, bring it down to OU
I would love to run it Scarfed along with Charizard Y.

Reshiram
Choice Scarf
252SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
Blue Flare
Draco Meteor
Earth Power
Extrasensory

I'll just need suport for keep the rocks out and trap chansey.
Then, nothing can stop them.
No Keldeo, No Heatran, No Raikou No Mega Diancie, everything used to hold Charizard Y besides Chansey will be gone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 23:05:28 No.22792653 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791455
>Because Nintendo didn't think it over
>When someone noticed a dick
YFW you remember Reshiram is an it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 23:09:33 No.22792685 Report

Quoted By: >>22793079 >>22796355

>>22791854
Ok but why does no one uses it in OU then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 23:10:37 No.22792697 Report

Quoted By:

>>22792471

Before then, at least Reshiram was in B rank because of it's raw power. Kyurem-W couldn't get as much damage because of infinite Sun, but it had the benefit of OHKOing Lugia.

All the indirect nerfs and all of these beastly ubermons definetly did not help reshiram

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 23:16:27 No.22792724 Report

Quoted By: >>22792756

>>22792614
>Extrasensory
To what end?
>SE Extrasensory: 160 BP
>SE Earth Power: 180 BP
>neutral STAB Blue Flare: 195 BP (292.5 BP in Sun)
>neutral STAB Draco Meteor: 195 BP
The only reason to run Extrasensory is if you really, really, really want Toxicroak dead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 23:22:07 No.22792756 Report

Quoted By: >>22792775

>>22792724
Toxiccroak runs dry skin most of the time, so Blue Flare will more than suffice. Nobody seriously uses Anticipation Toxicroak, so they?

I suppose you could use Extrasensory to kill Tentacruel, since it is only neutral vs. Earth Power, and it has a decent amount of SpD. You could also use it to kill a fighting/fairy type with Levitate, but no such mythical beast exists... yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 23:25:35 No.22792775 Report

Quoted By:

>>22792756
Tentacruel is weak to Earth Power, and Turboblaze means that Reshiram ignores Dry Skin either way.
>252+ SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Earth Power vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 204-242 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
>252+ SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Extrasensory vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 182-216 (50.9 - 60.5%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
>252+ SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Toxicroak: 366-432 (119.2 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 23:33:28 No.22792821 Report

Quoted By:

Reshiram would be fucking way too much for OU
>Mega Charizard X
>except it doesn't take up your mega slot
>and can hold an item
>and it's bulkier on both sides, especially special
>and it has moldbreaker to hit Heatran
>in return it ~only~ has 90 base speed
Bulk sets would probably be the best, next to Flame Charge or maybe Scarf sets. Most of its would-be counters are ruined by Will-O-Wisp, and there's not exactly many to begin with (Azumarill is 2HKOed by Blue Flare and not even CB Azu can KO 0/0 Reshiram.) Mega Altaria can only win if it's carrying Draco, even then it's still 2HKOed by LO Blue Flare unless it runs a ton of investment. Tyranitar is ruined by Wisp, Reshiram actually beats it if it gets burned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Feb 2015 23:37:52 No.22792852 Report

Quoted By: >>22793439

Reminder that Smogon didn't decide to make Kyurem-B OU, Pokemon Online did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 00:11:18 No.22793079 Report

Quoted By:

>>22792685
Because it hasn't gotten that push yet?
Are you retarded?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 00:18:43 No.22793127 Report

Quoted By: >>22793166 >>22793226

Pikachu got Icicle Crash before KyuB did.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 00:23:55 No.22793166 Report

Quoted By:

>>22793127
Fuck, anon.
I didn't need this sadness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 00:31:38 No.22793226 Report

Quoted By:

>>22793127
>Reshiram and Zekrom get 2 nice signature moves
>Kyurem gets shit tier ones

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 01:01:00 No.22793439 Report

Quoted By: >>22793555 >>22793666

>>22792852
Reminder that smogon didn't decide to make Kyurem-B OU, usage did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 01:13:49 No.22793555 Report

Quoted By:

>>22793439
Reminder that usage means jack shit when you're talking about moving things between OU and Ubers; fucking no one uses Deoxys-N in Ubers or at least they really, really shouldn't and we're still at least two generations of power creep away from seeing it in OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 01:32:53 No.22793666 Report

Quoted By: >>22796359

>>22793439
Except it was voted down last gen ya dingus

However, it did rise THIS gen from UU / BL

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 03:19:49 No.22794436 Report

Quoted By: >>22795215

To anyone who seriously thinks that Reshiram is balanced in OU, between Fire/Dragon STAB and Earth Power it has unresisted coverage of the entire tier in three moves, plus any fourth of its choice, and apart from a couple megas who would have to be EV'd in a way that completely detracts from their regular use, nothing in OU has a chance in hell of safely switching in on it, and matches would basically go down to whoever was best at keeping their Reshiram alive.

We've been through this countless times. Nothing in Ubers barring Aegislash could easily drop to OU and not shred the entire tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 04:55:22 No.22795176 Report

Quoted By:

>>22791471
I wish nothing but despair and suffering upon that digsusting creature.

Reshiram is majestic and the first time he awakened was awesome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 05:00:09 No.22795215 Report

Quoted By: >>22795374

>>22794436
Mega Mawile

Blaze Blaziken

Baton Pass chains after oras gave us Sableye
Hell, swagger after Sableye.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 05:21:45 No.22795374 Report

Quoted By:

>>22795215
>Baton Pass chains after oras gave us Sableye
Full BP used Sylveon

Plus Mega Sableye existing isn't an excuse to unban swagger. "What, you hate fighting Swagplay? Why aren't you using your mega slot on this one specific pokemon?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 09:31:19 No.22796355 Report

Quoted By:

>>22792685
>nobody uses Kyu-B in OU
>Kyu-B is OU

What

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Feb 2015 09:33:16 No.22796359 Report

Quoted By:

>>22793666
Kyu-B along with broken shit such as Landorus-I and Deoxys-S fell in OU at the start or XY because people were busy playing with shitty mons like Goodra due to the shiny new toy syndrome.

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