/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #22998904

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Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:00:54 No.22998904 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>22998948 >>22998956 >>22998964 >>22998996 >>22999437

>no moves

It's a fire type with 130 attack and has an HA that boosts physical. Would a phys move like High jump kick or Thrash work make it slightly less shit?

At least Eevee would like Thrash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:04:23 No.22998939 Report

Quoted By: >>22999106

>or thrash

Stop

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:05:22 No.22998948 Report

Quoted By: >>22999026

>>22998904
Suffering
I think the whole line would like a boosted movepool.
And lilligant

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:06:32 No.22998956 Report

Quoted By: >>22998969

>>22998904
>high jump kick

How would it be kicking with tiny paws like that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:07:48 No.22998964 Report

Quoted By: >>22999029 >>22999146

>>22998904
>no mores
it got flare blitz in gen6. the reasons that flareon is shit are more complicated than that.

>fire type
>65 spe
>no bulk
>no good abilities
>it is in a tier with ninetails

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:08:09 No.22998969 Report

Quoted By:

>>22998956
Jolteon learns Double Kick

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:10:08 No.22998996 Report

Quoted By:

>>22998904
Being slow as hell and having one of the worst defensive typings is why Falreon is trash.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:13:02 No.22999021 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:13:42 No.22999026 Report

Quoted By: >>22999051 >>22999397 >>22999630 >>22999651

>>22998948
Agree 100%.

Grass/Fire Mega Lilligant with Simple and Fiery Dance when?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:13:48 No.22999029 Report

Quoted By: >>22999075 >>22999146

>>22998964
Shit stats aren't the problem. Breloom is usable, even with stats that would probably land it in RU at best.

But you know what makes Breloom great? Great coverage, lots of diversity in its sets, great abilities to choose between, a strong niche... it has just about everything it needs.

Flareon lacks
1)The movepool necessary to succeed
2)Abilities necessary to succeed
3)Key resistances and immunities.

Flareon has a higher BST than Breloom, with more SpD, the ability to go mixed, and the exact same attack stat. Breloom is OU, and Flareon is NU.

Make of that what you will, but stats definitely aren't the sole problem, nor even a significant factor compared with the other factors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:16:19 No.22999051 Report

Quoted By: >>22999122

>>22999026

Grass/Fire mega before an actual evolution line? Disgraceful

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:17:42 No.22999075 Report

Quoted By: >>22999158

>>22999029
>But you know what makes Breloom great?
it has technician, fighting type, and spore. spore is the main draw.

>stats definitely aren't the sole problem
yeah i said that it's type and lack of useful ability are also part of the problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:20:54 No.22999106 Report

Quoted By:

>>22998939
You know you want it, it would make Eevee a great addition to your team. The true glass cannon with her 2x stab and run away ability. Would be great for new games.

Like a new Pokemon Mystery Dungeon ;_;

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:22:14 No.22999122 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999051
Mega Altaria and Mega Sceptile both have unique Type Combinations that aren't seen anywhere else.

A Mega for Lilligant could be the same way. Or Grass/Fairy like everyone expects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:25:47 No.22999146 Report

Quoted By: >>22999168 >>22999179 >>22999193

>>22998964
>>22999029

>Fire type
>Bad

6 resistances including ice and fairy plus immunity to burns is bad now?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:26:56 No.22999158 Report

Quoted By: >>22999614 >>22999709 >>22999951

>>22999075
>Type
Fire is actually a great type. 6 resistances is a great boon. The problem is that Flareon lacks any useful resistances, a la Breloom and powder moves. Flareon is actually a great counter to Volcarona.... or would be, if it had a stronger movepool.

>Useful ability
Guts is useful, but being immune to burn and having Guts is awful. Flareon doesn't have any good way to activate Guts. Breloom has 3 fantastic abilities that it can run with different sets. Flareon has 2 mediocre abilities it can't fully make use of.

>Fighting type being good
This isn't Gen 4/5, faggot. Fighting type is a shit type to be since Fairies are around. Fire's greatest boon is resisting the strongest type in the game, plus resisting some common offensive types like Ice and Fire. Steel, Grass, and Bug resistances don't hurt either. What hurts is that it has no way to hit SE against most of these types it resists, since it has a dismal movepool.

If you gave Flareon Stone Edge and a usable HA, it would rise a tier or two. It's really not that bad - nothing that can't be fixed with a couple of tweaks. Just look at how strong Gothitelle and Scolipede became with a simple HA change.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:27:07 No.22999161 Report

Quoted By:

swap its speed and spa and it might be worth using

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:27:25 No.22999168 Report

Quoted By: >>22999192 >>22999194

>>22999146
Neither Ice nor Fairy resistances matter when you're weak to the most common attacking types in the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:28:43 No.22999179 Report

Quoted By: >>22999192

>>22999146
Burn immunity is shit when you have Guts. Why the fuck would you want to get toxic on your fragile sweeper?

Give Flareon Stone Edge/Rock Throw, Agility/Dragon Dance, and maybe EQ, and it'll become the new Darmanitan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:30:21 No.22999192 Report

Quoted By: >>22999553

>>22999168
>>22999179

I never understood why she didn't get solar beam when Arcanine and Ninetails got it.

Speaking of, Arcanine and Ninetails mega when?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:30:22 No.22999193 Report

Quoted By: >>22999198 >>22999217

>>22999146
it took two megas to get charizard into ou. talonflame is only there because of gale wings. that leaves heatran. fire isn't the worst type but it's far from the best.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:30:38 No.22999194 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999168
Ice IS the most common attacking type in game. That's why Dragons were balanced - Ice was fucking everywhere. Icebeam is still one of the most used moves in the game.

Ice hits too many good 'mons for SE damage not to be a great offensive type. Being able to switch in on Ice attacks and not die, especially the most common Ice attack in the game, is a great plus. Flareon does that well, at least, but most Ice types also have a Rock/Water/Ground type attack for coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:31:53 No.22999198 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999193

I want Arcanine to get a mega that has Bulk Up

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 03:34:32 No.22999217 Report

Quoted By: >>22999735

>>22999193
Charizard would've been OU with just one Mega. Blaziken went straight to Ubers because it got a serviceable ability. The second strongest Pokemon in game is Fire type. Let's not forget how good Darmanitan and Volcarona were last gen. Chandelure, Entei, Victini, Infernape, and Rotom-H being the 2nd best Rotom, does none of this speak to you?

Fire is a great type. Not the best, but definitely better than Dragon, or Normal, or Poison. Game Freak just abuses the shit out of the type. The first really good Fire type was in Gen 4 - Infernape. Before that, there were mediocre Fire types, and shit Fire types.

Well, besides Arcanine. It was pretty good in Gen 1 meta.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 04:03:27 No.22999397 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999026
I never knew I wanted this until now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 04:08:45 No.22999437 Report

Quoted By:

>>22998904
>Wild Charge When?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 04:28:40 No.22999553 Report

Quoted By: >>22999830

>>22999192
>she

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 04:29:02 No.22999555 Report

Quoted By:

There isn't any reason to use Flareon over any other physical Fire types. The only thing it brings to the table is Guts, and even then most others can still hit harder or just boost to that level.

Instead of making it faster, a good Flareon MEvo could bring in some bulk or some mixed wallbreaking potential. Making it strictly stronger and faster won't get anywhere.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 04:37:36 No.22999614 Report

Quoted By: >>22999701

>>22999158
>Fighting type is a shit type to be since Fairies are around.
So how come Fighting has more reps (Conk, Breloom, Pony, M Gallade and Lop) in OU than Fire (Char, Heatran, Burd)?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 04:41:09 No.22999630 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999026
My nigga

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 04:44:13 No.22999651 Report

Quoted By: >>22999894

>>22999026
Grass/Fire Mega Sunflora with Drought, Fiery Dance, and Seed Flare when

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 04:55:23 No.22999701 Report

Quoted By: >>22999705

>>22999614
the only fire type on that list is char.

the rest are there for their second type.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 04:56:54 No.22999705 Report

Quoted By: >>22999741

>>22999701
And char is only there for its mega. What's your point?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 04:57:29 No.22999709 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999158
Lot of good those 6 resistances do you when you lose 25% hp from rocks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:02:05 No.22999735 Report

Quoted By: >>22999750

>>22999217
>Fire a great type
If you mean offensive then yes fire is good for offense but Fire is cursed to be murdered by Stone Edge or EQ that is omnipresent in the metagame and the resistances it has doesnt matter since most fire types are frail and cant take a hit.

Stealth Rock is the number one troll to fire types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:04:08 No.22999741 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999705
my point is
>being a fire type in the year 2012+3

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:06:30 No.22999750 Report

Quoted By: >>22999753 >>22999756

>>22999735
>this type has a weakness...therefore it is bad defensively.

Tell heatran that he's no longer good at tanking because ground type moves exit in the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:07:33 No.22999753 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999750
exist* in the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:08:29 No.22999756 Report

Quoted By: >>22999772

>>22999750
No its the particular type they are weak to.Ground and Rock are always present and fire types cant take hits which is why most of them dwell in the pits of NU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:11:34 No.22999772 Report

Quoted By: >>22999775 >>23000172

>>22999756
>What is predicting a super-effective move and switching out?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:12:53 No.22999775 Report

Quoted By: >>22999782

>>22999772
>What is every mon and their grandma knowing EQ and Stone Edge?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:14:07 No.22999782 Report

Quoted By: >>22999785 >>23000172

>>22999775
Defensive Skarmory and Ferrothorn laugh at those moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:15:11 No.22999785 Report

Quoted By: >>22999799

>>22999782
>What is Flamethrower?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:17:08 No.22999799 Report

Quoted By: >>22999824

>>22999785
It leads to the point I made, which you just circled back to. Predicting the super effective move, and switching out. I'm glad we could go on this little journey together.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:21:27 No.22999824 Report

Quoted By: >>22999834 >>22999845

>>22999799
Stalling is for pussies.Pokemon battling is nothing but killing stuff and setting up stat boost.All stallers should commit suicide for being a bunch of pacifist annoying faggots.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:22:27 No.22999830 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999553
>can shrink in size
>to suit her mood

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:22:59 No.22999834 Report

Quoted By: >>22999842

>>22999824
You mad a stall team wrecked you yh you mad you inbred cum eating faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:24:54 No.22999842 Report

Quoted By: >>22999851 >>22999855

>>22999834
You are a fucking pussy be a man and spam Dragon Dance then sweep teams like how a real trainer does it.Stalling is for FUCKING PUSSIES YOU PIECE OF SHIT!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:25:14 No.22999845 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999824
>switching out a poke to avoid taking serious damage or getting knocked out is now stall.

Ok bud, you let your heatran stay in and take that EQ. I'm sure it will end very well for you. I appreciate you not switching out to avoid the stall fest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:26:27 No.22999851 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999842
>Dragon Dance
Strategy is for plebs I win all my battles by spamming the crap out of Double Team and Mean Look.I kill Taunters on the spot btw.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:27:58 No.22999855 Report

Quoted By: >>22999864 >>22999883

>>22999842
Well Im sorry you are too stupid to see how great stall is.

What do you think stall is anyway?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:32:25 No.22999864 Report

Quoted By: >>22999873

>>22999855
Stall is a pussy strategy where you use bulky mons to status induce then spam recovery moves to annoy the shit out of your opponent while the status condition slowly fucking kills them.

Basic Stalling Moveset
Wish-Healing Move
Toxic/Willo/Wisp/Scald-Status Inducer
Insert Attack Here-Offensive move to knock that bar down
Protect-The ultimate stalling troll move

Stallers better kill Taunters before they do their shit though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:35:16 No.22999873 Report

Quoted By: >>22999899

>>22999864
Well you seem to understand the basics of stalling but there are far better healing moves like Slack Off or Softboiled or Recover.Its a nice strategy though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:35:55 No.22999877 Report

Quoted By:

How to fix Flareon?

Switch it's SpA stat with Spe...

Drops mic walk out of thread...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:36:52 No.22999883 Report

Quoted By: >>22999918

>>22999855
I don't even play Pokemon competitively and the word stall triggers me. I don't give a shit if you think how great a tactic it is, it's fucking boring.

There's no better way to kill a game competitively than encouraging defensive tactics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:38:28 No.22999894 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999651
>:
Play Insurgence. Delta Sunflora ftw

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:39:19 No.22999899 Report

Quoted By: >>22999914

>>22999873
Fuck you stalling is for sissies. Its better to just kill everything on the spot instead of healing off shit like a fucking pussy.If you used potions ingame you are certified wet pussy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:41:45 No.22999914 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999899
What do purpose a good strategy is then jackass?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:42:20 No.22999918 Report

Quoted By: >>22999933

>>22999883
Competitors don't care about being entertaining. They care about winning through whatever means possible.

That being said, stall can...sometimes...maybe, be broken down through raw power and set up. Taunt can work, but it's a temporary solution to an ongoing dilemma. You need to find that opportunity for your set up sweeper to come in, set up, and break down some walls. You have to be bold and play the double-swap game with your opponent if you're gonna get that opportunity. If there's one thing that catches a stall team of guard, it's a double swap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:43:31 No.22999927 Report

Quoted By:

I one admined a Netbattle server that added Superpower, Extremespeed, and Bone Rush to Flareon's movepool. Would have added Dragon Rush, too, if it had existed at the time (Gen III)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:45:15 No.22999933 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999918
Also, to add on, there's a reason you don't see dedicated stall vs dedicated stall in most video game tournament finals. Sometimes you have to use stall on the spot, but it's never really "dedicated" stall tactics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 05:50:10 No.22999951 Report

Quoted By: >>23000173

>>22999158
>Fighting type is a shit type to be since Fairies are around.
Fighting isn't that great because Talonflame keeps them in check nearly 99.9% of the time in most 1v1 situations(which is why I think SB Blaziken should be back in OU). Not because of Fairies. Most of the usable Fighting types carry a secondary STAB to deal with them and the mono Fighters can afford a slot on Poison Jab since most of them tend to run Fighting/Dark coverage anyway. I can't remember how many times I OHKO'ed/2HKO'ed most Fairies in XY with CM sweeper LO Keldeo with Hydro Pump. It can even survive uninvested Moonblasts/Hyper Voices after a boost its ridiculous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 06:27:26 No.23000172 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999772
>>22999782
Ok at this point you're just doing the mirror image of the argument you parodied
>this strategy has a counter therefore it must be a bad strategy
We can list strategies and counters until we die because there's NO strategy that's 100% infallible but the fact remains that on average some strategies will be more effective and some won't. Some types will have more glaring downsides than others. And on balance Fire is poor defensively.

Again that doesn't mean that no-one has EVER WON with a fire type or there's NEVER BEEN a fire type that survived in battle. It just means that on AVERAGE they are more likely to get knocked out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Mar 2015 06:27:32 No.23000173 Report

Quoted By:

>>22999951
SB Blaziken would still be too strong for OU in spite of burd

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