/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #23206652

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Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:06:28 No.23206652 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>23206708 >>23206802 >>23206901

>Primal Kyogre: I didn't think this would get to S, but I'm glad it did. I posted briefly in the last thread on why it should be S rank, but I'll restate some points anyways. It defines the meta; forces teams to run secondary checks alongside PDon; 6-0s teams that do not run secondary checks; can run various amounts of sets to change its functionality (defensive RestTalk, CM, all out attacker); and damn hard to switch into. In hindsight, PDon+Latias/other secondary check seem like an issue; but in actuality, speed is the only problem.

Can people on /vp/ stop saying that Primal Kyogre sucks now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:15:14 No.23206694 Report

Quoted By: >>23206711 >>23206759

some of /vp/ was just mad because the dynamic changed. what they didn't take into account was that it was essentially a pokemon with 150/180 attack stats with the equivalent of a fucking adaptability boost. not even mega ray can deal more damage pound-for-pound, and that thing can hold items.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:17:27 No.23206708 Report

Quoted By: >>23206753 >>23206807

>>23206652
Keep in mind that this is the same place that says Ho-oh should be OU even though it's been S rank for months.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:17:49 No.23206711 Report

Quoted By:

>>23206694
Sadly that base 150 attack stat is completely wasted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:26:17 No.23206753 Report

Quoted By: >>23206768

>>23206708
shitty meme, even at it's absolute worst point (dppt) it would have just burned or severely damaged whatever it couldn't ko.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:27:23 No.23206759 Report

Quoted By: >>23206818 >>23206837

>>23206694
The fact is that Primal Groudon is obscenely optimized. None of its stats is wasted (unlike POgre with its useless 150 attack), it's immune to burn, paralysis and even freeze just for kicks, factoring Desolate Land it only has one weakness and most EQ users fear a possible burn from Lava Plume and even then it has 100/160 physical bulk so it can live most EQs anyway, its best set (SR support with EQ and Lava Plume) combines power, bulk AND support while POgre has to choose a role.
Meanwhile POgre got 50 stat points wasted, an ability that is actually WORSE than Drizzle save for the fact that it overrides Desolate Land and it still has issues getting past its old checks such as Ferrothorn. It's a great pokemon, but PDon is just better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:28:23 No.23206768 Report

Quoted By:

>>23206753
Its worst point was GSC actually. In many ways it was a worse Moltres (yeah you read that right).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:36:32 No.23206802 Report

Quoted By: >>23206857

>>23206652
Because its viability wasn't clear without some Smogon opinion.

Okay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:38:00 No.23206807 Report

Quoted By:

>>23206708
At this point in time you shouldn't be taking /vp/ seriously.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:39:32 No.23206818 Report

Quoted By:

>>23206759
i agree in that looking at the stat changes and such, pdon obviously got the better end of the deal. in a perfect world, the stat changes would be more optimized so each receive equal or near equal benefits from primal reversion.

that said, i also think it's a slight issue of how primal reversion works anyways. had it been just normal mega evolution, each would have their own checks and balances that would allow for more creative play. bluffing primal kyogre with specs would allow more complex situations that wouldn't just amount to "oh, just switch in sp.defensive pdon to shoo it out" for example. that way, it wouldn't always be a 100% upgrade for either pokemon to be primal instead of normal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:42:17 No.23206831 Report

Quoted By: >>23206846 >>23206925

Why do people keep whining about its 150 Atk, it can still run gimmick sets with T-Wave and Waterfall or Earthquake or just a Avalanche as filler on a mixed set. If anything the problem was Kyogre not being able to learn Aqua Jet as a niche role.

This said the Special based sets will be still superior but I wouldn't call it wasted like with Steelix and its further Defense buff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:43:11 No.23206837 Report

Quoted By:

>>23206759
Just a nitpick but PDon is immune to TWave, not paralysis in itself. That said, the most notable non-electric paralysis spreaders (Jirachi with Body Slam and I suppose Serprior with Glare?) Have no business facing PDon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:45:27 No.23206846 Report

Quoted By:

>>23206831
You got it backwards. Steelix's defense buff is not a waste because more defense is always good.
More attack on the other hand is useless if it's not high enough to outperform special attacks, even in niche situations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:47:57 No.23206857 Report

Quoted By: >>23206886

>>23206802
I'm more surprised by these actually:

>Reshiram should be moved down to D-Rank. It loses to everything in S and A+ Rank thanks to its combination of an SR weakness, terrible defensive-typing and poor speed. Its typing in particular is extremely awful because it doesn't have the benefits of either its Fire or Dragon typing (no Fairy and water resistance for example) while also inheriting the weaknesses of both (Ground Weakness, Dragon Weakness, SR weakness, etc.). Its an ineffective Scarf user due to it's STAB moves having a multitude of switch-ins in the current metagame and normal offensive sets suffer from having virtually no switch-in opportunities, a predictable moveset, and a SR weakness. Only reason this mon shouldn't move down to d-rank is that it doesn't have the insane amount of opportunity cost that the current D-Rank mons do, but that's it.

>Arceus-Ice: C >>>> C+ Rank

With Ice being a great STAB in the current meta, and its ability to check Yveltal + Mence means its only right that it moves up.

Someone is even advocating for B-.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:54:26 No.23206886 Report

Quoted By: >>23206954

>>23206857
Even Reshiram is not healthy in OU, it is still too powerful and flame charge/tailwind could fix its speed problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 11:57:36 No.23206901 Report

Quoted By:

>>23206652
It's not shit, it's far from being shit. Primal Groudon is just much better, so their roles have been turned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 12:02:38 No.23206925 Report

Quoted By: >>23206958

>>23206831
>0 Atk Primal Kyogre Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Heavy Rain: 93-109 (27.2 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Damn, that's not bad.

Anyway, yeah; it may be less useful than Primal Groudon's SpA boost with how sparse its physical movepool is, but it still gets what it needs to make use of it. Waterfall or Aqua Tail lets it muscle past physical walls even without much investment.

0 Atk Primal Kyogre Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Heavy Rain: 184-217 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Primal Kyogre Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Heavy Rain: 207-244 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 12:06:57 No.23206954 Report

Quoted By:

>>23206886
we see reshiram getting suggested a lot for ou. what people don't understand is that it was largely nerfed and irrelevant only compared to its peers. to most of the rest of the pokedex it's still an absolute monster. people like to compare it to the charizards but in reality they would only benefit from each other out a la rayquaza/salamence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Apr 2015 12:07:38 No.23206958 Report

Quoted By:

>>23206925
Whoops. I mean it lets it muscle past special walls, my bad.

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