/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #23367761

>>23367832

They just haven't updated the site yet

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-usage-based-tier-update-may-2015.3537414/

Tornadus-Therian moved from BL to OU
Scrafty moved from UU to RU
Gallade moved from OU to UU
Kingdra moved from UU to RU
Mandibuzz moved from OU to UU
Flygon moved from UU to RU
Alakazam moved from UU to OU
Haunter moved from PU to NU
Heliolisk moved from RU to UU
Dragalge moved from BL2 to UU
Mamoswine moved from OU to UU
Hippowdon moved from UU to OU
Fletchinder moved from RU to NU
Sigilyph moved from BL3 to RU
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU
Camerupt moved from NU to RU
Magneton moved from RU to NU
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU
Doublade moved from RU to UU
Cresselia moved from RU to UU
Slowking moved from RU to UU
Noivern moved from UU to RU
Tauros moved from BL4 to NU
Kabutops moved from RU to NU
Seismitoad moved from NU to RU
Prinplup moved from PU to NU

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 21:31:20 No.23367859 Report

Quoted By: >>23367971 >>23368138 >>23368431

>>23367843
>Heliolisk moved from RU to UU
But why

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 21:32:27 No.23367862 Report

Quoted By:

Adapt to it dumbass, stop using the exact same team that faired you well in a Mamoswineless environment.
It's fucking you because you're letting it fuck you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 21:33:26 No.23367870 Report

Quoted By: >>23368199

>>23367843
>Prinplup moved from PU to NU

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 21:34:21 No.23367876 Report

Quoted By:

>>23367843
Ok I'm sorry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 21:36:17 No.23367888 Report

Quoted By: >>23367896

>>23367783
>I can't adapt, plz ban
UU in a nutshell

Actually, Smogon in a nutshell

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 21:36:54 No.23367892 Report

Quoted By: >>23368209

>>23367843
>Gallade moved from OU to UU
The dream is over.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 21:37:22 No.23367896 Report

Quoted By: >>23367962

>>23367888
>implying Mamoswine is not completely out of place here

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 21:46:34 No.23367962 Report

Quoted By: >>23368323

>>23367896
It's a predictable physical attacker that has many ways to be dealt with, get gud

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 21:48:01 No.23367971 Report

Quoted By: >>23368138

>>23367859
STABed Hyper Voice from tutors probably helped it. Unlike Jolteon it has perfect with coverage with it's STABs and other moves alongside being a sponge for Water attacks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:14:24 No.23368138 Report

Quoted By: >>23368145

>>23367859
>>23367971
it's because raikou moved up to uu the other month, which left uu in need of a fast electric to help with all the bulky waters they have. helps that heliolisk has loads of coverage and dry skin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:15:32 No.23368145 Report

Quoted By:

>>23368138
typo, i meant raikou moved to up to ou not uu

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:23:34 No.23368199 Report

Quoted By:

>>23367870
There aren't very many options that combine both Rocks and Defog that low without being weak to Rocks themselves. Also Scald.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:24:51 No.23368209 Report

Quoted By: >>23368222

>>23367892
Mega Gallade is OU, just like his whore sister.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:26:55 No.23368222 Report

Quoted By:

>>23368209
Doesnt matter if the mega is one tier, the whole polemon is that. Gallade as a whole didnt get enough usage to make the ou cut.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:29:21 No.23368237 Report

Quoted By: >>23368261

>>23367843
> | 11 | Starmie | 13.972% |
why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:33:19 No.23368261 Report

Quoted By: >>23368266 >>23368270 >>23368281

>>23368237
Because it's good

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:33:58 No.23368266 Report

Quoted By: >>23368271 >>23368275

>>23368261
but why so sudden?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:34:15 No.23368270 Report

Quoted By:

>>23368261
but what made it shoot up and why is it suddenly so good and used?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:34:21 No.23368271 Report

Quoted By: >>23368279

>>23368266
Starmie has been good for centuries

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:34:44 No.23368275 Report

Quoted By: >>23368288

>>23368266
Greninja and Aegislash aren't OU which means Starmie is the best special offensive water type after Keldeo and is the best spinner in the tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:35:05 No.23368278 Report

Quoted By: >>23369818 >>23372182

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-04/mega/ou-1825.txt
>Altaria 10.43118%
>Gardevoir 10.22633%
>Metagross 9.41167%
>Scizor 8.75831%
>Lopunny 8.63147%
>Sableye 7.11568%
>Venusaur 4.76677%
>Diancie 4.46633%
>Charizard X 3.75942%
>Charizard Y 3.36811%
>Manectric 3.04202%
>Heracross 2.55725%
>Gyarados 2.39906%
>Slowbro 2.39763%
>Alakazam 2.30917%
>Pinsir 2.03614%
>Latias 1.53609%
>Sceptile 1.36615%
>Garchomp 1.31421%
>Gallade 1.10385%
Geez, Gallade.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:35:16 No.23368279 Report

Quoted By: >>23368282 >>23368295 >>23368298

>>23368271
>UU until recently

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:36:03 No.23368281 Report

Quoted By:

>>23368261
it's not good it's just that everything that made it shit is banned

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:36:09 No.23368282 Report

Quoted By: >>23368325

>>23368279
>UU automatically means its shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:36:44 No.23368288 Report

Quoted By: >>23368308

>>23368275
>best spinner in the tier
So why is driller no longer the best?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:37:57 No.23368295 Report

Quoted By:

>>23368279
starmie is the only mon besides gengar that has been ou every gen since gen 1, it only dropped to uu for a short while because of greninja which is banned now

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:38:16 No.23368298 Report

Quoted By: >>23368325

>>23368279
>UU is bad

haha fuck off. much more competitive than OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:39:38 No.23368308 Report

Quoted By:

>>23368288
Because it's the best sweeper under the best weather in the tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:43:36 No.23368323 Report

Quoted By: >>23368375

>>23367962
You know what else is predictable? Xerneas, which doesn't prevent it from being uber.
Mamoswine has massive attack and almost perfect coverage with STABs alone, so it doesn't matter if it's predictable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:44:17 No.23368325 Report

Quoted By: >>23368359

>>23368282
>>23368298
>implying I said it's shit
It went from UU to 11th in OU
That's why I'm confused

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:51:07 No.23368359 Report

Quoted By:

>>23368325
Greninja and Aegislash are banned
Its only competition as a fast special attacking water type is Keldeo, except it's faster and has a better movepool
Its only competition as a fast spinner is Excadrill, it's 115 speed and has recovery, while Excadrill needs to be under sand to make sure it doesn't get completely blocked by Gengar

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:54:52 No.23368375 Report

Quoted By: >>23368424 >>23368449

>>23368323
>Xerneas
Mamoswine can't sweep teams with one move, it dishes out good damage with predictable moves and average speed and that's it, it can't set up sweeps or do anything ridiculous

UU is full of bulky waters that beat it. Actually almost everything that countered it in gen 4 OU is usable in this tier. If you can't handle it you just fucking suck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 22:59:34 No.23368406 Report

Quoted By:

>hurr adapt
If you're saying this shit then you're not playing UU right now

Mamo is too much, but of course the "LE GIT GUD XD" mentality will make you shits comment on metas you don't play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 23:00:38 No.23368424 Report

Quoted By: >>23368544

>>23368375
>UU is full of bulky waters that beat it.
Except it smashes through them with EQ or Freeze Dry

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 23:01:36 No.23368431 Report

Quoted By: >>23369741

>>23367859
Counters Crocune

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 23:04:39 No.23368449 Report

Quoted By: >>23368544

>>23368375
>UU is full of bulky waters that beat it
Crocune is the only bulky Water-type in the tier that can take two Earthquakes or Freeze Drys from the LO set.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 May 2015 23:22:53 No.23368544 Report

Quoted By:

>>23368424
>>23368449
Freeze Dry is useless except for Swampert otherwise EQ does more, no one should be using that, Blastoise and Alomomola are others that can take two EQs

It's almost no different to how it functioned in gen 4, has quite a few safe defensive answers, not difficult to revenge kill and you can pivot its Ice Shards and EQs with offensive teams.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 02:45:35 No.23369741 Report

Quoted By: >>23370043

>>23368431
Still pretty weak

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 03:00:45 No.23369818 Report

Quoted By: >>23369851 >>23369955 >>23371052

>>23368278
Holy shit near all of those are megas.
And people who don't like them get told "it's optional."

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 03:06:34 No.23369851 Report

Quoted By:

>>23369818
>being this retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 03:23:21 No.23369955 Report

Quoted By:

>>23369818
lrn to read fgt

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 03:39:12 No.23370043 Report

Quoted By:

>>23369741

Countering an S Rank UU and not being dead weight after that like stupid shit lAssVest Skunktank to counter Greninja is a great thing my dear anon.

also there's a lot of threatening water types in UU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 06:18:58 No.23371052 Report

Quoted By:

>>23369818
actually fucking kill yourself this is a terrible shitpost

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 06:29:15 No.23371083 Report

Quoted By:

Hardcore UU player since Adv here.

Mamoswine is truly an aberration in the UU tier as of today. Few people are prepared to deal with it, as it can easily steamroll typical walls (Empoleon, Florges, Rotom-H w/Stone Edge, etc).

That being said, it's actually really easy to brace for this. There's a plethora of mons that do a great job at checking Mamoswine (Infernape, Heracross, Heliolisk), and even then there's a few counters to it (Rotom-H for non-Stone Edge variants, Crocune, Forretress...). UU is a relatively fast-paced tier where Mamoswine isn't particularly good at setting up rocks, but instead pulls a great job at fat offensive. Besides, most decent teams already have at least one or two answers for Mamoswine, even if they're guaranteed one man down in the process. Then again, this same logic applies to HO megas, such as Aerodactyl and Heracross.

tl;dr, Mamoswine is nuking the whole tier and will probably be banned, but it's nowhere as bad as people claim it to be. Titanic HP doesn't mean much when you've got a single resistance (barring Thick Fat) and mediocre speed.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO serperior.gif, 12KiB, 600x600

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 08:58:04 No.23371482 Report

Quoted By: >>23371531

>UU at best

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 09:33:32 No.23371531 Report

Quoted By: >>23371533 >>23371587 >>23372050

>>23371482
It's only OU because shiny new toy syndrome. Good players have started to realize it's pretty bad and not deserving of its current OU status.
Expect it to drop in August.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 09:34:18 No.23371533 Report

Quoted By: >>23371537 >>23371540

>>23371531
name your switch in UU

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 09:34:51 No.23371537 Report

Quoted By: >>23371541

>>23371533
Crobat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 09:36:28 No.23371540 Report

Quoted By: >>23371543 >>23371587

>>23371533
Oh it's not dropping in UU because it's banned there, I meant its usage will drop and will end up BL.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 09:36:44 No.23371541 Report

Quoted By: >>23371547

>>23371537

Offensive, Supportive, or (ugh) Defensive or (kek) Special Gimmick?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 09:37:50 No.23371543 Report

Quoted By: >>23371587

>>23371540
Nah Serperior screams "noob bait" like Electivire in gen 4 and Haxorus in gen 5. It's extremely noob-friendly since all you need to do is spamming Leaf Storm so the bad players will keep it in OU for the rest of the generation.
I agree it's overrated as fuck and shouldn't be even close to OU though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 09:41:24 No.23371547 Report

Quoted By:

>>23371541
Who cares? The other guy is going to retire his Serperior as soon as he sees a Crobat, and as long as you're carrying Brave Bird you can beat it reliably. Crobat outspeeds and 0hko's with minimal attack investment, while Serperior needs a +2 HD Rock to 0hko.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 10:02:47 No.23371587 Report

Quoted By: >>23371674 >>23371724

>>23371543
>>23371540
>>23371531
you're a set of retards and knowing /vp/ complete scrubs that don't even play. so deluded by your hate that it originally shouldn't be ou that you can't accept that it is ou and it just HAS to drop.

also "noob bait" is hilarious, considering lots of stuff in ou (talonflame) are like that, yet haven't dropped. if you think only noobs use it you're just further proving the point that you know jack shit. also none of the good players are saying it's bad, but nice try regardless to the anon that said that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 10:37:45 No.23371674 Report

Quoted By: >>23371678 >>23371821 >>23371837

>>23371587
Except Talonflame can do more than just Brave Bird since it can viably run bulky boosting sets, can check physical attackers with WoW and can stallbreak with Taunt.
Serperior is a one-trick pony with Contrary Leaf Storm and all its sets have very little variation besides that.
Besides Flying is so much better offensively than Grass it's not even a contest.

And yes good players do say how awful Serperior is on the high ladder since the most used mons up there make its life miserable. Mega Lopunny, Talonflame, Scarf Lando-T, Charizard Y and of course Heatran are just a handful of common mons that completely invalidate Serperior and its shitty grass STAB.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 10:39:36 No.23371678 Report

Quoted By:

>>23371674
Oh and of course Mega Altaria, you know, the most used mega.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 10:59:32 No.23371724 Report

Quoted By: >>23371821

>>23371587
>#42 in 1825 stats
>#29 in default stats
>not noob bait

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 11:40:32 No.23371821 Report

Quoted By: >>23372037

>>23371674
serperior is useful to break slower teams and cores (oh no it can't beat heatran such a shame you have five other slots to help it out - i guess talonflame is bad too because it can't beat heatran and heatran gives clefable too so i guess clefable is bad. cry me a fucking river). it's clear you don't know what you're talking about or how it's supposed to be used when the "one-trick pony" it does is actually good at. it plows through bulkier mons + more balanced teams when it gets going.

and if talonflame is more diverse or if flying is better makes no difference to the outcome: because the point is that it's still a "noob" friendly mon and they still flock to it because its priority brave bird is easy to use and completely brainless. do you think noobs are using talonflame sp.def sets? no, they will be using swords dance or choice band, so being diverse matters none.

here's a hint: it wouldn't be A- in their ranking thread if it was shit because those ranks are decided by players who actually play and aren't complete garbage like /vp/. do you think that the people in charge of the thread (which are a group of good players) would have agreed to move it up if it was that bad?

do me a favour and stop thinking you know better just because you're too bigheaded to admit you were wrong and saw some epic shitter spouting hate and decided to try and parrot them like a brainless mong.

>>23371724
loads of mons are used less or more on different parts of the ladder, the players at 1695 (which the stat mostly draw from iirc) aren't noobs you know. i bet you people replying with your oh-so-correct opinion haven't even gotten that high.

and here's the thing, #42 is still in ou if we were to use the 1825 stats to dictate tiers, so it wouldn't even be uu then. so i guess people higher on the ladder are noobs too for not letting it drop to uu either right!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 11:48:13 No.23371837 Report

Quoted By: >>23372037

>>23371674
>Serperior is a one-trick pony with Contrary Leaf Storm
>defends talonflame when all it's known for is brave bird

Talonflame's Brave Bird is to Talonflame what Leaf Storm is to Serperior. I don't know why you're trying to argue otherwise, like Talonflame would even be used without its priority Brave Bird - "Talonflame can do more than just Brave Bird". It wouldn't. So if Serperior is a one trick pony for spamming Leaf Storm then Talonflame is for spamming Brave Bird. Sure, you can change the nature and EVs with Talonflam but all it comes down to at the end of the day is its ability. Serperior also has useful moves like Taunt, Glare, Synthesis and Knock Off which it can use as the team needs. It's not like every set is Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse/Hidden Power/Giga Drain. Sure it doesn't change its EVs but it has some variation, and it has a good speed tier and no priority, so there's little reason to, which is the case for lots of Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 13:11:50 No.23372037 Report

Quoted By: >>23372058 >>23372320 >>23372342

>>23371821
>>23371837

I hit 1800's on the ladder with both balanced and stall teams and Serperior has never a real threat to me so I perfectly know what I'm talking about. My stall team had Amoonguss (though that was mainly for Keldeo and I was using it long before Contrary was released) so Serperior was a free switch-in, while my balanced team runs Mega Altaria which completely walls it and even sets up on its face if it's bold enough to stay in.
And as I said before there are so many other threats that can take advantage of Serperior that's not even funny.

And nobody uses the brainless CB/SD Talonflame sets high on the ladder so I don't care if noobs run those. Taunt Talonflame is more of a threat to any playstyle than Serperior can ever hope to be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 13:19:50 No.23372050 Report

Quoted By:

>>23371531
Don't worry my friend. When Aegislash returns, it will slap Serperishit's shit so hard that it's sent back down to RU where it belongs.

Aegislash is not going to allow Serperishit to stick around in OU. It simply won't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 13:25:17 No.23372058 Report

Quoted By:

>>23372037
>I run counters so it must not be a threat to anybody else!
Jesus christ you're obnoxious

Who cares if it's a onetrick pony? It does what it's supposed to do and has extremely limited switch ins, especially if you let it get past +2

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 14:15:46 No.23372182 Report

Quoted By: >>23372506 >>23372510 >>23372527

>>23368278
inb4 altaria is a shitmon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 15:04:17 No.23372320 Report

Quoted By:

>>23372037
>SD Talonflame
>brainless

What? the CB is brainless, sure, but SD Talonflame is one of the greatest cleaner in the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 15:11:53 No.23372342 Report

Quoted By:

>>23372037
Plenty of high ladder players use swords dance/acro talonflame.

I see it in tours too.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO son.jpg, 32KiB, 712x712

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 15:54:22 No.23372506 Report

Quoted By:

>>23372182
Seems like this meme is finally dying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 15:55:16 No.23372510 Report

Quoted By:

>>23372182
It is, stop deluding yourself thinking it isn't

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 15:58:59 No.23372527 Report

Quoted By: >>23372904 >>23372911

>>23372182
It's not good though, It's just an overhyped shiny new toy hyped up by idiots who don't know better. It will fall down to UU soon enough.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 16:02:22 No.23372537 Report

Quoted By:

Here we go again.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO image.jpg, 178KiB, 600x651

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 16:05:37 No.23372555 Report

Quoted By: >>23372588 >>23373372

Please leave PU for fuck's sake
You deserve better

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1429047182585.jpg, 18KiB, 199x183

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 16:11:46 No.23372588 Report

Quoted By: >>23372618

>>23372555
I don't get it, sure it doesn't have the best stats but its one of the more effective shell smash users and has a bit more speed over most others to actually take advantage of.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 16:18:43 No.23372618 Report

Quoted By:

>>23372588

Poor accuracy. When two of your attacks have 80% hit rates and the other has 90% you're going to be racking up a lot of untimely misses......at least that's what I've experienced using mine. Still love the design.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 16:24:07 No.23372635 Report

Quoted By: >>23372702

what uu moveset do people use for mamo that make people think its op?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 16:44:14 No.23372702 Report

Quoted By:

>>23372635
The usual.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 17:18:29 No.23372887 Report

Quoted By:

Mamo wouldn't even be too much for UU if some of the shit from BL was actually let back down.

>B-BUT MY STALL

Wall breakers are a thing, fucking deal with it. You can't ban every decent offensive mon then expect the tier to be able to adapt to new threats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 17:20:55 No.23372904 Report

Quoted By:

>>23372527
>a-any day now!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 17:22:04 No.23372911 Report

Quoted By:

>>23372527
>Mega Altaria
>new

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO le trash.png, 50KiB, 180x191

Anonymous Tue 05 May 2015 18:38:57 No.23373372 Report

Quoted By:

>>23372555
>no Waterfall

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