/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #25291632

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magic guard = cancer

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:42:57 No.25291632 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>25291639 >>25291651 >>25291691 >>25292003 >>25292050 >>25292316 >>25292532 >>25292646 >>25292910 >>25293726 >>25294134

>magic guard
>immune to entry hazards
>immune to toxic and burn
>immune to infestation/other traps

>movepool
>huge boosts
>heals
>massive damage

>typing
>among the best defensively
>immune to dragon tail

every team needs a roar, huh?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:45:38 No.25291639 Report

Quoted By: >>25292003

>>25291632
You forgot
>immune to LO damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:48:37 No.25291651 Report

Quoted By: >>25291665 >>25291672 >>25291757

>>25291632
Funny how this is only a problem after fairy turned up. Clefable has had Magic Guard for ages.

Oh, and Clefable has always been pretty good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:51:02 No.25291665 Report

Quoted By: >>25291669 >>25291676 >>25291887 >>25292003

>>25291651
Fairy is one of the worst things to happen to Pokémon mechanics in a long time

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:52:28 No.25291669 Report

Quoted By: >>25291677

>>25291665
There's been worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:53:36 No.25291672 Report

Quoted By: >>25291683 >>25292003 >>25292724

>>25291651
1. Moonblast is a ridiculously strong STAB move that is resisted by fuck all things
2. Fairy is a ridiculously strong defensive type
3. The only thing holding Clefable back from being a mega strong Pokemon was
a) its offensive typing
b) its defensive typing
Both are fixed

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:54:27 No.25291676 Report

Quoted By: >>25291689

>>25291665
Hahahahano.

Fairy was a good change, finally stopping the dragon BS. Fairy is just below the spec/phys split in terms of how great it was for the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:54:41 No.25291677 Report

Quoted By: >>25291685

>>25291669
Stealth Rock

What else though

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:56:03 No.25291683 Report

Quoted By: >>25291688 >>25291711 >>25291727

>>25291672
So what? Clefable as it exists now is still weaker overall than almost every pseudo dragon line that existed pre-gen VI.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:56:28 No.25291685 Report

Quoted By: >>25292888

>>25291677
Hidden abilities in gen 5. Turned everything into weather wars.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:57:21 No.25291688 Report

Quoted By: >>25291696 >>25294193

>>25291683
Considering the much smaller Pokemon pool and Clefable's agreed upon position in OU, you're pretty wrong, buddy.

Clefable is literally too good for OU but not good enough to be banned into Uber

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:57:30 No.25291689 Report

Quoted By: >>25291696 >>25292003

>>25291676
But why doesn't it have any real weaknesses?

You don't fix the problem of having a clearly best type by creating an even clearer cut best type

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 13:59:06 No.25291691 Report

Quoted By: >>25291700

>>25291632
Mad your pebbles are useless?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:00:23 No.25291696 Report

Quoted By: >>25291711 >>25291713

>>25291688
So weaker than Garchomp was in gen 4? Thanks for proving my point.

>>25291689
So poison is criminally under represented in the meta? Not fairies fault.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:01:44 No.25291700 Report

Quoted By: >>25292003

>>25291691
I hate stealth rock and wish all EH were nerfed or removed, or at least in some competitive tiers, so no, but it's clearly broken m8

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:06:13 No.25291711 Report

Quoted By: >>25291753

>>25291683
>>25291696
>f-fairies are for poopyheads
>m-muh dragon bros were better 10 years ago b-baka

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:06:19 No.25291713 Report

Quoted By: >>25291787 >>25291815

>>25291696
Dragons havery a real weakness in that Ice is SE against everything and it made sense for most mons to have an Ice move.

Poison is not in that it's only really useful against Fairies, so it's always going to be under represented. Fairy needs a weakness to something more common like Fire

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:08:45 No.25291727 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291683
This only applies to Garchomp and Salamence and only in gen 4. Dragonite and Hydreigon have never been the #1 best pokemon in OU like Clefable is now.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:11:14 No.25291734 Report

Quoted By: >>25291760

>gen 5
>teams of Outrage spamming fuckers who would tear apart any team that didn't pack a Ferrothorn since 95% of ice Pokemon were too frail to do shit about it
>Specs Draco Meteor Hydra/Latios/some other thing on every other team
>people winning by pressing one button
>gen 6
>Fairy stops all that shit
>indirectly buffs poison by giving it offensive presence though it should still be SE on Water
>my favorite Pokemon is now a terrifying powerhouse
Fairy is my new favorite type, dragonfags BTFO, keep crying.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:14:45 No.25291745 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:16:52 No.25291753 Report

Quoted By: >>25291760

>>25291711
I think you have the shit-head end of the stick. I am defending Fairy type because I like what it had done, and I was sick to fucking death of dragon everything outrage spam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:17:49 No.25291757 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291651
>And besides it only gets bigger!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:19:33 No.25291760 Report

Quoted By: >>25291788 >>25291798 >>25292003

>>25291753
>>25291734

Why can't Fairy stop Dragon but still not be overpowered? Fairy is now a problem that will have to be addressed by a new type some time in the future, the new Psychic and Dragon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:19:36 No.25291761 Report

Quoted By: >>25292003

This is all Thunder Wave's fault. You have literally no safe counter to this thing that won't get rendered permanently useless without cleric support other than SD Taunt EQ Roost Gliscor, and the only hard checks are physical Steel types. I swear that move is infinitely more cancerous than even Scald. At least getting your special attacker burned won't prevent it from dealing damage to your opponent. Getting paralysed against a bulky mon that's both a great setup sweeper and cleric is an instant game over in half of the time. Majority of the time it's brought against you for the first time you have no counterplay to speak of, all you can do is pray the variant you're facing is not about to skullfuck you to death after making a safe play.
>ban Thunder Wave
>ban Clefable
>don't do anything <- what Smogon will do
>remove RNG <- the blatantly best choice Smogon will never take

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:25:26 No.25291787 Report

Quoted By: >>25291813 >>25291815 >>25292003

>>25291713
stfu salty dragon kid! fairy is perfect >_<

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:25:28 No.25291788 Report

Quoted By: >>25292651

>>25291760
We don't need a new type, we just need better poison moves. There are very few usable ones now, with the top end of the power spectrum being fucking horrible in terms of accuracy and with a poor distribution on mons.

Get a few 'must have' poison moves in there and the problem becomes much more manageable.

Remember, poison hits quite a lot neutrally, is only blocked by steel, and is only resisted by types that are themselves pretty poor defensively. It has a place to shine if gamefreak would give it better moves.

Steel could use some offence too actually, but it is a little worse offensively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:28:46 No.25291798 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291760
If anything fairy is too weak right now.

It needs to resist ice, ground and flying in the next games. Maybe even make it immune to dark or ghost

Remove the steel weakness too, there are too many good steel type pokemon running around nowadays.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:34:25 No.25291813 Report

Quoted By: >>25291822 >>25292003

>>25291787
The only Dragon I've ever used is a Flygon. Fairy is broken for everyone, not just Dragon bros.

There's a thread right now that says "Make a shitmon better, hard mode no Fairy typing"

When adding a Fairy typing makes literally any Pokémon better, it's too strong

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:34:42 No.25291815 Report

Quoted By: >>25291879

>>25291713
>>25291787
So it's ok for dragons to be ever present and you need to plan to deal with them with most of your pokemons, but not ok for a type that has even less resists from Dragon to be present?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:36:52 No.25291822 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291813
stay salty, edgemaster kiddo

Can't handle even a single "pink blob" pokemon being good can you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:51:10 No.25291879 Report

Quoted By: >>25291890 >>25292003

>>25291815
Who said Dragons were ok? They were a problem and Fairy fixes that problem. Fairies are now just the same problem all over again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:54:54 No.25291887 Report

Quoted By: >>25291908

>>25291665

T. Garchompfag

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:55:21 No.25291890 Report

Quoted By: >>25291908

>>25291879
Gardy is now OU worthy thanks to fairy

your argument is invalid

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 14:58:53 No.25291908 Report

Quoted By: >>25291916 >>25292003 >>25293001

>>25291887
>>25291890
WTF is wrong with you people

Why is your response repeatedly that I'm a Dragon kid when I've said over and over that I'm glad Fairy fixed Dragon.

Why can't Fairy keep it's Dragon immunity /SE but also not be OP itself

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 15:00:36 No.25291916 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291908
t. hydreigonfag

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 15:21:12 No.25292003 Report

Quoted By: >>25292011 >>25292623 >>25294207

>>25291908
>>25291879
>>25291813
>>25291787
>>25291761
>>25291760
>>25291700
>>25291689
>>25291672
>>25291665
>>25291639
>>25291632

http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/
http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/#single
http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/#double
http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/#triple
http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/#rotation

Count the fairies
Count the Clefables

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 15:23:37 No.25292011 Report

Quoted By: >>25292022

>>25292003
it's a sign of a healthy meta.

of course you as a dragon kid wouldn't know anything about that would you?

I bet you think gen 4 meta was good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 15:24:59 No.25292016 Report

Quoted By: >>25292035 >>25292037 >>25292040 >>25292651

IMO Fairy needs at least one more weakness and one more type to resist it to be truly balanced. Having Bug be SE against it (Fairy currently resisting Bug is extremely dumb) and having Grass resist it would be fairly nice, both types sorely need a buff to compete.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 15:25:59 No.25292022 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292011
I was posting that FOR the dragon kids, famburger

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 15:28:56 No.25292035 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292016
This is a good idea. Not a lot of Dragons learn Bug moves so it doesn't mess that up

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 15:29:15 No.25292037 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292016
Grass should be strong against fairy honestly

It's in that spot where it's not a good enough type that it would break any one pokemon, but it's not useless dogshit like poison where having the type advantage does nothing for it.

It'd probably end up making stuff like breloom, sceptile and chesnaught better without being too broken like if you made them weak to ground or flying

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 15:29:42 No.25292040 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292016
I doubt those nerfs to fairy would make bug OR grass viable. The real problem is wjat hits those types for SE damage and what resists them (in both cases, way too much.)

I have no opinion on fairy resisting bug though. It's never really come up for me (about the only decent offensive bug move I can think of is bug buzz.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 15:31:24 No.25292050 Report

Quoted By: >>25292078 >>25292407

>>25291632
>immune to dragon tail

Fairy's immunity to Dragon is so retarded when you think about it
All the other immunities make sense, but not this one
It should have been "not very effective", nothing more

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 15:36:55 No.25292078 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292050
Blame Outrage for that. If the immunity didn't exist, Outrage users wouldn't get disrupted like they do now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 16:21:01 No.25292316 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291632
But u can still kill it with an attack u dolt

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 16:37:06 No.25292407 Report

Quoted By: >>25292533

>>25292050
I don't get why being immune to dragon tail is anything special at all. Ghost blocks circle throw and soundproof blocks roar and nobody gives a shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 16:59:59 No.25292532 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291632
>It resists bug

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:00:01 No.25292533 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292407
Clefable's immune to entry hazards so Roar and Whirlwind don't really punish it all that much compared to most other mons. Being immune to Dragon Tail on top of that is just icing on the cake. And it never has to worry about Circle Throw because it's resisted and the only things that get it are a couple of irrelevant Fighting types that don't appreciate taking a Moonblast to the face.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:07:56 No.25292580 Report

Quoted By:

someone kick your ass on Battle of Kanto?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:08:29 No.25292583 Report

Quoted By: >>25292687 >>25292790 >>25292874

>Psychic is the undisputed best type in gen 1, being based on the Special stat and having several great Pokemon to take advantage of that, hitting half the Pokemon in the game for SE damage thanks to them being part Poison and only being resisted by itself
>in every gen after that Psychic's importance is reduced further as strong Pokemon of both Steel and Dark types are brought in, less Poison types are used and better Ghost and Bug type moves are introduced and distributed
>there's no point in even carrying Psychic moves since the now-much-stronger Fighting type happens to have a weakness to Fairy and the aforementioned Steel and to a lesser extent Dark run rampant
Psychic, the most cucked and emasculated typing of all

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:11:59 No.25292600 Report

Quoted By: >>25292633

If fairy was weak to bug, and was resisted by bug, I think the metagame would be much better for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:16:42 No.25292623 Report

Quoted By: >>25292795

>>25292003
>using 3DS online play

lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:18:18 No.25292633 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292600
bug's the designated shitmon type and it will continue to be a shitmon type until the series dies.

it may as well not exist outside of u-turn

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:19:12 No.25292646 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291632
gid gud you u1900elo faggots. what the hell is this shit site? full of retarded pedohilias and animal fuckers? holy shit this site needs to get closed, not even competitivly are you guys useful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:19:31 No.25292651 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291788
>>25292016

Good stuff

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:23:30 No.25292687 Report

Quoted By: >>25292801

>>25292583
They took nerfing Psychic type way too far. It might even be the worst type now

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:28:41 No.25292724 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291672
>randomly having 30% chance to lower opponent special attack
>5 (or 15 depending on perspective) bp stronger than its counterparts from other types

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:28:47 No.25292725 Report

Quoted By: >>25292747 >>25294398

>there are people who say fairy was a buff to poison
Besides M-Venusaur there is no other Poison type even worth using (Maybe Crobat).
And most Fairies can learn Psychic attacks anyway. What a fucking joke.
In addition nobody runs fucking Poison for coverage unless they're retarded.
At least Ice is run for coverage, Poison has nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:31:21 No.25292747 Report

Quoted By: >>25292780

>>25292725
fuck off dragonkid

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:35:13 No.25292777 Report

Quoted By:

this thread is why /vp/ should have been deleted a long time ago

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:35:36 No.25292780 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292747

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:36:48 No.25292790 Report

Quoted By: >>25292812 >>25292823

>>25292583
This is so horribly true.
Psychic was fucking OP, and then, all of a sudden, its power sank into nothingness.

But remember, ice type has it even harder. But I won't give up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:37:45 No.25292795 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292623
>expecting GF to balance around made-up rules created by autists for autists

jej

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:38:49 No.25292801 Report

Quoted By: >>25292812

>>25292687
What is still ice

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:39:54 No.25292812 Report

Quoted By: >>25292822 >>25292932

>>25292801
>>25292790
Ice is one of the greatest offensive types in the game

Psychic has nothing

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:41:00 No.25292822 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292812
Did I say it was bad offensively?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:41:07 No.25292823 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292790
Psychic and Poison are bottom of the barrel Types.
And it's not going to change soon sadly.
Especially since last gen they got even fucking worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:45:02 No.25292855 Report

Quoted By:

>people saying poison was buffed because of fairy
If fairies didn't in general have such good spdef then it'd be true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:46:51 No.25292874 Report

Quoted By: >>25292905

>>25292583
Perhaps you should count how many psychic types there are in over used. It was powerful and was needed but it's still ok

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:49:39 No.25292888 Report

Quoted By: >>25292919 >>25292982

>>25291685
weather wars were fun in a stockholm syndrome kind of way

poison type pokemon were not buffed by fairy. poison type MOVE usage most definitely was, same with steel

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:52:24 No.25292905 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292874
>OU
>mattering to GF balancing

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:52:47 No.25292910 Report

Quoted By: >>25293658

>>25291632
>Fairy is now weak against Dark

Now Clefable and M-gardevoir fears Knock off

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:52:58 No.25292911 Report

Quoted By: >>25292941

>GF will never release a Poison-type pseudo-legendary

it hurts

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:53:47 No.25292919 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292888
>poison type move usage
If by that you mean Gunk Shot Greninja then yeah, that's about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:55:23 No.25292932 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292812
Just because ice type is good doesn't mean ice types are good

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:56:33 No.25292941 Report

Quoted By: >>25292955

>>25292911
>Poison has been around for 6 generations and doesn't have a Mythical or even a Legendary of any kind
>Fairy gets both in the Generation its introduced in and they're both very good
Fairy totally buffed Poison guys!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:58:07 No.25292955 Report

Quoted By: >>25292961 >>25292992

>>25292941
Poison is better than it's ever been all thanks to all the wonderful fairies they added this gen

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 17:59:22 No.25292961 Report

Quoted By: >>25292989

>>25292955
Yeah Greninja is the best Poison type I agree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:01:51 No.25292982 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292888
It was a buff to previously already good poison type pokemon, but yeah it definitely didn't make the mass amounts of shit poison types better

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:02:44 No.25292988 Report

Quoted By:

You people are only really talking about Clefable/gardevoir lets be honest and stop dragging all fairies into this. They're far from all great. About 6 come to mind b/w ou/uu that arent shit.
Clef/Gard/Sylv/Flor/Swir/Granbull

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:02:58 No.25292989 Report

Quoted By: >>25293022

>>25292961
>Mega Venusaur
>Mega Beedrill
>Tentacruel
>Gengar
>Drapion
>Toxicroak
>Scolipede
>Amoonguss

Even Nidoking can force switches and get kills similar to Crawdaunt and Diggersby.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:03:12 No.25292992 Report

Quoted By: >>25293008

>>25292955
You mean the already OP Steel-type is better due to all Fairies, right?
>There are a good number of Fairy-types that cover Poison weakness
>two of them are flat-out immune to Poison
>only 2 fairies try to cover their Steel weakness
>one of them is a shitmon

T-Thanks

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:03:58 No.25293001 Report

Quoted By: >>25293060

>>25291908
Make bug resist fairy
Make grass resist fairy
'Balnace'

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:04:48 No.25293008 Report

Quoted By:

>>25292992
I think Steel being SE against Fairy was the right move, but they should remove its resistance to Fairy and reinstate the resistance to Ghost. Then, make Grass resist Fairy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:07:55 No.25293022 Report

Quoted By: >>25293088

>>25292989
So Pokemon who would be good even if they didn't have Poison type because they have broken moves, abilities and amazing stat distribution?
Gengar didn't have STAB moves to use with it's good Special Attack for 3 gens and it was still a beast and now it's absolutely broken with its mega.
>Drapion
>Toxicroak
>Tentacruel
>good

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:13:50 No.25293060 Report

Quoted By: >>25293073

>>25293001
Gen seven could use a defensive boost to the game so they can distribute coverage moves better. Deeper move pools will make more pokemon fun. Ice resists grass and ground, rock resists ice, dragon resists flying, and grass resists fairy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:16:36 No.25293073 Report

Quoted By: >>25294515

>>25293060
>ice resists grass
As bad as GF making the most resisted type in the game resisted by yet another type for no reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:18:04 No.25293088 Report

Quoted By: >>25293195 >>25293378

>>25293022
>So Pokemon who would be good even if they didn't have Poison type because they have broken moves, abilities and amazing stat distribution?

If you want to break it down to that level, yes, because that's what makes any Pokemon of a type relevant. You don't see people using Carbink or Wigglytuff -- it's always the same Fairy types. In that same way, it's always going to be the best Poison types used -- whoever can perform multiple roles apart from having the benefits of Poison type.

If they didn't have Poison type, they wouldn't be as useful considering the immunity to poison, resistance to Fighting and Bug and Fairy, and capability now to hit Fairies 3x as hard as a non-STAB neutral hit.

Drapion's Poison typing removes its Dark typing weaknesses, Toxicroak is an underrated sweeper considering it comes in on Keldeo pretty much freely, Tentacruel is a great special wall and spinner (the last one I shouldn't have had to tell you since it's well-known).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:20:14 No.25293104 Report

Quoted By: >>25294324 >>25294337

Ghost resisting bug is dumb in the first place but now that Fairy resists bug there really is no reason to believe that GF gives a fuck about bugs. It's ridiculous that fairy has a great immunity and two resistances when ice type only resists itself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:38:26 No.25293195 Report

Quoted By: >>25293395

>>25293088
Steel also is completely immune to Poison, resists Bug and Fairy and hits Fairy SE, even more reliably than Poison, the only difference being Fighting effectiveness, but Fighting effectiveness has dumbed down now with Talonflame and Fairies, so it's even easier for Steels to over-class Poison.
The Pokemon you listed would be used regardless of Fairy existing, just look at fucking Breloom, Spore got nerfed, Talonflame exists and it's also weak to Fairy, yet it's OU regardless of its typing. Meanwhile all Pure Poison types are worthless and there are more Fairy types in OU now than there have ever been Poison-types.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 18:49:29 No.25293291 Report

Quoted By: >>25293381

Fairy fucked the balance up more than Dragon.

But I don't have too much problem because I'm always using my Steel overlords.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:02:22 No.25293378 Report

Quoted By: >>25293432 >>25293523

>>25293088
The problem is similar to why grass isn't a great counter for water types: Most fairies get psychic coverage, so they can't even properly work as a counter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:02:50 No.25293381 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293291
fairy/fire is pretty common on clef, it's almost as strong as things like dragon/ground/fire ou ghost/fighthing were during gen 4/5

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:05:02 No.25293395 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293195
I'm not sure I see your point, since the same Steel mons would be used without Fairy existing too. The original argument seemed to be that you thought Poison types weren't enjoying it more this gen, with Greninja being the best Poison type because it can change typing. Steel types may be enjoying the presence of Fairies too, but that doesn't mean Poison is worthless. For example, Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss are two of the safest switch-ins to Banded Azumarill. Just because Fighting type mons aren't as used doesn't mean Fighting type moves aren't. It's also part of the reason SpDef Drapion is a better wall to Gengar than SpDef Heatran is.

The problem with pure Poison types has more to do with their lack of recovery than just being pure Poison. Weezing and Muk would be amazing with Recover.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:09:26 No.25293432 Report

Quoted By: >>25293448

>>25293378
Most Fairies get Fighting coverage too.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1429101391280.png, 42KiB, 592x533

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:12:32 No.25293448 Report

Quoted By: >>25293463

>>25293432
>Comparing Focus Miss to Psychic and Psyshock

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:15:56 No.25293463 Report

Quoted By: >>25293478

>>25293448
>bringing up Psychic at all
>bringing up Psyshock when only Gardevoir and Specs Sylveon run it

two can play that game
also
>forgetting Superpower and Aura Sphere

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:19:47 No.25293478 Report

Quoted By: >>25293526

>>25293463
>bringing up Psyshock when only Gardevoir and Specs Sylveon run it
Well of course one runs it for STAB the other because it has NO MOVES, no other reason really considering Poison is worthless.

Don't think I've seen an Aura Sphere since Gen 5 though and Superpower is only Azumarill.
The thing is Fairies could run Psychic coverage if they needed to, but they don't, there's no point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:26:26 No.25293523 Report

Quoted By: >>25293704

>>25293378
I can't think about any fairy that uses it's psychic coverage outside of the ones that get stab on it, it's often just not worth the slot.

Clef has to chose between SR, wish/protect, softboil, heal bell, moonblast, calm mind, bolt, beat and F-thrower/F-blast.
The only set I can think of that commonly uses any psychic attack is the CM/cosmic power + stored power one but it uses stored power because of how big the BS is, not because fairy/psychic has good coverage.

Heck, now that I think about it, two of the best poison types in OU are weak to fire and the third one is frail enough so that he can't switch into clef fearing the moonblast/F-thrower/bolt/beam

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:26:49 No.25293526 Report

Quoted By: >>25293538

>>25293478
That's why I said two can play that game.

Fairies don't run Psychic coverage in general because Ground covers all the resistances much better, while support sets are mono-attacking, and Fire coverage is better because Scizor and Ferrothorn are more present as 4x weak mons than Toxicroak is, and Toxicroak has Dry Skin anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:28:41 No.25293538 Report

Quoted By: >>25293550

>>25293526
>Ground
Most Fairies don't learn Ground moves at all though.
Not like it matters, Poison types are too worthless to even consider.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:30:36 No.25293550 Report

Quoted By: >>25293563 >>25293566

>>25293538
HP Ground Sylveon/Gardevoir, Earth Power Diancie, EQ Altaria

Azu and Clef don't, Klefki is purely support

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:34:13 No.25293563 Report

Quoted By: >>25293575

>>25293550
>HP
>gen 6
lol?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:34:51 No.25293566 Report

Quoted By: >>25293575 >>25293634

>>25293550
>HP
Now you're just fucking with me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:35:47 No.25293575 Report

Quoted By: >>25293598 >>25293625

>>25293563
>>25293566
>I've never seen a Heatran before

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:39:59 No.25293598 Report

Quoted By: >>25293620

>>25293575
Heatran's special movepool is really, really, really fucking awful, to the point where running HP is one of the better offensive coverage options.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:45:13 No.25293620 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293598
What the fuck is wrong with you? Hidden Power Ground is to hit Heatran, the most common switch-in to Sylveon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:46:33 No.25293625 Report

Quoted By: >>25293655 >>25294536

>>25293575
>I really really like women

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:48:59 No.25293634 Report

Quoted By: >>25293656

>>25293566
Are you seriously implying HP's are dead?

Even if they're weaker, having the ability to hit a common mon with a 240 BP move is still a great option if your movepool is limited or if this mon is very common and/or good at walling you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:52:44 No.25293655 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293625
dude lemme resort to ad hominems because I have nothing valuable to say but I wanna get the last word in lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:52:45 No.25293656 Report

Quoted By: >>25293695 >>25293696 >>25294525

>>25293634
Yes but you're talking about smogon here not cart, I almost NEVER see HP on cart because it's too much of a hassle to get a useful HP most of the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:53:16 No.25293658 Report

Quoted By: >>25293677 >>25293680 >>25293695

>>25292910
The only thing worse than Fairy was the Knock Off buff. Why make it even more cancerous?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:56:25 No.25293677 Report

Quoted By: >>25293683

>>25293658
Anything that can learn Knock-Off, I give it Knock-Off.

I like the buff. I like the Fairy-Typing too

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:57:28 No.25293680 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293658
Well, has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:58:19 No.25293683 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293677
Worse than Hitler.
Why is Gunk Shot distribution so pants on head retarded? It would have been so good on Nidoking but he doesn't even fucking get it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:59:43 No.25293695 Report

Quoted By: >>25293714

>>25293656
So then why would he be fucking with you? You're the one who assumed cart, especially when Smogon is more fleshed out in its competitive scene in comparison.

>>25293658
The Knock Off buff was a mistake, yeah. Dark was much tamer when the best non-conditional move on the physical side was Crunch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 19:59:50 No.25293696 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293656
I saw a lot of HP's on cart back in gen 4, most of them were hacked but people didn't mind where I played, the option to OHKO chomp/mence/nite was just too important to be missed.

I don't know f that still holds true, especially since people seem to frown upon hacked mons more often than they used to and 2v2 is now the main format but, since you don't have to get the 70 BP iv's and breeding in general is easier, I wouldn't be surprised to learn people find the time to breed 6IV's with the right HP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 20:00:57 No.25293704 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293523
But the point is that they could use Psychic if the meta got to that point. Clefable doesn't have to run Psychic to check Poison types because Poison types are garbage anyway and won't ever show up. The only reason a Poison would be played is to counter Fairy, but since most Fairies can counter Poison there's no point and they cancel out. It's why there hasn't been a huge increase in Poison types that see play, but have been a lot of Fairies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 20:01:52 No.25293714 Report

Quoted By: >>25293734 >>25293764

>>25293695
>Dark was much tamer when the best non-conditional move on the physical side was Crunch.
"Tamer" yeah, as in it fucking sucked.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 20:02:56 No.25293726 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291632
magic guard is for fags
unaware master race

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 20:02:58 No.25293727 Report

Quoted By:

I don't typically have trouble with Fairies because I actually remember to use Steel moves.
The only thing that's really bullshit about Fairy is how it nerfs bug even more. Did it Really need a bug resist? Come on GF.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 20:04:21 No.25293734 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293714
sucker punch was K

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 20:08:20 No.25293764 Report

Quoted By: >>25293822

>>25293714
I'd rather have a bunch of types suck rather than a bunch of types overpowered. Fairy and Flying are other ones that need to be nerfed, considering -ate abilities make their STABs essentially 100+ power. I don't see why GF toned attack power in moves like Flamethrower and Fire Blast down if they were going to introduce Moonblast and Hyper Voice/Return-boosting abilities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 20:11:03 No.25293784 Report

Quoted By:

>tfw I have Clefable AND Reuniclus in my draft team

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 20:16:54 No.25293822 Report

Quoted By: >>25293876

>>25293764
> I don't see why GF toned attack power in moves like Flamethrower and Fire Blast down if they were going to introduce Moonblast and Hyper Voice/Return-boosting abilities

Adding to this, I don't see why they would introduce a blatant steroid type when Outrage and drob a draco :^) were the real problems. Dragon as a typing was just alright. They ran rampant because they were either legendaries or 600 BST beasts (and guess what, those same fuckers still run rampant today, because unlike the weaker dragons that got absolutely bumfucked, they don't care about fairies all that much. Unless you're Hydreigon, that is) with easily spammable moves. Just nerf them like you nerfed most special moves and this clusterfuck could've been avoided.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 20:25:33 No.25293876 Report

Quoted By: >>25294271

>>25293822
The big dragons of the past lost a lot of their splendeur...
the lati's def got weaker, there are a couple more safe draco switch-ins than they were before, the choice spec set has pretty much disappeared and nobody even thinks about banning them into Uber.
Mence dropped into UU, clef and azu are a big part of tat.
Also, chomp's most popular set is tankchomp which might be strong but it is waaaaaaaaaaaay easier to prepare for than "you either run scarm or lose a mon every-time I come in" was back in gen 4-5.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:09:52 No.25294134 Report

Quoted By:

>>25291632
>what is gunk shot

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:17:38 No.25294193 Report

Quoted By: >>25294223

>>25291688
It's not too good for OU, it struggles to get past other CM users and Heatran and other Steel-types and lacks speed or priority.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:20:26 No.25294207 Report

Quoted By: >>25294271

>>25292003
They don't even run clefable softboiled.
Not even joking. Rest is 15% used IIRC, but softboiled isn't even listed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:22:07 No.25294223 Report

Quoted By: >>25294326

>>25294193
yeah, it beats other CM when it has unaware and unaware CM clef is a thing.
It's decent SpA and access to F-thrower and F-blast also makes it risky for scizor, ferro and physically deffensive skarm before you've scouted a bit.

of course, unaware CM is vulnerable to toxic and loses to chancey and using stab+fire loses clef access to bolt-beam, I'm not saying clef is too good for OU, I'm only saying it's surprisingly versatile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:28:31 No.25294271 Report

Quoted By: >>25294294

>>25293876
also they got aggressively mediocre megas instead of Soul Dew becoming usable

>>25294207
Softboiled is a Gen 3 tutor move so you can't have a Pentagon softboild clefable any more than you can have a pentagon Sucker Punch hitmonchan or almost anything with Defog

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:31:50 No.25294294 Report

Quoted By:

>>25294271
You know, it's really bizarre that the Latis didnt gain an ounce of speed for their Mega Evolution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:36:28 No.25294324 Report

Quoted By: >>25294479

>>25293104
>complaining about bug when you have scizor
fuck careeees

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:36:41 No.25294326 Report

Quoted By:

>>25294223
There's also CM + Stored Power sets for beating other CM users too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:37:51 No.25294337 Report

Quoted By: >>25294479

>>25293104
what else is ghost supposed to resist? This isn't rhetorical: what else would you have ghost resist?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:48:44 No.25294398 Report

Quoted By: >>25294428

>>25292725
>http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 21:54:45 No.25294428 Report

Quoted By:

>>25294398
>http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/
>Groudon is 9th

Wait, what?
Am I reading this wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:05:41 No.25294479 Report

Quoted By: >>25294503

>>25294324
I'm not complaining because I like bugs, you nig. I just think it's dumb to throw out resistances to types with little thought put into them. I agree with the sentiment that scizor is a piece of shit pain in the ass though, but being half steel is the reason for that though.

>>25294337
Why does it have to resist anything? It already has immunity to normal and fighting and a resistance to poison. I think the two immunities alone would be fine. Not every type has to resist anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:06:29 No.25294483 Report

Quoted By:

Hahahahhahahah people caring about magic bounce.
Hahahah people caring about fairy types

>2000+12+2+2
>Not using Le ruse room team
>Not wanting thunder wave spam to win even more
>6-0ing with skill swap cressellia and sylveon

Get the fug off my Le board meme cdDddDdxDd

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:10:51 No.25294503 Report

Quoted By: >>25294577

>>25294479
Why complain that Ice only has one then? Normal only has one too and no one rants that it's underpowered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:12:25 No.25294515 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293073
I enjoy how you tacitly accepted the rest

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:14:34 No.25294525 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293656
Getting the right HP is easier than ever, now that you only need to care about odds/evens.
Sure, something mixed with HP is gonna be annoying as shit, but if you only need one attacking stat it's really not as awful as it seems.
I should know, I bred a HP Fire Magnezone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:16:50 No.25294536 Report

Quoted By:

>>25293625
go away Aaron

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:29:05 No.25294577 Report

Quoted By:

>>25294503
Ice only resists itself (which is more of a hindrance than a help to ice types), has no immunities, and has four weaknesses.

Normal has an immunity and one weakness.

The only similarity between the two types is that they are both weak to fighting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:30:50 No.25294585 Report

Quoted By:

>not any type has to resist anything
>comparison brought up that Ice and Normal oly have one resistance
>they have nothing to do with each other

nigga what

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:38:38 No.25294621 Report

Quoted By: >>25294646 >>25294665

Magic bounce is the real problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:42:26 No.25294646 Report

Quoted By: >>25294667

>>25294621
>Only given to one pokemon who hopelessly loses to every fairy-type and a bunch of unforgivably frail shitmons
>problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:44:59 No.25294665 Report

Quoted By:

>>25294621
magic bounce is on two good mons, both of them are mega, the first can't switch-in safely into garchomp, excadril, ferroseed and so on, the second one is so passive it pretty much only fits stall, plus, it loses to every fairy or fire type in the tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 22:45:15 No.25294667 Report

Quoted By:

>>25294646

Have u heard about Mega Diance?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 23:49:11 No.25295208 Report

Quoted By: >>25295265

>Blackmarket contains 15 crocodile fragments

Well, guess I suddenly knows who my second melee dps is gonna be.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 23 Feb 2016 23:57:41 No.25295265 Report

Quoted By:

>>25295208

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