/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #28628331

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Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 04:57:06 No.28628331 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>28628353 >>28628378 >>28628757 >>28628787 >>28629267 >>28629472 >>28629542

>2016 M:TG champion won $70,000, 7 times more than the Pokemon VG champion
>thousands of people the world over play in the Pro Tour and World Cup tournaments, awarding thousands of dollars in prize money
>many PROFESSIONAL players also earn money from sponsorships
>this game is played PROFESSIONALLY
>relies in large part of a luck-based mechanic
>everyone who plays believes this is fair, and many players often devise tactics to work around it rather than complain about it

And yet you Smogonbabies wanna ban Double Team, Minimize, and anything else "luck-based".

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 04:58:53 No.28628353 Report

Quoted By: >>28628451

>>28628331

Then don't play on showdown if it bothers you so much.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1436163710764.png, 87KiB, 294x178

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:00:10 No.28628378 Report

Quoted By:

>>28628331
competitive pokemon is and always has been a joke

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:06:36 No.28628451 Report

Quoted By: >>28628777 >>28628815 >>28629192

>>28628353
I don't play on Showdown. I don't even play Smogon rules. I'm just flat-out baffled by Smogon's aversion to "luck-based mechanics" when so many other games use them and the playerbases have no issue with it. The very origins of RPGs (which is what Pokemon is, an RPG) originate in games that rely on rolling dice for ODDS of taking an action. Many RPGs still continue to rely on chance in part of their mechanics, and players in turn work the mechanics in their favor to increase those odds or other wise find another solution.

But no, not Smogon, they just ban it despite the existence of many different guaranteed-hit moves, and say it would create a "toxic meta".

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:27:38 No.28628757 Report

Quoted By: >>28628836

>>28628331
Wannabe MTG pro here, honestly surprised they're allowed to give out cash prizes for VGC. Would have thought it would be ruled illegal via underage gambling laws. (I know most western EU countries aren't allowed to have pro level MTG events for that specific reason, and YGO worlds only pays in product and cheap merch.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:29:41 No.28628777 Report

Quoted By:

>>28628451
There's a spectrum. Some luck is fine, but every aspect of a game shouldn't be ruled by coin flip. On one side you have MTG that does randomness well, on the other hand you have heartstone where player input effectively doesn't matter.
It's a spectrum and too little luck is boring, but too much luck is awful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:30:22 No.28628787 Report

Quoted By: >>28629038

>>28628331
First of all, that card is hot garbage.

Secondly:
>generic counters
>not leech seed counters or some shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:32:10 No.28628815 Report

Quoted By: >>28628836 >>28628981 >>28629026

>>28628451
If you dont play with smogon rules then why the fuck you complain? Is there someone pointing a gun at you forcing you to play by their rules?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:33:52 No.28628836 Report

Quoted By: >>28628940 >>28629024

>>28628757
I think underages get scholarship prizes or something.

>>28628815
Do I need a reason to be mad at something obviously stupid?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:34:57 No.28628854 Report

Quoted By: >>28628905 >>28628906

You people would probably also think that smash tournaments should be played with items on temple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:38:16 No.28628905 Report

Quoted By: >>28628955

>>28628854
>playing smash "professionally"
It's a party game anon, quit trying to be that one faggot who has to make every game serious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:38:18 No.28628906 Report

Quoted By: >>28628955

>>28628854
>Playing mindless party fighters competitively
Just go play mario party competitively, you baby.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:40:27 No.28628940 Report

Quoted By: >>28629007

>>28628836
Your life will improve once you start ignoring the smogon dudes. There is no reasoning with them and you can pretty much leave them to their circlejerk on their own site and threads.

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO YhtyMRw.jpg, 411KiB, 1500x1500

B) Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:41:20 No.28628955 Report

Quoted By: >>28628990 >>28629007

>>28628906
>>28628905
>plays POKÈMON competitively
>makes fun of smash players

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:43:12 No.28628981 Report

Quoted By:

>>28628815
not that anon, just for the record most of us don't complain about smogon we mock them

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:43:47 No.28628990 Report

Quoted By: >>28629078

>>28628955
>People are bashing competitive pokemon in the thread
>Assumes people in the thread play competitive pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:43:55 No.28628992 Report

Quoted By: >>28629049

What kind of ruleset DOES VGC use? I've always been a little curious, especially since last time it looked like Anything Goes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:45:14 No.28629007 Report

Quoted By: >>28629052 >>28629078

>>28628940
I usually do, or mock them. I wanted to get it out of my system for once.

>>28628955
Pokemon isn't the game being laughed at by fans of other games in its genre, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:46:25 No.28629024 Report

Quoted By:

>>28628836
Of course you need a reason to complain about something or you see people getting mad when rains and they get wet?
Look it's simple. Kill yourself or stop caring about how other people play a fucking game.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:46:36 No.28629026 Report

Quoted By:

>>28628815
>Is there someone pointing a gun at you forcing you to play by their rules?
Yes! Why has no one helped me yet!?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ambiguity.jpg, 66KiB, 312x445

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:47:20 No.28629038 Report

Quoted By: >>28629116

>>28628787
I can see the theming they were trying to have, but I think it fails in a few points.

The ability emulating leach seed should probably have you gain life as well. If it's supposed to be a beater it might need trample (because green) if it's mean to be a wall it should embrace that on it's p/t.

I would argue for this theming-wise but I'm not sure how balanced it would be.

GGB2
Creature - Beast
At the beginning of your upkeep target opponent loses 3 life. If they do, you gain 3 life.
Reach.
3/7

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:48:20 No.28629049 Report

Quoted By: >>28629122

>>28628992
It is actually. Except Phione is banned, that shit is too much for the format.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:48:41 No.28629052 Report

Quoted By:

>>28629007
Yes it is, don't lie to yourself like that.

That's why you shouldn't give a shit and just play what you enjoy instead of listening to other people shittalk what they don't know

B) Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:50:27 No.28629078 Report

Quoted By: >>28629103

>>28629007
Actually it is, no other turn based strategy game is more RNG and luck based then pokèmon, and it is laughed at by both the cgc AND the vgc

>>28628990
I'm just saying, if you follow any metagame of a video game or card game based on RNG/luck you're worse then the players who plays a game where luck is minimized

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:52:15 No.28629103 Report

Quoted By: >>28629133

>>28629078
>Puts on a smiley to shitpost
Is that you, mr. animals are not real? Fuck off and shitpost in some other boards, we need a break.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:53:23 No.28629116 Report

Quoted By:

>>28629038
Also why tf is it a legendary creature

What about
3GG
Creature - Beast
{T}: Put a Leech Seed counter on Venusaur.
At the beginning of your upkeep, each opponent loses 1 life for each Leech Seed counter on Venusaur. You gain life equal to the amount of life lost this way.
4/6

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:54:01 No.28629122 Report

Quoted By:

>>28629049
How does it work out then? Does accuracy stuff get used more often?

The way I figure, never miss moves or haze/clear smog gets more use.

B) Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:54:24 No.28629133 Report

Quoted By:

>>28629103
B(

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 05:59:06 No.28629192 Report

Quoted By: >>28629332 >>28629472

>>28628451
Double Team and Swagger take literally no skill or prediction whatsoever. On top of this, when the metagame allows for such mechanics, you frequently end up with a lot of battles where both teams utilize such mechanics, and we get fights that drag out a long time. Especially with Double Team. Do you really want a meta where every battle is decided by which evasion user is hit first?

You can say there are specific moves to counter these strategies, but then it becomes a matter of using these otherwise terrible moves in order to have even a chance at victory. There's not a single game in existence where "if you do not have x on your team/in your deck/whatever, you lose" is a good thing. Sometimes unbalanced shit is introduced into a game. Sometimes removing unbalanced shit makes other shit unbalanced. Ultimately, a metagame is a constant work in progress. It always will be.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Venusaur.png, 330KiB, 375x523

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 06:04:20 No.28629267 Report

Quoted By: >>28630401

>>28628331
I made a new version of the card to accurately reflect Pokémon's playstyle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 06:05:53 No.28629287 Report

Quoted By:

>but then it becomes a matter of using these otherwise terrible moves in order to have even a chance at victory
>Mach Punch
>Bullet Punch
>Ice Shard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 06:09:25 No.28629332 Report

Quoted By: >>28629572

>>28629192
>but then it becomes a matter of using these otherwise terrible moves in order to have even a chance at victory
>Mach Punch
>Bullet Punch
>Ice Shard

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 06:19:04 No.28629472 Report

Quoted By:

>>28628331
Making a second post responding to OP because it wouldn't fit in >>28629192

You know why VGC doesn't get as big as MtG? Well, aside from the fact that MtG has been around much longer and the competitive scene in Pokemon didn't explode until a good few years ago.

VGC format is shit. Yes, it's more balanced than singles without restrictions. It's even more balanced than singles with the same restrictions. But it's still unbalanced as all hell, and the restrictions in place are fucking dumb.

>Jirachi, Celebi, Manaphy, anything not obtaining through regular gameplay is banned despite not having any significant edges over those who don't have them
>Genies are okay, weather setters are fine, megamom is a-okay

On top of that, the vast majority of Pokemon players are accustomed to 6v6 singles. If you wanna even start into VGC, you have to relearn the entire metagame as well as learn how to build a team that won't be gimped when you have to leave two of them behind in an actual battle.

Sure, 4v4 doubles is faster than 6v6 singles. But it also effectively removes certain playstyles from the game, especially set-up and stall. They're not impossible, of course, but damn near it since you will always have to deal with the possibility that your foes will gang up on whichever Pokemon you intend to utilize these strategies with. It's just not viable.

VGC can be very off-putting to most players. On top of that, it just doesn't have the same presence as MtG. You get a few regionals, some nationals, and a worlds each year. All of which require a bit of travel for most wishing to participate. It's true there's a local format, but it seems most shops hosting tournaments would rather focus on the TCG than VGC.

TL;DR VGC isn't anywhere near as accessible as 6v6 singles, let alone MtG. Gamefreak needs to pick one format for both the basic game and competitive play.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 06:25:46 No.28629542 Report

Quoted By:

>>28628331
>undefined counters
>poor text formatting does not indicate where the cost of the ability ends and the ability begins
>green doing direct life loss to a player.
>5/5 for 5 with three mana symbols
>Legendary
People who don't play Magic shouldn't make Magic cards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 06:27:48 No.28629572 Report

Quoted By:

>>28629332
Priority moves are actually good, aside from Quick Attack.

They're great for picking off weak, but faster foes, or for one last "fuck you" when you know you have to sacrifice a Pokemon.

The difference between priority and guaranteed hit moves are that priority moves are good on their own. On top of that, as good as they are, you don't need them to have a fair shot at winning. You can build an entire team without a single priority move and have a good shot at winning, assuming you build your team well and play well to boot.

If you're losing to smogonbird, maybe you need to rethink your strategy. I've literally never had an issue with it, myself. But then, I abuse sneaky pebbles and run smogon washing machine. Take that as you will.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 08:02:28 No.28630368 Report

Quoted By:

>getting angry because somebody plays a video game in a way you don't personally approve of

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 08:07:26 No.28630401 Report

Quoted By: >>28630577

>>28629267
>scry 1
>guarantee safe move

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Sep 2016 08:28:56 No.28630577 Report

Quoted By:

>>28630401
>mind reader
>sheer cold

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