/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #28654112

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/plg/ - Pokemon Lore General

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:26:05 No.28654112 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>28654414 >>28654963 >>28655743

Thread No. 15: Please read the OP Edition
Previous thread: >>28634024

>Post theories, predictions, ideas, and trivia about Pokémon Lore.
>No flaming, only discussion.
>Do NOT reply to Richard.
>DO NOT REPLY TO RICHARD.
>No arguing about timelines/dimensions, or posting fan-made Guides (including fan maps).
>Stick to the Pokémon-related lore.
>Try to have fun.

Feel free to repost anything valuable from the previous threads. The more information, the better.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Mysteries.jpg, 75KiB, 467x639

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:44:10 No.28654414 Report

Quoted By:

>>28654112

Him or Slowking will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:46:28 No.28654447 Report

Quoted By: >>28654474

Reposting interesting facts and ideas regarding Arceus and the Unown:
>>28636991
>>28637059

>All lives
>touch other
>lives to create
>something
>anew and alive
The Solaceon Ruins after catching all Unown

>Our friends look
>up and heartily
>congratulate us
The Unown Report after catching all Unown

>A strange sound is coming from UNOWN...
>UNOWN started spinning around in circles.
>UNOWN is growling in a way that sounds almost like speech...
>Your Pokémon isn’t moving.
>Your Pokémon seems to be singing something?
Unown when brought to the Ruins of Alph

>ARCEUS looked up at the sky and shouted loudly!
>DIALGA gathered itself up and let out a huge roar!
>PALKIA’s body shook with a great roar!
Arceus, Palkia and Dialga when brought to the Sinjoh Ruins

>But that was not it. A long time ago... people came from Sinnoh to live here.
>They must have built a temple here while longing for home. That's why we call these theSinjoh Ruins...
>According to an ancient document, time, space, and antimatter, or what combined we call the world, shall be born whenArceusstands on theMystri Stage.
>This is where one might say, "The lead enters theMystri Stageat last." All my study of ruins and Pokémon mythology in Sinnoh may have been to bring you up on this stage here today...
>Depicted on theMystri Stageare the Pokémon that shaped this world. The circle in the middle isArceus, the origin of it all...
Cynthia at the Sinjoh-Ruins

>The three living things wished, and
>from them, spirit came to be.
>The world created, the Original One
>took to unyielding sleep...
Canalave Library

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:48:00 No.28654474 Report

Quoted By:

>>28654447
>>28636991
>>28637059

>May I say one last bit? A long time ago, I wonder what sort of person painted this?
>Dialga's Roar of Time...Palkia's Spacial Rend...
>To the people back then, those Pokémon really must have appeared to rule over time and space.
>Seeing them must have shaken the people to their very core.
>This painting represents those feelings of awe, wonder, and everything else.
>It passed that memory to countless people, eventually becoming a myth...
Cynthia in the ruins of Solaceon Town

>The Original One breathed alone before the universe came.
>When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate.
>The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate.
The Hiker on one of the plates

Arceus is only ever mentioned by three NPCs: Cynthia, the Hiker and the Scientist at the Ruins of Alph.
The people who used to live together with the Unown are all dead.
Sinjoh is between Sinnoh and Jotho. It‘s exact location is unknown.
Sinjoh is a place where people from both Sinnoh and Jotho gathered to worship Arceus.

Things we don't know for sure:
Arceus is long forgotten, but Dialga and Palkia are still worshipped in the Sinnoh region and mentioned a few times by NPCs.
Arceus must have at least once created Dialga, Palkia or Giratina whith humans watching it.
We don‘t know if Arceus is native to Sinnoh.

Possible interpretations:
It might have left Sinjoh for the Spear Pillar for reasons unknown.
The Mystri stage might be the key to Arceus‘s full power and might the place where it hatched from an egg.
It „sleeping“ is potentially a metaphor for being in a state where it doesn‘t have access to all of it‘s power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:51:46 No.28654557 Report

Quoted By: >>28654601 >>28654628 >>28654642 >>28655640

Are any legendary or mythical pokemon unique, or can we safely assume that there exists several, even for deities like Arceus and Ho-Oh?

In the games at least, there doesn't seem to be any indication that there exists a unique pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:54:25 No.28654601 Report

Quoted By: >>28654656

>>28654557
Arceus is unique. The rest of the Mythical Pokémon are not, as far as I am aware.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:55:35 No.28654628 Report

Quoted By: >>28654667 >>28654831 >>28654973

>>28654557
I would say box legendaries might be unique. Also Arceus and Rayquaza. Then again, if SM is implying Zygarde ISNT unique, then maybe some box legends arent.

I'd say mythicals besides Arceus arent unique.

The only thing special about them are being strong and rare

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:56:23 No.28654642 Report

Quoted By: >>28654760

>>28654557
As far as we´ve been shown the Battle Frontier members have legendaries, but they are for the most part the latis and parts of trios.

Out of the more important ones, like Ho-oh or Arceus, we´ve only seen one(aside from the fact it´s possible to have more than one gameplay wise). The rings in ORAS may prove this wrong but they havent been explained.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:56:46 No.28654648 Report

Quoted By:

daily reminder that it was common to take a pokemon as your spouse in years past

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:57:14 No.28654656 Report

Quoted By:

>>28654601
>Arceus is unique
Is there any confirmation of that anywhere, though?
It always seemed to me that there existed several Arceus as well. The way the Sinjoh scientist talks about it doesn't really point towards it being unique although that's my personal interpretation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:57:25 No.28654667 Report

Quoted By: >>28654739 >>28654831

>>28654628
>if SM is implying Zygarde ISNT unique
We have yet to play it, but it seems Zygarde is unique, it´s just divided in many parts that you have to collect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 12:59:51 No.28654739 Report

Quoted By: >>28654836

>>28654667
Not the cores thing. is SM Zygarde XY Zygarde?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:00:35 No.28654760 Report

Quoted By: >>28654836 >>28655212

>>28654642
>The rings in ORAS may prove this wrong
No, those are explicitly rings to another dimension. It's why those Pokémon can be shiny.

See, canonically, Reshiram/Zekrom are shiny locked. But in OR/AS they can be Shiny because Hoopa is pulling them from a universe where their Shiny form is the Canon one. Does that make sense?

Still means 1 per dimension.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:04:01 No.28654831 Report

Quoted By: >>28655640

>>28654628
We can pretty much assume that Lugia and Ho-Oh aren't unique.
The weather trio probably is, but nothing seems to indicate they are.
Dialga, Palkia and Giratina definitely aren't.
The Tao trio seems unique because they're shiny locked (?) but at the same time, why would they be? They don't represent anything important lorewise.
Same thing for Xerneas and Yveltal, why would they be unique?
>>28654667
Zygarde is a protector of the ecosystem, but it's mentioned in X and Y to protect Kalos. Can we assume that there exist several Zygarde, that are each "assigned" to the ecosystem of various regions?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:04:23 No.28654836 Report

Quoted By: >>28655269 >>28656190

>>28654739
We don´t know yet, but getting Zygarde is not part of XY´s story, so it could be like Gen 1 legendaries in HGSS.

>>28654760
>those are explicitly rings to another dimension
stated where?

>Does that make sense?
...no, not really, shininess is more of a gameplay thing except in Gyarados´s case and few others.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:09:59 No.28654963 Report

Quoted By:

>>28654112
Welp, chinese leaks are most definitely real.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:10:16 No.28654973 Report

Quoted By:

>>28654628
>if SM is implying Zygarde ISNT unique
In the contrary it's implying that every Zygarde is part of a singular entity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:16:03 No.28655212 Report

Quoted By: >>28655269

>>28654760

Hoopa just move one object to different location.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:17:23 No.28655269 Report

Quoted By: >>28655355 >>28655493 >>28655581 >>28656190

>>28654836
>..no, not really, shininess is more of a gameplay thing except in Gyarados´s case and few others.
Exactly. The absence of Shiny Reshiram/Zekrom is important here. The Shiny forms can only be from alternate dimensions. If the ones from B/W weren't Shiny locked, it wouldn't be a big deal, but them being explicitly non-shiny in the canon B/W is the significance.

Anyways, I am pretty sure Hoopa's dex entries or NPC dialogue explains that his rings go to other dimensions. It's true for the anime too. In his movie, he pulls Legends through portals from other worlds, including a black Rayquaza, solidifying the idea about some Legends being canonically Shiny in other dimensions.

>>28655212
Don't start, Richard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:19:08 No.28655355 Report

Quoted By: >>28655567 >>28656190

>>28655269
>Exactly.
You´re disagreeing with your own point there.

> I am pretty sure Hoopa's dex entries or NPC dialogue explains that his rings go to other dimensions.
What NPC?

> It's true for the anime too. In his movie, he pulls Legends through portals from other worlds, including a black Rayquaza, solidifying the idea about some Legends being canonically Shiny in other dimensions.
>using ashnime shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:21:57 No.28655493 Report

Quoted By: >>28655567 >>28656190

>>28655269
But are his rings actual portals to another dimension then o do they just link the trainer to a legendary through those rings?p

One of Hoopas dex entries also mentions a hidden place where he stores all the things he takes with him. Does he have his own dimension then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:23:30 No.28655567 Report

Quoted By: >>28655753

>>28655355
>You´re disagreeing with your own point there.
No, you're just misunderstanding mine.

>What NPC?
The one that gives backstory on Hoopa.

>using ashnime shit
I know the anime itself isn't canon, but it's an adaptation of the content of the games, and relevant to the discussion.

>>28655493
>One of Hoopas dex entries also mentions a hidden place where he stores all the things he takes with him.
>Does he have his own dimension then?
That's what I gathered from that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:23:41 No.28655581 Report

Quoted By: >>28656190

>>28655269
Hoopa´s dex entries never talk about other dimensions. Just space. Who´s this NPC?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:24:54 No.28655640 Report

Quoted By: >>28655698 >>28656150

>>28654557
>>28654831
>Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres
Not unique, pretty common for legendary standards actually. Frontier Brains use them, and they just don't seem like a big deal overall.
>Mew
Not unique, there are several in South America. Still extremely rare.
>Mewtwo
Not unique, several were created.
>Entei, Raikou, Suicune
Not unique, they seem to be about as rare as the birds, which is to say, not very rare. Frontier Brains use them.
>Lugia
Not unique, iirc it was hinted that several of them lived in the sea.
>Ho-Oh
Shouldn't be unique, since the Johto beasts aren't. Probably very rare, though.
>Celebi
Not unique in the movie, probably not in-game either. Nothing points towards it being particularly important.
>Regice, Regirock, Registeel
Definitely not unique, for the same reasons as why the Kanto and Johto trios aren't. Low tier legendaries.
>Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza
Probably unique. No confirmation in-game though.
>Latios, Latias
Not unique, probably not much rarer than the Kanto birds.
>Deoxys
Not unique, has been established both in the anime and in-game
>Jirachi
Stated to be extremely rare and found in mountains, therefore not unique.

continued

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:25:56 No.28655698 Report

Quoted By: >>28655823 >>28665566

>>28655640
continued

>Cresselia, Darkrai
Not unique, has been confirmed. Very rare
>Heatran
kek
>Azelf, Mesprit, Uxie
On one hand, they're part of a non-box legend trio, and those have never been unique. On the other hand, they have a pretty big role in Sinnoh's cosmogony. Not sure about these guys.
>Regigigas
Not unique, Palmer has one. Probably much rarer than the other golems.
>Dialga, Palkia, Giratina
They seem to be unique until one of them gets captured by a ten year old, which then prompts Arceus to create another one. I don't know.
>Shaymin
Not unique at all, probably the most common of the pixiemons alongside Victini.
>Arceus
If other trios such as the weather and Unova trios are unique then Arceus likely is as well. There's that one thousand hands theory though
>Unova trios
Neither are unique. Used by Frontier Brains.
>Victini
Not unique, confirmed by its pokedex entry.
>Genesect
Not unique, several were created. There probably aren't more than a dozen or so in the wild though, I doubt Team Plasma mass produced them.
>Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem
Everything points towards them being unique. I'd say they are but it was never confirmed.
>Meloetta
Who cares
>Diancie
Not unique, just a very rare Carbink
>Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde
I'd say they aren't. They're unique in Kalos, but nothing indicates they don't exist in other regions.
>Hoopa
Not unique, probably as rare as Celebi or Mew.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:27:13 No.28655743 Report

Quoted By:

>>28654112
>Hating rodolfo
ebin

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:27:36 No.28655753 Report

Quoted By: >>28656190

>>28655567
>No, you're just misunderstanding mine.
I said shininess is a gameplay mechanic that we shouldnt apply to the lore except when explicitly done in the games. Then you said exactly while saying that it should be applied to the lore.

>The one that gives backstory on Hoopa.
Who? Post the quote.

>but it's an adaptation of the content of the games
Didn´t know Red lost in Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos leagues and is going to school in Alola.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:29:28 No.28655823 Report

Quoted By: >>28656093

>>28655698
Dialga, Palkia and Giratina can't be unique because according to old scripture Cynthia mentions they were created by Arceus at least once on the Mystri Stage with humans watching it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:35:01 No.28656093 Report

Quoted By: >>28656224

>>28655823
It wouldn't make sense for Arceus to create several of them on a whim. He probably does it only when they fall under the ownership of a trainer

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:36:14 No.28656150 Report

Quoted By: >>28656242

>>28655640
Celebi leaves an egg when it time travels so it probably is not unique

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:36:59 No.28656190 Report

Quoted By: >>28656320

>>28655753
>>28655581
>>28655493
>>28655355
>>28655269
>>28654836
Hoopa being able to grab Giratina is proof enough it can pull Pokémon from other dimensions BTW, as if Parfume Palace wasn't enough proof.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:38:05 No.28656224 Report

Quoted By: >>28656284

>>28656093
That would mean that ancient people would capture the very gods whose power they feared so much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:38:25 No.28656242 Report

Quoted By: >>28657052

>>28656150
Unless it's just birthing itself each time because you know, time travel.
That said, was it stated to be a Celebi egg?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:39:16 No.28656284 Report

Quoted By: >>28656465

>>28656224
Hey, you never know. Maybe another young protagonist once managed to befriend them, long ago

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:40:18 No.28656320 Report

Quoted By:

>>28656190
Giratina can exist outside Distortion world and what the fuck does Parfum Palace have to do with this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:43:49 No.28656465 Report

Quoted By: >>28656583

>>28656284
But they don't just lose their power because they befriend with a human and travel with them. I assume they outlive their own trainers forr basically all eternity.
Which is actually pretty said. Imagine Giratina losing the only (human) friend it possibly had.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:46:45 No.28656583 Report

Quoted By: >>28657052

>>28656465
>Imagine Giratina losing the only (human) friend it possibly had

>tfw it had been waiting for thousands of years in the distorsion world alone, hoping that one day another human would come to befriend it
Lucas is a true hero

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 13:59:03 No.28657052 Report

Quoted By:

>>28656583
*Lucas or Dawn

I think if GF had to reference DPPT in a way or have the protag as a cameo that they would choose Dawn over Lucas as the hero of Sinnoh.

>>28656242
Yeah, it just said "egg". Leaving its own egg seems likely though. Maybe it reproduces with the other Celebi that was created through time travel?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 14:06:33 No.28657325 Report

Quoted By: >>28657469

I've never bothered to read Hoopa´s entries but everyone seems sure it can bring shit from other dimensions instead of just space.
What actual, valid, non-headcanon proof we have on it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 14:10:15 No.28657469 Report

Quoted By: >>28657532

>>28657325
It might be hard labour for you but maybe you should just read the dex entries?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 14:12:53 No.28657532 Report

Quoted By: >>28657932 >>28658001

>>28657469
>It gathers things it likes and pushes them through its loop to teleport them to a secret place.
>This troublemaker sends anything and everything to faraway places using its loop, which can warp space
>In its true form, it possess a huge amount of power. Legends of its avarice tell how it once carried off an entire castle to gain the treasure hidden within.
>It is said to be able to seize anything it desires with its six rings and six huge arms. With its power sealed, it is transformed into a much smaller form.
Not only it never mentions other dimensions but it specifically stated it can warp space.
But I guess I overestimated the pokemon fanbase´s reading comprehension again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 14:25:18 No.28657932 Report

Quoted By: >>28658103

>>28657532
>Hoopa Unbound is said to have the power to bend dimensions which allows it to seize anything in the world.
Apologize.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 14:27:40 No.28658001 Report

Quoted By: >>28658103

>>28657532
>Hyperspace Fury (Japanese: いじげんラッシュ Dimensional Rush)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 14:31:20 No.28658103 Report

Quoted By: >>28658411

>>28657932
>ask for proof
>anon, proof is in the dex entries
>its not there
>posts proof that´s not in the entries
Apologize for what? You should have stated that before.

>>28657932
>>28658001
Not to mention that space is a dimension and it says that it can seize anything in the world, never stating that it can be from other worlds.
Unless by dimension it means alt universe, but you have to prove that part.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 14:41:31 No.28658411 Report

Quoted By: >>28658552

>>28658103
>Hyperspace Hole (Japanese: いじげんホール Dimensional Hole)
>France: TrouDimensionnel
>Germany: Dimensionsloch
>Italy: Forodimensionale
>Korean: 다른차원홀 Dareunchawon Hole
>Spain: Paso Dimensional

Hoopa's powers are described as inter-dimensional in every translation of the game, except English.

Every. Single. One.

Probably, like the Philosophers Stone, was changed because they thought American kids were too stupid to understand big words.

>space is a dimension
>Unless by dimension it means alt universe, but you have to prove that part.
If you are seriously, unironically going to claim this is just referring to space, and not another Dimension, then I am going to just stop replying. You can't be that dense, surely. Yes, cleverclogs, space is a dimension, but in the context of this fucking Pokémon move, it should be very clear that it is referring to other dimensions. Especially when the very same Post-Game with these portals, is the one that refers to parallel dimensions as a sub-plot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 14:46:51 No.28658552 Report

Quoted By: >>28659070

>>28658411
>Hoopa's powers are described as inter-dimensional in every translation of the game, except English.
So? read the rest of my post.

>If you are seriously, unironically going to claim this is just referring to space, and not another Dimension, then I am going to just stop replying.
>This troublemaker sends anything and everything to faraway places using its loop, which can warp space
It says so on the dex entry and implied on any other descriptions of its abilities. It specifically mentions space. So it´s, at the very least, refering to space. This you can´t argue.

>Especially when the very same Post-Game with these portals, is the one that refers to parallel dimensions as a sub-plot.
You mean the post-game quest that´s about Rayquaza and Deoxys who arent Hoopa.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:05:39 No.28659070 Report

Quoted By: >>28659183

>>28658552
>You mean the post-game quest that´s about Rayquaza and Deoxys who arent Hoopa
It however confirms the very existence of parallel dimensions

So, if Hoopa just "steals" all those islands, caves, mountains from other places in the same dimension - why don't we get any news on it?
"Islands in the Sinnoh region magically disappearing and reappearing one day afterwards."

Hey, in the german vesion of the dex it is never specified that it takes everything it wants in the "world". It just takes everything it wants. That's it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:07:20 No.28659112 Report

Quoted By: >>28659129

I got a spare shiny Xerneas and Yvetel. Any eurofag with a spare Darkrai?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:08:21 No.28659129 Report

Quoted By: >>28659166

>>28659112
Wrong thread, my bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:09:46 No.28659166 Report

Quoted By:

>>28659129
It's alright, happened to me a few times too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:10:20 No.28659183 Report

Quoted By: >>28659358

>>28659070
>It however confirms the very existence of parallel dimensions
Yes. It´s the relation with Hoopa that has to be proven.

>So, if Hoopa just "steals" all those islands, caves, mountains from other places in the same dimension - why don't we get any news on it?
"Islands in the Sinnoh region magically disappearing and reappearing one day afterwards."
Oh, sure that means they are in another dimension. I mean, I dont get news on everything happening on Earth right now, so I guess IRL other worlds are confirmed.

>It just takes everything it wants. That's it.
That doesnt really help your case.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:16:41 No.28659358 Report

Quoted By: >>28659676

>>28659183
>That doesnt really help your case
You said specifically everything in the world. The world is never mentioned in the german entry. It doesn't help your case.

Hoopa "warping space" is very obvious but the very idea of different dimensions was completely alien to other people in ORAS apart from Zinnia.

>Oh, sure that means they are in another dimension.
> I mean, I dont get news on everything happening on Earth right now, so I guess IRL other worlds are confirmed.

Yeah, huge land masses just randomly disappearing is comparable to some guy being robbed in China.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:30:20 No.28659676 Report

Quoted By:

>>28659358
>You said specifically everything in the world.
And?

>The world is never mentioned in the german entry.
Neither are other worlds, which is what you need to prove. Not to mention that its the german translation only, and the burden of proof is on you since the other entries say the world.

>It doesn't help your case.
All entries but one translation that´s not even the japanese one mention something supporting my point, one doesnt, but doesnt support your point either. Do you realize how retarded you sound?

>Hoopa "warping space" is very obvious but the very idea of different dimensions was completely alien to other people in ORAS apart from Zinnia.
Yes....and? I already said it warps space.
Zinnia being the only one knowing about other dimensions, from a source unrelated to Hoopa(unless you can provide it) doesnt prove Hoopa can go to other worlds.

>Yeah, huge land masses just randomly disappearing is comparable to some guy being robbed in China.
Your argument here hinges on every single event being mentioned, which in turn implies every single game happens in different dimensions since you dont get mentions to every big event in all games(say, you dont get a mention of all the shit that went down in Sinnoh in gen 5 and so on). That only proves that the games are a modelization of the in-universe world(obviously), so if you dont really need access to all in-universe news, you wont get them. That´s like the argument that mega evolutions dont exist in the same world as non-gen 6 games just because every single character isn't talking about them.
Even if we completely ignore that, this point contradicts your whole argument. Why would a huge mass of land being warped from one place to another be news-worthy and not it completely dissapearing(which is what would happen if it was moved to another dimension AKA your whole point)?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:33:54 No.28659757 Report

Quoted By: >>28659811 >>28659908

Reposting the links between the alchemical triangle, Solgaleo, Lunala, Zygarde, and the Zygarde Cube, with said triangle being in >>28569827 's Pic related because of duplication, sorry for inconvenience:

From >>28346446
>Anima is the sun
>Spiritus is the moon
>Corpus just has a cube to represent it, and the "arrow" that contains the symbol is pointing down
So is the Corpus legendary Earth or something?

From >>28346536

>>28346446
Literally Zygarde

Azoth = 5 planets (5 mons) + Sun/soul + Moon/spirit + physical hermaphrodite body (perfect Z, which have red (Yveltal, Y chromosome) and blue (Xerneas, X chromosome) wings)

Azoth = Solgaleo + Lunala + Zygarde + Xerneas + Yveltal

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO secret.png, 480KiB, 1024x1536

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:35:26 No.28659795 Report

Quoted By:

reposting azoth alchemy notes:

Azoth is the single force -- the "spiritus animatis," as Wikipedia puts it -- of humanity that drives it to attain physical and spiritual perfection. Not only this, the Azoth seems to also have a physical incarnation as the "Elixir of Life" or "The Universal Solvent," and was known as the cure for any mental, spiritual, or physical ailment. Essentially, it's liquid perfection.

Another thing of note is that Azoth's name was constructed from the first and last letters of the Latin, Greek, and Hebrew alphabets, in that order: A/Alpha/Aleph, Z, Omega, and Tau, which ties in to the "Beginning and End" motif present in AZ, and Alpha and Omega.

Additionally, Azoth is another, less used name for the chemical Mercury, which is a part of a very significant trio in alchemy, with the other members being salt and sulfur. The chemical symbols of all three can be seen within the starter Pokemon, as shown in pic related.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:36:31 No.28659811 Report

Quoted By: >>28659908

>>28659757
>5 planet = 5 pokemon

>You should update this

>reposting about Aether and UB
>Aether = space
>Gladion looks like Expansion, Mars' UB
>Lusamine looks like Beauty, Venus' UB
>>28499494
>>28499801

Also "Gladion" is named after "gladiolus", of latin "gladius", a roman sword

>Aether fundation = "space fundation"
>Lusamine = Venus = UB02 Beauty
>Faba = Saturn/Jupiter = UB0X ???
>Wacka = Jupiter/Saturn =UB0X ???
>Lillie = Mercury = UB01 ???
>Gladion = Mars = UB02 Expasion

Ultrabeast are confirmed to be hyperspatial pokemon from other dimension >>28494185

BUT Sinnoh lore states that humans ARE pokemon. Maybe in that dimension, some pokemon don't go through a darwinian evolution to humans... but evolve to ultrabeast? Expasion is the Gladion's counterpart, Beauty is the Lusamine's, etc

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:37:43 No.28659835 Report

Quoted By: >>28659876

reposting >>28560913
>>28553385
If we take Zygarde as being one of the oldest beings on the planet and serves only to protect the planet, then only Cyrus would actually make sense for him to intervene.

The planet is a fucking tough bitch to kill off. You get extinction catastrophes, you get enormous climate changing events, but in the end the planet will remain, and life will eventually find a way to rebuild a brand new ecosystem.

Groudon/Kyogre wouldn't destroy the world, just force the living species to adapt to a new desert/ocean world. Zygarde has no reason to interfere, since life will just continue in a different way.

N and Ghetsis were in no way a threat to the planet or the environment, and neither was Lysandre in the long run.

The meteor is nothing the planet hasn't experienced before (assuming the Pokemon world went through a similar extinction event to get rid of what would became the fossil Pokemon), and hasn't bounced back already.

It's possible that Zygarde, after seeing its planet bounce up and down from all sorts of shit, has decided "why should I care if some human wants to kill 50% of life on the planet/if humans are polluting shit/if another legendary is going crazy, if everything will reset in a few million years anyway?"

Though, again, no excuse for not stepping in against Cyrus, except for the fact Zygarde likely didn't exist inside a crazy Japanese man's head at the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:39:06 No.28659876 Report

Quoted By:

>>28659835
reposting more

>>28560981
This.
Shit.

Also, Zygarde it had no way of knowing about Cyrus's purpose
He's just a guy who appears, summon Dialga/Palkia and... is defeated 15 minutes later

>>28561153
>Zygarde had no way of knowing about Cyrus's purpose
That can be argued, but is heavily reliant on exactly HOW Zygarde can tell if the ecosystem is under threat.

Is it only in tune with stuff like plants and the soil, and can only notice a threat if those are things being threatened? Then no, Cyrus would fly right under his radar since Team Galactic did nothing to affect the environment in any way.

However, if Zygarde is in some way empathic, then Cyrus's experiments on the Lake Trio should have raised a red flag or two on the big guy. GIven that the Lake Trio were literally responsible for freewill, their agony should have been "louder", so to speak, and more noteworthy than the Pokemon used to power Lysandre's death flower.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:40:32 No.28659908 Report

Quoted By:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archeus
>>28637247
Could be. That would fit in with Alchemy and mysticism symbology. The idea being that "God", a being on a higher dimensional plane, would be, for lack of a better term, too big to fit entirely into a lower dimension. So the original spirit (what God is called in mysticism) comes into a lower plane via egg through a vortex, and creates the universe. People cannot distinguish between Arceus and the original spirit and, from a certain point of view, they are the same being.

>>28637685
>Plato and Aristotle taught that the stars were composed of a type of matter different from the four earthly elements - a fifth, ethereal element or quintessence. In the "astral mysticism" of the classical world the human psyche was composed of the same material, thus accounting for the influence of the stars upon human affairs. In his commentaries on Plato's Timaeus, Proclus wrote;

>Man is a little world (mikros cosmos). For, just like the Whole, he possesses both mind and reason, both a divine and a mortal body. He is also divided up according to the universe. It is for this reason, you know, that some are accustomed to say that his consciousness corresponds with the nature of the fixed stars, his reason in its contemplative aspect with Saturn and in its social aspect with Jupiter, (and) as to his irrational part, the passionate nature with Mars, the eloquent with Mercury, the appetitive with Venus, the sensitive with the Sun and the vegetative with the Moon.

Mercury + Venus + Mars + Jupiter + Saturn + Sun + Moon = universe

>>28659757
>>28659811
universe + man + woman = Azoth = God essence

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 15:41:35 No.28659937 Report

Quoted By:

repost needed
>>28568940
>>28569827
>>28569921
>>28569028

bump guy

bump guy Tue 20 Sep 2016 16:10:49 No.28660654 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 16:15:50 No.28660775 Report

Quoted By:

Let's talk about Arceus being alone when it created the world and there being no possibilty that it could have created the universe using them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 16:18:49 No.28660857 Report

Quoted By:

Let's not forget that it is currently sleeping. There is no discussion there. The text in the library that is already rather vague and is most likely symbolic and written in a way real life religious texts are.
Don't forget that!

Also: Pokemon aren't animals. Pokemon is for the meaning Pocket Monsters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 16:38:15 No.28661341 Report

Quoted By: >>28662604 >>28662787

Is the arceus event in the sinjoh ruins canon? If so that means he's with the johto protag right.

bump guy

bump guy Tue 20 Sep 2016 17:10:15 No.28662238 Report

Quoted By:

bumping

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 17:24:48 No.28662604 Report

Quoted By:

>>28661341

It can't be canon. No one has ever capture Mewtwo and Arceus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 17:25:21 No.28662614 Report

Quoted By: >>28662787

i know this is kind of silly but..
what kind of pokemon where the dog trio were before dying in the burned tower?
did 3 rattatas died and then ho oh decided to revive them? of course its impossible to know now, but lets try to guess based on their actual form...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 17:32:47 No.28662787 Report

Quoted By:

>>28661341
>Is the arceus event in the sinjoh ruins canon?
At least the lore surrounding it is.
As for whether it actually happened, it´s not refernenced outside it, so we can´t know for sure.

>>28662614
Most common theory are the Gen 1 eeveelutions. As good as any other I guess.
Those sisters that use the 5 eevelutions(that were available back then) also live on the same city.

bump guy

bump guy Tue 20 Sep 2016 18:30:56 No.28664187 Report

Quoted By:

bump holy shit don't let this die already

bump guy

bump guy Tue 20 Sep 2016 18:43:24 No.28664498 Report

Quoted By: >>28665768

I fucking swear

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:09:22 No.28665043 Report

Quoted By: >>28665139 >>28665284

Everything from now on about Arceus is pure speculation and every theory about it is going to be vague.
Until we receive new information about Arceus in the new games we are more or less done with Arceus I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:13:51 No.28665139 Report

Quoted By: >>28665284

>>28665043

Yeah

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:16:16 No.28665206 Report

Quoted By: >>28665401 >>28665963

Was there ever a clear explanation of what the Tao trio represented, if anything? It just seemed to lack a theme.

Also, when the fuck will these hacks at gamefreak introduce the fossilmon that was the basis for Plasma's Genesect project?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:19:23 No.28665284 Report

Quoted By: >>28665393

>>28665043
>>28665139
I'm more interested in knowing what Ho-Oh's purpose is. We know literally nothing about it, it's probably the most mysterious legendary. We know it's a pretty significant and important being too, but nothing more.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Ho-oh_Pokédex_entry_(1).png, 11KiB, 256x190

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:23:30 No.28665393 Report

Quoted By: >>28667512

>>28665284

I do like Ho-oh and would like to know more about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:23:53 No.28665401 Report

Quoted By:

>>28665206
DNA Splicers "stone form" is named "God stone" in data. The original dragon was a god of the energy, divided in heat energy (Reshiram) and electric energy (Zekrom), also lack of energy, cold (Kyurem).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:31:58 No.28665566 Report

Quoted By: >>28665590

>>28655698
So I'm sorta new to these threads but what exactly constitutes "uniqueness"? There's a wild Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf in both Sinnoh and Unova.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:33:15 No.28665590 Report

Quoted By: >>28665631 >>28665863 >>28666015

>>28665566
In game, there's no reason to believe there exists a unique pokemon
Even Arceus doesn't seem to be unique.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:35:23 No.28665631 Report

Quoted By: >>28665668

>>28665590
>Arceus isn't unique
What makes you say that? Are event Pokemon to be considered canon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:37:35 No.28665668 Report

Quoted By:

>>28665631
I don't have any proof of anything
Arceus just seems like an extremely rare pokemon, but I don't see a reason to believe it's unique, especially if it turns out it "only" created Sinnoh and Ransei and not the entire universe.

Maybe there was an "original" Arceus (its thousand handed form), which then created the pokemon universe, but Arceus as depicted in the games doesn't seem to be the original one.

Again that's just headcanon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:42:50 No.28665768 Report

Quoted By:

>>28664498
Dude, just let it be. These threads are usually slow, but they last long.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:46:33 No.28665863 Report

Quoted By:

>>28665590
>In game, there's no reason to believe there exists a unique pokemon
The Tao trio say hello.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:50:53 No.28665963 Report

Quoted By:

>>28665206
>Was there ever a clear explanation of what the Tao trio represented, if anything? It just seemed to lack a theme.
If you´ve actually played Gen 5 you´d know it was truth and ideals. Do you have ADHD or didn´t actually play Gen 5?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:53:40 No.28666015 Report

Quoted By: >>28666054 >>28666253

>>28665590
>In game, there's no reason to believe there exists a unique pokemon
How so? The lore of some pretty much requires them to be unique. The beasts are pokemon that died on burned tower(gameplay contradicts this, but this is a lore thread), Mewtwo and Genesect are artificial experiments gone wrong.

>Even Arceus doesn't seem to be unique.
How? The only legal way to get it is through an event, no lore attached except Sinjoh ruins.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:55:32 No.28666054 Report

Quoted By: >>28666182

>>28666015
You're wrong
It was confirmed that there exist several Mewtwo and Genesect

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 19:59:52 No.28666140 Report

Quoted By:

So what do you guys think the Ultra Beast are? I'm having a hard time finding decent YouTubers that like to discuss Pokemon Theories without them going full fanfiction

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:01:23 No.28666182 Report

Quoted By: >>28666340

>>28666054
The idea of multiple mewtwo doesn't make sense at all anon which is why it's an anime only thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:03:56 No.28666253 Report

Quoted By:

>>28666015
There might have been an original Johto trio, but it's pretty much established both in the games and anime that there exist several of them now

Either way, aside from the Tao trio arguably, there is literally no indication that any pokemon is unique

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:08:02 No.28666340 Report

Quoted By: >>28666427 >>28667512

>>28666182
>The idea of multiple mewtwo doesn't make sense at all
Why not?

Also to go back on your statement regarding Arceus, that doesn't prove it's unique. Mythicals aren't unique, see Shaymin or Darkrai for example which we know aren't

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:10:57 No.28666427 Report

Quoted By: >>28666525

>>28666340
I'm not the anon talking about Arceus.

As for Mewtwo you should know that genetics aren't perfect enough to create a two beings that look exactly the same. Which is why people didn't like that there was a second Mewtwo seemingly separate from the first.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:14:56 No.28666525 Report

Quoted By: >>28666718

>>28666427
>genetics aren't perfect enough to create a two beings that look exactly the same
What do you mean, I don't get it
What are twins

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:20:10 No.28666718 Report

Quoted By: >>28666787 >>28666811

>>28666525
Twins also come from the same egg anon.
And I'm talking about how if you recreate the methods it wouldn't create something that looks like Mewtwo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:21:29 No.28666787 Report

Quoted By:

>>28666718
I suppose there's also fraternal twins but they rarely look the same.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:22:02 No.28666811 Report

Quoted By: >>28666946

>>28666718
I still don't understand what the problem is with there being several Mewtwo. The technology in the pokemon world is vastly above our own, why would they not be able to create two clones of Mew?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:26:27 No.28666946 Report

Quoted By: >>28667029

>>28666811
>why would they not be able to create two clones of Mew?
The problem isn't that they wouldn't be able to create two clones of Mewtwo but it's that the second clone wouldn't be similar to Mewtwo to the extent that it would look like a perfect clone.

Also Mewtwo isn't a clone in the games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:27:36 No.28666974 Report

Quoted By: >>28667033 >>28667306

>Alola is described as being Closer to nature than other regions
>Sinnoh people used to marry pokemon when they were closer to nature
Therefor I propose that people in Alola still marry pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:29:22 No.28667029 Report

Quoted By: >>28667191

>>28666946
>Mewtwo isn't a clone in the games.
But it is
>A Pokémon created by recombining Mew's genes. It's said to have the most savage heart among Pokémon.
>It was created by a scientist after years of horrific gene splicing and DNA engineering experiments.
>Its DNA is almost the same as Mew's. However, its size and disposition are vastly different.
I guess it's not a "clone" if you want to get semantic but it's still modeled after Mew and artificially created from its DNA.

>the second clone wouldn't be similar to Mewtwo to the extent that it would look like a perfect clone
But why not? Is that harder to believe than pokemon being transformed into data and put into PCs? Or actual teleporters existing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:29:27 No.28667033 Report

Quoted By:

>>28666974
I'd marry a Lurantis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:35:40 No.28667191 Report

Quoted By: >>28667252

>>28667029
>but it's still modeled after Mew and artificially created from its DNA.
One thing you have to remember is that cloning is genetic modification but genetic modification isn't always cloning.
Then there's the fact that the Japanese version of Gen 1 uses birth in the literal sense.
In other words, Mewtwo is a modified Mew from inside the womb.

Nothing actually suggests it's a clone or that it was made artificially as you seem to think.

>Is that harder to believe than pokemon being transformed into data and put into PCs? Or actual teleporters existing?
Yes because that's how genetics work.
I'm surprised you don't see it yourself seeing as you want to follow the clone theory as flawed as it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:38:13 No.28667252 Report

Quoted By: >>28667310

>>28667191
I just don't understand the point you're trying to make but I guess I'm just retarded
Whether it's a clone or genetic experiment doesn't change the fact that the pokemon world certainly has the technology to make several Mewtwo that all look like each other.

>Nothing actually suggests it's a clone
Even if it isn't, that doesn't mean it's unique.

>that's how genetics work
Why wouldn't they be able to modify Mew's genome twice in the exact same way?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:40:42 No.28667306 Report

Quoted By:

>>28666974
There was a thread a while back about how the regions handle pokelove.
here it is if you wanna read it
https://archive.nyafuu.org/vp/thread/27924230/#27926381

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:41:00 No.28667310 Report

Quoted By: >>28667353

>>28667252
>Why wouldn't they be able to modify Mew's genome twice in the exact same way?
Random mutations, environmental factors, recessive genes, suppressed genes.
A multitude of factors.

Cloning isn't as perfect as they make it seem in sci-fi movies anon.
Taking your clone perspective Mewtwo is sufficient proof of this too seeing as it has traits that Mew itself doesn't have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:42:33 No.28667353 Report

Quoted By:

>>28667310
>A multitude of factors.
That literally cannot ever be nullified with scientific advancement?

>it has traits that Mew itself doesn't have
Wasn't this intentional on the scientists' part?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 20:48:09 No.28667512 Report

Quoted By: >>28668150

>>28665393
Ho-Oh is depicted in the Ruins of Alph even in HGSS. Together with Arceus and Suicune it has a special connection to the Unown and also a special connection to Suicune itself.

>>28666340
You might consider reading the information given in those two long posts at the top and the posts in the last thread about Arceus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 21:14:16 No.28668150 Report

Quoted By: >>28668607

>>28667512

We're talking about Ho-oh.
Not about Arceus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Sep 2016 21:33:37 No.28668607 Report

Quoted By:

>>28668150
Well, there is a connection between Ho-Oh and the Unown just as there is a special connection between Ho-Oh and Suicune.
There isn't really much about it in the games or the anime.
Maybe it is supposed to watch over the Unown?
So we can only wish for more Ho-Oh in the future. Maybe there will be another library with "legends from around the world"?

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