/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #29921204

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Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 04:58:15 No.29921204 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>29921251 >>29921296 >>29921726 >>29921749 >>29921778 >>29921888 >>29922117 >>29922225

How do you feel about the powercreep that's gone on over the past few gens?

I've been watching old Battle Revolution videos lately, and it makes me realize how much I miss competitive in Gen 4. For the most part, everything was balanced well enough, and no team preview meant you could pull off some hilariously gimmicky sets sometimes with underrated Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 04:59:23 No.29921225 Report

Quoted By:

Blame the Genies

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:01:11 No.29921251 Report

Quoted By:

>>29921204
They designed a lot of mons with lessening power creep in mind but forgot to give the memo to the guy designing Z moves and UBs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:03:25 No.29921283 Report

Quoted By:

Powercreep has been a real factor in the past few metas. Gen 6 was insane with the addition of Mega's and mons like Greninja and Talonflame. I think Gen 7 will be a solid attempt at balancing out the metagame, so that should help slow things down in a literal sense. Also, Zinnia-chan never gets old, thank you OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:04:17 No.29921296 Report

Quoted By: >>29922489

>>29921204
The only huge Power Creep was Gen 6.

Gen 5 was about a strategy being too strong which was fixed and Gen 7's stats are very moderate and dials things back considerably.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:29:26 No.29921726 Report

Quoted By:

>>29921204

this happens in a lot of games, like the pokemon trading card game or any trading card game that comes to mind. im not sure if it's inevitable but it sure seems like it. i feel like it might become unplayable if this keeps up, but I'm sure gamefreak can reverse it if they make an effort to nerf enough things *coughs* genies *coughs*

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:30:40 No.29921749 Report

Quoted By:

>>29921204
>elemental fangs were considered good coverage
>Garchomp was in Ubers
>Sub petaya empoleon

I agree OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:32:36 No.29921778 Report

Quoted By: >>29921800 >>29924059

>>29921204
Gen 4 OU is literally gen 6 UU

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:34:15 No.29921800 Report

Quoted By:

>>29921778
It was arguably better thanks to our dear departed dictator Kokoloko.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:39:14 No.29921888 Report

Quoted By: >>29922341 >>29925056

>>29921204
I miss overhazard, darklatios, and all those other PBR players, that was a cool time before Smogon really took over and brainwashed an entire community

The Switch is perfect for PBR2 or Stadium 3

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:48:03 No.29922066 Report

Quoted By:

I miss no team preview, but power creep is just what happens to a series that goes this long

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:49:47 No.29922102 Report

Quoted By:

I miss no team preview aswell. Me and my friends always cover the screen while battling irl, just seems more fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:50:38 No.29922117 Report

Quoted By:

>>29921204
>everything was balanced well enough
Gen 4 is where they fucking ruined the balance. Are you kidding me? Gen 3 had a few really strong pokemon, but 90% of gen 4's pokemon made the entirety of gen 2 and most of gen 1 completely fucking obsolete.
I'm glad they pulled their heads out of their asses finally for gen 7. These past gens have had BST that were WAY too high. I just want to be able to use niggas like Ledian again.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 0987.png, 15KiB, 694x208

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:56:27 No.29922225 Report

Quoted By: >>29922242

>>29921204
RIP Gyaravire

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 05:57:38 No.29922242 Report

Quoted By: >>29922422

>>29922225
What did Cress even do the Gyaravire?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:03:06 No.29922341 Report

Quoted By: >>29922393 >>29922521

>>29921888
Smogon and its tier system is pure cancer. I've seen people going berserk for having pokemon of different tiers in a team, even if it didn't give me any sort of unfair advantage. I am not gonna play fucking genies and pseudos just because they tell me to. They aren't official or anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:06:36 No.29922393 Report

Quoted By:

>>29922341
People being dumb spergs doesn't have anything to do with the system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:08:09 No.29922422 Report

Quoted By: >>29922498

>>29922242
with her bulk she can counter electivire

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:10:10 No.29922457 Report

Quoted By: >>29922496 >>29922640

Seeing weird Japanese teams was the coolest thing.

They'd all use mons that most western players would disregard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:11:51 No.29922489 Report

Quoted By: >>29922794

>>29921296

How is that gonna dial things back? In time everyone will have a lot of the things that made gen 6 retarded bar a few so people will just end up using that instead.

Same thing happens in various TCG card games. Some sets aren't meta game defining and don't add a whole lot to the competitive game as a whole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:12:26 No.29922496 Report

Quoted By:

>>29922457
I'll always stick by the fact I'd rather lose to a team of random, interesting Pokemon than win against the same team of Legendary/Ubers I've seen a hundred times.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:12:33 No.29922498 Report

Quoted By: >>29922856 >>29922997

>>29922422
Fucking anything that hits hard enough can counter Electivire, it was horribly overrated in gen 4 and only shitters used it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:14:29 No.29922521 Report

Quoted By: >>29922580 >>29922640 >>29925114

>>29922341
That's your problem for playing with children on cart. Literally no one gives a shit if you use lower tiered mons in a higher tier. Like, usage being the main methodology behind tiering makes that the whole point. Stall routinely uses low tier mons due to the way the playstyle works.

The only way I could see this being a somewhat legit complaint from the other side is if someone wanted to play a lower tier like RU on cart, you agreed to play RU rules, and you bring a Garchomp. But since most people just prefer to play with the strongest stuff they'll just default to OU mons. But even then, bringing something like a Mega Rayquaza or a primal into a battle that's mostly grounded in "good stuff but no broken shit" that's like bringing a Garchomp into RU.

What I'm trying to say is that the real cancer is cartridge play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:16:53 No.29922553 Report

Quoted By:

Dude just press a button to get a pokemon with 180 attack and 150 speed lmao.

Dude just use the OHKO Z-moves lmao.

Wow you're such a good trainer. :^)
Incredible strategy. :^)))

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:18:25 No.29922580 Report

Quoted By:

>>29922521

> Stall routinely uses low tier mons due to the way the playstyle works

It's a catch 22 as when certain cores of lower usage mons in stall become discovered they become OU. Tangrowth was always a good pick for such a team for example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:22:58 No.29922640 Report

Quoted By: >>29922701 >>29922773

>>29922521
Well yeah. As >>29922457 pointed out the most interesting battles I got were with Japanese players that gave no fucks. This on battle spot in the carts, that is.
I like to use shitmons like Audino or Clawitzer because I just like them, and against those guys I can have a fun fight. If I find a smogonfag, it's the same shit all the time. It's either overwhelming to the point it's not fun, or predictable and easy to the point it's not fun.
But more importantly, with 800 pokemon available sticking to the same 6 every time is just...nasty. That's why I kinda spent more time in the Battle Maison doing triples than in online battles. The AI might be shit and cheaty but at least you don't see the same group of usual suspects every single time.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1449826195094.png, 32KiB, 808x805

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:24:38 No.29922669 Report

Quoted By: >>29922774 >>29927670

>Having a stat in the 90s is worthless dogshit now

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:27:08 No.29922701 Report

Quoted By: >>29922750

>>29922640
Thing is on BS Japanese teams are generic as hell, every once in a while you get a moveset that throws you off but for the most part it's the same team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:30:39 No.29922750 Report

Quoted By:

>>29922701
Dunno, at least in triples I rarely saw the same thing twice. Except for two guys that had Darkrai with Dark Void in the center, which actually prompted me to raise a male Meowstic to set up Safeguard beforehand, and after that had a pretty varied experience.
Since the Spot is kinda random your mileage may vary, of course.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:31:53 No.29922773 Report

Quoted By: >>29922890

>>29922640
You do know that you could jump down to a lower tier and play a different metagame where you're guaranteed to see things you don't normally see with their own unique threats right? Would you believe me if I told you there is currently a meta where Flygon and regular, non-mega, who actually gives a fuck Venusaur are top tier threats? That's the point of tiers. You can't use Audino with the people spamming OU stuff? Well drop a couple of tiers and see if the relative drop in power level allows it to be used. It's not about making sure everyone uses the same shit all the time, just the opposite. It's about carving things up so that you aren't forced into using shit like Mega Rayquaza if you want to have any hope of winning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:31:55 No.29922774 Report

Quoted By:

>>29922669
Unless you got other things going for you. Clefable's highest stat is base 95

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:33:17 No.29922794 Report

Quoted By: >>29922822

>>29922489
it depowered a lot of mons

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:35:29 No.29922822 Report

Quoted By: >>29924972

>>29922794
Talonflame, Gengar, and Mega Sableye.

But oh look it's a whole bunch of moves that can OHKO walls that's nice. I sure love how they depowered stuff.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Electivire 1.gif, 26KiB, 320x262

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:37:51 No.29922856 Report

Quoted By:

>>29922498
With a 123 attack , 95 speed , good coverage and motor drive he was good in DP meta

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:39:52 No.29922890 Report

Quoted By: >>29923035 >>29923076

>>29922773
The thing is that I don't follow tiers at all. I just put trained pokemon together depending on how I feel that day. I rarely use legends and at times I just put stuff I find cute or shinies that aren't "perfect" just because I am stubborn about giving them use. A guy totally threw a REEEEing tantrum because I killed his mega t-tar with a Maractus a couple times. That was the day I actually heard about smogon tiers for the first time, because the guy was fixated on "that's not a legal team" despite the game having no issue letting me use it on Maison or so. Didn't even have legendaries on it.
First impressions matter, after all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:46:31 No.29922997 Report

Quoted By:

>>29922498
it was like one of two usable electrics back when basically nothing had non-hidden power coverage
it was justifiably utilized and only really fell off post-plat when other things started getting moves

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1479052898599.jpg, 68KiB, 490x490

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:49:17 No.29923035 Report

Quoted By: >>29923101

>>29922890
>Hurr I hate all smogonfags because I can kill high-tier things with low-tier mons sometimes
You're completely uninformed if you think anyone cares about you using Maractus against TTar.
I play OU with my PU shitmons. My team is Dusclops/Monferno/Avalugg/Lumineon/Lickitung/Raichu. I do pretty well considering that I deliberately handicap myself. I'm allowed to use those mons anywhere I want because they're bad. Literally nobody cares.

>I don't follow tiers at all
>I don't know anything about how tiers work
>But I know that tiers are bad and ruin the game
Literally every time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:52:36 No.29923076 Report

Quoted By: >>29923174

>>29922890
I know first impressions matter which is why cart is such a shit hole. Smogon sticks to Showdown or external wifi hookups. The kids who bitch about tierings or legality on cartridge are clearly fuckwits who just googled "x pokemon moveset" and thought the tier listings on smogon's dex are sacred. Hell, people who actually play on showdown laugh about the dex because those sample movesets are usually out of date due to the shifting nature of metagames. If they're not going on the forums and aren't using Showdown or extrenal hookups for games they have no right to complain.

Honestly, anyone who actually thinks they're going to get metagame-based matchups on cartridge are fucking retarded and should be disregarded. Just like the people who get a hate boner for smogon because of people who are by nature of playing on cartridge randoms not associated with smogon (cough cough dog fucker cough).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:54:34 No.29923101 Report

Quoted By: >>29923128 >>29923149

>>29923035
Nigga what?
The maractus thing was just a fucking example, not a brag of anything. The point was the reaction of the guy.

I didn't say they ruin the game. But they are a completely unofficial system and people expects everyone to follow the tiers to a t. And that's annoying. It'd be like me giving you shit for not preparing risotto the same way I do. It makes no sense unless the games enforce it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:56:35 No.29923128 Report

Quoted By: >>29923174

>>29923101
Anyone who complains about using Maractus against TTar is retarded because even Smogon allows that matchup - you're allowed to use shitmons in higher tiers. Tiers aren't a restriction on shitmons, they're a restriction on goodmons. Just because some kid gets mad at you doesn't mean that the system he clearly doesn't understand is at fault.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 06:58:35 No.29923149 Report

Quoted By: >>29923174 >>29924488

>>29923101
I never understand where people find these smogon players that do that. Most of them use showdown and the other small bunch play with other smogon players on the DS, but set it up before hand. The only exception is a few random anons here, but thats it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 07:00:33 No.29923174 Report

Quoted By: >>29923189

>>29923128
And that's the point of what I said >>29923076 so me and this anon are in agreement even if I'd rather not be hostile (or use PU mons in OU).

I think the point we're trying to make is that dumbasses ruin everything.

>>29923149
You'll find them every now and then. Retarded kids who like I said google "x pokemon moveset" and misunderstand the point of smogon tiering. As stated above, dumbasses ruin everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 07:01:46 No.29923189 Report

Quoted By:

>>29923174
Yeah I guess "dumbasses ruin everything" sums it up nicely. Thanks for the input. (no sarcasm)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 08:34:56 No.29924059 Report

Quoted By: >>29924112

>>29921778
Electivire was OU in DPt, now he's NU

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 08:41:38 No.29924112 Report

Quoted By: >>29924254

>>29924059
Electivire was always shit. It was how Ambipom and Cinccino are now in RU. They need to drop but they fucking won't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 08:56:53 No.29924254 Report

Quoted By: >>29924392 >>29924447

>>29924112
If Electivire is shit, explain why Zekrom is in Ubers, a Pokemon with worse type coverage, lower speed, and a worse ability.

Yes, Zekrom has more ATK, but Electivire is infinitely better at scoring SE hits.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 09:10:33 No.29924392 Report

Quoted By:

>>29924254
>worse ability
debatable

>Electivire is infinitely better at scoring SE hits
which doesn't matter when its moves' base powers are average as fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 09:17:21 No.29924447 Report

Quoted By:

>>29924254
Ubers isn't a usage tier you halfwit. The only box legendary that isn't Ubers by default is Kyurem-B due to it being so bad compared to all the others that the OU council decided to give it a shot in OU. We might see this happen to Deo-N, Reshiram, and a bunch of things banned from OU in Gen 6 but that all depends on how adventurous the OUTLs feel like being.

As for Electivire itself instead of retarded deflection to Zekrom which is infinitely better and not even related to usage based tiering, its bulk is dogshit, its physical movepool is awful and full of low base power moves, and its special attack is only good at best. It's sort of fast but not fast enough. Running it scarfed means it lacks in power. Its ability is extremely situational.

Just to make things super clear, currently Electivire sits in B- in the NU viability ranks. You know what else is B-? Bronzor, Sliggoo, and Roselia.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 09:24:16 No.29924488 Report

Quoted By:

>>29923149
>tfw am one of those random anons
I just happen to like bullying those other types of people on cart with niche shitmons without having to worry about laddering up to the point where I'm not able to do it as well anymore. Really helps that they don't use meta things like the genies and other prominent legendaries aren't commonly found on cart either.

>I never understand where people find these smogon players that do that
I occasionally run into those types of people on cart but I don't consider them to be Smogon players because of how warped their sense of what Smogon is compared to people actually on the forums. Me personally, I think they're mainly newer competitive players who heard about Smogon, took a 2 minute crash course on it and believe they know everything about it. You're entirely right that about most actual Smogon players only playing Showdown or off on their own away from random wifi though

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:12:46 No.29924972 Report

Quoted By: >>29925030

>>29922822
What did they do to M. Sable?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:19:56 No.29925030 Report

Quoted By: >>29925072 >>29925079 >>29925101 >>29925249

>>29924972
Turn order is now calculated after mega evolving. This means that mons like Beedrill and Diancie don't have to run protect and it means Banette has Prankster on the first turn, but it also means Sableye doesn't have Prankster on the turn that it megas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:22:51 No.29925056 Report

Quoted By:

>>29921888
It seems like something that would be cool, even if they just reused the in game models.
I hear the models are too big for the 3DS to handle anyway, so they probably upscale well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:24:11 No.29925072 Report

Quoted By: >>29925100

>>29925030
Wait this is just changed smogon mechanic or change in S/M?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:24:31 No.29925079 Report

Quoted By: >>29925100

>>29925030
Damn, man. I'm glad I never invested too much time in using him. I think my most common pokes will be benefited by this change.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:27:07 No.29925100 Report

Quoted By: >>29925249

>>29925072
The only time Smogon ever changes the way mechanics work is when they add a clause, and that usually just affects team legality.

>>29925079
To be fair it's not a HUGE nerf. It just means it can't wisp or get a CM off before taking a hit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:27:20 No.29925101 Report

Quoted By:

>>29925030
That seems like the kind of thing they'd do.
Remember when Switch ins used to happen immediately after KO so you could use wish, die the next turn then get healed in the Switch in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:29:01 No.29925114 Report

Quoted By: >>29925660

>>29922521
>What I'm trying to say is that the real cancer is cartridge play.
Good joke. Now get out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:31:22 No.29925136 Report

Quoted By:

Smogon are not official and the poketubers who force people to play their rules are cancer

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:43:01 No.29925244 Report

Quoted By: >>29925261 >>29925923

>Gen 1 was Psychic types, Sleep, and Legendaries: The Generation
>Gen 2 came down to whoever could setup Snorlax first
>Gen 3 was Sun/Rain and Steel+Dragon types derived pain: The Generation
>Gen 4 was "muh entry hazards" with a side of Fighting types: The Generation
>Gen 5 was dominanvw of the Fighting types with a side of Bugs: The Generation
>Gen 6 was the double woman on one man threesome special (Fairies, Flying, and Megas)

Damn it's almost like the series has always had horribly dominant strats/mons that make older ones worthless with each new generation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:43:20 No.29925249 Report

Quoted By:

>>29925100
>>29925030
No one is forcing you to hit the Mega button on turn 1. Like Gyarados, Sableye is one of the few Megas that can afford to hold off for a few turns while it sets up or whatever. Spam Wisp and Recover with Prankster, then hit Mega when you think they'll try to Toxic you or they bring in a stronger special attacker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 10:44:12 No.29925261 Report

Quoted By:

>>29925244
Add weather wars to gen 5 and that's a pretty much perfect list

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 11:27:00 No.29925660 Report

Quoted By:

>>29925114
Okay little niglet, tell me how cart play is better. Is it because of Battlespot? Oh wait that's a ladder on Showdown. Is it because VGC play? Oh wait that's also a ladder on Showdown. Is it because you can stomp random children with box legendaries? Is it because there's no chat?

Or is it just because it's prettier to play on cartridge? That's the only upside I can genuinely give to cart play. But even that doesn't make up for how shit it is to actually play there unless you're scrounging for match ups on twitter, IRC, or generals.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1419626091743.jpg, 37KiB, 177x278

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 11:54:28 No.29925923 Report

Quoted By:

>>29925244
>No mention of gen 1 normal types
>gen 1 legendaries outside of Mew and its clone
>gen 3 weather setters

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 14:35:07 No.29927670 Report

Quoted By: >>29927847

>>29922669
>What is kingdra

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 14:45:12 No.29927847 Report

Quoted By: >>29927924

>>29927670
Worthless dog shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Nov 2016 14:50:42 No.29927924 Report

Quoted By:

>>29927847
>t. Smogon over competitive cancer

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