/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #30445362

[12 / 2 / ?]

Gen II=bad game design

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 18:40:07 No.30445362 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>30445648 >>30445779 >>30447196 >>30447433

-Johto pokemon in Kanto
-no dark types besides Umbreon until Kanto
-you'd never know almost 20 pokemons existed because they're so hard to find, post Kanto badges, trade evolutions holding items, babies, no trainer uses them, headbutt, etc
-elemental stones, you only get 1 of each in Kanto
-horrible level scale, game is a cakewalk

there needs to be a The Problem with Gen 2 meme

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 18:50:16 No.30445648 Report

Quoted By: >>30445779 >>30447316

>>30445362
>"Johto Pokemon"
There's your first mistake. They aren't "Johto Pokemon", they're just a new generation. The additional 100 were designed as an expansion of the original 151, rather than being regional (a trend that didn't really start until Hoenn). This is why they don't have any problem giving Johto leaders loads of 1st gen Pokemon, why some of the new 100 are rare or post-game, and why the Johto Pokedex includes Pokemon like Charmander in it's Pokedex despite not being available without trading.

It's fine to dislike that kind of philosophy of design - I'm not a huge fan myself - but it's more of a relic of it's time than intentionally dumb game design. The real crime is that they didn't fix any of this in HG/SS.

Also yeah, the Elemental Stones thing was just plain retarded on GF's part.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 18:57:40 No.30445779 Report

Quoted By:

>>30445362
>Johto pokemon in Kanto
The regions are right next to each other, and set 4 years later.

It makes sense that mons like Hoppip that spread via wind currents to end up inhabiting the place after a relatively short period of time.

and as >>30445648 said, it was designed more as an expansion of the 1st gen, with Hoenn being the first to cut off large sections of the dex entirely from the region - a move that pissed a lot of people off at the time, but I'm glad that they stuck with every gen.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1480668900440.png, 971KiB, 1997x2916

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 19:01:44 No.30445858 Report

Quoted By:

the remakes didn't fix shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 19:56:42 No.30447196 Report

Quoted By:

>>30445362
The "Gen 2 was the best" meme is just from kids who played that one first. Pretty much just a second wave of GenWunners. I don't think anyone without nostalgia glasses thinks 2 was the best gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 20:01:18 No.30447316 Report

Quoted By: >>30450042

>>30445648
Okay, I can except that the pokedex doesnt seem to be limited by geography. My problem is that we theoretically should have encountered Houndour in generation one if it's a Kanto species. All the new pokemon should have at minimum had some habitat in Johto

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 20:05:55 No.30447433 Report

Quoted By:

>>30445362

Worst region, worst pokemons (sneasel, murkrow, ursaring and scizor are important exceptions), awful level curve, awful challanges, bad history, asshat rival... wew. I will not evem talk about the starters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 20:06:10 No.30447438 Report

Quoted By:

Nothing will ever be worse than Gen 2

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 20:06:43 No.30447451 Report

Quoted By:

fuck this thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 21:24:46 No.30449438 Report

Quoted By: >>30449466

Johto is the worst region in the franchise

And by a good margin. It's easily the smallest, with the fewest regions, most of them being short and linear. But what is arguably worse is the Pokémon diversity throughout Johto. The new Pokémon show up less often as Kanto staples with staples Which leaves the whole experience feeling stale. How is it a new adventure when I'm still running into Ratatta and Pidgey on the first route?

Actually take the first Route in GSC as an example. The tall grass ancounter rates are:

55% Pidgey
40% Hoothoot
5% Ratatta

That's a 60% chance to run into a RBY Pokémon as the first thing you do in a new game. And the trend continues throughout.

The "story" is painfully dull

Team Rocket? Again? It just feels like cheap pandering to make them the antagonist a second time round, especially when their driving motivation is the find their leader who disbanded three years prior. It's just pointless and almost undoes the efforts of the player in Red/Blue/Yellow.

Silver is also a poor rival. His talk about hating the weak rings hollow when he is constantly losing to the PC. At least RBY mitigated the Badass decay by having Blue constantly be one step ahead of the player when it came to earning badges. And Black/White's Cheren goes one step further by having it become part of his character development.

I don't like Lance either. Why is an Elite Four member getting promoted to Champion? Having someone new come to take the role would have been better than "that guy I beat in the first game". Also, his cape is stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 21:25:49 No.30449466 Report

Quoted By:

>>30449438
The Johto League is laughably easy

It's so pedestrian it hurts. There's maybe one fight in the whole game that comes close to a challenge (And I don't get how people had trouble with Whitney, I steamrolled her first time), while everything is just pounding on Youngster Joeys. Lance is also the lowest levelled champion in the series and is a cakewalk to anyone with enough brain cells to remember that he used dragons in RBY and that Dragons are weak to Ice-type attacks.

Kanto is an absolute trainwreck

The region gets absolutely gutted in the transition from Gen I to Gen II. For starters, Cerulean Cave, Seafoam Islands, Pokémon Mansion, Power Plant, Safari Zone and Viridian Bloody Forest are all missing, with the other points of interest drastically scaled down. The oft-lauded Kanto Gym leaders are just as easy as the rest of the game, too. In fact, Blue's team as Viridian city Gym leader is lower levelled than his team as Champion in RBY. The whole place is hollow and lifeless, little more than half a region. And not even the half that's missing from Johto!

The fact that Kanto is in the game makes the underexposure of the Gen II Pokémon in the first half all the more baffling.

In Conclusion

The game takes place in two half-regions instead of a whole one. The repetition of old Pokémon and characters throughout the main story makes the game feel small. The new Pokémon and characters either don't show up nearly enough or are just boring. Finally, it chooses Generation I nostalgia bait over actual post-game content.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Dec 2016 21:48:40 No.30450042 Report

Quoted By:

>>30447316
The Hoothoot, Houndour, Murkrow, Spinarak and various other Gen II Pokemon families can be caught in Kanto, but nearly all of them are locked behind new encounter methods, like being exclusive to night-time (in Hoothoot/Houndour/Murkrow's case) or being headbutt-exclusive. The theory, then, is that they've all been canonically available in Kanto since the beginning - you just didn't see any.

There are a few other Pokemon that show up though. Snubbull, Sentret and Hoppip all show up in Kanto with very little explanation given. I guess it's not too crazy to say they migrated? Considering the nature of the Pokemon world and the sport of catching them, it doesnt surprise me that Pokemon populations can spread out or move habitat quite quickly.

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

On these archives

Your latest searches

Gen II=bad game design