/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #31747773

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Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 22:34:59 No.31747773 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>31747916 >>31747960 >>31747998 >>31748025 >>31748056 >>31749465 >>31750917

What would it take for Smogon to shed its aversion to the evasion stat? Would a greater variety and distribution of high-power perfect-accuracy moves such as Smart Strike help to alleviate this issue?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 22:40:41 No.31747844 Report

Quoted By:

They don't like it because it amps up RNG dependency. Perfect accuracy moves being weak and rarely distributed is a small factor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 22:42:57 No.31747860 Report

Quoted By:

aversion to evasion/accuracy isn't exclusive to smogon. video gamers in general hate that shit it's used against them

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 22:46:35 No.31747885 Report

Quoted By:

Entering the doubles format.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 22:49:52 No.31747916 Report

Quoted By: >>31747935 >>31748244 >>31748309

>>31747773
what would it take for smogon to not hate trapping abilities
I want to use gothitelle

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 22:51:35 No.31747935 Report

Quoted By: >>31747992 >>31748066 >>31748244 >>31748322

>>31747916
You can, just without Shadow Tag.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 22:53:20 No.31747960 Report

Quoted By:

>>31747773

No, we are already extremely limited to only 24 moves on a team, and you lose access to 4 of those every time a pokemon gets KO'd. It's not possible to make a team that counters every move/stat/ability/strategy/etc in the game, it's okay for the really cheap ones to just no longer exist

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 22:56:22 No.31747992 Report

Quoted By: >>31748011 >>31748244

>>31747935
So I can't use it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 22:57:18 No.31747998 Report

Quoted By:

>>31747773

No, because evasion moves have way too high distribution, so you can't just tack on one perfect accuracy attack because certain evasion mons are resistant to certain perfect accuracy attacks. You aren't just countering evasion, you are countering every pokemon that can use evasion

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 22:58:30 No.31748011 Report

Quoted By: >>31748047 >>31748066 >>31748176 >>31748244

>>31747992
You can use it, just not with Shadow Tag.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:00:11 No.31748025 Report

Quoted By: >>31748055

>>31747773
do you really want to fight against a double team mega sableye?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:01:09 No.31748035 Report

Quoted By: >>31748055

why the fuck do people want evasion unbanned so badly

do you just want to pretend you're 8 years old again when you beat lance with your double team fire spin charizard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:02:23 No.31748047 Report

Quoted By: >>31748100 >>31748244

>>31748011
So I can't use it
that's like saying you can "use" wobbuffet but only with telepathy, or you can "use" mega rayquaza, but only if it's holding an iron ball

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:03:38 No.31748055 Report

Quoted By: >>31748129

>>31748025
>>31748035
I understand why Smogon doesn't like evasion. I'm not trying to decry Smogon's decision here, I'm just pondering how Game Freak could change the game so that evasion/accuracy isn't so frustrating to fight against.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:03:51 No.31748056 Report

Quoted By:

>>31747773
Unlimited PP on perfectly accurate moves.
An ability that combines scrappy and technician distributed to every mon
An item that increases damage when you hit a target with evasion boosts
Reducing the distribution of double team
A full ban to baton pass

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:05:09 No.31748066 Report

Quoted By: >>31748244

>>31747935
>>31748011
That's basically saying you can't use it. They banned Gothitelle and the other trappers for a reason though. Gothitelle is banned and should stay that way, don't use it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:07:27 No.31748100 Report

Quoted By: >>31748143 >>31748155

>>31748047
Play AG then cuckboi

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:09:10 No.31748129 Report

Quoted By: >>31748244

>>31748055
>I'm just pondering how Game Freak could change the game so that evasion/accuracy isn't so frustrating to fight against.

Has there ever been a turn based game where one of your attacks missing wasn't agonizingly rage inducing? It's just not fun when you basically lose a turn, lose time out of your life, and your strategy potentially goes out the window because of a dice roll

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:10:12 No.31748143 Report

Quoted By: >>31748244

>>31748100
>imblyin
Gothitelle is pretty much in ban hell. So weak it will instantly die in ubers or AG and is useless af because you could just use something better like M-Gengar, but with too good an ability for OU. Basically the OU version of BL hell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:11:13 No.31748155 Report

Quoted By: >>31748173

>>31748100
AG is the only good way to play smogon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:12:31 No.31748173 Report

Quoted By: >>31748209

>>31748155
t. 5 Arceus and Mega-Fug player

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:12:56 No.31748176 Report

Quoted By:

>>31748011
But he can't use it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:16:57 No.31748209 Report

Quoted By: >>31749388

>>31748173
>5 arceus
I can't really get that to do anything. Only normal arceus is good enough to take the slot tbqh

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:19:17 No.31748244 Report

Quoted By: >>31748271 >>31748759

>>31748129
Usually those characters are frail and limber, if they ever do get hit they are guaranteed dead. It's a balancing act. Pokemon's issue is that many of the evasion moves go to mons that are a great deal on the bulky side.

>>31747916
>>31747935
>>31747992
>>31748011
>>31748047
>>31748066
>>31748047
>>31748143
FFS just nerf Shadow Tag by giving it a catch like Magnet Pull or Arena Trap. I made this topic about evasion, enough with your shitty Fagitelle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:21:42 No.31748271 Report

Quoted By:

>>31748244
no
also
>male gothitelle
anon pls

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:24:46 No.31748309 Report

Quoted By: >>31748359

>>31747916
For it to not be the last fun thing to fight against

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:25:18 No.31748322 Report

Quoted By:

>>31747935
>Ban Shadow Tag and you can't use Wobbuffet effectively with its trashy Telepathy ability and Wobby would actually pretty good, see gen 4
>Ban Dugtrio and not Arena Trap because maybe someone wants to use Trapinch in OU
Smogon logic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:28:45 No.31748359 Report

Quoted By: >>31748377

>>31748309
there's plenty of things that are generally agreed as unfun and smogon doesn't ban those

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:30:21 No.31748377 Report

Quoted By: >>31748399 >>31748443

>>31748359
Other than Baton Pass, nothing was less fun than Goth Stall. The only thing I can think of nearly as "unfun" is stall in general.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:32:44 No.31748399 Report

Quoted By: >>31748466

>>31748377
>tfw they haven't banned toxapex, chansey, dugtrio, shedinja, and celesteela

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:37:22 No.31748443 Report

Quoted By: >>31748471

>>31748377
Yeah but that's what I mean. They don't ban arena trap as a whole, they don't ban all the stallmons people hate, and they don't ban the landorus that everyone complains is "unfun and way too useful." I just don't get their ban structure.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1485789307558.png, 175KiB, 875x875

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:40:29 No.31748466 Report

Quoted By: >>31748546

>>31748399
>shedinja
>unfun
>ban

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:41:28 No.31748471 Report

Quoted By: >>31748528

>>31748443
>they don't ban the landorus that everyone complains is "unfun and way too useful."
Nobody who's good at this game complains that Landorus is unfun or too useful. Arena Trap as a whole isn't good, Diglett Stall is a joke. While I dont like Stall, banning the entire playstyle would cause a lot of backlash. It seems to me like your only experience with Smogon is through what people on /vp/ say, and the majority of people on here are fucking trash and only a few actually know what they're talking about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:46:56 No.31748507 Report

Quoted By:

Evasion is just "I want the RNG to play the game for me".
I don't know why anyone would want it unless they think they're the only person who'd use it for the epic trole factor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:48:46 No.31748528 Report

Quoted By: >>31748570 >>31748772

>>31748471
I used to play back in gen 5 quite a bit and accumulated a lot of ladder experience. I kind of just dropped it around gen 6 and didn't feel like going back because of stuff they introduced fairly recently like the baton pass ban or realising that their hasty ban on M-Sableye which was too shit for ubers. I only really go back once in a while to see what the new fanmade meta is like before going back to the games. And I hear quite a bit of complaints about landorus, not that it's overpowered but rather that it's simply unviable to not have a team with it and it became a prerequisite to have one lest you lose every match. I suppose the problem really lies in that everything "good" needs a counter and the best one is landorus, but I still stand by the things I hear about it being far too useful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:50:41 No.31748546 Report

Quoted By:

>>31748466
>tfw love fucking around with shedinja
>butthurt rainfags want it banned
suffering

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:53:15 No.31748570 Report

Quoted By: >>31748650

>>31748528
>realising that their hasty ban on M-Sableye which was too shit for ubers
Sableye wasn't unbanned because of this, it was unbanned because it was a new meta and with the new things introduced in the meta it's possible it won't be much of an issue. For the ORAS metagame, Mega Sableye is a pretty stupid mon. How useful it is in ubers shouldn't really apply to its unban anyways. Landorus' versatility is in a blanket check to many physical threats, and with the massive amounts of physical threats available it's obviously gonna be very useful. It's by no means required for a team to be competitively viable, but it's just a very good mon to have because of how much utility it has.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Feb 2017 23:59:49 No.31748650 Report

Quoted By: >>31748748

>>31748570
Mega Sableye did not fare well in ubers though, did it? Worse than the lowest of the low from the discussions on their forums I've seen.
And yes, I did say that most of the good stuff needs a counter, but that's really why Landorus is always there. Few standard teams without one actually make it that far, unless the pilot of the team is incredibly skilled and lucky enough for the opponent to get fucked over. I don't think being used on almost every viable, non-themed team makes it bannable, but it certainly warrants consideration for limitation, possibly ability wise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Feb 2017 00:09:13 No.31748748 Report

Quoted By: >>31752555

>>31748650
>Mega Sableye did not fare well in ubers though, did it
As low as things like Deoxys N if I remember, which is extremely low. Although its usefulness in ubers really shouldn't matter, as it was too much for ORAS. "Few standard teams without one actually make it that far" isn't entirely accurate. Not using Landorus doesn't inherently put you at a disadvantage against a team with a Landorus. I haven't been watching a ton of SPL, but Lando hasn't been a particularly large threat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Feb 2017 00:10:12 No.31748759 Report

Quoted By:

>>31748244
Maybe make it work only against ghost types? It bypasses their immunity to trapping of course.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Feb 2017 00:11:40 No.31748772 Report

Quoted By: >>31752555

>>31748528
Being shit in Ubers does not mean you're okay for OU. Hell, some OU pokemon are more viable in Ubers than actual Ubers pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Feb 2017 00:57:20 No.31749388 Report

Quoted By: >>31750797

>>31748209
Specially defensive Steel Arceus walls Xerneas and kills off Mega Diancies (one of the top threats in the format, oddly, because it magic bounces away Swagger, Thunderwave, and Spore/DarkVoid

Have a Fairy Arceus with Calm Mind and Judgement for rapid Mega Sableyes (another top threat). Does well against Mega Fug most of the time too, depending on if they make it mixed or not.

Throw in Ghost Arceus as a utility pokemon. It gets Stealth Rocks up and spinblocks both at once. Crushes poor players all on its own.

Now add in a Normal Arceus (Swords Dance, E-Speed, Shadow Claw, Overheat) as one of your finishers.

For 5th slot either use another Normal Arceus or Xerneas, depending on your tastes.

Add in either Mega Fug or Mega Diancie with Calm Mind (depending on how much you want to rape Swagger players) and you're finished.

And that's how you build AG team without using Klefki or baton Pass!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Feb 2017 01:02:22 No.31749465 Report

Quoted By:

>>31747773
>Smart Strike
>high power
Only Kartana uses it, and that's because it has no other STAB. There are only three decent moves that bypass evasion/accuracy. Two of them are exclusive to Hoopa, and the last one has terrible distribution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Feb 2017 02:47:47 No.31750797 Report

Quoted By:

>>31749388
Huh, thanks. I never really thought to use steel Arceus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Feb 2017 02:57:55 No.31750917 Report

Quoted By: >>31751196

>>31747773
>+6 Evasion only reduces Accuracy by 50% instead of 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%
There, Evasion is fixed forever, -50% within a single turn because of Minimize is turbo bullshit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Feb 2017 03:18:23 No.31751196 Report

Quoted By:

>>31750917
This.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Feb 2017 05:13:39 No.31752555 Report

Quoted By:

>>31748748
>>31748772
Fair enough. Maybe GF just needs to introduce some better counter pokemon.

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