/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #32657714

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Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 02:37:50 No.32657714 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>32657719 >>32657781 >>32657796 >>32657851 >>32657903 >>32657923 >>32658267 >>32658699 >>32658749 >>32661950 >>32662687 >>32663667 >>32664913 >>32665119

How the flying fuck are truth and ideals in conflict with one another?
Why couldn't the brothers just pursue truth AND ideals?
Also, how does Reshiram represent truth and Zekrom represent ideals?
There's nothing in their design or characteristics that have this aspect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 02:39:19 No.32657719 Report

Quoted By: >>32657739

>>32657714
You can say the same about every box legend in and after gen 4

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 02:42:46 No.32657739 Report

Quoted By: >>32657812

>>32657719
Despite having lore more shallow than the Regis (in debut), at least Xerneas and Yveltal's life vs death aspect works.
At least the sun and moon are common thematic pairs
At least time and space works because of the whole spacetime philosophy shtick

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 02:50:32 No.32657781 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657714
Truth and ideals can only exist in harmony when there is an entity powerful enough to be the end of both. It's classic Latin theology about the end of man. The end of man is to contemplate the Essence of God, the human intellect being perfected by grace. Thus God is both truth and the ultimate ideal, all in one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 02:53:45 No.32657796 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657714
Favouring a bitter truth over a sweet lie, pertaining to logic rather than emotions, or vice versa? Mqybe that's what they meant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 02:56:56 No.32657812 Report

Quoted By: >>32657824 >>32657834 >>32657841 >>32658355 >>32664939

>>32657739
I was referring to
>Also, how does Reshiram represent truth and Zekrom represent ideals?
because none of the designs (maybe lunala) really demonstrate what they represent. at least kyogre is some fucking fish and groudon a weird godzilla thing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 02:58:25 No.32657824 Report

Quoted By: >>32657826 >>32658016 >>32658752

>>32657812
When Yveltal was first revealed people immediately thought of it as a harbinger of death.
People were reminded of birds of prey and the red/black color schemed bolstered the idea of decay

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 02:59:07 No.32657826 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657824
Maybe I'm just not that imaginative. I didn't think of anything when I saw them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:00:41 No.32657834 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657812
Kyogre and Groudon are representative of the biblical beasts Leviathan and Behemoth though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:01:46 No.32657841 Report

Quoted By: >>32660048

>>32657812
The weather trio represent the behemoth, leviathan, and ziz

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO alchemy_oroboros.jpg, 9KiB, 150x150

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:04:01 No.32657850 Report

Quoted By:

There's also this thing. Ever read Aristotle?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:04:11 No.32657851 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657714
I'm not sure but I want to impregnate both.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:12:05 No.32657899 Report

Quoted By: >>32657923

Zekrom's generator tail represents the ideal power source: clean, cold, electricity.

Reshiram's reactor tail represents the true, effective power source: nuclear energy.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:12:41 No.32657903 Report

Quoted By: >>32657998 >>32658020 >>32658034 >>32658070 >>32658291 >>32658364 >>32658714 >>32663861

>>32657714
Truth = right wing
Ideals = left wing

But I think the representation thing is inversed in this duo, Ideals are beautiful and always asociated with heroes of pure hearth, it should by Reshiram.

And truth is followed for strong cold people and asociated with iron fist leaders, it should be represented by Zekrom.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:17:56 No.32657923 Report

Quoted By: >>32658276

>>32657714
>How the flying fuck are truth and ideals in conflict with one another?
They aren't. They need to be in balance, some people may prioritize one over the other.
>Why couldn't the brothers just pursue truth AND ideals?
Because they were idiot extremists. That's the point.
>Also, how does Reshiram represent truth and Zekrom represent ideals?
>There's nothing in their design or characteristics that have this aspect.
See >>32657899
Also >>32651512 >>32651613 >>32651726

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:29:46 No.32657998 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657903
Nazikrom and Reshicuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:33:17 No.32658016 Report

Quoted By: >>32658027

>>32657824
>people immediately thought of it as a harbinger of death
Could of sworn they thought of it as a harbinger of bacon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:33:58 No.32658020 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657903
>The Black Dragon is Right
Kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:35:00 No.32658027 Report

Quoted By: >>32658223

>>32658016
That as well and about 15 percent were dumb enough to think it represented sound
Remember the Sound and Light type predictions?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:35:38 No.32658034 Report

Quoted By: >>32658065 >>32658234

>>32657903
Except when it comes to policy, most left policy stances and plans are more in line with empircal evidence then right wing ones

nice try though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:40:38 No.32658065 Report

Quoted By: >>32658234 >>32658762 >>32658865

>>32658034

Like how there's 393 genders and how socialism leads to prosperity?

I know what you mean, those ignorant right wingers are completely idiotic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:41:50 No.32658070 Report

Quoted By: >>32658205

>>32657903
>applying American politics to legendaries inspired by the Chinese yin and yang.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 03:42:31 No.32658076 Report

Quoted By:

>yinyang dragon thread leads to political shitposting
Haha Gen 5.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:10:05 No.32658205 Report

Quoted By: >>32658240 >>32658268

>>32658070
For an american based region

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:15:38 No.32658223 Report

Quoted By:

>>32658027
They were kind of right with Light. Fairy, and all.

But only kind of.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:18:47 No.32658234 Report

Quoted By: >>32658865

>>32658034
see >>32658065

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:19:51 No.32658240 Report

Quoted By:

>>32658205
I always wanted to try those growing up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:25:37 No.32658265 Report

Quoted By:

yinyang. the Brothers were supposed to be wrong, the dragons were seperated and that is wrong, they were supposed to be together, truth and ideals shall not be seperated. The black and white dragons clearly represents the Yinyang theme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:26:34 No.32658267 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657714
imagine your dad is sick, like he had a heart attack a short time ago.
now your mom dies in an accident or whatever
if you're for truth you'd tell him she died because he deserves to know
if you're for ideals you'd probably not tell him, at least not now when he is so weak and may die from the shock.
now which one is the most correct? which one respects your dad's humanity?
the one who protects him while hiding the truth or the one who despite the pain it may bring tells him?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:26:45 No.32658268 Report

Quoted By: >>32658286 >>32658307

>>32658205
What? But isn't only castellia city based on anything American? I haven't played gen 5 in years so maybe I just forgot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:28:45 No.32658276 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657923
That's some good analysis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:29:12 No.32658277 Report

Quoted By:

You can change the ideals of the future, but you can't change the current truth. Both must exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:30:45 No.32658286 Report

Quoted By: >>32658391

>>32658268
Yeah, the entire region is kind of like New York, but also squishes other American ideas into it (driftveil and cowboys, Nacrene and detroit (I think? idk,) lentimas and the Hopi and/or Mexico and/or New Mexico I guess, Humilau and Hawai'i or Cali, etc)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:31:35 No.32658291 Report

Quoted By: >>32658523 >>32660068 >>32663630

>>32657903
>Truth = right wing
Ah. Yes. That must be why extreme right-wingers choose to reject evolution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:35:47 No.32658307 Report

Quoted By: >>32658391

>>32658268
Charizard bridge/drifteil bridge is Goldengate bridge
See braviary
route 4 is like nevada
They say the whole region is based on new york but some places take inspiration from the other states in US.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:47:52 No.32658355 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657812
>Kyogre
>a fish
(You)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:48:08 No.32658357 Report

Quoted By:

The Gen 5 main trio seems to have the most abstract basis compared to all the others

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:49:47 No.32658364 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657903
Ideals = right wing
Different, opposing Ideals = left wing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:52:22 No.32658377 Report

Quoted By:

Truth and ideals really aren't parallels. Both can work with each other just as easily as they can work against each other.

To be honest though, the game hardly dwells on the meaning of ether term within the context of the game, so I don't really think it matters in the end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 04:54:24 No.32658391 Report

Quoted By:

>>32658286
>>32658307
And yet (you) have the guts to say that Kalos is a theme park version of France.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 05:16:09 No.32658523 Report

Quoted By:

>>32658291
Ehh, neither extreme is correct. you've got extreme leftists denying the fact that there are only 3 genders. Male, Female, and Attack Helicopter
intersex is a birth defect, and trannys are mental illness

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 06:06:39 No.32658699 Report

Quoted By: >>32663644

>>32657714
Reshiram is red-pilled and Zekrom is blue-pilled, it matches the color of their energies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 06:12:03 No.32658714 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657903
Mate, I don't think you want to go down this path.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 06:25:03 No.32658749 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657714
Why would you not pick truth? Do you want someone to lie to you instead? It's retarded. No one ever thinks of yeah truth and ideals that age old opposing issue. Doesn't make much sense. I made a thread about this way back when. There is some point to it. Think of this.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=AnaQXJmpwM4

They could have explained it better though. It's still dumb

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 06:26:09 No.32658752 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657824
I saw it as a Y

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 06:30:30 No.32658762 Report

Quoted By: >>32663621

>>32658065
>Like how there's 393 genders
He said policy.

>and how socialism leads to prosperity?
This sentence only makes sense if you consider socialism and capitalism as mutually exclusive. Without socialism we wouldn't have schools or roads or a military, and to the extent we did have those things theyed be horrible.

A 100% capitist system is just as bad as a 100% socialist system. All left with wing policies do it attempt to shift the balance so America doesn't have medical system that's the laughing stock of the world.
Also if I could just turn it around
>teach creationism in schools
>act as is climate change isn't happening
>truth

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 07:06:49 No.32658865 Report

Quoted By: >>32661850

>>32658065
>>32658234
Off the top of my head

>Right wing stances that aren't based in evidence
Abortion
Sex education
Climate change
Pretty much anything to do with science and technology
Pretty much fucking everything to do with regulation of buisnsess and corporations somehow leading to better competiton and less fucking over of consumers/the world

>Left wing stances that aren't based in evidence
muh diversity
gun control

I stand by my original statement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 14:09:49 No.32659928 Report

Quoted By:

Reshiram and Zekrom don't actually represent truth or ideals. It's more like they're searching for a hero who represents truth or ideals. The dual nature of the game and how N's searching for truth or ideals depending on the version is supposed to show that truth and ideals are bit that different.

And no, I'm not saying this is some deep shit, just satisfactory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 14:37:14 No.32660048 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657841
I understood that reference and I want to fucking murder you for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 14:41:14 No.32660068 Report

Quoted By:

>>32658291
>Extreme right wingers
Extremists of either kind are bad, extremism is all based on ideals and doesn't seek basis in truth

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 19:34:40 No.32661850 Report

Quoted By: >>32664361 >>32664982

>>32658865
>gun control
If you want to claim sacrificing freedom for safety isn't worth it that's one thing, but it is a statistical fact (with outliers of course) that in general the less guns / better gun regulation in an area the less gun violence in that area.

But gun control is a kind of a pointless debate, since its basically two sides yelling over each other.
>we want reasonable gun regulations
>did you hear that? They want to ban all guns!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 19:51:30 No.32661935 Report

Quoted By:

The simple fact is that there was nowhere to go after the Pokémon of space and time and the God Pokémon. The concept of Reshiram and Zekrom were underwhelming, and many of the Unova Pokémon were shit. The only thing that saved it was more attention to plot and inevitable generational upgrades.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 19:54:07 No.32661950 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657714
I've always felt there was some sort of aspect that was lost in translation during localization. The ideas, words, or concepts they meant to use may not actually exist outside Japan. "Truth and ideals" were probably the best they could come up with at the time.

Me personally, I think the truth bit has more to do with cynicism or nihilism--seeing the world for what it really is. All is absolute. Kinda red pill-esque. While the ideals bit has more to do with ambition, optimism and believing that things can or will get better and there's good in all things. Fate can be defied. Or some shit. The yin and yang thing is what may or may not shit on my explanation, but I can't say for sure because I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know anything about those concepts besides some Chinese cartoon shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 03 Jun 2017 22:20:41 No.32662687 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657714
>How the flying fuck are truth and ideals in conflict with one another?
If you submit to the current truth absolutely, you won't be able to change things for the better; but if you get lost in ideals to the point of becoming blind to reality, then your actions will backfire. Both aspects of life need to be in balance.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Part_Four.png, 32KiB, 1024x1024

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 01:00:59 No.32663621 Report

Quoted By:

>>32658762
>Darwinian evolution
>Global warming
I'm 100% sure that these are true, though I have no proof.
I do have the mainstream media, and they're always right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 01:02:33 No.32663630 Report

Quoted By:

>>32658291
Not the Nazi kind.
But I think that Hitler was an extremist centrist.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 01:05:14 No.32663644 Report

Quoted By:

>>32658699
I'll have to remember this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 01:09:11 No.32663667 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657714
Truth = reality
Ideals = Utopia

Utopia brother was a stubborn philosopher defined by inaction, truth brother was a pessimist realist

Both were gay

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 01:50:38 No.32663861 Report

Quoted By: >>32663952

>>32657903
>Truth = right wing
Good joke.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 02:12:37 No.32663952 Report

Quoted By:

>>32663861
>Truth = left wing

Top cuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 04:01:18 No.32664361 Report

Quoted By:

>>32661850
I didn't mean all of gun control/it as a concept, I meant just how the american left has gone about it in particular.

They don't try to ban guns or regulate them in any way that's correlated with any actual reduction in deaths or injuries, they just go after whatever sounds or seem scaryor ban guns after an attack happened to be done with that model. Like, you can have two weapons that fire the excact same cartridge with the same ammo capacity with the same firing rates and one will be banned and one won't just because the banned one uses sleek plastic/metal fruniture and lookes scarier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 06:18:29 No.32664913 Report

Quoted By:

>>32657714
The idea isn't that they're opposites, it's that you shouldn't have one while excluding the other. I.e. how N came to temper his idealism with the truth that pokemon trainers weren't as evil as he thought, yadda yadda.

Their designs don't really reflect their stated theme so much as the more "Traditional versus Technological improvement" theme in the BW setting, though, no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 06:25:51 No.32664939 Report

Quoted By: >>32664957

>>32657812
I thought Groudon and Kyogre were based on the red oni and blue oni from Japanese folklore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 06:31:34 No.32664957 Report

Quoted By: >>32664994

>>32664939
Jesus Christ, no. Are you retarded?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 06:40:29 No.32664982 Report

Quoted By:

>>32661850
>in general the less guns / better gun regulation in an area the less gun violence in that area.
Except the complete opposite is true.

>we want reasonable gun regulations
>did you hear that? They want to ban all guns!
Nice strawmen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 06:43:50 No.32664994 Report

Quoted By: >>32666424

>>32664957
It's a new meme, familia. He's just pretending to be retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 07:31:29 No.32665119 Report

Quoted By: >>32666476

>>32657714

Truth and Ideals are meant to be cyclical with one fueling the other. However, since they've lost their third aspect, perspective, the two became stark and independent from one another.

Reshiram takes the world as it is without personal interpretation to seek objective truth leading to its flowing, organic design. Zekrom views the world idealistically, believing that the truths one chooses to accept rather than what is considered objective is the means to proceed in life, leading to its sleeker, almost mechanical design.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 15:01:12 No.32666424 Report

Quoted By:

>>32664994
>new

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 15:16:27 No.32666476 Report

Quoted By:

>>32665119
I really like this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 15:59:17 No.32666652 Report

Quoted By:

Ideals conflict with truth because they aren't grounded in reality.
Truth is how things actually are in the real world, ideals represent how things should be in a perfect and impossible (thus false) set of circumstances.

Design wise, Zekrom is an idealized organism, something that looks like it was artificially enhanced until it reached a perfect form. It also looks alien compared to most Pokemon, like something that couldn't possibly come from nature. This reflects the utopic nature of ideals.
Reshiram on the other hand is very organic looking, resembling a "true" Pokemon, and it's light-themed design reflects the pure, unadulterated nature of truth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 16:04:45 No.32666675 Report

Quoted By: >>32667780

Reshiram = truth = good= white = angelic design.

Zekrom = lies = bad = black = machine/weapon design.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 04 Jun 2017 20:03:02 No.32667780 Report

Quoted By:

>>32666675
I don't think Zekrom is supposed to be painted in a negative light, even if it's not perfect.
After all, a lot of official art depicts N as getting Reshiram meaning the main character would get Zekrom and prove him wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F4PiWYc1Rw

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