/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #34030467

[77 / 20 / ?]

1MiB, 550x658, xyz.png

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 16:01:05 No.34030467 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>34030474 >>34030541 >>34030575 >>34031758 >>34031771 >>34031866 >>34032024

>dragged lots of normie attention
>pushes a bulshit fusion transofrmation so GEKKOUGA can stand against Megas.
>a shit shipping bait character becomes even more shit and useless with such cashgrab blatant episodes like "Serena Becomes Satoshi!" and etc.
>Alain is a shit character & rival. Sawyer is shit rival, but an ok character, at least.
>Literally the same Pokemania bulshit.
>"Hurr durr bring serena and grenija back!!!1"
>killed an already shit general called /padt/

What even went right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 16:02:25 No.34030474 Report

Quoted By:

>>34030467
Nothing in the ashnime is right

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 16:04:29 No.34030490 Report

Quoted By: >>34030560 >>34030631

>has a girlfriend
>has character development
>isn't a Mary Sue like XY Ash
>crushed Ash's dreams on a whim
>Made fans freak out

Alain was the best thing about this series.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 16:09:44 No.34030523 Report

Quoted By:

why are you so angry, anon?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 16:12:13 No.34030541 Report

Quoted By: >>34030560 >>34030564

>>34030467
DORAGON

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 16:14:22 No.34030560 Report

Quoted By:

>>34030490
>>34030541
These
Stop complaining about our guy, op you raging fucking faggot

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 16:15:07 No.34030564 Report

Quoted By: >>34031891

>>34030541
BREAKU

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 16:15:40 No.34030575 Report

Quoted By:

>>34030467
Oh, another one of these threads? Cool. I enjoyed drinking your delicious tears.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 16:21:10 No.34030631 Report

Quoted By: >>34031072 >>34031776

>>34030490
>XY Ash was Marty Sue
>Ash
>Marty Sue

You don't know what Marty Sue means, Alangay.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 16:25:39 No.34030650 Report

Quoted By:

It was the most shounen series yet for a franchise that literally screams shounen, with characters that grow stronger through training and battle, a hierarchical system of not only stronger trainers but stronger Pokemon and mysterious lore and legendary events that go beyond the "normal". If you don't like XYZ for following through with these then you never understood what Pokemon was truly about in the first place. No, you don't need to like the anime, but you're strongly mistaken if what you think it did is somehow a misdirection for the franchise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 17:14:55 No.34031072 Report

Quoted By: >>34031808 >>34032041

>>34030631
>Clemont tags along because he admires Ash and wants to be like him
>Serena's with him because she wants his dick
>Sawyer worships him
>Even Alain has his character development changed so Ash is important to him
>Aside from Bonnie, the main group just revolves around Ash almost exclusively
>Pretty much any non-TR character interacting with him just praises him
>Gets a special snowflake Greninja form
>Is hailed as a battling genius constantly

XY Ash was just blatant wish fulfillment so people can live vicariously through him. That's why AmourShipping is as popular as it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 18:41:01 No.34031758 Report

Quoted By:

>>34030467
Fuck off

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 18:42:48 No.34031771 Report

Quoted By: >>34031791

>>34030467
Why are SMtards so extremely butthurt over XY? I'm getting tired of the inferiority complex SMfags feel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 18:43:26 No.34031776 Report

Quoted By:

>>34030631
G-GOD ISN'T REAL MARTY

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 18:45:54 No.34031791 Report

Quoted By:

>>34031771
Not OP but
>implying

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 18:48:06 No.34031808 Report

Quoted By: >>34031818 >>34032002

>>34031072
>guy with 6 regions of experience is treated as he should be
>this is for some reason bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 18:49:48 No.34031818 Report

Quoted By: >>34031824

>>34031808
>guy with 6 regions of experience
>loses the league

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 18:50:40 No.34031824 Report

Quoted By: >>34031889

>>34031818
>loses the league against a guy that OHKO an elite 4's mega evolution ace

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 18:56:07 No.34031866 Report

Quoted By:

>>34030467
STFU and go back to your containment thread

fucking faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 18:58:33 No.34031889 Report

Quoted By: >>34031910 >>34032361

>>34031824
>also lost the league to a retard with a Riolu prior to that
>said retard didn't have a full team
>lost the league every time he entered
>has had six regions of experience

Its why SM doesn't even bother and sent his ass back to school. For the better desu

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 18:58:46 No.34031891 Report

Quoted By:

>>34030564
Gladion needs his own character song done by Nobuhiko Okamoto, but i guess its never gonna happen anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:01:04 No.34031910 Report

Quoted By: >>34032050

>>34031889
Literally the saddest fate for him though. Went from acting like somebody that actually had a tone of experience on his back and looking older to becoming a gag character that's treated like an 8 year old and can't be taken seriously.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:12:44 No.34032002 Report

Quoted By: >>34032088 >>34032122

>>34031808
Aside from the fact that XY went out of its way to avoid mentioning Ash's past accomplishments, the execution here was terrible. Ash is still flawed, and they don't have to have every character worship him.

Look at DP. Ash was skilled then, but they gave him a rival that was just as skilled, beat him a lot, and forced him to grow and learn. He learned things alongside Dawn. In XY, Ash is just praised constantly and everybody licks his ass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:15:13 No.34032024 Report

Quoted By: >>34032133

>>34030467
kalos was best anime

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:18:29 No.34032041 Report

Quoted By:

>>34031072
Bonnie just wanted to get her brother laid without resorting to incest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:19:42 No.34032050 Report

Quoted By: >>34032061

>>34031910
Maybe if the writers gave up their cuckoldry boner for once and let him win a league, this wouldn't happen. Orange Islands was only ever a cocktease to imply that maybe he COULD win the Indigo League after getting humbled before, but of course cuck writers didnt want that. From then on, I knew Ashnime was a lost cause with SM only being interesting because its source material (the game) is just that good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:21:16 No.34032061 Report

Quoted By: >>34032069

>>34032050
>Ashnime
Go back

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:22:39 No.34032069 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032061
No.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:25:13 No.34032088 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032002
>In XY, Ash is just praised constantly and everybody licks his ass.

I will never really understand people like you who makes a bunch of shit up. There are plenty of moments that refutes your """points"""

And the fact is that Ash did have a lot more experience than the people he met and should therefore actually be treated as such. Rehashing a Paul or something similar would have just been bad. I thought it was an interesting take to have one of his rivals have a lot more inexperience them and learning from Ash's own experience. Especially how they tied it in, in the snowbell arch. Alan was overwhelmingly stronger than any rival before Ash and had a deep interest in mega evolution and the bond between trainer and pokemon. Of course he would be extremely curious about Ash-greninja. Alan was handled well as a character, on the rival front I can agree he could have been much better since he curb stomped Ash every time.

I do agree though that some call backs to the older series would have been really nice but it's not like that have been a huge thing in any season really.

Ash wasn't definitely flawed in XY. The whole snowbell arch is just to prove that he isn't the super trainer that everybody thought he was and that he also can be driven into a corner.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:28:59 No.34032122 Report

Quoted By: >>34032440 >>34032477

>>34032002
>In XY, Ash is just praised constantly and everybody licks his ass.

I will never really understand people like you who makes a bunch of shit up. There are plenty of moments that refutes your """points"""

And the fact is that Ash did have a lot more experience than the people he met and should therefore actually be treated as such. Rehashing a Paul or something similar would have just been bad. I thought it was an interesting take to have one of his rivals have a lot more inexperience than Ash and learning from Ash's own experience and developing a strategy based on countering Ash. Especially how they tied it in, in the snowbell arch. Alan was overwhelmingly stronger than any rival before and had a deep interest in mega evolution and the bond between trainer and pokemon. Of course he would be extremely curious about Ash-greninja. Alan was handled well as a character, on the rival front I can agree he could have been much better since he curb stomped Ash every time.

I do agree though that some call backs to the older series would have been really nice but it's not like that have been a huge thing in any season really.

Ash was definitely flawed in XY. The whole snowbell arch is just to prove that he isn't the super trainer that everybody thought he was and that he also can be driven into a corner.

XY had faults but no reason to make shit up and blow everything out of proportion. That's just pathetic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:30:21 No.34032133 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032024
Diamond and Pearl tho

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:32:16 No.34032165 Report

Quoted By: >>34032192

Why do people say XY Ash is a wish fulfillment character? Just because Serena had a crush on him? In that case, every protagonist ever is wish fulfillment because they have an attractive love interest.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:33:56 No.34032179 Report

Quoted By: >>34032240

DP>=XY>OS>AG>>>>SM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>garbage>>>BW

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:35:00 No.34032192 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032165
It's mostly because they're salty about people liking the anime and need some excuse they can repeat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:39:50 No.34032240 Report

Quoted By: >>34032384

>>34032179
>SM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>garbage
Anon

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:54:18 No.34032361 Report

Quoted By:

>>34031889
Clearly cameron is the greatest trainer of all time. I'm sure he could beat tobias and alain combined 12 on 5

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 19:56:06 No.34032384 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032240
SM has Lillie and Gladion so yeah at least its better than garbage.

Id still rather play the game though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:00:45 No.34032424 Report

Quoted By: >>34032453

Why did Alain say "I can't beat him" after all the Flare incident shit? He never lost to him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:02:50 No.34032440 Report

Quoted By: >>34032520

>>34032122
>Rehashing a Paul or something similar would have just been bad.
Because having no meaningless interactions besides bland admiration, which happens constantly, is better?

Sawyer was a great character, and I don't have a problem with him being an Ash fanboy in an of itself; especially because he learns from Ash and adapts it into his personal development. But in a series where everybody else worships Ash (and a series where Clemont and Serena essentially have similar roles), it's ridiculous.

Alan was good, but look at how he became near the end. One of his chief reasons for joining the League was because Ash inspired him. Because he felt alive battling Ash, because he could have fun instead of worrying. Good, except they downplay Manon to make it about Ash.

The Snowbelle arc was forced as hell, and only lasted like 2-3 episodes. It had Ash take on character traits he didn't really have earlier in the saga in order to force some drama and make Sawyer look like a worthwhile rival for the League. And then all is fixed within this small span, and Ash doesn't act any different from the rest of the saga outside of this arc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:04:05 No.34032453 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032424
To make Ash seem special. He thinks Ash is the real winner because he had fun on his journey, he had friends, and yadda yadda power of love. Even though Alain regained most of what he lost by the end and was leading a better life than Ash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:07:23 No.34032477 Report

Quoted By: >>34032553

>>34032122
>The whole snowbell arch is just to prove that he isn't the super trainer that everybody thought he was and that he also can be driven into a corner.
Forgot to respond to this part. You're right in that it shows others he's flawed. Except nothing ever changes and they go back to worshiping him soon after. Serena doesn't change from this, aside from getting mad when he got mad at her for throwing a snowball or whatever. Ash doesn't change.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:12:55 No.34032520 Report

Quoted By: >>34032613

>>34032440
>forced
>was built up in XY&Z23, 25 and 26

Can you at least try to argue instead of using buzzwords? ´

The snowbell arch happened because of Ash's insecurity towards Ash-greninja, a completely new form that made him feel what Greninja did and made him faint several times. This started in XY&Z23 after Ash's battle against Alan when he faints and has the dream about Greinnja leaving. This was further built on in XY&Z25 when he still didn't feel he had any control and fainted once again. XY&Z26 was the biggest built with his match against Shota. He has been overwhelmingly more powerful than Shota in previous battles but now Shota's anti Ash strategy worked great against Ash and he became anxious which is a would be a very natural reactions against this. Than in a desperate attempt to go into Ash-greninja he failed and lost for the first time, yet once again making his insecurity about Ash-greninja grow bigger together with the fact that he lost against Shota for the first time. This is what eventually would lead to what happened in the snowbell arch. Absolutely nothing was forced here and it had a great build up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:13:24 No.34032528 Report

Quoted By:

Did Serena's love for Ash feel too strong to anyone else?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:15:48 No.34032553 Report

Quoted By: >>34032625

>>34032477
>character had a problem
>he was able to solve
>this for some reason means he should be treated differently

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:19:31 No.34032585 Report

Quoted By: >>34032770 >>34033061

I love just how hard XYfags are trying to justify this piece of shit series.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:23:18 No.34032613 Report

Quoted By: >>34032675 >>34032687 >>34032722

>>34032520
So maybe I forgot about how much it was built-up, and I apologize that. But it still doesn't change the fact that it was a random addition put into the story in order to manufacture drama. While I understand Ash getting uppity about Sawyer surpassing him, Ash rarely, if ever displayed these insecurities before or after. Ash and Greninja are supposedly closer, but their relationship is exactly the same afterwords, other than their Ash-Greninja form being perfected. It doesn't tie into issues Ash had during the saga, and is more like a speedbump.

And no one really changes their views on ash. They all worship him. He's still treated as amazing. Ash learned from this arc, but it doesn't mean much because nothing really changes for him. Greninja is the same, but to be fair, the frog's personality after evolving seems to just be "I like Ash" and "I'm a stoic ninja who likes to battle."

Also, it's "arc," not "arch." This isn't to spite you or demean you or anything, I just thought you'd want to know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:25:34 No.34032625 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032553
Not what I mean. None of the other characters do anything but love and worship him before or after this. There's no evolution, even when there easily could/should be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:30:50 No.34032675 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032613
Dude, we get "Ash is randomly overconfident after a winning streak and some master trainer shows up and beats him, teaching him a lesson" episodes pretty much every single series, and they never change how the group dynamic works. This is how the series has always been.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:31:51 No.34032687 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032613
>But it still doesn't change the fact that it was a random addition put into the story in order to manufacture drama.
Blame Tomioka, she force drama everywhere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:34:54 No.34032722 Report

Quoted By: >>34032837

>>34032613
Ash has rarely shown insecurity but insecurity towards a complete new way of evolution there he literally synchronize with Greninja, can feel its pain, makes him faint and is extremely unstable, can't be controlled while also feeling he's not good enough for Greninja since he's the one that can't take it and faints is justifying. This is just further built on with Ash's lose against Shota and him trying to prove himself to him. How is it wrong that this developed into a insecurity of his? It's makes total sense.

Ash and Greninja also had a very notable closer relationship after this arc. The problems was mainly on Ash's side thinking he had to carry the weight of Ash-greninja on his own since he was the one that couldn't handle the evolution. After the arc they're, especially Ash a lot more secure when they battle together and it also made Ash drop the training since the realized that would help him to make Greninja be able to use his full power but a mutual understanding and working together.

I can understand your point about Ash being very well liked from the very beginning and this would be a problem if it was a stand alone series but now Ash have 6 leagues + the battle frontier behind him and a shit tone of experience. It makes sense that he's above everybody else and was a nice change for once. To show him as somebody that actually had developed to the point there he was the most mature and morally right character in the series.

Yea, I'm Norwegian so my English isn't the best and I can't really bother making a spell/grammar check.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:39:54 No.34032770 Report

Quoted By: >>34033061

>>34032585
Its funnier to see SM retards justifying their dull and uneventful series

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:40:28 No.34032776 Report

Quoted By:

Making Ash lose to Alain was so pointless in the end. Amour was pointless too as it had no payoff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 20:45:53 No.34032837 Report

Quoted By: >>34032965 >>34033004

>>34032722
I'm not saying that it's wrong to feel insecure. I'm just saying that it came off poorly due to the execution, and ultimately felt meaningless in the long run. That's why I said it felt like manufactured drama - it just existed to move the plot along, and doesn't really address flaws Ash had before or after, nor have any real meaning.

I mean, they say that Ash and Greninja grew closer and learned to rely on one another, but I don't feel like they conveyed that, other than taking out the weaknesses that balanced out the power-up.

And yes, it makes sense that everybody is nice to him. But it's way too much. It made for extremely shallow relationships, and most of them were samey because of it. And they don't know about Ash's past, just what he is now. And right now, he shows less talent than he did in DP, where he still had more complex relationships with many other characters. XY Ash may be skilled and matured, but that doesn't mean his whole character has to revolve around that.

Compared to BW, you see his relationship with Iris evolve over time, for multiple reasons. In DP and AG, Ash is a mentor figure to May, but they still argue, learn from each other, and come to see each other as equals.

(If it means anything, you conduct yourself well. I thought you were a native English speaker.)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:00:57 No.34032965 Report

Quoted By: >>34033028 >>34033105

>>34032837
In my opinion I thought it was executed really well and helped making Ash-greninja as great as it was and saved it from being an total asspull. It was one of the more """deeper""" arcs this series has seen.

Again, I'm thinking the way people acted towards Ash made a lot of sense. It wasn't like he didn't get scolded or called out on by the others. This happened plenty of time but it's understandable if you forgot it since these events happened mainly in the first half of the series. I think you're exaggerating a bit with how well treated Ash and instead of Ash being developed from the other characters the other characters developed from him. Both Clemont and Serena had major insecurity issues and Ash was the perfect character to help them with this. Clemont and Ash had plenty of interactions and became really good friends imo. Even Clemont going back to his gym to train so he wouldn't disappoint Ash. Serena's dick sucking became too much from time to time but she had set this extremely high bar for Ash and the Snowbell arc really shows her disappointment in what Ash became. Bonnie of course saw Ash as a role model and became more like him as the series progressed. Instead of Ash developing together with the other characters (like with Dawn which imo was the best companion relationship in the series) Ash was the role model and the other characters developed around him. I can understand why people wouldn't like this though. It makes the protagonist seem like a Gary Stu in a way however I thought it was justified in XY since he should rightfully be above everybody else after so much experience.

I also agree that they could have put more time into developing Ash's flaws but it was hardly as severe as you and others put it and in all honesty what happened before the snowbell arc and the arc itself saved a lot of face when it came to this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:05:07 No.34033004 Report

Quoted By: >>34033105

>>34032837
>out the weaknesses that balanced out the power-u
you mean like Korrina managing to stop Lucario from going apeshit?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:07:51 No.34033028 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032965
>Serena's dick sucking became too much from time to time but she had set this extremely high bar for Ash and the Snowbell arc really shows her disappointment in what Ash became

Serena knew Ash had flaws but accepted them for what they were. It wasn't that she had unrealistic expectations for Ash, she loved him and it upset her to see him broken. Everyone knew Ash wasn't perfect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:11:42 No.34033061 Report

Quoted By:

>>34032585
>>34032770
>Ashnime fans figting over which season of their garbage anime is even more garbage.

Yes... YES!!!! Fight each other for MY amusement!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:17:30 No.34033105 Report

Quoted By: >>34033230 >>34033258

>>34032965
I agree that I might have exaggerated a bit, but a the same time, I feel that I'm very right about the characters just funneling their lives around Ash. Clemont and Ash do have a genuine friendship, but it mostly revolves around Clemont wanting to be like Ash, and Ash being impressed with his tech sometimes. Serena saw a side of Ash she didn't like, but she didn't change her opinion and kept on pining over him completely. Bonnie is the sole exception to this, given that she had meaningful interactions with everyone (until the writers forgot Serena's relationship with Bonnie and just made her love Ash.)

Being a role model is great, it makes sense. But when that's the ONLY thing around the relationships, especially when they've previously shown that they can have complex and fulfilling relationships with the dynamic intact, just makes the relationships feel shallow, like they only exist to make Ash look good.

>>34033004
For a form that's super special and already as strong as, if not stronger than Megas, making it even better is not comparable to addressing Mega Evolutions going wild, which is a bad thing that doesn't help anyone.

Ash-Greninja still has its drawbacks, but now it's completely better than Mega Evolution, and its drawbacks don't really mean anything until after the fight, when Ash is tired and might sometimes maybe pass out.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:28:30 No.34033230 Report

Quoted By: >>34033300 >>34033416

>>34033105
I saw it more as Ash existed to help them develop and bounce of him more that existing to make him look good. It really just depends how you look at it. Clemont and Serena had some major development and it was thanks to Ash and their interactions was not only praise but was filed with banter but also was shown to develop over time. It doesn't make it shallow. It's just a different way of developing character. Characters developing together might seem to be the best way to create a good relationship since the impact on both the characters is the biggest but it's hardly the only way. It doesn't make it shallow, it's just a different take on how to develop characters and their relationships with each other.

My real problem was Clemont's and Serena's interaction with each other. That was something shallow and is comparable to Brock and Dawn. I wish that was developed more.

>Ash-Greninja still has its drawbacks, but now it's completely better than Mega Evolution, and its drawbacks don't really mean anything until after the fight, when Ash is tired and might sometimes maybe pass out.

I mean, he still feels the pain and using it his still exhausting for Ash. Those are some major drawbacks no matter how you look at it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:30:39 No.34033258 Report

Quoted By: >>34033416

>>34033105
Going off by anime lore, we don't know how exactly powerful is A-Greninja. We know it's stronger that ye average ninja, we know it can take stand against megas, but there's no definite benchmark.
Of course, it comes with tactical advantage of another POV available, but even after Ash got over his fears and insecurities, it's still taxing and hurtful endeavour, which is weakness unknown to Mega users. And being gradually more and more tired during a fight hampers your capabilities to plan, slows down your reaction times and generally isn't great. Please don't ignore that.

Both collapsing over staggering exertion and megas going feral are problems of people new to both processes, and in both cases is hindrance that stops you from fully utilizing potential of your pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:33:58 No.34033300 Report

Quoted By:

>>34033230

It's kinda tough to develop Clemont and Serena when they're too focused on sucking Ash's dick half the time. Oh wait, why didn't the writers make Clemont and Serena BFFs who secretly talk about Ash when he's not around?

Failed opportunity.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:34:49 No.34033309 Report

Quoted By: >>34033332 >>34033532 >>34033556

>it's an anime thread with good discussion and valid points from both sides

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:36:37 No.34033332 Report

Quoted By: >>34033359

>>34033309
>/padt/ could be like this if shitposters didn't clog up the threads and kill any good vibes

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:39:31 No.34033359 Report

Quoted By:

>>34033332
It used to be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:40:53 No.34033376 Report

Quoted By:

Serena's crush was a mistake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:43:52 No.34033416 Report

Quoted By: >>34033532 >>34033543

>>34033230
Clemont and Serena had development, but that's on their own time. Their relationships with Ash were still all about their love for him. And it IS shallow that Ash doesn't grow or change because of it - it's like the friendships had no impact on him. And again, it makes it look like they largely existed to make Ash look amazing. This also makes Ash look shallow, because he's not getting any development and is simply praised and loved.

I wouldn't say that this take is equal to Ash and Dawn's treatment. It's different, yeah, but it makes for less memorable friendships and doesn't make for compelling stories on Ash's part.

>>34033258
Ash-Greninja had a ton of fanfare and rprophecies, was able to hurt Diantha's Gardevoir, always put up a good fight, and was notable enough for the Zygarde to seek its aid. The games even accounted for this by giving Ash-Greninja a bigger boost than Megas get. I think it's pretty clear that they intended Ash-Greninja to be more special and powerful, even if we don't know the exact benchmark.

You guys are right about the exhaustion part. On paper, it sounds like a major drawback. But Ash doesn't plan ahead - he just reacts. And while his reaction time is slowed, and he grows more tired and weak, it doesn't really mean anything because it doesn't really hold him back by the time the League shows up. I felt like it didn't hinder his matches or him post-Snowbelle - just serving to be a cool gimmick that doesn't deliver on drawbacks it's supposed to have.

But you guys are right. The form is more balanced than I thought, and I was wrong. The execution didn't work well, but it's still a valid point that Ash had to work through.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:53:35 No.34033532 Report

Quoted By: >>34033828

>>34033309
It's because there are people who care for it.
We know it's kids show, that it's bound to teeter forever on 'at best mediocre' line, we should know better that any we like season will still end up in gut punch, and that seasons we for some reason despise aren't gonna end happy either, but we aren't stopping now. There are people who care in same way for Samurai Jack, for Duck Tales, for Ed Edd 'n Eddy, for whatever was part of their childhood. Because it was, is, and will be somewhat close to them. That's why we are still here, waiting for SM to show what's it's worth. Waiting in hope, probably vain, that at some point Ash will get his closure, and we'll be able to find some relief in that.

>>34033416
>Ash-Greninja had a ton of fanfare and rprophecies, was able to hurt Diantha's Gardevoir, always put up a good fight, and was notable enough for the Zygarde to seek its aid.

In all honesty I believe that A-Greninja could be a remnant of Pokemon Z, and that other two starters would receive similar boost. But that's a digression.

There was Olympia, who could probably see the future events clearly, and ninjas, who expected another occurrence of legendary event of their past. Well, it's kinda a fanfare, but that legenborbs movie, and, eh, Lucario movies had that fanfare kinda kicked up harder, didn't they. Zygarde seeking it's help was Tobias-tier McGuffin to take away this power and thus I expect Ash to be deprived of Z-ring and any recollection of it

Also Ash has some planning. Especially in XY he thought before battles, as early as against Grant and Viola. How much they had to drop 'muh tiresome' in league is unknown to me, but yeah, league was rather poorly written.
Showing how much Ash's fights, two? tf m8?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO XY&Z45.png, 2MiB, 637x2203

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:54:12 No.34033543 Report

Quoted By: >>34033570 >>34033828

>>34033416
I fail to see your point. Ash did have development, but after so many regions he doesn't need much more development. Characters developing from a role model is not bad in the slightest and calling is love is an exaggeration. Admiring and loving somebody are two completely different things. Admiring wants you to make yourself be this person which both Clemont and Serena's development was based on. Ash being the actual role model for once doesn't mean all the character where there just so he could look better. It was used as a tool to help them develop. Their friendship was hardly shallow either. They had lots of different interactions, were placed in a lot of different situation and in the end really were a tight group. The last episodes really shows what Ash did for them but also how much they meant for Ash. Especially the last episode. It showed genuine sadness over their split up but also understanding for why it must happen which is what should be expected from the Ash we saw in XY. Ash's main development was with Greninja and his rivals and I think they did a fine job with that. I genuinely believe the XY group were one of the tightest and least shallow in the series as a whole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:55:11 No.34033556 Report

Quoted By: >>34033606

>>34033309
We could have this for every anime thread. We could have this for nearly every kind of thread. We just need to forsake the starter wars, the trolling, the ill-will towards others. It's not too late for /vp/ to be redeemed.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO XY&Z28.png, 1MiB, 639x2199

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 21:56:33 No.34033570 Report

Quoted By:

>>34033543
As an example here's a parallel that showed how Ash's used his development to help Serena

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 22:00:16 No.34033606 Report

Quoted By:

>>34033556
It's not going to happen as long as /vp/ is completely overrun with kids that hate the anime and seemingly make it their life's goal to shit up any attempt at discussing it and mods just sit by and let it happen. It's a fucking miracle this thread isn't drowning in shitposts at the moment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 22:17:01 No.34033828 Report

Quoted By: >>34033857 >>34033902 >>34033943

>>34033543
>After so many regions
That doesn't matter if he's not applying what he learned, or showing that those journeys had an affect on him outside of being skilled and strong. He learned a lot from those journeys beyond battling.

And as I said, the love and admiration they have for Ash isn't the problem. It's that the relationships didn't evolve outside of those roles. It's that they felt like they meant nothing for Ash. It's that the relationships were plot devices to move other characters forward and make Ash look good, without holding him to the same standards as others.

The other characters grew, I agree and said this before. But the relationships didn't, Ash was stagnant because of it, and group dynamics outside of Ash were extremely wonky. That, in my opinion, hurt the relationships.

Compare Ash's relationship with Iris. They picked on each other, got on each other's nerves, and Iris regularly belittled Ash. But Ash soon got over her BS and stopped responding, except in small moments where she goes too far. Iris grows to respect him as a trainer and a person (as much as Iris can respect someone), learns to open up to him, and their relationship becomes a lot healthier. Iris, like Serena, developed from the relationship. But their relationship also grew and evolved over time.

>>34033532
Don't you ever, EVER accuse me of caring about this show. I merely hate-watch it because my life is so devoid of happiness and light, the anger I feel is the only thing that reminds me that I'm human. I merely pay attention to the intricacies and developments because I have nothing else to do but be angry and salty all the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 22:19:14 No.34033857 Report

Quoted By: >>34033993

>>34033828
>Don't you ever, EVER accuse me of caring about this show. I merely hate-watch it because my life is so devoid of happiness and light, the anger I feel is the only thing that reminds me that I'm human. I merely pay attention to the intricacies and developments because I have nothing else to do but be angry and salty all the time.
>don't accuse me of A because I am doing something just because !AbsolutelyNotAAtAll lets me feel something
Shh, anon, it's okay, we all have flaws.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO rainbatman.gif, 352KiB, 499x289

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 22:22:07 No.34033902 Report

Quoted By: >>34033993

>>34033828
In all honesty I don't think we will come to any agreement here. We simply look at it completely differently.

>I merely hate-watch it because my life is so devoid of happiness and light, the anger I feel is the only thing that reminds me that I'm human. I merely pay attention to the intricacies and developments because I have nothing else to do but be angry and salty all the time.

Jesus anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 22:25:33 No.34033941 Report

Quoted By:

>people that enjoyed XY and wish SM was better genuinely care about the show and want it to be enjoyable
>people that complain about XY and its characters are self-hating and neither like nor care about the show as a whole
Things are staring to make kind of sense now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 22:25:34 No.34033943 Report

Quoted By: >>34033993

>>34033828
I wouldn't use Ash and Iris' relationship as a good example. They had a really weak dynamic that was poorly copied from Ash/Misty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Nov 2017 22:29:33 No.34033993 Report

Quoted By:

>>34033857
>>34033902
I'm joking, I'm joking. Except for the part about my life being a void of nothingness, a pit in which good things are thrown into and destroyed, leaving everyone miserable and wondering why they even bothered trying.

>>34033943
It's recycled, but there's still more in-depth and less one-sided than Ash and Serena's relationship, which was my point. And as flawed as it was, they feel like real friends with a mutually-beneficial relationship.

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