/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #35011784

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Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 22:57:05 No.35011784 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>35011790 >>35011817 >>35011922 >>35011928 >>35011939 >>35012005 >>35012457 >>35012717 >>35013132 >>35013350 >>35015544 >>35016506 >>35016637 >>35017089

>Truant
>Slow Start
>Defeatist
>Wimp Out/Emergency Exit

Which of these is truly the worst? Not just on their respective Pokemon, but overall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 22:58:04 No.35011790 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011784
definitely truant

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:00:27 No.35011815 Report

Quoted By:

poll

https://www.strawpoll.me/15172897

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:00:40 No.35011817 Report

Quoted By: >>35017112

>>35011784
Truant is the worst, but Emergency Exit fucking suuuuuucks because Golisopod is so slow. If it procd at the end of the turnout wouldnt even be in this discussion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:01:25 No.35011826 Report

Quoted By:

Truant, no question

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:05:24 No.35011862 Report

Quoted By: >>35011907 >>35011913 >>35011999 >>35012802

Truant can't be worked around
You can try to survive during Slow Start (sub toxic whatever), but it cripples your offensive moves
There's always the option for recovery with Defeatist
And Wimp Out/Emergency Exit is only hot garbage if they force you to switch before you make your move

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:10:00 No.35011907 Report

Quoted By: >>35015481

>>35011862
>Truant can't be worked around
Well technically it can be with Skill Swap or Mummy, but that's pretty specific.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:10:59 No.35011912 Report

Quoted By:

All of these are good and make the pokemon they're on extremely unique. If more pokemon had abilities as unique as those 4, the entire roster would be better off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:11:08 No.35011913 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011862
Looks like a wash for Truant then.

I don't think theres a single Pokemon that can function with Emergency Exit. Even if you have recovery, its just going to activate again, and you're back at square one. At least with Slow Start and Defeatist, there are Pokemon that don't care about losing those stats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:12:01 No.35011922 Report

Quoted By: >>35013220

>>35011784
Slow Start ruined a legendary Pokemon forever. Truant only ruined Slaking, and no one gives a shit about Slaking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:13:10 No.35011928 Report

Quoted By: >>35011946 >>35011963 >>35011974 >>35012455 >>35012712

>>35011784
Why the fuck does Emergency Exit exist? Golisopod and Wimpod have the same fucking ability only it’s renamed in Golisopod’s case. At that point why even give it such a shitty ability?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:14:32 No.35011939 Report

Quoted By: >>35012600

>>35011784
Slow Start.

At least you can attack once with Truant and then switch out. You can't play your way around Slow Start, pretty much no matter what.
Deafeatist/Wimp Out/Emergency Exit require you to take damage to suffer the drawback, so they're playable around.

Hypothetically broken enough mons can decently play around everything but Slow Start by either not taking damage or utilizing strategies that synergize with switching more often (U-Turn, regenerator mons on team). Only a Pokemon like Reuniclus could survive an ability like Slow Start, and Pokemon that are slow, bulky attackers usually heavily rely on strong abilities to patch up their lack of mixed offenses and speed. The ones that don't end up in the trash can, so Slow Start even neuters most of those.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:15:22 No.35011946 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011928
It gets worse when you notice that the pre-made sets for Golisopod in Battle Tree/Agency make it hold an Eject Button

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:15:24 No.35011947 Report

Quoted By:

you can at least meme on battle facility AIs with a truant durant

slow start just fucks regigigas. he's half a pokémon for five turns, assuming he even survives that long

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:16:48 No.35011963 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011928
Probably the idea was that, since Golisopod has several priority options and great bulk, it could eek out some damage and then immediately let you switch to something more suitable for the situation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:18:10 No.35011973 Report

Quoted By:

I personally hate Defeatist as Archeops is my favourite fossilmon. As soon as you hit half hp it becomes so useless. For some odd reason I can tolerate Truant as I love Slaking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:18:21 No.35011974 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011928
because Golisopod isn't a wimp, he's a strong, courageous pokemon who is fond of 'tactical retreats'. No wimp here, no sir

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:20:56 No.35011999 Report

Quoted By: >>35012038 >>35012122 >>35012710

>>35011862
>Truant can't be worked around
Just switch out after you attack.

Slow Start, meanwhile, you not only have to survive 5 turns but it resets if you switch out

The people saying that Truant is the worst probably never used Slaking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:22:07 No.35012005 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011784
>Traunt now negates recharge in addition to current effects
So now you can spam CB Giga Impact with Slaking and switch out instead of being forced to not do anything for a turn. Yes/no?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:27:42 No.35012038 Report

Quoted By: >>35012382

>>35011999
>The people saying that Truant is the worst probably never used Slaking.
It also matters that Slaking has largely stayed stagnant in terms of how much damage it can do in one turn, when now we have Pokemon that can match or surpass it without the gimmicky nonsense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:38:38 No.35012120 Report

Quoted By:

>Truant
>protect every other turn

>Slow Start
Five turns is painfully long. One toxic and it's gg.

>Defeatist
I'm biased bc i love Archeops so much. It's taking at from 140 to 70 at half health, so give him a Sitrus berry and acrobatics. Not awful, he even gets roost, but it makes him basically nonviable competitively.

>EE
I have no experience with it, but seems annoying at the very least.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:38:45 No.35012122 Report

Quoted By: >>35012382

>>35011999
Slow Start only haves atk and spd. If you put it on a defensive mon with good special attack, it would be functionally the same. Truant would be shit every single time you need something to stay in more than one turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Feb 2018 23:43:03 No.35012150 Report

Quoted By:

Also w/ SS you can at least use toxic, protect, confuse ray, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:10:57 No.35012382 Report

Quoted By: >>35012426

>>35012122
>>35012038
Slaking's damage power is higher than gen 6's Kangaskhan. In PU, not much can take a hit from it after SR.

With a good defensive backing, it's still more effective than a defensive normal type without recovery imo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:16:11 No.35012426 Report

Quoted By: >>35012670

>>35012382
slaking also has a godly movepool to work with unlike gigas

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:19:49 No.35012455 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011928
that's the point

lots of Pokemon have abilities that are the same but with different names to fit better. You can't exactly give Passimian Power of Alchemy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:20:06 No.35012457 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011784
Truant. Literally do nothing for 50% of the battle is a pretty big drawback.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:38:50 No.35012600 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011939
>>35011939
I thought you can baton pass for the slow start denial.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:40:14 No.35012617 Report

Quoted By:

not Truant

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:40:21 No.35012620 Report

Quoted By:

Truant durant has meme use for battle facilities

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:46:05 No.35012670 Report

Quoted By: >>35012740 >>35012981

>>35012426
Their movepools are pretty much the same, except one gets Gunk Shot while the other gets Knock Off

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:51:19 No.35012710 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011999
>The people saying that Truant is the worst probably never used Slaking.
>He doesn’t use Truant Durant

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:51:32 No.35012712 Report

Quoted By: >>35012733

>>35011928
>they missed the opportunity to make emergency exit Tactical Retreat and be identical to wimp out except it activates AFTER you attack
I am forever mad

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:52:57 No.35012717 Report

Quoted By: >>35012750

>>35011784
i'd say slow start, a truant mon can at least dish out one huge attack before being useless. Slow start just makes you completely useless for 5 turns on a mon with no recovery beyond leftovers. Not to mention they shit on Regigigas for absolutely no reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:54:53 No.35012733 Report

Quoted By:

>>35012712
I'm still holding out for exactly that buff next game

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:55:21 No.35012740 Report

Quoted By: >>35012750

>>35012670
gigas is lacking recovery, taunt, a way to boost its stats, sucker punch, encore, some other small things like play rough and ice beam

otherwise... yeah, they're more similar than I thought, just used its randoms set so often I thought it didn't have the punches or much else

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 00:56:16 No.35012750 Report

Quoted By:

>>35012717
>>35012740
>he doesnt use z-psych up regigigas

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:01:40 No.35012802 Report

Quoted By: >>35012926

>>35011862

Does regigigas learn sub?

But anyway, truant can be worked around, slaking is fortunately fast, so it makes a good revenge killer, and if you aren't that threatened by the opponent, then might as well get the giga impact if you are losing a turn anyways.

Also slaking is daddy as fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:10:22 No.35012889 Report

Quoted By:

Slow start is pretty bad, but at least it still does what you want.
Truant is literally giving your opponent two turns for every one of yours.
This is doubly bad if it gets poisoned/toxic and burn just kills the gimmick.

It's interesting, but another one of those things they didn't put much thought into before shoving it out the door.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:14:32 No.35012926 Report

Quoted By: >>35012961 >>35013024

>>35012802
It helps that Slaking has stats that exceed most box legendaries though.
Pretty sure that a Slaking with either Slow Start, Wimp Out/Emergency Exit or Defeatist would definitely outperform one with Truant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:17:56 No.35012961 Report

Quoted By: >>35013156

>>35012926
box legendaries have 680 bst, with only 3 exceptions, it's tied with groudon and kyogre at 670 and only base kyurem is weaker at 660

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:20:36 No.35012981 Report

Quoted By:

>>35012670
slaking with slow start could actually function using its special movepool or stalling the timer out since it has a bunch of good support moves like taunt, encore, slack off and protect

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:26:53 No.35013024 Report

Quoted By: >>35013144 >>35013170 >>35017065

>>35012926

>Slow start
Really? I feel like it would just get set up on

>defeatist
for sure, defeatist still lets you sweep, and without setting up

>emergency exit
Is actually a potentially really good ability if you are fast. Because you can attack and then get a free switch. Being slow means there is a good chance that golisopod will never get to attack unless it wastes its good attack stat on weak priority moves. Being weak to SR doesn't help

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:38:20 No.35013132 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011784
EE. Since you get to to a poibt where you die amd can't do shit
>3 Layers of spikes do 24%
>SR do 25%
>Any attack that does more than 1% will spend it out and at 49~% you die

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:39:51 No.35013144 Report

Quoted By: >>35017257

>>35013024
one thing Slaking has over Regigigas is that it has stall moves like Yawn and Slack Off

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:40:52 No.35013156 Report

Quoted By:

>>35012961
Oh woops, you're right - for some reason I thought it had 690

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:42:49 No.35013170 Report

Quoted By:

>>35013024
slaking has recovery, a lot of anti setup like encore, taunt, and yawn and a massive movepool to hit specific threats on both the physical and special side
it can also raise its attack with hone claws or work up unlike regigigas

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:47:17 No.35013220 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011922
No one gives a shit about Slaking because of Truant, dingus.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 01:59:44 No.35013350 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011784
Slow Start by a big margin. 5 turns of worthless is too much. Maybe if double your defense or it gave some boost but as is now...
>Truant
IT has some me uses at least, for catching and cucking the AI so there is that.
>Emergency Exit
This is close to being really good and it can open some nice plays and synergies
>Defeatist
This one has no good qualities but is doesn't cripple from the start

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 03:05:31 No.35013842 Report

Quoted By: >>35013874

Truant should have some small upside to make up for the massive downside.
Like, if you recover 25% hp on the loafing around turn. Loafing around is basically slacking off which is a healing move anyway so the flavour fits.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 03:09:08 No.35013874 Report

Quoted By:

>>35013842
the upside is the +250 bst

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 05:27:18 No.35014915 Report

Quoted By: >>35014982 >>35015031 >>35015158 >>35015560 >>35015573 >>35017065

EE would be fine on a fast but frail mon that wants to change out anyway, particularly if it doesn't have U-Turn or Volt Switch.

Flare Blitz into EE range then getting a free switch would be kinda nice for several mons, especially if you can keep entry hazards cleared.

You can pass Truant along to your opponents and it wouldn't be the worst on a super defensive mon looking to PP stall.

You can avoid Defeatist by not taking damage. Easier said than done, sure. However, you can minimize it's impact through play.

Slow Start fucks everything over.

New challenge:
Fix these abilities without making them completely broken.

Truant: Heals 1/16th total health each turn the pokemon is loafing around. This stacks with Leftovers, Aqua Ring, and Leech Seed.

Slow Start: Each turn one of the reduced stats is "unlocked" at random, returning it to the full stat value.

Defeatist: Activates at 25% health, rather than at 50%.

EE: Will only activate after the user makes a move.

WO: Activates at 50% health and prevents further damage. (So, basically a better version of Sturdy that saves 50% of your health and provides a free switch out). Replacement is chosen at random. Ability cannot trigger if no switch is available.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 05:40:08 No.35014982 Report

Quoted By: >>35015037

>>35014915
Slow Start now only requires you to wait 1 per battle
The pokemon starts with Attack and Speed halved, and every turn it goes up equally until it's the base stats
Is Regigigas not Uber?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 05:49:03 No.35015031 Report

Quoted By:

>>35014915
>You can pass Truant along to your opponents and it wouldn't be the worst on a super defensive mon looking to PP stall.
There are no upsides to truant
>B-but entrainment
a shitty gimmick that's just worse in all ways to slapping a phasing move onto something
and PP stalling? fuck no, nothing defensive would ever want truant because they need their action economy, more so than just about any other archetype, which truant just pisses away

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 05:50:04 No.35015037 Report

Quoted By: >>35015071

>>35014982
Regigigas and slaking are PU shitters

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 05:55:03 No.35015071 Report

Quoted By:

>>35015037
wow

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 06:08:58 No.35015158 Report

Quoted By:

just make the timer not reset upon switching out and gigas is fixed 'enough', maybe shorten it to three turns
there is no way to fix truant without making it broken, it's just too extreme an ability
defeatist activates at 25% or less hp
EE activates after attacking

>>35014915
Slow start only halves attack and speed

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 06:29:54 No.35015293 Report

Quoted By: >>35015304 >>35015552 >>35015560

Traunt now only stops the pokemon from direct attacking every other turn. The first turn you might use an attack like Body Slam, and the next you can only use moves like Toxic, Slack Off, Bulk up etc. Would this be enough to make Slaking a little less painful to use while still limiting its choices? Mind you because of this it still wouldnt be able to use things like Choice items or Assault Vest without struggling every other turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 06:30:59 No.35015304 Report

Quoted By: >>35015560

>>35015293
oh wait, forgot this, yeah that works well enough

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 07:18:53 No.35015481 Report

Quoted By: >>35015521

>>35011907
can skill swap or mummy counter the others as well?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 07:29:07 No.35015521 Report

Quoted By: >>35015533

>>35015481
yes, they can

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 07:33:02 No.35015533 Report

Quoted By: >>35015542

>>35015521
i mean, if you skill swap slow start would you immediatly get your original stats?

well, it means i can try more pokeemons with emergency exit coffagrius + pursuit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 07:36:07 No.35015542 Report

Quoted By:

>>35015533
Yes, the modified stats are returned to normal the instant it loses its ability

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 07:37:24 No.35015544 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011784
I'd say Truant. WO/EE is just quirky enough that it has some situational uses. Defeatist is shit, but at least you don't lose a whole damn turn. Slow Start is also bad, but again, at least you move every turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 07:39:59 No.35015552 Report

Quoted By: >>35015557 >>35015560

>>35015293
I checked Bulba, Serebii, and Database and none of them have info on this. You sure about that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 07:41:09 No.35015557 Report

Quoted By:

>>35015552
anon, that anon posted that as a buff to truant

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 07:41:31 No.35015560 Report

Quoted By:

>>35015304
>>35015552

Pretty certain that >>35015293 was only responding to the challenge from >>35014915

Truant still works as always, you can only act every other turn, no exceptions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 07:45:12 No.35015573 Report

Quoted By:

>>35014915
>EE: Will only activate after the user makes a move.

I like this a lot. The way EE works now is why I can't use a Golisopod in-game. Gets on my freaking nerves. The check should definitely be at the end of the turn rather than immediate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 11:09:14 No.35016506 Report

Quoted By: >>35016587 >>35017065

>>35011784
Don't forget zen mode & similar variations

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 11:25:18 No.35016587 Report

Quoted By: >>35016602

>>35016506
Zen Mode isn't nearly as awful as the others.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 11:28:43 No.35016602 Report

Quoted By: >>35016613

>>35016587
Maybe not entirely close to their tier, but it's still bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 11:31:37 No.35016613 Report

Quoted By:

>>35016602
Emergency Exit is better than Zen Mode

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 11:36:06 No.35016637 Report

Quoted By: >>35017099

>>35011784
truant should allow for use of slack off, yawn, rest, refresh and curse on the loafing around turn

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 13:31:59 No.35017065 Report

Quoted By:

>>35014915
>>35013024
Emergency Exit

>will not activate on recoil damage or self inflicted harm
>will not activate if brought to under 50% hp by a sheer force attack
>will not activate by weather damage
>will only activate after the last hit of a multihit move

With this in mind, there are no current Pokemon that would be good with EE, at best there may be few that could work around it

>>35016506
Zen Mode is hard coded to Darmanitan. Even if it weren't, the Zen Mode stat changes are so extreme they would probably break anything with Trick Room and a half-decent special movepool. Flower Gift was actually useful at some point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 13:37:12 No.35017089 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011784
Truant, hard countered by one of the most common moves in the game on almost every single team

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 13:39:44 No.35017099 Report

Quoted By:

>>35016637
>status moves allowed during truant
Durant would be king

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 13:44:33 No.35017112 Report

Quoted By:

>>35011817
That's why you use priority moves like First Impression, Sucker Punch, and Aqua Jet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 13:57:45 No.35017173 Report

Quoted By:

Truant: You can only use offensive moves while awake, but only non-damaging moves while loafing around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 14:15:35 No.35017257 Report

Quoted By:

>>35013144
>anything that isn't an attacking move is stall
die

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 14:25:48 No.35017306 Report

Quoted By: >>35017608 >>35018909

I'm just waiting for Suppressite or whatever to actually be real. By that I mean an item that prevents the user's ability from activating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 15:22:12 No.35017608 Report

Quoted By:

>>35017306
It'll be dynamite with trick

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 19:25:52 No.35018909 Report

Quoted By: >>35018973

>>35017306
does that item work with klutz?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 19:35:43 No.35018973 Report

Quoted By:

>>35018909
the item would have to suppress the ability before the ability suppresses the item

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Mar 2018 20:14:39 No.35019252 Report

Quoted By:

I like hindering abilities a someone who plays in the lower tiers I appreciate the extra challenge

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