/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #35584535

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Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 05:31:50 No.35584535 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>35584544 >>35584558 >>35584561 >>35584566 >>35584850 >>35584942 >>35585024 >>35587049

>it's okay the games are shit because they are for children
>man, the games are shitty because they keep appealing to nostalgic gen wunners who are at least like 25 years old

Which one is it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 05:33:31 No.35584544 Report

Quoted By: >>35585263 >>35587055

>>35584535
It's both.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 05:34:15 No.35584551 Report

Quoted By:

>implying 25 year olds today aren't just big children

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 05:35:13 No.35584558 Report

Quoted By: >>35587198 >>35587262

>>35584535
The games are (sadly) made for children and now include gen 1 pandering to keep the ever-dwindling older fanbase. Both make the games shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 05:35:36 No.35584561 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584535
Both

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 05:36:06 No.35584566 Report

Quoted By: >>35584610

>>35584535

>implying a franchise must age along with its audience

Man, when are they gonna give guns to fucking sesame street?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 05:43:19 No.35584610 Report

Quoted By: >>35584646

>>35584566

But here's the retarded argument, if pokemon refuses to grow with its audience, why keep gen 1 pandering

And saying "pokemon needs guns/blood/violence" to appeal to an older audience is a strawman that I have to address in every thread. Nobody wants that shit, older audiences just want a series that doesn't talk down to you with tutorials, cutscenes with zero substance, and have cringe inducing themes and dialogue about "friendship and teamwork." Not even 6 year olds like that shit. When I was a kid, I liked the jerk rival, he didn't have to carry a gun around and smoke crack to be cool, but he didn't dance around and constantly smile and say how much fun we had when I curbstomped him

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 05:49:48 No.35584646 Report

Quoted By: >>35584767 >>35584818

>>35584610
Pokémon doesnt grow with its audience, it grows with the social standard

If the appeal of younger kids nowadays is to have cheesy themes, power of friendship bs and easy games then GF will use that as the base for the newer games.

Stupid? Probably for you and me, but that is because we learned differently

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:08:29 No.35584767 Report

Quoted By: >>35584801 >>35585268

>>35584646
But then that goes back to what OP is saying. Why constantly reference the original games? Yeah, kids probably know about Pikachu, but just mentioning Kanto or seeing a Charizard isn't going to appeal to them any more than mentioning Hoenn and seeing a Salamence.

They weren't around for either, so why pander?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:14:04 No.35584801 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584767
That’s totally the pokemon company’s fault. At least that is my opinion.
I’m tired of seeing kanto again and again, but the company’s logic might be different

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:16:48 No.35584818 Report

Quoted By: >>35584861 >>35584884

>>35584646
>If the appeal of younger kids nowadays is to have cheesy themes, power of friendship bs

But it's not. That's what out of touch adults think kids want. Kids want call of duty, and fortnite. Kids want to be cool and like adult like things. Even a mediocre marketer could tell you not to show kids in commercials enjoying a product (unless it's literally baby toys) because kids think it's cooler to see adults enjoying products. Hence why the wii u had awful marketing with most of the commercials showing stupid kids jumping around with the wii u, and then they turned around and haven't showed a single kid playing a switch in marketing. Kids want to grow up, THAT'S what kids think is cool

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:21:01 No.35584850 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584535
Its both.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:22:11 No.35584861 Report

Quoted By: >>35584882 >>35584925

>>35584818
Isn’t that what the kids in the 90s and 80s wanted too?
But then we are going into the same problem again. Pokemon games will never have blood, death or guns. That’s just the way it is

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:25:20 No.35584882 Report

Quoted By: >>35584925

>>35584861
>Isn’t that what the kids in the 90s and 80s wanted too?

It's what kids always wanted. They don't like being talked down to, they aren't so stupid they actually eat that shit about "wow, the power of friendship is the strongest power there is, if we work together we can do anything." Did you like that shit?

>Pokemon games will never have blood, death or guns. That’s just the way it is

I didn't say that, just that stop with the super happy go lucky sanitized barney shit. NOBODY likes that shit, it is merely tolerated

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:25:24 No.35584884 Report

Quoted By: >>35584908 >>35584941

>>35584818
In America that's definitely true, but pokemon is mainly from a nip perspective where themes about the power of friendship and other recycled shounen crap is what they live off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:28:37 No.35584908 Report

Quoted By: >>35584967

>>35584884
So how have these franchises managed to take off in the west then? Its more how its packaged than what themes it actually contains. Like Naruto has those themes, but it also has edgy ninja shit so kids and teenagers ate it up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:31:34 No.35584925 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584861
>>35584882
Part of the issue with that is apart from the stereotypical edge in an attempt to be mature, it seems harder for pokemon to be more adult without bogging the game down with even more story and text.

To me, the only time I've seen both the power of friendship thing and a more mature story pulled off is Colosseum

>Playing an older character
>Works for an evil team, but doesn't have a lot of exposition about his past there
>First act is to blow up a building and steal shit
>Has an Umbreon and Espeon, showing that if nothing else, he cares for his pokemon
>Entire game is about giving therapy to pokemon used for pitfighting
>Reflected in mechanics because Shadow pokemon are pretty shit compared to purified ones

And all of that without needing a heavy-handed rant every 5 minutes about how you're such good friends with everyone and together you can do anything and blah blah blah

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:33:28 No.35584941 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584884

I'd say it's universal. Usually only the corniest shonen shit goes full "power of friendship" and determination to protect their friends will usually be contrasted with darker themes, even if it's "I need to resort to some violent ends to succeed."

When the whole game is happy go lucky, it makes it seem really substanceless and shallow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:33:30 No.35584942 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584535
Lel you all don't know anything of the new games and you hate them, ok only hate for those names...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:36:03 No.35584967 Report

Quoted By: >>35585080

>>35584908
Because it's fun? I'm just saying that the whole friendship solves everything bullshit gets tired after the 100th time. Granted I was never into Naruto or 99% of shonen period.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:38:41 No.35584986 Report

Quoted By:

Just have NORMAL dialogue. Have well written plots without overbearing themes. I grew up loving SUper Mario RPG/Paper mario games. They appeal to adults because they aren't retardedly saccharine and they have UNIVERSAL appeal without having guns and sex. Plenty of other games do this, successfully, why do people think "appeal to kids" means hire low budget writers from care bares or something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:43:51 No.35585024 Report

Quoted By: >>35585053 >>35585081

>>35584535
Neither, what people really mean is:

>the games now suck because they aren't what I want

No other fanbase on the fucking planet gets away with thinking that they can micromanage what they want out of upcoming games to this degree, it's almost unreal.

>so it definitely has to take place in a new region, but the region has to be good. it has to be non-linear, but not TOO non-linear or else it'll remind me of kanto.
>also there needs to be at least 150 new Pokemon but they better all have designs i like and they better be good competitively.
>and there better not be any kanto pandering. pandering to something i like like unova is fine, but pandering towards something i dont like is no good.
>and the story should be a little mature but not too mature or else it'll be edgy, but it can't be about nothing like gen 1. also i want a cast of interesting and memorable side characters, but not too interesting and memorable or else it'll be like gen 7 and Lillie all over again.

This shit isn't made to order. They make the game they want to make and you play it if you're interested.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:47:06 No.35585053 Report

Quoted By:

>>35585024
Who are you quoting anon? Because the only one that is slightly connected to the thread is the last one

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:50:07 No.35585080 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584967
The point I was tryining to make is that western audiences are receptive to those themes. How they are presented is more important. Basically no one wants Barney type stuff past the age of 3, but it doesn't mean thet start hating feel good type stories. They just want some depth along with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:50:08 No.35585081 Report

Quoted By: >>35585152

>>35585024
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say a pokemon game shouldn't be too non-linear. Maybe some technical concerns about the level curves or going fully open world.

And really, that's a silly complaint at this point. I've seen Romhacks with full NPC level scaling that let you go anywhere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 06:58:11 No.35585152 Report

Quoted By: >>35585192

>>35585081

>level scaling

Fuck that disgusting shit. Way too kill any sense of progression and still leave balance up to chance.

There is definitely room for non linearity, but going full bethesda with open world and level scaling would ruin the series for me. Now I would be okay with even open world if they did some shit where they had difficulty ratings for areas and if you try and go into too difficult areas too early you probably get killed. That is actually nice because good players and strategizing can reward you by opening the world up early

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 07:04:01 No.35585192 Report

Quoted By: >>35585249

>>35585152
I'm more pointing out that it should be entirely feasible to adjust levels to the player's progress better. The hack I saw still had an element of that, since wild pokemon didn't scale, so going into late game areas was still dangerous.

The fact that games have only gotten more linear though is the bigger problem. It'd be fairly easy to segment the game where they do have areas of varying difficulty, where the first few gyms would scale and be possible to do in any order, then the next few, and so on.

It could be done, but we haven't seen any sort of attempt or step in that direction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 07:11:09 No.35585249 Report

Quoted By: >>35585269

>>35585192

Still don't like it. Played way too many games where level scaling ruins the progression if you don't take the linear path "sort of intended."

The most I could see are gym leaders having different teams based on how many badges you have. But then trainers will have levels that are off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 07:12:53 No.35585263 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584544
Fpbp

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 07:13:55 No.35585268 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584767
Because Gamefreak is creatively bankrupt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 07:13:56 No.35585269 Report

Quoted By:

>>35585249
That's basically how the hack worked. The levels scaled off of how many badges you had, for all trainers and gym leaders. All the pokemon were upscaled/downscaled with regards evolutionary forms as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 13:54:32 No.35587049 Report

Quoted By: >>35587076

>>35584535
It's for children.
Japanese pokemon games doesn't use kanji-but uses hiragana-a simpler alphabets for children. Even until now this is still happening.
If you've been to japan perhaps you'll see the difference. Those who goes to pokemon centres official merch, are all children.
We play it as a child. So why we insist it's not after we grow up? That doesn't make sense. That's like complaining a children storybook isn't interesting because the plot is too simple.
GF realized that nostalgiafans are there. Both give them income. But no, it shouldn't be for adults-it'll be for the children.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 13:55:36 No.35587055 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584544
You got dubs of truth there stranger.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 13:58:39 No.35587076 Report

Quoted By: >>35587104

>>35587049
This is their exact justification for why Ash is, and will always be 10 and start a new region with a pikachu thats far weaker than it should be given how strong it was at the end of the last season

Because each new gen, is a new stepping on point for a new generation of fans, fans of their targeted audience of 10

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 14:04:33 No.35587104 Report

Quoted By: >>35587188

>>35587076
Yes, and I don't see it as a bad thing.
I don't understand why everyone hating on it because graphics, because of plots.
Back when I was a child playing it I didn't think any of that. It is enough.
If we play it as a child, why we're pushing it for adults now? Why it shouldn't be targeted to children, as it intended to? can't children have joy just because our ego? It's selfish and irrational.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 14:20:47 No.35587188 Report

Quoted By:

>>35587104
It’s not unreasonable to ask for works targeted to children to have quality. Even kids can tell if a game is bad, they’re just not as good at judging because they have less frame of reference. Good games also age better- more replay value, better merchandising in the ling run, and better potential to use nostalgia to your advantage when making or remaking product.

Pokémon certainly is primarily for children. The standing issue in the thread is that GameFreak acknowledges that the longtime fans are also here, so it hurts that much more if the work is subpar. You can’t have it both ways; you can’t shill weak product because kids have less good judgment and keep the aging fanbase.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 14:22:31 No.35587198 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584558
That's why they will include Pokémon GO pandering now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 14:33:37 No.35587250 Report

Quoted By:

You see, this is what our problem has been all along. You either want to focus on the things only you like, or you want to change pokemon into something else entirely. Any impression you had about pokemon having substance was all an illusion, it was never there, it only pretended to be. You made it all up. All those adventures and grand landscapes and fun with your pokemon. It all wasn't there. Just pixels, a railroaded premise, and pure imagination. There was never personality or bonding, just fighting with your pokemon. Even now, it's just an automated thing that can't cheer you up or cuddle with you or play with you. It's just there to look cute and battle. Most of us need a reason to do what we do. We can't just accept our role with no question or even not knowing what that goal is. That is a child. We know where we're going. We know what we're doing. You can't be a child anymore, and to even desire it is to regress.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 14:36:19 No.35587262 Report

Quoted By:

>>35584558
And why is it sad? Pokemon has always been developed for a child audience in mind. Most people will laugh at you for playing it over the age of 10.

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