/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #35597540

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Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 15:28:01 No.35597540 View View Reply Original Report

Was it a step in the right direction for difficulty or was it artificially inflated?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 15:29:06 No.35597547 Report

Quoted By: >>35599594 >>35599873 >>35599927

>>35597540
>Huge fucking jump in level

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 15:31:24 No.35597563 Report

Quoted By:

It was a spike in the right direction. It's not so much artificially inflated as it is the difficulty level the whole endgame is supposed to be, to make up for the fucking XP share.

If you can't take down ONE pokemon, you just suck and should leave and not return until you don't suck anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 16:54:08 No.35598253 Report

Quoted By:

>>35597540
It would be cool fighting something like this but boosted with 2 or 3 pokémon of yours against him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 17:44:44 No.35598627 Report

Quoted By: >>35599262 >>35603293 >>35603383

*uses toxic and spams revives*
wew so hard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 18:14:57 No.35598826 Report

Quoted By: >>35600588 >>35601184

I felt like the actual Totems in USUM were fantastic in terms of steps in the direction of difficulty, because their movesets were smarter and they called allies, so they could still be beaten with a wide variety of strategies but they were really interesting opponents. On the other hand, Necrozma mostly just requires either a heck of a lot of brute force or one of three specific strategies (Sash Destiny Bond, Sash Toxic or Zoroark), and its OWN strategy is brute force (I mean, it only knows damaging moves with no side effects), so it's not especially interesting to fight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 18:19:41 No.35598866 Report

Quoted By: >>35600683

>>35597540
It was just right.
It wasn't an insanely complicated boss, but it's the only time in the entire series that the climax boss really lived up to the intro it's been given. An uncatchable legendary boss with stat boosts and good move coverage is wonderful, although it could be improved in many ways. Good overall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 18:21:21 No.35598886 Report

Quoted By: >>35599295 >>35599391 >>35600664

>>35597540
It's artificial. Totems aren't actually difficult. They're a puzzle that you are thrown into without having the rules explained. You don't know the Totem's allies or strategy, so the sheer stat/numbers difference makes it impossible to prepare for aside from "x is weak to y." Depending on who you start with, you can be down a Pokemon immediately and simply lose because you started with the wrong Pokemon with no room for counterplay aside from item spam.

If revisited, Pokemon needs an SMT-like 3v1 or so battle, where you can have Pokemon fulfill positions like attacker, supporter, healer, etc, so that you can have difficult battles that aren't decided by who you send out first.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:08:29 No.35599198 Report

Quoted By: >>35599213 >>35599424 >>35601233

>>35597540
Whether you liked the difficulty or not, it was a poorly designed spike from the Totem Kommo-o right before it. If they lowered the level a bit more, didn't give it an instant ancient power boost, or gave you more stuff in between to let you catch up in levels, it would have been better. The fact that people are teaching Toxic or changing their pokemon's moveset just for this fight should speak to the spike in difficulty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:10:08 No.35599213 Report

Quoted By: >>35599284

>>35599198
I mean every pokemon in the game can learn toxic. It's no different than giving a pokemon rock tomb before a flying gym.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:15:32 No.35599262 Report

Quoted By: >>35601495

>>35597540
It was a little artificially inflated, but it was needed, anything less wouldn't have been as memorable as this, i mean, how many people got their ass totally wreck by this monster on their first/second/third attempt

>>35598627
>*uses toxic and spams revives*
>spams revives
if it was so easy why are you letting pokemon die over and over again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:17:35 No.35599284 Report

Quoted By: >>35599391

>>35599213
Usually if you're afraid of a gym coming up, you grind rather than change movesets. People usually teach TMs they plan on using as soon as they get them anyway. Why wait until a given fight to teach it unless it was needed then and not before?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:19:08 No.35599295 Report

Quoted By:

>>35598886
Explain the system i really need to get into SMT

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:19:20 No.35599298 Report

Quoted By:

>>35597540
Doesn't matter since Game Freak will never do something like it again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:32:21 No.35599391 Report

Quoted By: >>35600010 >>35601233

>>35599284
Having players change movesets sounds better than making them grind.

>>35598886
Totems almost always use allies that you can find in the area, so you should at least have some foreshadowing of what's about to happen to you. Especially in a game where you have 6 team members to their 1-3, there's plenty of time to figure out their puzzle and form counterstrategies before the point of no return.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:35:21 No.35599424 Report

Quoted By: >>35599433 >>35601240

>>35599198
>The fact that people are teaching Toxic or changing their pokemon's moveset just for this fight should speak to the spike in difficulty.
Oh no people actually have to change their tactics and try something different
God how awful a boss that you may not be able to beat by just hitting it with the same moves you always use

(totem kommo-o is a joke)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:36:15 No.35599433 Report

Quoted By: >>35599443 >>35601731

>>35599424
>(totem kommo-o is a joke)
less so in USUM though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:37:23 No.35599443 Report

Quoted By:

>>35599433
In USUM, too. Unless you're dumb enough not to have a fairy-type at all, I guess?

Sylveon, Klefki and Ribombee all made short work of it in no time during my runs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:37:46 No.35599445 Report

Quoted By: >>35599466

I think Lusamine's fight as better, because the stat boost on ALL of her pokemon was good and made the fight fun
Even if it is very powerful, one pokemon is seldom a challenge, because every pokemon has weaknesses and can be cheesed with status
A much better fight with a big, strong pokemon would be Giovanni with Mega Mewtwo Y, because he wears you down before sending in the big boy

either way, gen 7 has the best battles in the series, aside from gen 4's cynthia battles

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:40:58 No.35599466 Report

Quoted By: >>35599858

>>35599445
>I think Lusamine's fight as better, because the stat boost on ALL of her pokemon was good and made the fight fun
too bad her AI was on full retard mode and the boosts were useless on half the Pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:53:50 No.35599594 Report

Quoted By: >>35600137

>>35597547
Totems are good. Necrozma is shit.
He moves fast and hits hard. That's it. Nothing special, just a lot of numbers. Should have made him a psuedo trainer, give him six health bars and different moves/types for each one, or given him fancy gimmick attacks, party-wide hits and/or have him charge up Light that Burns the Sky that needs to be blocked by whoever you gave a special item, something like that.
One big pokemon that you can't catch is fucking boring. You hit him, he hits you, that's it. Numbers might dictate that's difficult, but it'll still be dull as shit. You gotta give him more than than a free stat boost if you want a single uncatchable poke to be fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:07:30 No.35599717 Report

Quoted By:

If nothing else, it's a fight I'll never forget because it's not like I ever expected a story fight to be able to oneshot fully ev-trained metagaming pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:22:07 No.35599858 Report

Quoted By:

>>35599466
the only boost that was not very useful was milotic's attack boost, but it still could hit you with a surprise flail

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:24:03 No.35599873 Report

Quoted By: >>35599896

>>35597547
??? no it wasn't. It was like 2-3 levels higher than my highest pokemon.

Unless you're one of those retards who thinks not using the exp share is some kind of official balanced difficulty mode.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:26:18 No.35599896 Report

Quoted By: >>35600058 >>35601203

>>35599873
uh yeah not using the exp share is the difficulty mode
However, I was all like the early 50s with a 55 niovern and the fight felt entirely appropriate to me on a nuzlocke
I'll miss u magneton

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:28:27 No.35599927 Report

Quoted By: >>35599947 >>35600004 >>35600045 >>35600275

>>35597547
my lowest level pokemon was higher than it and i didnt use exp share. play the fucking game. no wonder no one here likes gen 7, yall probably rushed through the game as fast as possible avoiding all the trainers and using repels everywhere. stop and smell the roses

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:30:41 No.35599947 Report

Quoted By:

>>35599927
this is what I feel like, too
there's a fair bit to find and do in the region, it just seems like people see that map marker and get tunnel vision, then blame the game for it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:36:23 No.35599991 Report

Quoted By: >>35600072

When you guys say uncatchable, do you mean incredibly difficult, or hardcoded into the game to be impossible to catch? I don't own usum

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:37:29 No.35600004 Report

Quoted By:

>>35599927
I am playing mono ghost, and I turned off exp share. I didn't really notice a difference

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:37:45 No.35600010 Report

Quoted By: >>35600039

>>35599391
>Totems almost always use allies that you can find in the area, so you should at least have some foreshadowing of what's about to happen to you
This is blatantly false. Considering wild Pokemon go down in a single hit, there aren't opportunities to "scout," and even if you decided to waste your time and items doing so, it in no way tells you what the Totem's "strategy" is until you are already victim to it once. There's a reason there are so few JRPGs where you only control one character against a single super-strong boss. Pokemon and GameFreak don't quite understand that yet. They think the only way a game can be difficult is by surprising the player with something underhanded or with overwhelming force.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:39:52 No.35600039 Report

Quoted By:

>>35600010
For Pokemon, the 1v2 setup is basically the only way to make fights an interesting challenge
I loved the totem fights, and the double battle with faba in the RR episode where lillie beefs it right away so its just you against two

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:40:25 No.35600045 Report

Quoted By:

>>35599927
100% this

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:41:17 No.35600058 Report

Quoted By: >>35600079

>>35599896
>uh yeah not using the exp share is the difficulty mode
No it's not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:42:33 No.35600072 Report

Quoted By:

>>35599991
Impossible. The catching point is later dictated by story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:44:08 No.35600079 Report

Quoted By: >>35600448

>>35600058
why would you possibly think otherwise? It seems so obvious while you're playing the game
less exp = lower levels = more difficult
instead of making separate difficulty levels like in b2w2, the exp share lets them adjust your exp instead of enemy levels

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 20:50:33 No.35600137 Report

Quoted By: >>35600562

>>35599594

Im gonna have to call bullshit on this one

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:11:39 No.35600275 Report

Quoted By: >>35600296

>>35599927
no you retard i explored everything and did beat every trainers
and who the fuck doesn't use repels?
are you telleing me i should beat every fucking wild pokemon? fucking retard i swear

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:14:46 No.35600296 Report

Quoted By: >>35600308

>>35600275
>and who the fuck doesn't use repels?
Most people, outside of gen5.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:16:00 No.35600308 Report

Quoted By: >>35605360

>>35600296
that's wrong and you know it, that's only when you want to catch the new pokemon, fuck off

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:31:48 No.35600434 Report

Quoted By: >>35600473

Since I despise the gen VII starters, I grabbed a Zorua pretty early in the game and used it instead of my starter.
My Zoroark was disguised as a Salandit, so the thing kept spamming Psychic-type moves and failing. Three Dark Pulse and it was down. It was comically easy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:33:43 No.35600448 Report

Quoted By: >>35600546 >>35609463

>>35600079
>why would you possibly think otherwise?
Because the game doesn't say anywhere that it's a difficulty switch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:34:54 No.35600463 Report

Quoted By:

>>35597540
Should’ve had him bring Ultra Beasts or Solgaleo/Lunala as ally Pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:36:05 No.35600473 Report

Quoted By: >>35600484 >>35600485 >>35600510

>>35600434
Why the hell did you have a Salandit on your team?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:38:00 No.35600484 Report

Quoted By:

>>35600473
salandit is based

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:38:06 No.35600485 Report

Quoted By: >>35600489

>>35600473
>he doesn't know that /vp/ is full of furfag and lizardwaifufags

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:38:35 No.35600489 Report

Quoted By:

>>35600485
lizardshota*

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:40:52 No.35600510 Report

Quoted By: >>35600527 >>35600579 >>35600587 >>35601308 >>35605135

>>35600473
Because it hadn't evolved into Salazzle yet. Thing evolves pretty late, especially if you never use it because it's fucking shit and dies of a single Splash.
Exp. Share gives 50 % of Exp points, so leveling up ~15 levels when all they get is 500 exp per battle at best takes time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:42:18 No.35600523 Report

Quoted By:

>>35597540
unironically had to get my metagross over from oras to beat this bitch

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:43:00 No.35600527 Report

Quoted By:

>>35600510
>level 33 is late
What

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:45:22 No.35600546 Report

Quoted By:

>>35600448
so it doesn't have to make you feel bad for playing on easy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:47:00 No.35600562 Report

Quoted By: >>35602464

>>35600137
How so?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:48:58 No.35600579 Report

Quoted By:

>>35600510
>evolve late
dude that excuse works with volcanora but not salazzle

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:50:14 No.35600587 Report

Quoted By:

>>35600510
Salandit evolves at level 33 anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 21:50:21 No.35600588 Report

Quoted By:

>>35598826
pretty much this. totem battles have more variables that make the fights somewhat interesting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 22:01:22 No.35600664 Report

Quoted By:

>>35598886
Aside from straightforward type weaknesses, a Pokemon's typing is usually a pretty big giveaway for what sorts of strategies it might use against you. You're not going to see Water-type monsters team up against you under intense sunlight to boost their Synthesis and Solarbeam, that's a Grass-type thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 22:03:06 No.35600683 Report

Quoted By:

>>35598866
This. I'd like this approach to boss battles and legendaries to be explored in future games, it was a nice call.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 22:50:44 No.35601088 Report

Quoted By:

>>35597540
Fucking retarded that they didn't say the photon thing cuts through disguise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 23:05:27 No.35601184 Report

Quoted By:

>>35598826
Shit totems were easy as fuck. If your team matches up badly vs Necrozma, there are other strategies as well that are not as efficient, but don't require long ahead planning. I actually got in a couple rock tombs from midday doggo and Hawlchula to slow him down and then let my other mons who were now faster finish him off. Sucker Punch can also work to get an early hit, but like an idiot, I didn't have that on owl at the time of the battle.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 23:07:26 No.35601203 Report

Quoted By:

>>35599896
>It's unfair when I make it more challenging for myself
Really makes you think.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 23:12:44 No.35601233 Report

Quoted By: >>35601240 >>35601289

>>35599391
Even something as ubiquitous as Toxic stalling this is limited to pokemon that can withstand a hit from Ultra Necrozma and get it off. You're also assuming that nobody had to grind and rely on a completely new strat just for this fight due to team comp. Anything less broad than Toxic stalling goes against the purpose of this monster catching game that marketed itself as having a wider variety of pokemon to choose from than SM. Saying "if you just run this set, it's not a problem" doesn't mean anything because no pokemon in the game beats every pokemon.

>>35599198
What you described is one extreme. The other is people going online, seeing Zorua cheeses a boss, then catching one and teaching it Toxic. Sound familiar? When you get to an extreme, it's called a difficulty spike. That's what this is. Also,
>implying any pseudo with a 4x weakness is a joke.
>implying there isn't a large amount of people who hate fairy(1/18) type and probably didn't use one as a result.

tl;dr what's the point of a game that encourages diverse teambuilding if it's just going to throw in a boss that forces you to use one of a comparatively miniscule number of strategies?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 23:13:47 No.35601240 Report

Quoted By:

>>35601233
Oops. Meant the second part for >>35599424.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 23:19:31 No.35601289 Report

Quoted By: >>35602636

>>35601233
Another strategy is to use a SpD tank (I used Araquanid), dump x-SpD, then hit back. Necrozma doesn't have to be cheesed. Consider it a teaching moment regarding something the game always tries to emphasize: Item usage.

Also, if you're butthurt about fairy and don't bring one, or any other good anti-dragon juice, that's on you. You should've expected that there's a significant dragon threat in the lategame. That ALWAYS happens.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 23:22:38 No.35601308 Report

Quoted By:

>>35600510
Anon, did you catch a male Salandit on accident?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 23:46:28 No.35601495 Report

Quoted By: >>35609562

>>35599262
Because I could just 1 shot the fucking thing with a disobedient lv 100 retard. The thing having upped stats doesn't mean it's overall harder you dipshit, just more tedious. I fucking took down the thing with a team of baby mons, so is it really as hard as you loved it to be?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 00:22:24 No.35601731 Report

Quoted By: >>35602309

>>35599433
Nigga he gave me trouble in moon. I fucking 1 shotted his ass in US

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 01:47:31 No.35602309 Report

Quoted By: >>35602759

>>35601731
how did you struggle against him in moon? He was piss easy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 01:58:57 No.35602404 Report

Quoted By: >>35602456

Just boosting - its already high - stats was a bit of a shit way to increase the difficulty. We have more status and boosting moves than ever before, terrains, weather, items, abilities with interesting effects, ally Pokémon with support moves etc and yet the "Ultimate" fucking show down is this thing spamming it's insanely powerful STAB move.

I'd much rather you fought it with an UB assistmon that countered your starter. Maybe Blacephalon/Grass, Xurkitree/Water, Nihilego/Fire? Both have accessing to status moves and neither will continue to use the same move on a Pokémon that is unaffected due to illusion. That way the fight increases with difficulty as time goes on - they setup status moves, ultra beasts have chance to gain beast boosts - without it just being everything that can't outspeed or tank the nuke dies.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:05:50 No.35602456 Report

Quoted By: >>35602542 >>35603891

>>35602404
I beat it insanely easy as well. Eviolite magneton tanked and Twave, a draining kiss from comedy and then frost breath to bypass the SpD boost. That's why I don't like UN, it's just a behemoth with high stats and there's nothing interesting about the fight. It really confused me that they introduced the concept of ally Pokémon for the totems - often increasing the difficulty significantly by using healing and support moves etc - only to shelve it for the grand finale. UB's would have been the perfect assist Mons for Ultra Necrozma and it would have given them more significance in the main story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:06:36 No.35602464 Report

Quoted By: >>35602545

>>35600562

It fucking swept my team like nothing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:20:59 No.35602542 Report

Quoted By: >>35602579

>>35602456
I imagine people would bitch if they gave Necrozma assistmons, hell there are are people here that complain about Totems calling Pokemon for help.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:21:12 No.35602545 Report

Quoted By: >>35602780 >>35604368

>>35602464
Yeah that's exactly the problem though. It's hard because it had amazing stats and starts with them boosted further. Its only strategy is to hit hard and fast.
It's difficult but not in an interesting or rewarding way for the player because, as you say, 90+% of Pokémon available to you get outsped and one shot.
And there is no real indication to the player that Necrozma is coming until the end. What if you haven't read everything about the game online? What if you get to Necrozma and your team of bros is utterly, laughably unsuitable for the fight? Getting to the end of the story only to have to train replacements for Pokémon you've used for your whole playthrough is fucking shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:26:23 No.35602579 Report

Quoted By: >>35602642

>>35602542
People are bitching about Necrozma as it is now anyway. At least assist ultra beasts a) makes use of a new feature b) adds story presence to the lacking UBs and c) increases the difficulty in a lore friendly way. "It suddenly got more powerful" is shit and adds nothing to the story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:33:45 No.35602636 Report

Quoted By: >>35602655 >>35602758

>>35601289
Necrozma's coverage hits basically anything that isn't a steel type super effectively with neuroforce, though. Your Araquanid would have to be level 60 and EV trained to take around half from Power Gem according to damage calcs, then not get critted as you spammed items over multiple turns. That's not a strat that can work in large numbers statistically. Roto-boost maybe, but Rotom's another thing a large cohort of people didn't bother with this time. Assault Vest and Focus Sash aren't available at that point unless you transfer from SM, either. The only largely "feasible" method, and likely what GF wanted you to do, was maxing affection to dodge the moves and live with a pseudo focus band.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:34:49 No.35602642 Report

Quoted By: >>35602786

>>35602579
And UM could have Moon exclusive UBs and US have Sun exclusive UBs, and unlike the others, Necrozma has a pool of 5 UBs to call from, now that would be neat and lorewise make Necrozma seem more godlike.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:37:26 No.35602655 Report

Quoted By: >>35602782

>>35602636
the focus sash is available tho

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:41:07 No.35602758 Report

Quoted By: >>35602782

>>35602636
Bruh you can just beat down the 4 Oricorio hula lady, she still gives you the sash in USUM. It's one of the most common strats people used.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:41:12 No.35602759 Report

Quoted By:

>>35602309
I have no idea. I just brave birded his ass with skarmory in US and instant death

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:43:04 No.35602780 Report

Quoted By: >>35602885

>>35602545
i'm sure any balanced team would be able to beat necrozma by building a strategy with the focus sash

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:43:13 No.35602782 Report

Quoted By: >>35602817

>>35602655
>>35602758
Scratch the sash. Didn't notice that. Guess that means the most common thing was sash+toxic?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:43:47 No.35602786 Report

Quoted By: >>35602793 >>35602806

>>35602642
It shouldn't be something that a fraction of Pokémon can handle at the end of the day. What's the point in catching them all if in arguably the most significant fight of the game you need a steel type or a huge block of cheese.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:45:45 No.35602793 Report

Quoted By:

>>35602786
to reflect the meta :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:47:20 No.35602806 Report

Quoted By: >>35602892 >>35602953

>>35602786
Affection boosts can make any Pokemon a hero, and by the end of the game you should have treated all your bros to lots of food and headpats. If you didn't, then that's fair, but I think they thought of how OP affection boosts were when they put that monstrosity in.
Not who you were talking to, just throwing in my 2 cents. It's not cheese because you don't have to go out of your way to alter your team (i.e. no matter what your composition/movesets are, you can still probably do it) and it doesn't need a specific type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:49:27 No.35602817 Report

Quoted By:

>>35602782
i personally wasn't using toxic
but paralysis + light screen with a lead, rock tomb/bulldoze with 2 mons, then finish with the rest of the team without getting outspeed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:55:37 No.35602863 Report

Quoted By:

>>35597540
I didn't know what to expect so my team wasn't prepared at all. It was the first time I lost in USUM and i like losing and having to strategize. Huge plus for me

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:59:10 No.35602885 Report

Quoted By: >>35602937

>>35602780
My magneton with eviolite was a bit overlevelled and it was still 2HKO. If Thunder wave had missed the rest of my team would have been outsped and one hit easily. Comfey would have gotten a draining kiss but without a max revive I'd have to sacrifice two Pokémon to revive and restore it to full health to try t wave again. Ultra Necrozma with its boosts is more than capable of oneshotting most of the Alolan Dex, even if they are overlevelled, and I was using arguably the best Pokémon outside klefki to ensure a t wave, but if it had missed I might as well have reset. What's the other option to guarantee speed control, priority tailwind? So you use Whimsicott? Cheese with Zoroark? Use focus sash to toxic and then stall?

That's not fun at all. Your choices are limited unless you overlevel to counter the boosts. Its a 1-Dimensional fight that requires a workaround rather than any kind of strategy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:00:40 No.35602892 Report

Quoted By:

>>35602806
That is actually a really good point. I didn't like them in Moon so I didn't bother with Refresh other than curing status. Forgot they were even a thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:07:56 No.35602937 Report

Quoted By: >>35603116

>>35602885
honestly there are a lot of options when you don't want to use x items/heal/ etc
it's not limited at all, especially thanks to the focus sash, it's there for that

the focus sash can help you build a strategy without fucking dumb toxic stall
speed control like t-wave/rock tomb/bulldoze/tailwind/etc, reducing damage with screens or moves to be able to take hits
if you don't have one (1) pokemon to help your start a strategy then there is a problem
show me a lambda team without steel types and i'll tell you how honestly

workaround is a bit exaggered, you can't just go without a plan

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:09:38 No.35602953 Report

Quoted By:

>>35602806
That's essentially how it died.

>skarmory used toxic
>tank due to sturdy
>dies
>bulbasaur sent out
>crozma uses power gem like an idiot
>bulba survives
>crozma photon beam
>bulba bros it twice before falling to 3rd beam
>crozma dies next turn

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:32:45 No.35603116 Report

Quoted By: >>35603189

>>35602937
Focus sash is an item from a sidequest that can easily be missed and could be used up prior to UN as you have no idea it's coming until it's there. I hate to play devil's advocate but it's a kid's game at the end of the day, I agree that a player with a half decent team comp and prior knowledge of the fight should be be able to beat it. But for everyone not playing through with a strategy guide and not using single-use (arguably)competitive items then the first encounter with Necrozma, even with a team that is capable of dealing with it, is most likely going to result in a wipe or heavy item spam.

You can make a strategy IF you have prior knowledge of the fight but otherwise you will wipe. You can't just adapt and play really well against Necrozma because if you aren't already using a bulky steel type or focus sash Mon with a disabling love you can't do anything to stop it. And again, focus sash is consumable, but obviously you should know that this is the time; this is the fight you will need this one time only consumable and you know exactly which Pokémon to use.

That's why it's bad to me. For most people's first experience of that fight to be an unceremonious wipe is shitty to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:42:55 No.35603189 Report

Quoted By: >>35603205 >>35603236

>>35603116
from this point of view i guess you're right, it could have been done better
yeah, something that OHKO all your team at the speed of light like Necrozma is not that interesting
they didn't used the totem concept at full potential, necrozma being more bulky and less faster/stronger but with allies would have been better

i guess they really wanted to punish people who use the items/roto boosts

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:44:37 No.35603205 Report

Quoted By: >>35603219

>>35603189
>i guess they really wanted to punish people who use the items/roto boosts
?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:46:08 No.35603219 Report

Quoted By:

>>35603205
i mean the game is easier with them and the exp share, it's probably the reason why necrozma is so strong in the first place

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:48:55 No.35603236 Report

Quoted By: >>35603292 >>35603303

>>35603189
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a big boss fight against a Pokémon that requires you to use your whole team to beat. But I think assist UBs would work better since then all the power isn't focused in one Pokémon. An unboosted U-Necrozma with an UB supporting it would be a significant threat that really makes you think about how to best make use of your team; you just need a little breathing room to do so rewardingly imo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:56:26 No.35603292 Report

Quoted By: >>35603360

>>35603236
honestly we really need phases and inherent effects like others rpg
stats boosts and eventual allies are a good start, but that's limited
even for a big legendary alone it would be probably great if we had these mechanics

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO thisniggacrazyrobin.jpg, 12KiB, 188x202

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:56:26 No.35603293 Report

Quoted By:

>>35598627
>Revives
>>>>>Spamming Revives

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:57:52 No.35603303 Report

Quoted By:

>>35603236
Also, not using the fight to show off Necrozma's signature Z move was a huge waste.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 04:07:04 No.35603360 Report

Quoted By:

>>35603292
>phases

Could not agree more, multiple health bars, some awesome DMC style clashes between phase/locale shift would be great. Strategies involving terrain and weather setting would be helped by the fight restarting, natural cure and regenerator type abilities are boosted.

I'd really like to see extra mechanics added akin to that slot wheel arcade facility in Gen 4 I think. Or even add new ones to give them an advantage that doesn't boil down to more stats. It'd be cool to see a legendary fight where say in the final phase gravity is permenant in effect and it starts using moves like zap canon or inferno with perfect accuracy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 04:09:00 No.35603373 Report

Quoted By:

>>35597540
First time in, it swept me. I was floored.

I stepped back, put together a new strategy, and moved some items around. It was satisfying to win because I had to put in some real thought.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 04:10:18 No.35603383 Report

Quoted By: >>35603449

>>35598627
Cheesing isn't impressive, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 04:17:10 No.35603449 Report

Quoted By:

>>35603383
More importantly is it what we want? Sure you can cheese with toxic but wouldn't you rather have a fleshed out fight against something with some depth to it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 05:48:46 No.35603891 Report

Quoted By:

>>35602456
oh and it could be so cool like the UBs appearing out of portals

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 07:05:21 No.35604277 Report

Quoted By: >>35604704

For the first time ever, Gamefreak did a boss Pokemon fight right, can people stop giving them shit about it?
Yes, it can be cheesed, but I can't think of a single "Boss Pokemon" fight that can't be cheesed
Maybe you can give it a Magic Guard or something so Toxic won't be an option (won't protect against Destiny Bond, but Destiny Bond can be made hard to get, like they did in USUM)

No, really, I want people here to TRY and make a proper boss Pokemon (when we are talkinga about a solo Pokemon, no allies, no trainer)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 07:29:33 No.35604368 Report

Quoted By:

>>35602545

>Zoroark (or any pokemon) that knows nightslash
>Decidueye + Ghost Z
>Your bros having full friendship
>Toxic spam
>X Defense and Special Defense to reduce the amount of damage thrown at your bros

I did the 1st one listed then the 2nd one listed they just weren't easy to pull off as i had to spam revives a few times until the friendship effect kicked in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 07:32:23 No.35604376 Report

Quoted By:

>>35597540
Totems were the right step, Necrozma was stupid, its basically the opposite of a challenge because there's just tricks left for you in this situation

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 09:11:16 No.35604704 Report

Quoted By:

>>35604277
>when we are talkinga about a solo Pokemon, no allies, no trainer
Do you not realize that that's the problem? Of course no boss is going to be interesting under those arbitrary criteria.
All of the people who are actually being productive and proposing ways to make it better rather than just tearing it down meaninglessly ARE asking for allies. The reason for that is that it's far more interesting.
Yes, you're right that there's no way to stop people from cheesing. So give a fight that doesn't RELY on cheesing and you have a good boss (plenty of the other fights in USUM are examples of good ways to do this) - while there's no way to make a fight that CAN'T be cheesed, people who actually WANT a challenge aren't going to cheese the fight unless you make that necessary, so the focus should be on making it rewarding not to cheese it (by making the fight genuinely interesting), not on making it impossible to cheese it.
Your mindset in what defines a good boss is the problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 09:19:04 No.35604729 Report

Quoted By:

>>35597540
I don't remember what mon I used (I bred my pokemon in Moon and traded them over to UM, hatched them in UM) but I clearly remember two shotting him

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 10:50:11 No.35605081 Report

Quoted By: >>35608820

>>35597540
>difficuilty
Are you actually shitting me? You are calling ultra necrozma DIFFICUILT? How much of a casual must you be?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 11:03:05 No.35605135 Report

Quoted By:

>>35600510
In fact you had a Salandit jut to not lose against Necrozma, because problem with levelling sounds untrue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 11:19:40 No.35605192 Report

Quoted By: >>35605350

>>35597540
So what is the deal with this one? Not paying for more of gen 7

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 12:00:56 No.35605350 Report

Quoted By: >>35605387

>>35605192
129 speed, 167 both attacking stats, 97 in the rest. good coverage, does 25% more damage with SE hits and has a STAB move that ignores abilities.

ah it's also 10 levels over your team and has +1 in every stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 12:04:33 No.35605360 Report

Quoted By: >>35605723

>>35600308
Most people just kill the Pokemon because it takes all of 2 hits to do so usually and its easier than wasting your time grinding later.

In fact, pretty much everybody does this. People only use repels in an area where they want to get through quick and are already a good level.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 12:07:58 No.35605379 Report

Quoted By:

>>35597540
>Use leech seed
>use protect
>use toxic
>use protect
>use whatever the fuck u want cause it's definitely going down now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 12:09:18 No.35605387 Report

Quoted By: >>35605403 >>35609213

>>35605350
So basically you need either a wall, a glass cannon or over level.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 12:12:44 No.35605403 Report

Quoted By:

>>35605387
luckily i played through with mah man Bronzong.
And i had Aurora Veil on my ninetales too!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 13:05:40 No.35605669 Report

Quoted By:

Used focus sash + destiny bond because I am a pleb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 13:12:11 No.35605706 Report

Quoted By: >>35606652

>>35597540
It made me think a little, which is more than I can say for the majority of USUM.
I hope in future games legendary Pokemon act as bosses and then you need to catch them somewhere else after beating them. Kind of like you're weakening them and then they run away.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 13:14:31 No.35605723 Report

Quoted By:

>>35605360
>grinding
yep, it's just grinding, so stop

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 15:24:45 No.35606652 Report

Quoted By:

>>35605706
Isn't that precisely what happened with Necrozma?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 17:24:22 No.35607652 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 19:38:55 No.35608820 Report

Quoted By:

>>35605081
did you even read the thread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 19:46:24 No.35608903 Report

Quoted By: >>35608988

>>35597540
>People keep saying he was hard
I dont get it, my Pangoro bodied him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 19:56:54 No.35608988 Report

Quoted By:

>>35608903
Might I inquire as to how Pangoro was able to survive?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 20:26:17 No.35609213 Report

Quoted By:

>>35605387
I used Focus Sash on Electabuzz to get in a Thunder Wave, then proceeded to take it out by getting whatever hits in that I could before it would wipe whatever Pokémon was out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 20:32:59 No.35609270 Report

Quoted By: >>35609306 >>35611333

>>35597540
I enjoyed having to prepare for a fight. Usually during a play through I just grab Mons with diverse types and decent stats, but it was nice having to strategize. If they'd wanted it to be overkill they would have had the aura boosts add +2 instead of +1.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 20:37:40 No.35609306 Report

Quoted By:

>>35609270
I imagine that's why they kept it at +1 instead of +2, they didn't want to make it too infuriating.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1390609104545.gif, 537KiB, 480x270

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 20:53:25 No.35609463 Report

Quoted By:

>>35600448
>I need the game to spell out everything for me before I can make a reasonable conclusion

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 21:02:50 No.35609562 Report

Quoted By:

>>35601495
Dude, do you have like legit autism?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 May 2018 00:57:42 No.35611333 Report

Quoted By:

>>35609270
>+2 Ultra Necrozma
Are you insane?

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