/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #35834195

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Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:44:25 No.35834195 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>35834215 >>35834332 >>35834611 >>35834742 >>35834796 >>35835542 >>35835741 >>35836486 >>35836838 >>35836851

Why was this available so late in the johto games? It was literally the last thing you could catch, all the way at the end on Mt. Silver.

On that note, what about stuff like Houndour and Murkrow. Why were so many dark Pokémon locked out before the post game?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:46:16 No.35834215 Report

Quoted By: >>35837397

>>35834195
Because GSC have problems with pokemon distribuition

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:48:35 No.35834243 Report

Quoted By: >>35834255 >>35834276 >>35834456 >>35835160

Where would you put it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:49:35 No.35834255 Report

Quoted By: >>35834285

>>35834243
The cave right before the eight gym could be a good place, considering how late this thing evolves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:51:50 No.35834276 Report

Quoted By: >>35834284 >>35834288 >>35834367 >>35835160

>>35834243
Union cave. Put it in a section where you need waterfall to access it. Then you can get it before the elite 4, but it requires revisiting an older place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:52:47 No.35834284 Report

Quoted By: >>35834301

>>35834276
this is good, it's like what they did with bagon

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:52:51 No.35834285 Report

Quoted By: >>35834292

>>35834255
You mean ice cave?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:53:21 No.35834288 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834276
Giving rewards for exploring is always a good thing so this idea is great

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:53:57 No.35834292 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834285
Yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:54:59 No.35834301 Report

Quoted By: >>35834313 >>35834322 >>35834396 >>35834487

>>35834284
That’s another terrible decision. Honestly props to gen 4,6, and 7 for putting their pseudos in normal places

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:56:31 No.35834313 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834301
Sorry, I thought you meant putting it on Mt. Silver. The union cave idea is great

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:57:34 No.35834322 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834301
I kind of like the way Gen 1 did it.
You can get it early for shelling out a bunch of cash or catch one deep in the safari zone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 19:58:47 No.35834332 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834195
thank you hgss to put it in safari zone , I fuckedlance with tyrannitar

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:02:12 No.35834367 Report

Quoted By: >>35835160

>>35834276
This is good because Union Cave already has the Lapras event that you can get mid game, so the player is already prompted to keep going further when they realize that waterfall isn't just for looks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:05:03 No.35834396 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834301
Why? Why not have pseudo be something you have to actively seek out instead of tripping over?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:10:47 No.35834456 Report

Quoted By: >>35834480

>>35834243
Mt. Mortar as a rare encounter.
Any other option is wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:12:50 No.35834480 Report

Quoted By: >>35835566

>>35834456
Probably only in the same room as the karate king.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:13:56 No.35834487 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834301
gen 7 is still too late
you get it and it evolves already

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:24:46 No.35834588 Report

Quoted By: >>35834821 >>35834848 >>35835160

>Dratini in Gen I
Good. Being able to either buy it or waiting until you got to Fuchsia was a good call

>Larvitar in Gen II
Bad. Its placement is completely ridiculous and you should've been able to catch it in either Mt. Mortar or Union Cave

>Bagon in Gen III
Good. Its location fit thematically with the Pokemon, and considering how powerful Salamence is it felt very rewarding when you found the Bagon room in Meteor Falls.

>Beldum in Gen III
Good. Being Steven's ace Pokemon it was very cool that you got it as a gift from him after becoming the champion.

>Gible in Gen IV
Good. Being in a sort of hidden area somewhat early in the game is good for the fact that it can be easily bypassed, and overall it is a reward for exploration.

>Deino in Gen V
Bad. It evolves late as fuck and you find it a point in the game where you already have a full team. You're also almost guaranteed to bench someone when you catch Reshiram/Zekrom. Maybe if it was on the same cave as Axew it would've been better.

Didn't play XY or SM so I don't know about Goomy and Jangmo-o's locations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:27:16 No.35834611 Report

Quoted By: >>35834630

>>35834195
They probably thought Dark types would be the new psychic, so they banished them to post game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:29:16 No.35834630 Report

Quoted By: >>35834678 >>35834805

>>35834611
Umbreon

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:33:33 No.35834678 Report

Quoted By: >>35834699

>>35834630
Also post game
You get eevee in celadon city

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:35:52 No.35834699 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834678
Bill gives you Eevee after you meet him in Ecruteak

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:38:57 No.35834742 Report

Quoted By: >>35834864

>>35834195
has anybody made a very minimally changed johto romhack where all johto pokemon are actually available in johto?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:45:13 No.35834796 Report

Quoted By: >>35835088

>>35834195
You can get him at the Celedon game corner in Crystal

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:46:14 No.35834805 Report

Quoted By: >>35834883

>>35834630
What about it? He's talking about the ones that got locked behind post game. I was stating that they didn't want the user to have access to a bunch of darks

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:47:36 No.35834821 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834588
Jangmo-o shows up in the penultimate "area" of the game, and it's at such a level so that you can pretty much instantly get a Hakamo-o

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:49:40 No.35834848 Report

Quoted By: >>35835844

>>35834588
Goomy is good, it's early enough to actually be used and finding a slime ball that turns into a slime dragon in a swampy woods works well.

Jangmo-o is another really late game one. It's on the very last island, too late in the game to for someone to really use it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:51:20 No.35834864 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834742
this would be great, also giving jhoto mons to the gym leaders would be cool

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 20:52:29 No.35834883 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834805
Maybe.
but it was fixed in hgsss since you can catch one in the safari zone

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:14:05 No.35835088 Report

Quoted By: >>35835160

>>35834796
No you can't and I don't get why people still post this.

t. played Crystal a month ago and got absolutely everything you can in the game corner

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:21:14 No.35835160 Report

Quoted By: >>35835178 >>35835203 >>35835409

>>35834243
If I were to locate every Johtomon somewhere:
Murkrow - Ilex Forest (night only; 5-10%).
Misdreavus - Burnt Tower (night only; 10-15%)
Houndour - Burnt Tower (morning only; 20-25%)
Slugma - Dark Cave (Blackthorn side; 10-15%)
Porygon (Porygon2) - gift from someone in Radio Tower after you defeat Team Rocket.
Chansey (Blissey) - Route 38/39 (1-5%)
Larvitar - Mt. Mortar (requires Surf; 5-10%).

>>35834276
>>35834367
Union Cave doesn't have a waterfall, what are you talking about?

>>35834588
You can't complain about Deino being available lategame while praising Bagon and Beldum. Your reasoning behind Beldum is especially hypocritical, since Hydreigon is Ghetsis' ace.

I can agree with your opinion about Dratini, Larvitar and Gible.

Goomy is available after 5th gym at 30+ levels. It evolves at 40 and 50 levels. It's a satisfactory placement, in my opinion.
Jangmo-o is available in SM's "victory road" at 40+ levels. It evolves at 35 and 45 levels. Utterly nonsensical placement if you ask me.

>>35835088
>got absolutely everything you can in the game corner
Which one? Goldenrod or Celadon one?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:23:24 No.35835178 Report

Quoted By:

>>35835160
Oh shit, my bad. I thought you were talking about the Goldenrod gamecorner.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:26:16 No.35835203 Report

Quoted By: >>35835329

>>35835160
Beldum works where Deino fails for the fact that gen 3 had 2 pseudos. As for Bagon, it being at the end of an out of the way exploration rather than simply an uncommon encounter in Victory Road makes it feel like more of a reward.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:32:53 No.35835260 Report

Quoted By: >>35835375 >>35835543 >>35835598

they are not meant to be used in the main game
it's a rare pokemon to catch at the end of the game
as it should be

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:40:21 No.35835329 Report

Quoted By:

>>35835203
I fail to understand your point of view. Since both of gen 3 pseudos are catchable at the end of the game, it doesn't change anything - their placement is plain bad. I would argue that their availability is actually worse since RSE don't have any postgame outside of battle facilities while BW have multiple locations to explore.
Even level requirement doesn't change much - you won't reach 50lv before credits in RSE and you won't reach 64lv before credits in BW. You would have to grind a lot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:45:14 No.35835375 Report

Quoted By:

>>35835260
nah

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:48:03 No.35835409 Report

Quoted By: >>35835455

>>35835160
>Union Cave doesn't have a waterfall, what are you talking about
We are talking about how you would change it. So you'd add that section into Union Cave.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:51:55 No.35835451 Report

Quoted By:

Here's the actual reason.

When designing Gen 2, it was intended to be a sequel to Gen 1, an addition. For the games, the older Pokemon were generally widely available, whereas the new Pokemon were rare and coveted. They assumed that players would want to hunt down and find all the new Pokemon they could, so made them difficult to track down, a reward for the diligent player. Sure, there were some throwaways like Sentret, Hoothoot etc that could be obtained with little issue, but the vast majority of new Pokemon were rare. At the time, this must have seemed like the best way to do it, but obviously since Gen 3 the focus has shifted to making the new Pokemon more obtainable than the old (with the exception of Gen 6).

Is it a bad design choice? Probably. But it was also the first sequel to Pokemon that was ever made. I'm sure GF were concerned that players would want to use their old favorites since it was only the second game. Remember that Gen 3 was seen as a sort of soft reboot for the franchise, so it made sense for new Pokemon to have a big spotlight, whereas a direct sequel would probably be expected to have similar creatures roaming around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:52:38 No.35835455 Report

Quoted By: >>35835478

>>35835409
My bad then. Apologies.
That being said, I wouldn't want another Waterfall-requiring section. Managing more than 5 HMs is kinda tiresome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:54:35 No.35835478 Report

Quoted By: >>35835506

>>35835455
I too only have 80 IQ and 1 hand to count on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 21:57:46 No.35835506 Report

Quoted By:

>>35835478
It has nothing to do with someone's intelligence and you should know it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:00:13 No.35835542 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834195
Well hg/ss did put lavitar in the safari zone making it obtainable as soon as you get surf

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:00:15 No.35835543 Report

Quoted By:

>>35835260

To add to this. Tyranitar was the ultimate legendary killer at the time. With dark and rock it could take on a whole team of legendary birds and Mew(two)s. It was a pain to train him so late in the game, but the reward was great. I still remember kicking a French kids ass with it that hacked an entire team of legendaries.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:02:28 No.35835566 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834480
Make that area where it has the highest chance to be found.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:05:09 No.35835598 Report

Quoted By: >>35835784 >>35835842

>>35835260
I partially agree with this point. Pseudo-legends act as the "ultima weapon" of pokemon games: a "tool" that is extremely powerful and can wreck the endgame by itself, giving you a wonderful sensastion of power and dominion over the game, but that is only accessible to those who are willing to steer out of the main campaign's linear progression to go and get it. The requirements for a good pseudo-legend in my opinion are:
>it should be available in the late game, but not so late that there's not much to unleash it upon
>it should be "hidden" in a not-obvious place that you have to backtrack towards and explore deeper than you could do the first time you went there
>it should test your patience by being significantly weaker than the rest of your team when you first meet it, so that not only you have to be curious to find it, but also patient enough to "unlock" it

only Gible and Bagon fit all these criterias (i haven't played gen5 so idk about Deino). Dratini is available a little too early and it's just a rare encounter in a common area, Larvitar is available too late and you can only really use it against Red. Goomy and Jangmoo are easy to find and placed in an area you get to during a linear playthrough so you can't miss them, and most of all their final evolutions aren't even that powerful to be worth the hassle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:15:37 No.35835741 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834195
To keep things happening

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:18:37 No.35835784 Report

Quoted By: >>35835824

>>35835598
To summarize: Make it a very rare Pokemon after the 5th gym or similar challenge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:21:15 No.35835824 Report

Quoted By:

>>35835784
I'd rather have it a 100% encounter in a cast away area than a 1% in a normal route. Finding the spot should be the challenge, not spending hours in the same patch of grass waiting for it to spawn

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:22:33 No.35835842 Report

Quoted By: >>35835865

>>35835598
You can get Gible after the second gym though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:22:39 No.35835844 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834848
I always found it weird you find it before the fairy type gym

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:23:20 No.35835849 Report

Quoted By:

I would rather have a new game + where you get to keep all your monsters you caught the first time around, but wild pokemon start around level 20 and get stronger from there.

I like to raise pokemon, but I don't like to sit in one spot grinding all day. I would rather go through the campaign again with a new pre-made team

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:24:36 No.35835865 Report

Quoted By: >>35835884 >>35835936

>>35835842
I'm pretty sure you need rock climb or some other HM before you can get to that part of the cave, at least in DP. Am I remembering it wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:26:33 No.35835884 Report

Quoted By:

>>35835865
I think you need Strength to navigate the lower level, but more key is the fact that the cave with Gible is hidden under the bridge of the cycling road, meaning unless you really know where to look you won't find it easily.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 22:30:01 No.35835936 Report

Quoted By:

>>35835865
You're right about DP, but in Platinum (which is the definitive Sinnoh game and a strong contender for best game in the series) you can get a Gible AND TM26 which has always been Earthquake if you haven't played enough Pokemon to start memorizing key TM numbers just as soon as you can go below Cycling Road. Only HM you need for both is Rock Smash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 23:11:08 No.35836369 Report

Quoted By:

I liked Sneazel the most even though he was in the very end of the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 23:21:44 No.35836486 Report

Quoted By: >>35836835

>>35834195
>Dratini evolved late but was around the safari zone so you could get it without it jobbing
>T-tar was ingame useless since all you had left was red. HGSS let you use the safari zone to get lavitar early
>Salamence in hoenn they might as well give you shelgon. have to grind it and you only have E4 left. XY fixed it by making bagon rare early on
>Metagross is almost always postgame only
>Gible in platinum could sweeep your team with dragon rage but could be caught before 3rd gym. you need a HM for DP
>Deino is common sure but it evolve for the firsty time during the E4 and second wrapping up postgame
>Goomy is alright but waiting to evolve is annoying
>Jangmo-o is too late and you don't have to train much
This is how pseduo legendaries should be handled
>2nd-4th gym,Optional area. Evolves midgame and final form late game but still have fights left

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 23:50:45 No.35836835 Report

Quoted By:

>>35836486
I think it's better that they're non-standard and each one is a little different
some being really rare and not used in-game is fine

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 23:51:09 No.35836838 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834195
I like what they did in HGSS, putting Larvitar in the Safari Zone. You can catch it right after your 5th badge.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 175px-Malosse-OA.png, 45KiB, 175x191

Anonymous Wed 06 Jun 2018 23:52:22 No.35836851 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834195
At least it was available before post game and easily findable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 Jun 2018 00:48:57 No.35837397 Report

Quoted By:

>>35834215
>Because GSC have problems with pokemon distribuition
this. Technically Houndour is a Kanto pokemon since you can't get it anywhere in Johto.
But man the Pidgey line was absolutely essential to be found in nearly every route.

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