/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #36133390

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Gen 1 Dragonite, worthless?

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 19:50:07 No.36133390 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>36133450 >>36133488 >>36133583 >>36133721 >>36133807 >>36134507 >>36136460 >>36136619 >>36138466 >>36140246

I've finally got my hands on one of these, and it's dawned on me that it's fucking useless. Outside of the degenerate Smogon AgiliWrap moveset and maybe Horn Drill shit, I can't find a use for this fucker. What am I not seeing? Sure, he can learn a lot of TMs, but even in a format where anything goes, I can't see anything that he can capitalise on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 19:59:42 No.36133450 Report

Quoted By: >>36133525 >>36133683 >>36134418 >>36136112 >>36138665

>>36133390
>resists grass, water, fire, fighting (bug too)
>immune to ground
>highest attack stat
>above average in everything else
>can learn almost every strong move
Just throw a bunch of strong attacks on him and go to town.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:03:39 No.36133488 Report

Quoted By: >>36134443

>>36133390
>Outside of the degenerate Smogon AgiliWrap moveset
- Dragonite without AgiliWrap is completely outclassed by Tauros and there is no point in using it
- Even Dragonite WITH AgiliWrap is only okayish and there is nothing wrong in using the set

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:07:37 No.36133525 Report

Quoted By: >>36133592 >>36136484 >>36137544

>>36133450
>resists grass, water, fire, fighting (bug too)
all of these types except water are irrelevant in gen 1
>immune to ground
that's a point
>highest attack stat
true but doesn't matter much if he has no STAB move to capitalize from
>above average in everything else
Bulk and speed are okayish but not that great
>can learn almost every strong move
true, but so can others mons which can use them better
Dragonite is also x4 weak to ice in a gen where every second mon carries Blizzard or Ice Beam.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Shot_063.png, 38KiB, 878x261

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:16:04 No.36133583 Report

Quoted By: >>36133588 >>36134576 >>36134622

Holy fucking shit, it's taken 20 minutes for my internet to let me post this.

>>36133390
Actually, lets consider the moves for a moment. Realistically, it's got:
Swift/Body Slam for Normal moves
Thunder/Thunder Bolt for Electric moves
Ice Beam/Blizzard for Ice moves
Surf for Water moves
Fire Blast or Dragon Rage if you're fucking insane
Hyper Beam for KOs
Reflect, Rest, and Substitute for tanking
Agility for speed
Thunder Wave for status
Double Team, Horn Drill, and Wrap for degeneracy

Gotta say, with these stats in mind, I don't get it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:17:25 No.36133588 Report

Quoted By: >>36133630

>>36133583
what is it you don't get?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:18:21 No.36133592 Report

Quoted By: >>36133628

>>36133525
Irrelevant how?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:24:28 No.36133628 Report

Quoted By: >>36134450

>>36133592
Grass, fire, fighting and bug all suck hard in gen 1 offensively. Bug and fighting have absolutely no usable moves. Fire sucks beacuse many good mons resist it and getting hit by a fire move is the only way to unfreeze in gen 1. Grass is the least shitty of the four but there is only one good grass move (razor leaf) which the only good plant type mon (Exeggutor) can't use. Mega Drain is somewhat okayish but resisting a 40 BP move isn't really all that important.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:24:57 No.36133630 Report

Quoted By: >>36133652

>>36133588
Why I'd choose to use Dragonite.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:29:12 No.36133652 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133630
There really isn't any good reason. Well, in UU it's probably good, but I haven't played smogons gen 1 UU meta.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:34:18 No.36133683 Report

Quoted By: >>36133845

>>36133450
>highest attack stat
And what do I do with this? Nearly all of his good moves are physical and lack STAB.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ICE.png, 21KiB, 322x317

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:38:35 No.36133721 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133390

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:55:04 No.36133806 Report

Quoted By:

I’d personally go with agility + 3 attacking moves to make it into a sweeper.
Though in genwun there’s probably better choices to pull this off. Jolteon and Taurus come to mind, and they’re fast so they don’t need agility or whatever. Also as has been mentioned everything has blizzard so you’re probably dead before you can set up properly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:55:05 No.36133807 Report

Quoted By: >>36133821

>>36133390
just use dragonair, the 4x weakness ins't worth it in gen1

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 20:59:20 No.36133821 Report

Quoted By: >>36133836

>>36133807
Dragonair's stats are shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:01:30 No.36133836 Report

Quoted By: >>36133852 >>36133877 >>36138679

>>36133821
>muh stats
didn't know this was a competitive autism thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:02:34 No.36133845 Report

Quoted By: >>36133867 >>36133886

>>36133683
god newfags who obsess over stab are the worst

physical special split was a fucking mistake because people completely lose their common sense the moment it's not there

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:03:21 No.36133852 Report

Quoted By: >>36133859 >>36133879

>>36133836
It isn't. The difference between Dragonair and Dragonite is night and day. It's another Magikarp.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:04:20 No.36133859 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133852
>Magikarp
her stats aren't that fucking bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:05:12 No.36133867 Report

Quoted By: >>36133879

>>36133845
>something great is a mistake because of some retards being retards.
You are just as bad as them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:06:02 No.36133877 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133836
OP was asking about the viability of a mon, so how are you under the impression that discussing stats would not be an appropriate thing in this thread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:06:10 No.36133879 Report

Quoted By: >>36133897

>>36133852
holy shit you are retarded. dragonair has stats on par with more than a few fully evolved pokemon, just not "muh meta" ones.

who the fuck cares? you don't need a smogon team to play the game like a normal person, so grow the fuck up and stop fixating on things that don't matter (ie, competitive viability).

>>36133867
physical special split wasn't great at all, it sort of just pointlessly homogenized the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:07:10 No.36133886 Report

Quoted By: >>36133892 >>36133952

>>36133845
What are you even trying to say? Dragonite being supbar because it has no STAB move at all is a fact.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:08:17 No.36133892 Report

Quoted By: >>36133898

>>36133886
yeah man i guess gengar must have been really bad in gen 1 too

oh wait it wasn't

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:09:14 No.36133897 Report

Quoted By: >>36133907

>>36133879
>play the game like a normal person
Normal people don't even have a Dragonite. It takes so long to level that it's doomed to be used in the postgame, which consists of nothing but link battles and grinding the E4.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:09:28 No.36133898 Report

Quoted By: >>36133906 >>36133931

>>36133892
Are you fucking retarded? Where did I or anyone in this thread ever state that every mon without STAB is bad? I that that fucking Dragonite is supbar because it doesn't have STAB. Because this is a thread about Dragonite.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:10:21 No.36133906 Report

Quoted By: >>36133936

>>36133898
explain the difference between gengar not having stab being good and dragonite not having stab being bad

there isn't one, by the way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:10:34 No.36133907 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133897
Normal people don't have a Dragonair either, just look at the retarded Dragonairfags having an autistic fit

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:13:48 No.36133931 Report

Quoted By: >>36133955

>>36133898
the absolute state of newfags

the moment they can't give a pokemon a 95 base 100 acc stab move for one or both of their types they completely shit the bed and don't know how to even play the game anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:14:33 No.36133936 Report

Quoted By: >>36133953

>>36133906
Gengar is good because
- it is the fastest sleep inducer in the game
- unlike Dragonite it is not utterly outclassed by other mons.
Dragonite might see a lot more usage if it weren't for the existence of Tauros which does almost everthing Dragonite does outside of AgiliWrap but better because it has STAB and thus hits harder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:16:19 No.36133952 Report

Quoted By: >>36133959 >>36133984

>>36133886
So if, hypothetically, it had access to outrage or dragon breath in rby, would it be significantly better? Keep in mind that these would be special moves not physical

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:16:28 No.36133953 Report

Quoted By: >>36133984

>>36133936
cool but you don't get to be like OP and just say "IS DRAGONITE USELESS (NOT COUNTING ITS OBVIOUS USES)?? WTF DO I DO!?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:17:02 No.36133955 Report

Quoted By: >>36133959

>>36133931
Sorry, m8, your favourite mon just isn't good, I know it can be hard to accept.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:17:51 No.36133959 Report

Quoted By: >>36133992

>>36133952
it wouldn't. outrage wasn't all that until it got buffed to 120 base.

>>36133955
my favorite pokemon is lickitung and i've never been insecure about its competitive status, good try though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:21:20 No.36133984 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133952
Dragon Breath probably not, Outrage yes, difficult to say by how much, though. Neutral damage against almost anything is good, but Chansey could destroy it with Ice Beam when locked in Outrage. If it were normal type and get STAB Bodyslam/H-Beam it might be able to rival Tauros.

>>36133953
OP was just asking a question and I tried to answer it. He even specifically asked if there'*s something he's missing, showing awareness that his opinion must not be correct. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:23:06 No.36133992 Report

Quoted By: >>36134477

>>36133959
And I'm very happy for you about that. Why are you assuming my general stance on using mons without STAB moves when I'm discussing the viability of a single specific mon, though?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:33:58 No.36134418 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133450
Every water type knows Ice Beam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:37:42 No.36134443 Report

Quoted By: >>36134576 >>36141204

>>36133488
Tauros can't learn Surf, Agility, Thunder Wave, or Reflect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:38:49 No.36134450 Report

Quoted By: >>36136052

>>36133628
Fighting isn't irrelevant because of its movepool, it's irrelevant because of Psychic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:41:38 No.36134477 Report

Quoted By: >>36134496

>>36133992

>>Not using wrap
>>In gen 1
>>Complains Pokemon is weak because you wont do something smart

Maybe Pokemon games are too difficult for you

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:43:40 No.36134496 Report

Quoted By: >>36134642

>>36134477
>be playing Gen 1
>use Wrap Dragonite
>attack misses
>get raped by a single Ice Beam
It's that's simple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:46:05 No.36134507 Report

Quoted By: >>36134544

>>36133390
>but even in a format where anything goes
That doesn't work in his favour. In such a format you'd just use Mew.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:52:30 No.36134544 Report

Quoted By: >>36134565

>>36134507
>Mew
>not 6 Mewtwo

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:55:08 No.36134565 Report

Quoted By: >>36136530

>>36134544
Can Mewtwo learn everything that Dragonite can?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:57:26 No.36134576 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133583
>>36134443
>can't learn Earthquake
It's shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:07:29 No.36134622 Report

Quoted By: >>36141213

>>36133583
So the best coverage you can get is from Body Slam, Thunder, Ice Beam, and Surf? That's shit. You're only covering Flying, Water, Dragon, Grass, Ground, Fire and Rock, and you're not even covering them well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:10:01 No.36134642 Report

Quoted By: >>36134646

>>36134496
that's why you use Wrap Dragonair you dumbfuck, so the ice enema doesn't hurt as bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:10:52 No.36134646 Report

Quoted By: >>36134650 >>36134682

>>36134642
>use Wrap Dragonair
>run out of fucking PP because the stats are shit and I can't get Hyper Beam for a killing blow
>die

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:11:55 No.36134650 Report

Quoted By: >>36134676

>>36134646
better than getting ice water blown into your dragonite's asshole

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:18:20 No.36134676 Report

Quoted By: >>36134679

>>36134650
Alternatively, don't use any of the Dragonite line at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:18:58 No.36134679 Report

Quoted By:

>>36134676
dragonite is too sexy for me not to use her

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:19:28 No.36134682 Report

Quoted By: >>36134694

>>36134646
>I can't get Hyper Beam for a killing blow
all three forms of the Dratini line learn Hyper Beam by level up, dipshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:21:39 No.36134694 Report

Quoted By:

>>36134682
I'll be honest, I forgot that. All I remembered was that they can't learn it by TM.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 03:01:04 No.36136052 Report

Quoted By:

>>36134450
Fighting is irrelevant because of it's movepool and Psychics.
The only decent Fighting Type move is HJK (which is just modern Sky Uppercut) which is stuck on Hitmonlee who is pretty bad. Submission has 80 power and 80 acc and is the only other option for fighting types unless you want to go with 60 power 90 Acc Low Kick.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 03:09:29 No.36136112 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133450
Ice beam destroys it and almost everything and its literal mother carries it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 04:04:07 No.36136460 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133390
What it has is good bulk, if you sniff out opposing Blizzards, a good, flexible movepool that sockets into any team, and the strongest non-Stab Hyper Beam in the game.
Dragonite is, at heart, a beatstick that rounds out a team's offensive coverage, and can often straight up trade for two pokemon, assuming it doesn't get hit with Blizzard.
It's strictly worse than, say, Starmie, but brings its bulk and versatility to the table. So long as being weak to Blizzard isn't a problem, it can fill out a variety of positions decently enough.

Really, though, AgiliWrap Beam is its bread and butter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 04:06:24 No.36136484 Report

Quoted By: >>36141563

>>36133525
>true but doesn't matter much if he has no STAB move to capitalize from
anon, hardly anything benefits from stab in gen 1. like, psychic types, water types with surf, normal types with hyper beam and zapdos if you still have your thunderbolt tm

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 04:12:00 No.36136530 Report

Quoted By:

>>36134565
no but it can learn psychic, which is basically the press A to win button in gen 1

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 04:13:40 No.36136542 Report

Quoted By:

Sotto (sotto) toketeyuku you ni
Motto (motto) aishiaietara
Nani wo (nani wo) tsutaerareteno
ai wo tsumugenai meguri awase

dareka yurushite
kiranata sugataga
boku de arukoto wo
ara atowoshite
kureru yubiga furueteir

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 04:23:36 No.36136619 Report

Quoted By: >>36137860

>>36133390
Are you using it for comp or for in-game? In-game, it learns enough moves to be viable enough not to drag your team down, and most npc mons don't have good coverage so you typically don't have to worry about stray ice beams.
Just run the following set and you should be able to more or less solo the game with it.
>Blizzard
>Thunderbolt
>Hyper Beam
>Body Slam

If you're trying to use it for comp, then no shit it sucks, it's x4 weak to the best attacking type in the game. If you aren't running it for the gimmick, you're better off with another Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 07:31:10 No.36137544 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133525
Besides flying stab. So basically it's a big fat tanky bird lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 08:58:48 No.36137860 Report

Quoted By: >>36138498

>>36136619
>are you using it for in-game
So I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but how could anyone ever answer that question with a yes? Getting a Dragonite takes so fucking long that I can't see it being done prior to the postgame.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Shot_064.png, 255KiB, 683x388

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 11:13:19 No.36138421 Report

Quoted By:

Hu, unexpected.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 11:29:45 No.36138466 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133390
I use one on stadium purely for its useful resistances. Its my anti plant/bug since I don't want a fire type in Gen 1. Its got Fire Blast, Body Slam, Agility, and Hyper Beam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 11:44:48 No.36138498 Report

Quoted By:

>>36137860
When the game is being played by a kid they probably wouldn't notice or care. Like, kids just like to play video game, and so you would sometimes just sit down and play pokemon for far more hours than necessary just wandering around and grinding because that was the game you liked.

Knew a friend who had like 700 or something hours in his Sapphire file because he would just like to go out and wander aimlessly in the world for hours on end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 12:31:44 No.36138665 Report

Quoted By:

>>36133450
>resists grass, water, fire, fighting (bug too)
Irrelevant expect water
>can learn almost every strong move
Which are non stab and outclassed by other pokémon

Also almost any meta pokémon carries ice beam or blizzard. Wrapless Dragonite is pretty shitty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 12:34:00 No.36138679 Report

Quoted By: >>36138841

>>36133836

>Thread about the usability of a certain pokémon in a certain metagame
>didn't know this was a competitive autism thread

You're the dumbest person I've seen this year congrats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 13:18:42 No.36138841 Report

Quoted By:

>>36138679
>in a certain metagame
You mean, gen 1?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 17:41:20 No.36140246 Report

Quoted By: >>36140686

>>36133390
Agility and Wrap. You're welcome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 19:15:20 No.36140686 Report

Quoted By:

>>36140246
>miss Wrap
>die

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 20:40:13 No.36141204 Report

Quoted By: >>36141564

>>36134443
Stab Body Slam

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 20:41:34 No.36141213 Report

Quoted By: >>36141557

>>36134622
Bolt/beam is great coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 21:41:44 No.36141557 Report

Quoted By: >>36141584

>>36141213
Bolt/Beam? Thunderbolt only gives you coverages for Flying and Water, Ice Beam gives you Flying and so much more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 21:42:42 No.36141563 Report

Quoted By:

>>36136484
What are yu talking about? Zam has psychic STAB, Eggy has psychic STAB, Tauras has Bodyslam H-Beam STAB, Snorlax has Bodyslam/H-Beam/SD stab, Rhydon has EQ/Rockslide STAB, Golem has EQ STAB, Starmie has Surf/Psychic STAB, Cloyster has Surf/Blizzard STAB... I could go on. Literally the only decent OU mons that don't usually run STAB moves are Gengar and Chansey.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 21:42:57 No.36141564 Report

Quoted By: >>36141609

>>36141204
Good, but not maybe not good enough to replace Surf and Thunder Wave?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 21:46:15 No.36141584 Report

Quoted By:

>>36141557
Bolt/Beam is for very good reasons considered the bread and butter coverage option in gen 1. With just these two moves you hit literally every single gen 1 Pokemon at least neutrally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 21:50:30 No.36141609 Report

Quoted By:

>>36141564
Tauros does not need Surf. With Bodyslam/Blizzard/EQ it hits everything neutrally. Even if Tauros would be able to learn Surf no one who knows what he's doing would run it. Thunder Wave is a decent option for Dragonite, but again it doesn't really suit Tauros. Tauros is a late game sweeper, it wants to have the best coverage possible. To run T-Wave you'd neet to give up a move of it's core set and thus it's supreme coverage.

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