/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #36163974

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How do we solve the HM problem?

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:42:27 No.36163974 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>36163993 >>36163995 >>36163998 >>36164023 >>36164061 >>36164090 >>36164094 >>36164105 >>36164107 >>36164117 >>36164247 >>36164377 >>36164461 >>36164581

I really dislike the rental pokemons at S/M or USUM. It feels dispersonal because it is not your team of 6. Same deal with the talking rotomdex

Weaving HMs into your team kind of limit your options. You need physical flying pokemon for Fly, special water pokemon for surf and bunch of shitmons for Cut and Flash.

Having HM slave is the obvious option, but then it cuts your option from 6 to 5

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:47:11 No.36163993 Report

Quoted By: >>36164006 >>36164190

>>36163974
Key items that work like HMs

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:47:32 No.36163995 Report

Quoted By: >>36164019 >>36164078 >>36164437

>>36163974
enable the use of field moves to pokemon capable of using them without having any of them be a part of their movesets.

that is to say, for example, a Charizard should be able to use Cut, Fly, Strength, Flash, Defog, and Rock Smash anytime as long as you have the appropriate Gym Badge to unlock those moves.

the same should go for the likes of Dig, Teleport, Sweet Scent, Headbutt, and anything else that's introduced and has an on-field function as long as the pokemon was taught that move via TM once before or is at or above the level it would learn these moves naturally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:48:06 No.36163998 Report

Quoted By: >>36164011

>>36163974
Nah, the ride pokemon are fine.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:48:29 No.36164002 Report

Quoted By: >>36164241

Give pokemon one non combat ability slot

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:48:46 No.36164006 Report

Quoted By:

>>36163993
literally the only suggestion that's actually worse than Poke-Ride.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:49:48 No.36164011 Report

Quoted By: >>36164019

>>36163998
yeah if you don't like having an adventure and just want to be chaperoned through a pokemon amusement park by pokemon you neither own nor earn

*****

***** Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:50:06 No.36164013 Report

Quoted By:

>>36163975

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:51:33 No.36164019 Report

Quoted By: >>36164038

>>36164011
They work literaly the same as HM pokemon. Gameplay-wise it is much less restrictive. I guess, it is a case of the 'tism but the only real solution is what >>36163995 proposes but GF is too shit for that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:51:47 No.36164023 Report

Quoted By: >>36164062

>>36163974
Make it so that you can clear the obstacle with ANY move that would make sense.
Any move that features any sort of slashing at all would be usable in place of Cut (what's more, any Fire move would be able to burn them), any Flying move would work like Fly in the overworld, any blunt physical move would work as Strength, and so on.
As for how to tie this to progression, make it so that your trainer needs to learn the command to properly instruct their Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:54:57 No.36164038 Report

Quoted By: >>36164049

>>36164019
those are both my post, and yes, you're right. game freak is too shit to admit they made a mistake.

if, for example, Ride Pokemon were mons you actually sought out and captured for yourself (or, god forbid, had to train to evolve to an appropriate form to travel on, like having to level your own carvanha 1-3 levels to get sharpedo) in order to unlock, maybe it would be the same or feel closer to being earned, but instead you're basically just handed fucking animals to call from out of nowhere to carry you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:56:42 No.36164049 Report

Quoted By: >>36164068

>>36164038
How is that diferent from getting handed an HM?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:58:14 No.36164056 Report

Quoted By:

I'm unsure what to do about this since to have specific barriers you need specific abilities to clear, you need specific pokemon to do them. It's quite possible you will never get any pokemon that can use that ability, so how do you ensure you can use the ability without needing the pokemon that uses it? The easier thing would be to just not have the obstacles at all and make some other way to block off access until a certain point. The other would just have your character able to perform the actions themselves. (perhaps also limited to progress) Or we fuck that noise and anyone that is resourceful enough can pass the obstacles regardless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:58:51 No.36164061 Report

Quoted By: >>36164086

>>36163974
The rentals are perfect. Making it more restrictive is going to be shit. Maybe add the option to use your own pokemon if appropriate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:58:54 No.36164062 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164023
>Any move that features any sort of slashing at all would be usable in place of Cut

Exactly.

Just this very post illustrates how ass backwards it is that such an austere game mechanic be in place for nearly 15 years of a franchise's life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 00:59:22 No.36164068 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164049
the HM doesn't help you to explore, your pokemon companions do. HMs are outdated, yes, and I think field moves should be available immediately, but i don't think the answer is to itemize them completely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:02:11 No.36164078 Report

Quoted By: >>36164088 >>36164100

>>36163995

This.

Instead of Cut, you get an item, like a Slash Claw or something. If your team has any Pokemon that can learn Cut, Slash, Night Slash, etc, you can cut down trees with a "Pokemon used the Slash Claw to cut it down!" message.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:03:06 No.36164086 Report

Quoted By: >>36164103

>>36164061
this, just add the option and keep the rental system
don't force me to use x pokemon in my team

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:03:39 No.36164088 Report

Quoted By: >>36165303

>>36164078
yes but cut out the middleman entirely

a scyther shouldn't need a "slash claw" to cut something down.

"Scyther CUT away the debris!" happening after you have the appropriate badge is enough

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:03:56 No.36164090 Report

Quoted By:

>>36163974
HMs are an inherently shit concept to begin with, they're just your standard JRPG "get item to bypass roadblock" in the form of a Pokemon's moveslot, and PokeRide is reverting the whole thing back into its primal form.
With how roadblocked and linear modern games are to begin with, you really wonder why HMs, PokeRide or any of it is even necessary to begin with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:04:34 No.36164094 Report

Quoted By:

>>36163974
There's the option of boosting the current moves so they aren't totally shit. Maybe make Cut 70 base power grass move with a high crit rate. Make Flash lower accuracy 2 or 3 stages. Make Strength a Fighting type move. Ditch Rock Smash, Rock Climb, Whirlpool, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:05:41 No.36164100 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164078
Well now that makes three of us who are on the same page we should e-mail Nintendo of America and suggest it and then it will actually have a chance of being implemented in the game after the next instead of just being a pipe dream

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:05:52 No.36164103 Report

Quoted By: >>36164122 >>36164622

>>36164086
>don't force me to use X pokemon in my team
guess this idiot doesn't deserve to get to cinnabar island

this is an adventure not an elementary school field trip, grow the fuck up and capture shit that does what you need it to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:06:05 No.36164105 Report

Quoted By: >>36164113

>>36163974
Easy. Have a separate moveset for learning field moves.

Maybe they could still be used in battles too , giving you more options instead of taking them away. Plus it'd feel super casualized which precisely what they're aiming for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:06:26 No.36164107 Report

Quoted By:

>>36163974
Is that a Van Darkholme charizard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:06:53 No.36164113 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164105
nope, we have rentals now, too late to go back

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:07:43 No.36164117 Report

Quoted By: >>36164130

>>36163974
It could be accomplished similar to Pokémon ranger. With pokémon having passive abilities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:08:04 No.36164122 Report

Quoted By: >>36164130 >>36164133

>>36164103
nope, we have rentals now, too late to go back

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:09:10 No.36164130 Report

Quoted By: >>36164136

>>36164122
NuPokemon was a fucking mistake

>>36164117
Pokemon Ranger should have taught the main series devs a lesson

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:09:47 No.36164133 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164122
And that's unironically a good thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:09:52 No.36164134 Report

Quoted By: >>36164183

There is literally nothing wrong with HMs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:10:01 No.36164136 Report

Quoted By: >>36164142 >>36164153

>>36164130
let me have the choice, it's either that ot let me use a fucking boat, forcing a water type on my team is retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:10:37 No.36164142 Report

Quoted By: >>36164154 >>36164159

>>36164136
put it back in your box you fucking mongoloid

what kind of pathetic loser plays pokemon to only capture 5 mons and nothing else

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:11:47 No.36164153 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164136
You're making it sound like Water Types are the only Pokemon who can learn Surf, when there's plenty of Non-Water Types who can, who would actually greatly appreciate it for the most part because Water is a solid type to have on a Pokemon's moveset.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:12:05 No.36164154 Report

Quoted By: >>36164158

>>36164142
Just don't use rentals then, huh? Glad you're mad that we got rentals sweetie and they're here to stay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:12:52 No.36164158 Report

Quoted By: >>36164188

>>36164154
by that logic everything LGPE is obligated to stay in the main series forever

you get what you deserve for eating shit and asking for more

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:13:04 No.36164159 Report

Quoted By: >>36164192

>>36164142
that's still dumb, as much as forcing a water/grass type to see brock
also
>not going on aventure with your team of 6 bros

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:15:02 No.36164177 Report

Quoted By: >>36164320

You do realize that with the exception of gen 5, up to gen 6, you HAD to have at least one mon as a HM slave. You CAN'T have a full team of 6 without rotation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:15:56 No.36164183 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164134
>having to carry around hm slaves

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:16:46 No.36164188 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164158
Seething. My suggestion was to add more options while not forcing you to put shit in your team. Hell, combine obtaining the rentals with catching a pokemon or whatever if you're so scared of "dumbing down". Just don't want to run back to the PC all the time. I certainly wouldn't be defending the gym requirements or dumb shit like that.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:16:50 No.36164190 Report

Quoted By: >>36164215

>>36163993
Field moves from Ranger made perfect sense.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:17:25 No.36164192 Report

Quoted By: >>36164235

>>36164159
>needing a strong pokemon that can push boulders to push boulders on your adventure is the same as being forced to bring a win button to every boss fight
so desperate, and so boring.

you just might have to be fucking five years old to think renting a pokemon you summon from literally your ass to do everything for you is better than solving problems with your own companions. enjoy your fucking kantoooo, shithead. you've earned it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:19:01 No.36164207 Report

Quoted By:

HM moves can be replaced at any time.
Key items that can be used in the place of HM moves can be obtained via small quests or exploration.
Half of the HMs are only required for optional areas and quests, not mainline progression.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:19:47 No.36164215 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164190
simply allowing you to add any pokemon you capture in a full party of six to be swapped with one of your party members is enough to make the ranger-style dream come true. if you don't have what you need to progress, capture something in the area to get by, like a resourceful adventurer should. waiting in line at disneyland for your free memezard to fast travel is downright idiotic.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:23:36 No.36164235 Report

Quoted By: >>36164268

>>36164192
>catching and using a pokemon just for x
>my "companion"
that doesn't make any sense

maybe they'll add eventually options to use the strength of the pokemon on our party to overcome obstacles, but the concept of rental will never leave dude

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:24:24 No.36164241 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164002

Then I still have to have a fucking bird/fish/pokemon that can learn rock smash but not strength for some reason/pokemon that learns strength but not cut/etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:25:13 No.36164247 Report

Quoted By: >>36164415

>>36163974
Imagine if you could rent pokemon for some "other" services, haha.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:26:16 No.36164255 Report

Quoted By: >>36164264 >>36164270

like pokeride but you have a certain box within the pc, you put pokemon youve caught that can fly, break rocks, surf, etc. and pokeride can spawn them in when you need them. also if you want to use mons within your party, maybe like registering them if they are able to assist? i dont know. so many possibilities and routes but GF will do something bullshit and lazy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:27:34 No.36164264 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164255
This is actually a sensible suggestion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:28:22 No.36164268 Report

Quoted By: >>36164282 >>36164298

>>36164235
>so soulless that they only see pokemon as tools
>won't even consider budging to overcome adversity, their team is set in stone before it's even complete
you know, usually your kind are the rivals who learn a lesson by the end of the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:28:36 No.36164270 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164255

I'd be okay with this. Functionally the same as pokeride, but still adds some agency for the player in order to catch pokemon and they are your pokemon. Downside is gamefreak would go back to generic shadow pokemon riding in the overworld because the player riding a pidgey to fly would look ridiculous

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:30:19 No.36164282 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164268
The evil guys win this time though. :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:32:25 No.36164298 Report

Quoted By: >>36164315

>>36164268
no matter at what angle you're looking at it, you're just using them as tools in the context you bring when it's not usually on your team

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:35:39 No.36164315 Report

Quoted By: >>36164328 >>36164351

>>36164298
>not making substitutions, possibly even permanently if the new pokemon suits you
>not capturing pokemon that appeal to you as you find them and building your team organically
i feel sorry for you. the moment you're building your teams before you even start the game the magic is gone, whether you know it yet or not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:36:32 No.36164320 Report

Quoted By: >>36164328

>>36164177
How come I was able to in Red just recently then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:38:23 No.36164328 Report

Quoted By: >>36164359

>>36164315
>not just sweeping everything with a single overleveled mon :^)
>>36164320
>putting useless moves on your shitmons
Yikes!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:44:02 No.36164351 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164315
to each their own, i prefer to see all of them growing on the entire adventure without gruelessly putting any of them on the side, in the end only 6 can finish the game

it feels more like an adventure to me

but maybe this will change with the box system of lgpe since we can change pokemon at any time now, who know

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:45:14 No.36164359 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164328
Flash on my Hypno was incredibly useful for catching the legendary birds you pleb.
Strength and Cut were nice when I didn't want to waste PP and Surf was Gyarados' best stab up to the middle of the E4. Fly is also not a bad move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:47:54 No.36164377 Report

Quoted By: >>36164391 >>36164408 >>36164419 >>36164435

>>36163974
Assign a Field Move to every species
>Clawed pokemon get Cut
>Fire-types get Thaw to melt ice if there's ice in the region
>Aquatic Pokemon get Surf
>Semiaquatic and ambibious pokemon get Waterfall
>Flying pokemon get Fly
>Psychic-types get Teleport
>Muscular pokemon get strength
>Burrowing Pokemon get Dig
>Ridable Pokemon get that Rhyhorn/Mudsdale rough terrain shit

and so forth

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:51:17 No.36164391 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164377
and make Teleport functionally the same as Fly

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:57:01 No.36164408 Report

Quoted By: >>36164420 >>36164426

>>36164377
This is even worse than HMs. Congratulations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:58:29 No.36164415 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164247
That Charizard has really nice gear on. I wonder what it's for? Haha.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:59:14 No.36164419 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164377
So Ranger style passive abilities?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 01:59:20 No.36164420 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164408
no, it's even better than hms so thank you for the congratulation

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:00:16 No.36164426 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164408
Wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:01:15 No.36164430 Report

Quoted By:

CGOD solved the problem nicely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:02:11 No.36164435 Report

Quoted By: >>36164460 >>36164463

>>36164377
what if the pokemon can't do any of those things like Gastly or Tentaquil or Weezing

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:02:49 No.36164437 Report

Quoted By:

>>36163995
this 100%

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:02:50 No.36164439 Report

Quoted By:

Make it so that Pokemon capable of using the move don't have to actually fill a move slot with it to use it. If you have the HM and a compatible Pokemon, you don't need to teach them it, they'll just be able to use it.

Widen the pool for each a bit so that a reasonably balanced team you'd probably make on your own can access the majority of them, and you're done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:07:28 No.36164460 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164435
>Tentaquil

Ghastly could phase throw obstacles and drifloon can lift you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:07:55 No.36164461 Report

Quoted By:

>>36163974
Pokemon can now learn infinite "field" moves.
Field moves being moves from the Pokemon Move Pool you will only use in the field. So you can have Cut, Strength, Surf, Waterfall, Flash, ect on Mew as field moves, but said moves won't affect your regular battle move set unless you also teach those moves in its battle move set.
Now HMs don't take up a move slot, you don't need a HM slave, and its more personal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:08:30 No.36164463 Report

Quoted By: >>36164483

>>36164435
Weezing could create smokescreens, float your character or something of the sort.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:12:09 No.36164483 Report

Quoted By: >>36164621

>>36164463
why would you ever need to be smokescreened in a pokemon game

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:32:56 No.36164581 Report

Quoted By:

>>36163974
Why not just have both? You have the Ride Pager, but you can swap out the established Pokemon with your own, and you can use them regardless of whether or not they're in your PC box.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:36:33 No.36164605 Report

Quoted By:

Either make HMs be forgettable like TMs and give several moves the effects of HMs.

Like a Pokemon knowing Aqua Jet or Waterfall can surf, Brick Break or any punching move is Rock Smash, Teleport and Extreme Speed are Fly, X-scissor or any cutting move is Cut, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:42:35 No.36164621 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164483
Reduce opposing trainers visibility or as a pseudo repel, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 02:42:40 No.36164622 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164103
The beginning of this thread was bitching about HM slaves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 04:41:41 No.36165272 Report

Quoted By:

Pokemon naturally have attributes such as "Light", "Fly", "Swim", "Dive", "Smash", "Cut", etc

However you require Gym Badges to act as licences

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 04:46:25 No.36165303 Report

Quoted By:

>>36164088
I like this, sorta like instead of your pokemon learning a move after beating a gym it gets strong enough to cut away debris or carry you while it flies/surf or illuminate a cave

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How do we solve the HM problem?