/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #36205681

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Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 17:58:03 No.36205681 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>36205691 >>36205731 >>36207236 >>36209266 >>36213813

Zeraora is clearly dropping from OU soon now that new toy syndrome is over. The question is, will it stay in UU or be banished to UUBL purgatory?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 17:59:05 No.36205691 Report

Quoted By:

>>36205681
PU at best.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 18:00:21 No.36205699 Report

Quoted By:

easy UUBL

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 18:07:38 No.36205731 Report

Quoted By: >>36205738 >>36205754 >>36205810 >>36207198

>>36205681
Nigger, Zeraora is one of the few actual counters to fucking protean greninja and actually has a wide enough moveset to cover most of greninja's movepool.

Zeraora probably won't go anywhere for a while

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 18:09:14 No.36205738 Report

Quoted By: >>36205760

>>36205731
Counter? How does it safely switch in on Greninja?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 18:09:24 No.36205740 Report

Quoted By:

When's that piece of shit coming out in NA anyway?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1527651605963.png, 121KiB, 700x700

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 18:11:19 No.36205754 Report

Quoted By:

>>36205731
>actual counters to fucking protean greninja

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 18:12:41 No.36205760 Report

Quoted By: >>36205776 >>36209254 >>36210954 >>36210989 >>36211007

>>36205738
Zeraora actually outspeeds it my dude. Plus it has a high enough special defense that greninja can't OHKO it with anything.

Unless hidden power ground actually turns greninja into the ground type. I'm genuinely asking because I've never seen a greninja with HP ground

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 18:15:04 No.36205776 Report

Quoted By: >>36205783

>>36205760
Hidden power doesn't work with protean iirc

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 18:16:54 No.36205783 Report

Quoted By:

>>36205776
it does

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 18:21:49 No.36205810 Report

Quoted By:

>>36205731
>counter
you mean check

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 21:57:43 No.36207198 Report

Quoted By:

>>36205731
>Zeraora is one of the few actual counters to fucking protean greninja
>can't switch in on it
>can't trap it
>can't wallbreak on the switch
>easily walled in return
>can't outspeed scarf greninja unless it also runs a scarf
>can't recover the damage taken from switching into a pivoting greninja
Can it even ohko Spikes Greninja?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 22:03:27 No.36207236 Report

Quoted By:

>>36205681
RU by the end of the year

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 03:56:13 No.36209254 Report

Quoted By:

>>36205760

I've legitimately seen Z-Dig Greninja before, not sure about HP-Ground though

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 03:58:04 No.36209266 Report

Quoted By:

>>36205681
Zeraora will probably be UU. I can't see it making UUBL, but I also don't see it dropping to RU either unless there is severe power creep in later games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 17:53:36 No.36210954 Report

Quoted By: >>36211804 >>36211812

>>36205760
>Greninja can't OHKO it
Don't most Proteans run Extrasensory now so they can rape Toxapex? I don't think Zeroara can tank that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 17:59:20 No.36210989 Report

Quoted By: >>36211607

>>36205760
That’s a check, not a counter

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 18:02:40 No.36211007 Report

Quoted By:

>>36205760
That's called a check tho. A counter is usually a roadblock the poke fails to kill no matter how much it tries (ex:Ferrothorn vs every water type ever before B2W2).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 18:57:35 No.36211328 Report

Quoted By: >>36211406

Wait a minute, Protean Greninja still hasn't been banned yet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 19:12:15 No.36211406 Report

Quoted By:

>>36211328
it doesnt need to be, its not that hard to play around once you figure out its set

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:00:44 No.36211607 Report

Quoted By: >>36211671

>>36210989
No, it can switch in and out speed

It's a counter

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:10:30 No.36211671 Report

Quoted By: >>36211684

>>36211607
zeraora takes like 50% from a non lo hydro pump on the switch in
same goes for gunk shot and dark pulse

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:12:27 No.36211684 Report

Quoted By: >>36211696

>>36211671
Yes, that makes it a bad counter, not a check (since it outspeeds)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:13:58 No.36211696 Report

Quoted By: >>36211713

>>36211684
If thats the case then Pheromosa and Deoxys-S can counter almost everything since they outspeed and shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:15:50 No.36211713 Report

Quoted By: >>36211721

>>36211696
>Pheromosa and Deoxys-s
>surviving a hit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:17:14 No.36211721 Report

Quoted By: >>36211741 >>36211887

>>36211713
What if they have Focus Sash? Do they become a counter then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:20:02 No.36211735 Report

Quoted By:

I swear getting /vp/ to learn the meaning of a counter is harder than explaining the off-side rule to women.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:20:55 No.36211741 Report

Quoted By: >>36211781

>>36211721
>if X Pokemon can safely switch in and OKHO the opponent, is it a counter?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:25:10 No.36211781 Report

Quoted By: >>36211808

>>36211741
What im trying to say with that example is that Zeraora is not a counter to Greninja, it can maybe survive a hit but cannot switch in safely all the time

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:27:58 No.36211804 Report

Quoted By:

>>36210954
uhh I got some news for ya...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:28:59 No.36211808 Report

Quoted By: >>36211840

>>36211781
>but cannot switch in safely all the time
Literally every counter can't switch in safely if it's worn down enough

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:29:38 No.36211812 Report

Quoted By:

>>36210954
Extrasensory isn't common on Greninja at all

Most Protean Greninja now are Choice Scarf sets with Ice Beam, Spikes, Gunk Shot, and U-turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:34:20 No.36211840 Report

Quoted By: >>36211865 >>36212180

>>36211808
Zeraora gets 2HKO by an Hydro Pump even unboosted, which means it can only "safely" switch in once, a counter would be able to switch many more times than that

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:39:36 No.36211865 Report

Quoted By: >>36211873

>>36211840
>a counter would be able to switch many more times than that
You literally just made this up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:41:31 No.36211873 Report

Quoted By: >>36211879 >>36211916

>>36211865
>Pokémon A counters Pokémon B if Pokémon A can manually switch into Pokémon B and still win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:43:09 No.36211879 Report

Quoted By:

>>36211873
Exactly. Thanks for posting this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:44:35 No.36211887 Report

Quoted By: >>36211909

>>36211721
Stealth rocks, anon. No counter can rely on a sash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:48:02 No.36211909 Report

Quoted By: >>36211916

>>36211887
You know i wasnt being serious right? I used this "example" to show that a pokemon surviving a hit and being able to outspeed doesnt mean its a counter like the other anon was implying. Pheromosa and Deoxys-S arent counters to anything, barely checks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:49:02 No.36211916 Report

Quoted By: >>36211924

>>36211909
>I used this "example" to show that a pokemon surviving a hit and being able to outspeed doesnt mean its a counter like the other anon was implying
It literally does, assuming the Pokemon that survives can also OKHO the opponent.
Read >>36211873 again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:50:14 No.36211924 Report

Quoted By: >>36211934

>>36211916
>even under the worst case scenario
Did you forgot to read that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:52:36 No.36211934 Report

Quoted By: >>36211978

>>36211924
That's referring to rolls. If Zeraora can switch in, survive any hit and OKHO, then it is a counter. Your made-up rule about counters having to survive many hits isn't in the true definition of counter that you just posted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 20:58:25 No.36211978 Report

Quoted By: >>36212049

>>36211934
Read Smogon's definition of checks and counters (https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue32/checks-and-counters), they show a example between Mamoswine and Bisharp, its praticly the same example in this situation, if you read about it than you will understand what a counter is. Zeraora is maybe a check to Greninja, but definetly not a counter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 21:12:14 No.36212049 Report

Quoted By: >>36212076

>>36211978
>Has a chance of fainting upon switching
>It's the same situation!
You are retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 21:15:51 No.36212076 Report

Quoted By: >>36212107

>>36212049
Still not convinced i see, well im not going to waste my time any longer, keep having this dream of Zeraora being a counter, i can asure you you're the only person who thinks that. Dont call me retard for seeing the truth and still bot accepting it. Altough i believe you were just baiting this whole time, no one would be this delusional.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 21:20:44 No.36212107 Report

Quoted By: >>36212164

>>36212076
A Pokemon that can switch in safely and THEN win every time is a counter. There's nothing more to it than this.

If Zeraora could switch every time and OKHO Greninja no matter what, than it would be a counter.

The example you posted has Mamoswine NOT being able to switch in safely, so it's clearly not the same situation.

Even you should understand this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 21:28:11 No.36212157 Report

Quoted By:

I use it as a revenge killer on my team, worth using for the speed and typing synergy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 21:30:12 No.36212164 Report

Quoted By: >>36212180

>>36212107
>switch in safely and THEN win every time is a counter
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zeraora: 274-324 (86.4 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Zeraora can POTENTIALLY be OHKO by Greninja with Choice Specs, a "counter" would be able to withstand any common Greninja set. Yes, Zeraora can survive POTENTIALLY survive, outspeed and OHKO Greninja, but the fact that is not guaranteed means its not "every time" like you implied, how is that so hard to understand?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 21:33:11 No.36212180 Report

Quoted By: >>36212197

>>36212164
See, this is a good reason why Zeraora isn't a counter.
Saying "Zeraora gets 2HKO by an Hydro Pump even unboosted, which means it can only "safely" switch in once, a counter would be able to switch many more times than that" like you did >>36211840 is still wrong though, and so is your made up rule about counters having to be able to switch in safely multiple times. What I was arguing was the definiton of counter, not Zeroara being a counter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 21:36:48 No.36212197 Report

Quoted By:

>>36212180
Okay sorry i shouldnt have said "switch many more times than that", obviously any pokemon can get KOed if its damaged enough, even if its supposed to counter the opponent, i was just trying to prove why Zeraora isnt a counter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 01:56:11 No.36213813 Report

Quoted By: >>36213822

>>36205681
What is that

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 31 Jul 2018 01:56:49 No.36213822 Report

Quoted By:

>>36213813
a Pokemon

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