/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #36324510

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1MiB, 980x1154, Lt._Surge_Sabrina_Adventures.png

Anonymous Thu 16 Aug 2018 19:16:44 No.36324510 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>36324527 >>36325725 >>36326762 >>36326792 >>36329079 >>36333596 >>36334303 >>36334494

What's the idea behind making Surge and Sabrina Rockets? I don't dislike it, I just don't get it and I was wondering if there was some thematic reasoning behind it. Does Pokemon Adventures ever explain their motivations or the ideologies that lead to them working for Giovanni?

The Lieutenant seems like an asshole, but in-game, Sabrina's actually pretty nice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Aug 2018 19:19:40 No.36324527 Report

Quoted By:

>>36324510
There is none.
Kusaka do whatever he want , like the fact he portrayed the Kanto E4 as a proto Team Plasma.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Aug 2018 22:45:38 No.36325725 Report

Quoted By: >>36326771 >>36326792

>>36324510
Team Rocket originally had no named members besides Giovanni, Kusaka decided to take one-off established characters instead of making OCs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Aug 2018 23:56:02 No.36326085 Report

Quoted By: >>36326693 >>36326771 >>36326792 >>36331081

The Gym Leaders and E4 felt very antagonistic in Gen 1 so it's not surprising that someone would paint them as villains.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 02:02:46 No.36326693 Report

Quoted By:

>>36326085
Didn't they sorta do the same with Johto?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 02:18:53 No.36326762 Report

Quoted By: >>36326792 >>36326855 >>36334452 >>36335122 >>36336576

>>36324510
>Sabrina's actually pretty nice

She stripped away the Fighting Dojo's Pokemon Gym status despite claiming she doesn't like to fight, and she's one of the few trainers in the game to wield a whip, a trait most commonly seen with the villainous Team Rocket thugs. Furthermore, considering some Psychic Pokemon are so intelligent that they sound like they'd be as sentient in Pokedex descriptions, it's like Sabrina's actively whipping people. Add in how most Gen I Psychic Pokemon were based on creepy mystics and pentagrams and you have some great material for making a villain. It's also probably why the anime made Sabrina a frightening figure who tried to kill people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 02:20:22 No.36326771 Report

Quoted By: >>36326792 >>36327562

>>36326085
You're looking way too into it, like >>36325725 says, TR didn't have too many characters, making the Gym Leaders part of TR kills 2 birds with one stone by writing gym leaders into the story while also advancing the Team Rocket plotline. If he kept them separate you'd have what the anime did and basically have 2 separate plots of Red trying to get all the gym badges while simultaneously thwarting TR and that'd just be lame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 02:26:31 No.36326792 Report

Quoted By: >>36330947

>>36324510
no official reason betyond what >>36325725
>>36326085
>>36326762
>>36326771
have all said.

if anyone wants, I can give my own shitty headcanon ideas, or rather what I would use in a 'frankly grim dark and stupidly edgy' kanto remake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 02:38:51 No.36326855 Report

Quoted By: >>36327562 >>36333641 >>36334452

This guy >>36326762 again. Surge and Sabrina were also probably chosen to be villains because they were some of the tougher gym leaders, thus making the faction split feel more tense and dramatic. The good gym leaders were the early-game (and I guess closer to the idealized innocent start of the journey) Brock and Misty, with Erika as the backup. Blaine was the saving grace and best bet to stand up to Giovanni, what with being the (typically) 7th gym leader to Giovanni's 8th spot.

Regarding Koga, he was probably an easy pick for a villain because ninjas typically use shady, dishonorable tricks, mainly for assassinations, and he specialized in poison. Another interesting thing is that some of the villainous gym leaders were from places where Team Rocket had a presence in the games (the invasion of Saffron and Giovanni's Pokemon largely being from the Safari Zone).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 04:53:42 No.36327533 Report

Quoted By:

Pokemon special humans are really ugly

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 04:59:46 No.36327562 Report

Quoted By:

>>36326855
Do the good gym leaders do anything?

>>36326771
>Add in how most Gen I Psychic Pokemon were based on creepy mystics and pentagrams
>Alakazam
>Hypno
>Jynx
>Starmie
I can't believe I never noticed that

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:43:58 No.36329018 Report

Quoted By:

Bump

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 13:07:57 No.36329079 Report

Quoted By: >>36329510 >>36334452 >>36336025

>>36324510
Sabrina, Lt. Surge, and Koga always stuck out as being the 3 most, for lack of a better word, "ominous" gym leaders in Kanto (Surge saying how he electrocuted people in a war, Koga being a ninja, and Sabrina having mysterious psychic powers). Also Sabrina just looks really good in a Team Rocket uniform.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 15:39:26 No.36329510 Report

Quoted By: >>36335613

>>36329079
>Surge saying how he electrocuted people in a war

not sure it makes a difference but here's his dialogue apparently:

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lt._Surge#Pok.C3.A9mon_Red.2C_Blue.2C_and_Yellow

so it might be less that he electrocuted people out of enjoyment and more that he ended up in a bad spot and they moved to save him.

as a soldier I wouldn't be surprised if he normally carried more than just electric types but that made him favor them.

But that's all stipulation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 20:55:21 No.36330947 Report

Quoted By:

>>36326792
>if anyone wants, I can give my own shitty headcanon ideas, or rather what I would use in a 'frankly grim dark and stupidly edgy' kanto remake.
Post it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 21:19:29 No.36331081 Report

Quoted By: >>36332131

>>36326085
this
surprised they didn't delve into the concept more in the games, especially connecting Blaine/Mr. Fuji to the Pokemon mansion. I kind of like it though because it generates a lot of overlooked lore that isn't spoonfed by GF. Adds an air of mystery to the whole thing that really suits gen I.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 00:31:42 No.36332131 Report

Quoted By:

>>36331081
I do kind of miss when there was a mystery to pokemon.

Where they were just outlier creatures in an otherwise mundane world that was starting to build itself around them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 00:34:31 No.36332148 Report

Quoted By: >>36332355 >>36335613

sabrina was made a rocket member in the manga because the manga author misinterpreted her original sprite. thats all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 01:19:02 No.36332355 Report

Quoted By:

>>36332148
So it was the whip.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 05:46:55 No.36333596 Report

Quoted By: >>36334048

>>36324510
screw it: edgy idea time.

If I were asked to make a 'deepest lore' Kanto, I'd probably do the 'team rocket' gym leaders thing in the following way:
>Sabrina was recruited as her psychic powers were developing as a child and welcomed by Giovanni when her own parents were afraid, she genuinely does not get Team Rocket is doing anything wrong, to her they're her family and they've only been nice to her.
>Lt. Surge couldn't find work or a steady job after returning home to Unova, not helped he pissed off a few superiors prioritizing his men/pokemon over the mission. Giovanni recognized Surge's combat skills and tactical gifts and offered him work in Kanto. Surge was reluctant, but he didn't want to sign up for another tour of duty
>Koga's clan been in a long, steady decline. Desperate to do more than historical reenactments and run a gym infamous for 'weak typing' and being reviewed for replacement by the league, he accepted Giovanni's offer for a 'return to tradition'. Koga was not prepared for what giovanni had planned, but he had a daughter to think about
>Blaine: brilliant scientist with some somewhat wild theories... Pretty much writes itself. but Giovanni was annoyed when Blaine and Fuji turned out to be the 'moral' mad scientist types than the 'amoral' types

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 05:56:57 No.36333641 Report

Quoted By: >>36335613

>>36326855
>they were some of the tougher gym leaders,
I always thought in my headcanon that Brock, Misty, Erika and Blaine are "nature elements" while Lightning (when generated), Poison and Psychic, are something more related to man, but it's just a dumb headcanon of mine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 07:58:33 No.36334048 Report

Quoted By:

>>36333596
That's not actually bad, anon.
I don't understand what the fuck /vp/ thinks qualifies as edgy anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 09:48:09 No.36334303 Report

Quoted By:

>>36324510
Plot line that divided 8 leaders into 4 good and 4 evil ones

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 10:41:12 No.36334452 Report

Quoted By:

>>36326762
>>36326855
>>36329079
These. Brock and Misty could never work as villains, largely because the general public's view on them had already been shaped by the TV show--given how if you read the manga, the assumption they made was that you were probably playing the games and watching the show, too. It was much easier to convince the reader that Surge, Koga, and Sabrina, characters who had been portrayed as intimidating, ominous characters in the other forms of Pokémon media, could be villains on the side, whereas trying to convince them that Brock and Misty could be villains would've required a lot more effect and been less believable and accepted by the general reader.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 11:00:09 No.36334494 Report

Quoted By:

>>36324510
because the manga is edgy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 11:10:46 No.36334506 Report

Quoted By: >>36334746

I think mostly because they wanted to make manga more dramatic/exciting/somewhat edgy because early games had very little plot.

Actually, do you think the current mainline games reached early Pokespe arcs in term of drama/edgyness?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 12:52:59 No.36334746 Report

Quoted By:

>>36334506
the most edgelord thing was Cyrus. A literal manchild reject that wanted to end all timelines that didnt suited his desire for a world stripped of feelings, imagination and the power to challenge him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 15:02:26 No.36335122 Report

Quoted By: >>36335955

>>36326762
Most adult trainers in gen I had whips. Bird catchers, beauties, etc

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 16:59:09 No.36335613 Report

Quoted By:

>>36332148
Did he actually say that anywhere?

>>36329510
Surge having some of the most threatening dialogue for an opponent, combined with him being a foreigner and in the military, are probably other reasons why he was made into a villain in the manga.

>>36333641
That's an interesting take on it as well. Giovanni specializes in Ground types though, giving him a connection to the earth. However, if him being a villain, or at least the fact that he was once "good" is intended to be a surprise, then it can still work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 18:03:53 No.36335955 Report

Quoted By:

>>36335122
That's not true. Aside from Sabrina and Rocket Grunts, the only trainers to use whips were roughnecks/cueballs (implied to be criminals or otherwise scummy people), tamers (who also used hypnotism disks, suggesting their control over Pokemon wasn't exactly based on earning respect), and ace trainers. Only the ace trainers could be explained as not being innate jerks, but considering the rivalry between Red and Green/Blue that culminates in the final battle and Oak's explanation of why they're different, those trainers might still be jerks just like Green/Blue.

So we have this: Sabrina has a whip she presumably uses on her potentially sentient/sapient Pokemon; she does this to run a gym she seemingly didn't want but established over the Fighting Dojo anyway. With all things considered, this paints her as a huge jerk. It therefore makes sense she was a villain in both the manga and the anime.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 18:13:32 No.36336025 Report

Quoted By:

>>36329079

Koga had that ebil laugh too. Piss easy to rewrite him as a villain, makes it easy. Why try harder?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 19:04:40 No.36336287 Report

Quoted By:

> Makes Koga and Burno criminals seperately
> GS ends up putting both on the new E4 giving Kusaka the perfect bow to tie them up with

I don't get how he's so lucky with future shit the games introduce

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 19:49:50 No.36336576 Report

Quoted By:

>>36326762
It's cool dude, in gen 5, she became a movie star and dropped the whip.
https://youtu.be/1wwGli2d7JY

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