/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #36377421

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Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:03:27 No.36377421 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>36377441 >>36377442 >>36377457 >>36377592 >>36377931 >>36377954 >>36378042 >>36382138 >>36382782 >>36383284 >>36383975

What was GameFreak thinking when they designed this?

>Gains an immunity to a resistance while Groudon gains an immunity to a weakness
>Still vulnerable to Will-o-Wisp while Groudon is immune to 3 status conditions
>Still monotype so it only gets one STAB, which is nullified by Groudon
>Signature move is Hydro Pump with more PP
>50 points of Attack without the physical movepool expansion to take advantage of it
>No ability to set entry hazards or weather so it provides zero team support
>Xerneas bait

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:09:46 No.36377441 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377421
>such a lust for revenge

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:10:18 No.36377442 Report

Quoted By: >>36377457 >>36380132

>>36377421
>Groudon is immune to 3 status conditions
Which 3 conditions are that? I know burn is one of them, but it isn't immune to the others.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:15:51 No.36377457 Report

Quoted By: >>36377475 >>36377496 >>36377500 >>36377837 >>36378167 >>36378599

>>36377421
Because Kyogre was already good compared to Groudon, so they tried to balance it in the primal form. But theyvbuffed P-Kyogre too little and P-Groudon too much because it's Gamefreak.

>>36377442
Immune to paralysis because of ground type, immune to freeze because of the sun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:20:13 No.36377475 Report

Quoted By: >>36377482

>>36377457
Stun spore

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:22:14 No.36377482 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377475
The meme

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:26:31 No.36377496 Report

Quoted By: >>36377854 >>36378459

>>36377457
>Immune to paralysis because of ground type
Stun Spore, Static, Effect Spore, Normalize Delcatty with T-wave, Body Slam, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:27:30 No.36377500 Report

Quoted By: >>36378050 >>36384153

>>36377457
>Because Kyogre was already good compared to Groudon, so they tried to balance it in the primal form.
It wasn't Kyogre that was broken so much as rain, and nerfing Drizzle to 5 turns wiped out a lot of viable Kyogre sets as well as all the rain sweepers that needed it to do anything. The effects were more far reaching than Ubers, rain teams went from Uber/OU to PU until Pelipper got Drizzle as an HA.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:40:58 No.36377546 Report

Quoted By:

Because, before Gen VI, Kyogre was better than Groudon. They wanted to make the "red" one better. For the same reason, they Mega Charizard X better than the other Kanto starters, because it's the Fire one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:56:11 No.36377592 Report

Quoted By: >>36377618

>>36377421
Yet it still won Worlds the year it and Primal Groudon were a thing, and Ray-Ogre looks set to dominate a hypothetical VGC 2019 fomat too. It already has the inherent advantage over Groudon with its typing, it's smaller boosts give Groudon a fighting chance.

Apparently the +50 Attack is relevant in Ubers Singles now btw, people actually run Liquidation Kyogre.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 11:04:24 No.36377618 Report

Quoted By: >>36377936

>>36377592
>Apparently the +50 Attack is relevant in Ubers Singles now btw, people actually run Liquidation Kyogre.
That's pretty cool, but does it get any decent Physical coverage or do they go mixed?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 11:58:46 No.36377837 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377457
You're giving Game Freak too much credit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 12:02:06 No.36377854 Report

Quoted By: >>36377857 >>36377858

>>36377496
Ground types aren't immune to paralysis they can still be stun spored/glared/body slamed etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 12:03:09 No.36377857 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377854
Replied to the wrong post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 12:03:16 No.36377858 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377854
That is what I said but with less examples, yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 12:26:20 No.36377931 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377421
I agree for the most part. The only thing Kyogre gets over Groudon is that it’s signature move also works with the weather it induces.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 12:27:32 No.36377936 Report

Quoted By: >>36377942 >>36383118

>>36377618
Mixed

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 12:29:07 No.36377942 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377936
That is pretty cool.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 12:34:35 No.36377954 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377421
>50 points of Attack without the physical movepool expansion to take advantage of it
>Xerneas bait
liquidation kyogre was used for Xerneas in 16, so why not use it in ubers?
>Signature move is Hydro Pump with more PP
completely busted in doubles

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 13:03:58 No.36378042 Report

Quoted By: >>36378151 >>36380020

>>36377421
>muh physical move expansion
it has quake, t-wave rock slide, waterfall, liquidation etc you supreme autist

the signature move is also affected by weather
the support is twave and burns on switch

has never been a xerneas bait being able to paralyze it or roar it away

pure mono water type is also better than being part electric or ice because you know those were the only realistic alternatives for another meta full of quakers including groudon itself

please go back to elo hell

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 13:06:12 No.36378050 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377500
>nerfing drizzle to 5 turns wiped a lot of kyogre sets
the absolute state of brainlets
it spammed choiced spouts and switched back, hit and run hit and run, the old cm set relied on burns, even in permadrizzle it had to switch out once in a while

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 13:31:54 No.36378151 Report

Quoted By: >>36378480

The closest thing you could give it to Groudon's defensive power is a Ground type, which it does not earn aesthetically unless you want to fossilize it and would probably be too spooky.

>>36378042

I was going to say, Earthquake, Rock Slide and Waterfall/Aqua Tail/Liquidation with few if any of the usual drawbacks of most of the Pokemon using those moves is pretty spiffy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 13:36:32 No.36378167 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377457
Forgot that sunlight prevents frozen status but Primal Groudon is still affected by paralysis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 13:50:38 No.36378219 Report

Quoted By: >>36378351 >>36384324

Primal Kyogre should've been Water/Electric (storms) and Primordial Sea should've reduced Ground damage (not total immunity though).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 14:13:46 No.36378351 Report

Quoted By: >>36380054

>>36378219
That wouldn't really help it at all. If Groudon ends up winning the weather war, you better hope it doesn't attack with Earthquake/PB because of a switch in. Kyogre is already useless in sun. Resisting Ground type attacks wouldn't help it either, if Primordial Sea is up, you can almost guarantee Groudon is going to switch out due to its 4x weakness.

Monotype is really the only way of balancing these two. Flying would break Kyogre and make Groudon completely useless, and Electric would make Kyogre more vulnerable to Groudon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 14:20:36 No.36378459 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377496
The last time I've seen any of these used in a format where Groudon was legal was the odd breloom in gen3 uber.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 14:22:29 No.36378480 Report

Quoted By: >>36378568 >>36378789

>>36378151
>The closest thing you could give it to Groudon's defensive power is a Ground type, which it does not earn aesthetically.
???
Aesthetically? What do you mean by that?
You wanted it to be pure fire type?
A lot of Pokemon don't earn there type cause of there ascetics, so I can't really think of that being a valid argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 14:33:16 No.36378568 Report

Quoted By: >>36378723 >>36384327

>>36378480
>A lot of Pokemon don't earn there type cause of there ascetics

It's both rare and arguably bad design when it happens outside of things like sudowoodo since it makes it hard for newcomers and more "casual" players to make sense of the pokemon and the ways attacks should interact with the pokémon.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 14:36:52 No.36378599 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377457
>Immune to paralysis
*blocks your path*

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 14:55:15 No.36378723 Report

Quoted By: >>36378789 >>36378805

>>36378568
So what your saying is Groudon should have been fire type.

Groudon does learn fire type moves even though it's pure Ground, but I guess we can throw that out the window sense we have an explanation to why it's only Ground due to Primal Reversion.

Plus, there was a few legends I thought where different types when I was younger, I use to think Fug was Electric/Flying, and that design choice it has now is universally praised.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 15:04:35 No.36378789 Report

Quoted By: >>36378997 >>36379139

>>36378480

Referring to giving Kyogre Ground type in the demand for defensive buff. It's basically that or Flying, which has its perks but would require an ability that nerfs Electric and buffs water at the same time which is a stretch too far.

>>36378723

Groudon gets his fire affinity by extension of his concept, magma -> land; the closest thing Kyogre has to that is Flying for storms, which is neat but not accomplishing what Primal Groudon's Ground/Fire is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 15:07:34 No.36378805 Report

Quoted By:

>>36378723
Yeah, I agree Groudon should probably, either, have been ground/fire from the start or attached to less "fire-themed" elements, like the pool of lava it sleeps in, the fact that it's primarely red or it's affiliation with the harsh sunlight.

I don't know about Rayquaza, I like the fact that's it has been linked more intimately with it's flying type in ORAS, since the fact that it's a dragon is pretty much irrelevant to the fact that it's the guardian of the sky and I really like how its actual design look but I can clearly see how it can look like a "storm bird" or something similar to a newcomer.
Dragons type in general have that problem, what is a dragon type pokémon is less clearly defined than what's a fire type pokémon, fire types are generally red, tend to use flames motives and actual flames, heat, lava and so on.
Dragon are just somewhat big reptiles, except for when they aren't (A-exegutor) or when the pokemon is a big lizard but not a dragon (charizard).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 15:08:11 No.36378814 Report

Quoted By:

groudon is better in singles, kyogre is better in doubles

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 15:34:25 No.36378997 Report

Quoted By: >>36379351

>>36378789
I think the whole gist of it was GF was trying to balance the 2 but ultimately failed, and when ORAS came around, they just didn't know what to do. There was an clear attempted here to balance them by buffing Groudon and giving a tiny buff to Kyogre due to how unfair the type match up and overall usefulness of these pokemon were. But for real, who's idea was it to not give Groudon some sort of counter besides drought to counter Kyogre, the least they could have done was not give it such a low Sp.Def stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 15:56:41 No.36379139 Report

Quoted By: >>36379351

>>36378789
There is legitimately no way to balancing these Pokemon, giving it ground type wouldn't make much sense but if it did have it, then Groudon wouldn't do that much cause of that buffed def, making Groudon completely useless again. What you said for flying is accurate, but again, Groudon wouldn't be able to do anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 16:02:51 No.36379182 Report

Quoted By: >>36379232 >>36379351

Do you think Gamefreak intentionally let us belive that Primal Groudon was weaker then Primal Kyogre when showing the new typing or was it just a coincidence that they showed off the new typings before the abilities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 16:13:10 No.36379232 Report

Quoted By:

>>36379182
It's most likely a coincidence, if they purposely tried to show that then people would have picked up on it and riot. I wouldn't be surprised though if that was the case, Game Freak does like sucking the dick of the popular ones in trios.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 16:34:40 No.36379351 Report

Quoted By: >>36380108

>>36378997

Well you have how they match each other and how they work out in general. Game Freak might have concluded that their super weathers negating each other and forcing switches was fair enough. And it's not like Primal Kyogre cannot hurt Primal Groudon while the sun's up; he is just playing the same game Groudon's been from the get go.

In the grand scheme though the hard buff for Groudon and small buff for Kyogre makes sense. Groudon could be outrun and cut down by strong grass, ice and even fire moves left and right- he needed either a speed boost or a way to mitigate his weaknesses, some kind of second wind. Whereas Kyogre was SO good in spite of that same speed tier that his lower physical defense was his just desserts, and the very act of buffing him at all gives him roughly a free Calm Mind boost and a Choice Band set without the move lock-in that can also go mixed. "Doing Kyogre better" is really all he needed, and there's always Choice Scarf if speed is really that important.

>>36379139

But without Delta Steam the Flying type would Rock would become Kyogre's new Achilles's heel; anything with Stone Edge (Groudon included) can suddenly smash his lesser defense stat. Nor would a ground typing imply a boost to physical defense- the funny part about Primal Groudon is that his special bulk isn't any better, we're just noticing how good is actually is because grass and ice don't circumvent it anymore.

>>36379182

I can't say- I don't think they're that clever but at the same time it is such an easy and obvious bait and switch to pull that they would totally see the opportunity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 18:23:59 No.36380020 Report

Quoted By: >>36383090

>>36378042
Waterfall is shit on a slow Pokemon, and Liquidation is still 30% weaker than Hydro Pump. Kyogre doesn't get STAB on the EQ and can't hold an item, so 150 Attack EQ hits far less harder than you think.
Rockslide is useless. You might as well carry Ice Beam for mixed coverage cause you'll still out damage on the special side with the 180 SpA

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 18:31:43 No.36380054 Report

Quoted By: >>36380093

>>36378351
>Flying would break Kyogre and make Groudon completely useless
>Kyogre 3DS model literally flies

That's as good a way to balance them as any I've heard. Give it Flying type and this:

Water Spout
Oblivion Wing
Thunder
Ice Beam

Groudon can still fight back with rock-type moves, and Kyogre is now hurt more by stealth rock.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 18:38:04 No.36380093 Report

Quoted By:

>>36380054
It wouldn't really make sense in a rival like standpoint. Groudon doesn't know any rock moves upon catching it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 18:40:20 No.36380108 Report

Quoted By: >>36380194 >>36380201

>>36379351
>In the grand scheme though the hard buff for Groudon and small buff for Kyogre makes sense. Groudon could be outrun and cut down by strong grass, ice and even fire moves left and right- he needed either a speed boost or a way to mitigate his weaknesses, some kind of second wind. Whereas Kyogre was SO good in spite of that same speed tier that his lower physical defense was his just desserts, and the very act of buffing him at all gives him roughly a free Calm Mind boost and a Choice Band set without the move lock-in that can also go mixed. "Doing Kyogre better" is really all he needed, and there's always Choice Scarf if speed is really that important.

You're missing that these "buffs" happened right after weather being neutered with the release of XY. The loss of rain greatly diminished Kyogre's firepower by gutting its firepower: thunder and hydro pump are inaccurate, so you have to settle for the 90 BP Surf or the 80 BP Scald which don't have the same ability to break through special walls or resisted Pokemon.
Groudon wasn't nearly as reliant on Drought because he was a Ground Pokemon, and even now as Primal Groudon the biggest gift of Desolate Land is removing his x4 water weakness. The buff to fire moves isn't nearly as important as the qualities of the Ground/Fire typing and Groudon getting PB as a signature move.
GF really, really fucked up with balancing the two.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 18:43:03 No.36380132 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377442
2 status paralize and burn

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 18:50:07 No.36380194 Report

Quoted By: >>36380964

>>36380108

But if Primal Kyogre is the default he'll never lose the rain for himself unless the other two are out- he got permenat rain back right after it was taken away.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 18:50:46 No.36380201 Report

Quoted By:

>>36380108
I really hope they don't touch the Weather trio, I don't want them to become more fucked up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 18:59:44 No.36380272 Report

Quoted By:

>Primal Groudon's strength is being fairly versatile and reliable
>Primal Kyogre, the goddamn nuke

Its simple

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 19:02:38 No.36380292 Report

Quoted By:

groudon needed it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 20:37:57 No.36380964 Report

Quoted By: >>36381295

>>36380194
It has permanent rain but it disappears when Kyogre leaves the field, so Kyogre is no longer a team-oriented Pokemon outside of doubles. And even then, the only reason it's good in doubles compared to regular Kyogre is Megazard Y can't put out the rain on the switch.

Pogre got 20% boost in SpA, which is less than regular Kyogre with Life Orb and a hell of a lot less than with specs. Pogre also can't run scarf, so it is permanently slow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 21:24:56 No.36381295 Report

Quoted By: >>36381406 >>36381606

>>36380964

Would a permanent Primordial Sea have been the fix? We're jumping around that Kyogre didn't need what Groudon got.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 21:29:45 No.36381324 Report

Quoted By:

>People always bitch about Kanto shilling
>Hoenn Ubers are broken as hell and got new forms
>Hoenn got really good Megas too

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 21:44:02 No.36381406 Report

Quoted By:

>>36381295
>permanent Primordial Sea
I don't know how I feel about that.

That's pretty much just asking it to be uneven at that point. That would just ruin the balance Groudon and Kyogre have over each other.

It staying in after Kyogre leaves might be okay but it would have to go if PDon and Fug shows on field.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 21:46:04 No.36381422 Report

Quoted By: >>36381569 >>36381623 >>36382866 >>36382948 >>36384163

So, how do we stop Primal Groudon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 22:04:24 No.36381541 Report

Quoted By:

So we don't want selective weather wars (unless we do, apparently), and we're torn on how to buff Kyogre to Groudon's spec because apparently anything less is wasted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 22:08:50 No.36381569 Report

Quoted By:

>>36381422
With another Groudon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 22:14:21 No.36381606 Report

Quoted By:

>>36381295

Drizzle needs to bringing permanent rain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 22:16:29 No.36381623 Report

Quoted By: >>36381747

>>36381422
That's an easy fix, ice attacks melt and become water under desolate land.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 22:23:23 No.36381667 Report

Quoted By:

> half the boost went to attack

They employed this anti min max philosophy the same game as Mega-Beedrill and right before ultra beasts.

Jesus fuck Gamefreak.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 22:31:22 No.36381724 Report

Quoted By: >>36381785 >>36382168 >>36383067 >>36383323

>physical primal kyogre
This meme needs to stop

252+ Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 337-397 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Xerneas in Heavy Rain: 267-315 (64.9 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Kyogre has no out to Chansey or Blissey without Calm Mind, and if you go physical you obviously are not running a calm mind set. Physical Primal Kyogre is similar to running Choice Band normal Kyogre. Let that sink in.
The ONLY reason to run mixed is because ubers has so many x4 weakness to ice, in practice most ubers can shrug off even a neutral Liquidation because it is so low power. Kyogre is so slow, it needs to survive a hit before retaliating with a non-STAB Ice Beam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 22:34:38 No.36381747 Report

Quoted By: >>36381755

>>36381623
You buffing Pdon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 22:37:11 No.36381755 Report

Quoted By:

>>36381747

No, the water doesn't evaporate if it was originally an ice type move. It makes sense given how temperature works in the real world.
The bottom line Ice Beam goes from 16% damage to OHKO because it's now a water-type move. By the same extension you would have water type moves freeze in hail, so ice type Pokemon would take half damage (and so would rock/ground types).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 22:41:21 No.36381785 Report

Quoted By:

>>36381724

But it's novel and gives your umpteenth Kyogre something to DOOOOOO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 23:33:16 No.36382138 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377421
It's simple
>gen 5
Kyogre was arguably one of the best mons in the game while Groudon struggled to stay relevant
>gen 6
fairly balanced ubers meta, Kyogre still heavily outclassing Groudon
>ORAS
well fuck it

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Aug 2018 23:36:04 No.36382168 Report

Quoted By:

>>36381724
>mfw using Water Spout Primal-Kyogre on sticky webs
Yeah it's mostly a low ladder meme but sweeping shit teams with Kyogre is fun 2bh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 01:20:17 No.36382782 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377421
should've been water/electric with ground immunity

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 01:36:10 No.36382866 Report

Quoted By:

>>36381422
Choice Specs Lickylicky with Surf

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 01:41:56 No.36382893 Report

Quoted By:

I don't get why they didn't make it Water/Electric

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 01:53:30 No.36382948 Report

Quoted By: >>36383050

>>36381422
>Arceus-Ground but it's only a check
>uuh Glare/Toxic Zygarde
>Scarf Yveltal with Foul Play for offensive Groudon
>Primal-Kyogre as a revenge killer or on a predicted fire move
>Fug
And then there are meme answers to P-don (which depend on the set)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 02:15:55 No.36383050 Report

Quoted By: >>36383110

>>36382948
>revenge killer
>as switch in
>gets a speed tie
???

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 02:17:37 No.36383067 Report

Quoted By:

>>36381724
hi, how's elo hell with ash teams?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 02:21:31 No.36383090 Report

Quoted By: >>36383135 >>36383323

>>36380020
>waterfall is shit on a pokemon with 150 base attack and rain and access to thunderwave as support

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 02:25:28 No.36383110 Report

Quoted By:

>>36383050
>P-don runs max speed
You're right, but then again you're not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 02:26:42 No.36383118 Report

Quoted By: >>36383147 >>36384216

>>36377936
>Adamant
>Uses special attacks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 02:29:56 No.36383135 Report

Quoted By:

>>36383090
>t-Wave on Kyogre
uuh you*re better off running Ferrothorn but then you could also run Glare Zygarde (because it paras P-Don). Hell, even Groudon gets t-wave

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 02:32:27 No.36383147 Report

Quoted By:

>>36383118
>Ice Beam OHKOs all relevant threats
>Thunder for opposing Kyogres or Arceus-Water
Give it some Toxic support and it's the best Kyogre set my man

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 02:59:15 No.36383284 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377421
Rain supports way more Pokémon than Sun. Steel, Grass, Bug and thunder users get indirects buffs while water gets more powerful.
Groudon buffs rock, fire, ground, grass (questionable) and solar beam users, two types of which he already has, and the other is a shit type defensively anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 03:07:44 No.36383323 Report

Quoted By: >>36384212

>>36383090
>20% flinch chance
>always attack second

Nevermind that +2 Geomancy Xerneas aside, there's not a lot in ubers that have low enough defense to justify an 80 BP move without a secondary effect. You're literally running Waterfall over Origin Pulse and clenching your ass cheeks that Xerneas isn't running Thunder. And as demonstrated >>36381724 physical Primal Kyogre is walled by Chansey, the only other reason from Xerneas to even consider a physical movepool.
Scald does more damage because of the 180 SpA and has a 30% burn chance. And you also have the option of Origin Pulse or Water Spout for more power.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 05:50:41 No.36383975 Report

Quoted By:

>>36377421
Fucking sea basin asshole, give me Origin Pulse!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 06:46:03 No.36384153 Report

Quoted By: >>36384226 >>36384233

>>36377500
The Drizzle nerf literally didn't matter for anything but gimmicky rain teams.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 06:49:25 No.36384163 Report

Quoted By:

>>36381422
Ban it to AG.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 07:03:59 No.36384212 Report

Quoted By:

>>36383323
>those calcs prove that chansey walls it
are you retarded by any chance?
also:
>80bp
>stab
>in rain
>always attack second when twave exists
what are you about
p-kyogre can lure whatever mon still

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 07:05:36 No.36384216 Report

Quoted By:

>>36383118
>what is zygarde

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 07:09:35 No.36384226 Report

Quoted By: >>36384239

>>36384153
Kyogre was called king because of the support he gave to other Pokemon, not because of the much-overrated offensive power he possessed. As a support poke he helped:

>Hurricane users
>Thunder users
>Swift Swimmers
>Grass, Steel types
>Offensive Water types

The drizzle nerf made only the choice specs, scarf sets viable. You couldn't run defensive anymore with Xerneas in the game, and you needed to run damp rock to support other Pokemon, which greatly weakened kyogre's offensive presence and/or longevity.

Kyogre's importance as a supporter grew as the game added more and more uber dragons who resisted water. by the end of BW there were 7 legendary dragons all who at least were x2 resistant to water. belly flopping with water spout stopped being a thing by early DP

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 07:11:45 No.36384233 Report

Quoted By:

>>36384153
>gimmicky rain teams
Rain was really dominant during gen 5, both in ubers and OU
I'm surprised rain wasn't nerfed by making sun or sand much stronger 2bh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 07:13:38 No.36384239 Report

Quoted By: >>36384288

>>36384226
Only for normal Kyogre, Primal Kyogre can still safely spam Water Spout on slow mons and barely has any safe switch in. Not everything in Ubers is Arceus & co fast. In fact it can perfectly run 2 water attacks too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 07:23:13 No.36384256 Report

Quoted By:

WEW lads... It was the first time for me that a stallfag forfeited after 3 turns for me. Just because he saw Steelium-Z Heatran (and then I don't even have other stuff to deal with stall on that team?)
Anyway, Stall is for faggots and if you actually enjoy playing stall you're a subhuman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 07:31:45 No.36384288 Report

Quoted By: >>36384376

>>36384239
>slow mons
Base 90 is one of the slowest tiers in ubers, and you most likely want a negative speed to make sure you override primal groudon's weather to force a switch in the first place.
Nothing can switch safely into a full health Water Spout Primal Kyogre, but it doesn't really have a niche anymore except as a fat boss mon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 07:46:19 No.36384324 Report

Quoted By:

>>36378219
>Primordial Sea should've reduced Ground damage
This makes no sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 07:48:10 No.36384327 Report

Quoted By:

>>36378568
The first like 15 Pokemon are a mess about this. It's not rare at all.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 08:06:20 No.36384376 Report

Quoted By:

>>36384288
>Ubers meta uses Ubers mons only and they all run 252EVs with +Spe
Either uncultured or just shitposting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Aug 2018 12:57:54 No.36385103 Report

Quoted By:

They knew it was the era of it's fucking nothing and gave them stats accordingly.

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