/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #37048931

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Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 01:47:49 No.37048931 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>37049038 >>37049050 >>37049070 >>37049103 >>37049211 >>37055527

Is RNG manipulation cheating?
You're not changing the game, you're using the things found out about the game's mechanics to your advantage.

Kinda like how people found out about evs and ivs and train accordingly opposed to randomly killing things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 01:54:13 No.37048987 Report

Quoted By: >>37048998 >>37049077

Yes, you are manipulating factors that are meant to be random and Game Freak did not intend for you to do that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 01:56:29 No.37048998 Report

Quoted By:

>>37048987
good, glad I do it then

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 01:59:11 No.37049026 Report

Quoted By: >>37049044 >>37049211

The term "cheating" is subjective. People have different perspectives on what constitutes as cheating. That being said, any sane rational person would agree that predicting the game's RNG in a non-intrusive manner to get a desired result is not cheating. It's using an intentional in-game mechanic to your advantage, able to be performed by anyone and everyone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:01:33 No.37049038 Report

Quoted By: >>37049077

>>37048931
It's just injecting if you don't have a jailbroken 3DS. So technically, but fuck GF's shitty systems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:02:08 No.37049044 Report

Quoted By: >>37049051

>>37049026
>That being said, any sane rational person would agree that predicting the game's RNG in a non-intrusive manner to get a desired result is not cheating. It's using an intentional in-game mechanic to your advantage, able to be performed by anyone and everyone.
So third party software is an "intentional in-game mechanic"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:03:58 No.37049050 Report

Quoted By: >>37049077 >>37052123

>>37048931
>Is RNG manipulation cheating?
Depends

>Is playing the game in a deliberate way cheating?
No

>Is using an external tool to provide/time inputs cheating?
Yes

>Is using an external tool to plan how to play the game in a deliberate way cheating?
No

>Is transferring data between emulator and a real game cheating?
Yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:04:04 No.37049051 Report

Quoted By: >>37049211 >>37049274 >>37049730

>>37049044
No, because that software is not interacting with the game.

By your logic, anyone who has ever used a damage calculator is cheating even though it doesn't have an interaction with the game just because it tells them what the damage might be if they know the builds involved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:06:38 No.37049070 Report

Quoted By:

>>37048931
Can you stop posing eontimer when speedrunners have already phased out that old program?
https://github.com/stringflow/FlowTimer/releases

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:07:07 No.37049077 Report

Quoted By: >>37049211

>>37048987
>>37049038

luck vs knowing how the game works
>smeargle doesn't appear often at night,
>I'll just keep trying to find smeargle vs I'll come during the day.
>REEEE NO KEEP TRYING AT NIGHT

You're not cheating like making all encounters smeargle, you're using the game mechanics to your advantage.
>>37049050
You're not transferring data, you doing maths using a lookup table.
It doesn't touch the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:10:25 No.37049103 Report

Quoted By:

>>37048931
didnt i just see you on /v/?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO you.jpg, 48KiB, 640x896

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:22:38 No.37049211 Report

Quoted By: >>37049237

>>37048931
>>37049026
>>37049051
>>37049077
>rng is a game mechanic

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:25:45 No.37049237 Report

Quoted By: >>37049269

>>37049211
Get out of here, player of PLG.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:30:41 No.37049269 Report

Quoted By:

>>37049237
>no argument
>name calling
stop being childish. RNG is just a crutch for bad game design 99% of the time. can't figure out how to design this section of a game? just make like 7 possible outcomes and throw them in a random number generator LOL. it's no different in pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:31:24 No.37049274 Report

Quoted By: >>37049505 >>37050276

>>37049051
>By your logic, anyone who has ever used a damage calculator is cheating even though it doesn't have an interaction with the game just because it tells them what the damage might be if they know the builds involved.

I think GameFreak would consider damage calculators cheating, yes. Their original intent was that you would use non-perfect Pokemon in competitive, as an additional variable to determine matches. The numbers-based certainty of the meta upsets them which is why every gen they try to throw more RNG into the game.
Basically, anything that wasn't included in the game itself is cheating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 02:59:59 No.37049505 Report

Quoted By: >>37050372

>>37049274
so ev and iv training too?
Same with egg mechanics

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 03:30:50 No.37049730 Report

Quoted By: >>37052132

>>37049051
damage calcs don't require a 3rd party program or read your games data, every time you pull up some bullshit comparison to back your argument I'm just going to throw it out because it's just as retarded as you for thinking that this is the intended way to play the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 04:45:08 No.37050276 Report

Quoted By: >>37050372

>>37049274
What about a type chart, then? Would consulting a type chart for move effectiveness be cheating?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 04:59:57 No.37050372 Report

Quoted By: >>37050445

>>37049505
>ev and iv training too?

Those values are hidden for a reason. Same with very roundabout ways of hidden power determination.

>>37050276

Maybe, that information is provided in the game, although not at the start. STAB is not directly explained and doesn't appear as a message when you attack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 05:16:11 No.37050445 Report

Quoted By: >>37051540

>>37050372
>So every single competitive player is cheating? Even people that hunt shinnies knowing hiddem game mechanics like destiny knots and ivs.

ok then

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 08:16:50 No.37051540 Report

Quoted By: >>37051677

>>37050445
who are you quoting?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 08:57:29 No.37051677 Report

Quoted By: >>37052139

>>37051540
It's greentext
you're saying knowing hiddne nechanics makes you a cheater

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 09:06:20 No.37051712 Report

Quoted By:

>there are still retards who think that using external calculators is cheating
this board is beyomd saving

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 10:33:27 No.37052123 Report

Quoted By: >>37056726

>>37049050

Are damage calculators cheating?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 10:35:08 No.37052132 Report

Quoted By: >>37052249

>>37049730

Damage calcs ARE a third party program and they DONT read your games data, you blithering idiot. You couldn't be more oblivious to the subject matter you're discussing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 10:37:41 No.37052139 Report

Quoted By:

>>37051677
Read the post again. They said that that's gamefreak's perspective on it. And they're right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 11:08:31 No.37052249 Report

Quoted By:

>>37052132
have you had brain damage all your life, or was it onset recently? I'm just curious, because not only is it not a third party program, I literally stated that it DOESN'T read your games data, you absolute incomptent fucking retard. Maybe brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 13:51:16 No.37053073 Report

Quoted By: >>37053086 >>37053820 >>37056761

If you're using cfw or emulator with lua scripts fo hack, I feel yes. I rng in gen 7 just using the clocks, 3dsrngtool and eontimer, so you're literally just calculating when you need to press A button, and it's not guaranteed to get hit, and getting 6IVs takes a long time. Hacking is completely different to this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 13:52:53 No.37053086 Report

Quoted By:

>>37053073
*to rng

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 15:40:50 No.37053820 Report

Quoted By: >>37054836

>>37053073
OP didn't say anything about hacks, however I feel like you're flat out lying to yourself if you think those programs you listed aren't considered cheating

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 17:43:58 No.37054836 Report

Quoted By:

>>37053820
>if you can do math you're a cheater
i have to part this board with retards like this one

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 19:06:35 No.37055514 Report

Quoted By:

Watching the anime to learn about Pokemon and moves you didn't find out from the games is cheating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 19:09:17 No.37055527 Report

Quoted By:

>>37048931
It is cheating, but who cares it is pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 21:40:44 No.37056726 Report

Quoted By:

>>37052123
No, which is why he said:
>Is using an external tool to plan how to play the game in a deliberate way cheating?
>No
You're using an external tool to plan how to play the game and putting in the proper inputs yourself to achieve the results you planned out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 21:44:43 No.37056761 Report

Quoted By:

>>37053073
What does 3dsrngtool and eontimer do? If you're using an artificial clock that turns on the second you turn on a game automatically, then it's considered cheating, because you aren't hitting the timer yourself and it's possible you wouldn't get accurate results with your own reflexes. It's just splitting hairs though and I feel like this is so minor than it doesn't matter.

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