/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #37283615

[94 / 7 / ?]

31KiB, 864x661, smogon users are dumb.png

smogon thread

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 12:46:50 No.37283615 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>37283616 >>37283670 >>37283679 >>37284382 >>37284394 >>37284436 >>37284531 >>37287909 >>37287931 >>37288011 >>37290354 >>37293236

Dustox has horrible stats and a mediocre defensive typing. Any offensive set is outclassed by the stronger and faster Wiglytuff, and is a waste of a team slot that could otherwise accommodate a huge array of superior setup sweepers.

t. smgonfag

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 12:49:52 No.37283616 Report

Quoted By: >>37283623

>>37283615
>Wiglytuff
how on earth did that happen?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 12:50:38 No.37283618 Report

Quoted By: >>37288149

*sets up iron defense and quiver dance*

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 12:52:59 No.37283623 Report

Quoted By: >>37283648 >>37284383 >>37284531 >>37284597 >>37290354 >>37291931

>>37283616
it didn't; the original text talked about butterfree. i wanted to replace 'butterfree' with 'wigglytuff' and 'Dustox' with 'Clafable' to show smogon can't tell a wall from a bad sweeper, but i forgot to replace Dustox.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 13:04:36 No.37283648 Report

Quoted By: >>37283660

>>37283623
>smogon can't tell a wall from a bad sweeper
are you implying dustox is a wall?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 13:09:35 No.37283660 Report

Quoted By: >>37284436 >>37284464

>>37283648
its intended to be one. it came with moonlight, light screen, and toxic as level up moves on the very gen it was introduced. thats kinda a big hint. and its defintly more wall inclined than butterfree, or those 'setup sweepers' you can supposedly swap it with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 13:13:29 No.37283670 Report

Quoted By: >>37284367 >>37284421 >>37284436 >>37284439

>>37283615
Can I just say that I really like Dustox?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 13:16:58 No.37283679 Report

Quoted By: >>37284350 >>37284531

>>37283615
>the only notable resistances it has is grass and poison
>x4 resistance to fighting
what the fuck happened Smogon. I'm not gonna pretend Dustox is good but what the fuck are they thinking when they wrote that, it's clearly meant to be a wall not a sweeper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:02:14 No.37284350 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283679
Fighting is not as prevalent in PU as the others.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:06:23 No.37284367 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283670
No.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:10:15 No.37284382 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283615
>Beautifly got +10 SpA in gen6
>Dustox got nothing
why

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:10:18 No.37284383 Report

Quoted By: >>37284459 >>37291357

>>37283623
>Dustox
>Wall

The only thing it seems to wall is your brain capacity, considering you think it is one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:12:07 No.37284394 Report

Quoted By: >>37284459 >>37284531

>>37283615
>Therefore, it is miserably weak even after several boosts, failing to even 2HKO a large number of Pokemon in the metagame. Dustox barely carves out its niche in access to Shield Dust, Iron Defense, and slightly better defensive typing than Butterfree. Its Poison typing and Shield Dust provide it with an immunity to Toxic as well as to any crippling burn or paralysis from moves such as Scald and Body Slam. Despite this, other bulky set up sweepers such as Calm Mind Duosion and Clefairy tend to outclass Dustox due to their superior strength, ability, and typing, meaning they require less support.

>let me just omit the rest of the analysis becuase I suck cock for a living!!!

Dumbass OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:19:16 No.37284421 Report

Quoted By: >>37284436

>>37283670

Did a monotype bug run of ORAS and he actually performed as one of the better teammates. With shield dust, it actually performed as a decent toxic staller, and I could switch between protect, bug buzz, sludge bomb, and moonlight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:22:36 No.37284436 Report

Quoted By: >>37284459

>>37283615
They mention its offensive capabilities because it gets Quiver Dance which is a beautiful move.

>>37283660
"Intended" is a good word here.
60/70/90 won't wall shit in competitive, nigga. Especially with this typing.

>>37283670
Yes.

>>37284421
Nice to hear that. I recently used Beautifly in ORAS and it proved to be quite a beast with Bug Buzz and Quiver Dance.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1527049656093.jpg, 154KiB, 640x400

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:23:49 No.37284439 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283670
always

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:28:07 No.37284459 Report

Quoted By: >>37284468 >>37284472 >>37284529 >>37284531

>>37284383
and smoon tries to use it as a sweeper, and the only thing ITT it sweeps is smogonfags like you.

>>37284394
>Therefore, it is miserably weak even after several boosts, failing to even 2HKO a large number of Pokemon in the metagame. Dustox barely carves out its niche in access to Shield Dust, Iron Defense, and slightly better defensive typing than Butterfree. Its Poison typing and Shield Dust provide it with an immunity to Toxic as well as to any crippling burn or paralysis from moves such as Scald and Body Slam. Despite this, other bulky set up sweepers such as Calm Mind Duosion and Clefairy tend to outclass Dustox due to their superior strength, ability, and typing, meaning they require less support.

>the rest of the analysis keeps explaining why a wall is a bad sweeper without trying to explain why it is a bad wall, because the only reason to use a pokemon is if it can be a sweeper

dumbass smogoner

>>37284436
>60/70/90 won't wall shit
in PU? it can wall some things in OU, and in PU it is more than enough.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:29:11 No.37284464 Report

Quoted By: >>37284471 >>37291357

>>37283660
>it's intended to be a wall even though it dies to everything
?????????????

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:30:13 No.37284468 Report

Quoted By: >>37284471 >>37287459

>>37284459
>in PU? it can wall some things in OU, and in PU it is more than enough.
Okay, what offensive PU pokemon does it wall?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:31:33 No.37284471 Report

Quoted By: >>37284496

>>37284464
>dustox dies to everything
??????????

>>37284468
what specially offensive PU pokemons exist, that aren't fire psychic flying or rock?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:31:59 No.37284472 Report

Quoted By: >>37284497 >>37284531

>>37284459
There is no reason to use it as a wall because it has a terrible movepool, typing, and stats for walling. The only reason to use it is for Quiver Dance, which is arguably the best boosting move in the game, and it can't even do that well.

Stupid fucking underage OP.

>N-NO ITS NUT FAIR! SMOGON CALLED MUH BRO BAD ;_;

get over yourself you faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:36:50 No.37284496 Report

Quoted By: >>37284547

>>37284471
the only pokemon in PU i can think of that has nothing to get past Dustox is Lurantis

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:37:28 No.37284497 Report

Quoted By: >>37284516 >>37284529 >>37284531 >>37284535 >>37284608

>>37284472
>terrible movepool for walling
>roost, moonlight, lightscreen, toxic....

>typing
>resist grass, fighting, poison, fairy, bug

>want to use it as a sweeper due to a single move
Stupid fucking underage smogoner.

>N-NO ITS NUT FAIR SOME1 ON 4CHAN CALLED MY L33T CLUB BAD

get over yourself you faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:43:20 No.37284516 Report

Quoted By: >>37284547

>>37284497
>>terrible movepool for walling
>>roost, moonlight, lightscreen, toxic....
>every pokemon that learns defensive moves is a good wall
sick meme; i'm gonna submit my analysis for Kadabra, Pheremosa and Scyther as walls since everything that learns Reflect, a Recovery move, and/or Toxic is obviously an excellent wall

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:47:46 No.37284529 Report

Quoted By: >>37284547 >>37284551

>>37284459
>in PU? it can wall some things in OU, and in PU it is more than enough.
PU is literally shitmon the tier. It's like a trash can for Pokemon. I will admit - I am not deeply familiar with it.

>>37284497
Not that anon but
>want to use it as a sweeper due to a single move

I can do this too, fucker.
>want to use it as a wall due to above-average SpDef and a healing move
Also, everyone gets Toxic. Fuck off.

Lastly, Bug/Poison isn't good. Who the fuck wants weakness to Fire and Rock for a resistance to Poison, Grass and Bug?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:47:51 No.37284531 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283615
>>37283623
>>37283679
>>37284394
>>37284459
>>37284497
>>37284472
no one is gonna point out how Dustox doesn't even have a finalized Gen 7 analysis published on Smogon?

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dustox-mini-gp-0-1.3644376/
>With its two 4x resistances to Grass and Fighting, an immunity to Toxic, and access to both Quiver Dance and Iron Defense, Dustox can slowly turn into a setup sweeper. However, its typing brings forth several notable weaknesses, most notably Psychic, Flying, and Rock, that allow Dustox to be overcome by threats such as Mesprit, Dodrio, and Aggron. Dustox also faces fierce competition with Bellossom as a bulky Quiver Dance sweeper, as Strength Sap restores Bellossom's health while lowering the target's Attack and Bellossom has better offensive stats than Dustox.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:48:31 No.37284535 Report

Quoted By: >>37284547

>>37284497
>I"M JUST GONNA REPETE WHAT HE SAID BECAUSE I CANT ACTUALLY THINK OF ANYTHING

Literal retard.

Try posting some walling sets and tell me specifically what relevant Pokemon it can wall.
But I know you wont, because you're a little bitch who's seething that some guy over the internet called your shitmon for what it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:51:16 No.37284547 Report

Quoted By: >>37284564 >>37284567

>>37284496
>252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 171-202 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
that not taking into account moves uch as struggle bug or light screen, or even roosting waiting for hydropump to miss.

>>37284516
ofc good movepool is not everythinng it got going for, but since someone said it got bad movepool for a wall i had to set the facts straight.

>>37284529
stats + movepool is more reason that a single move.

>>37284535
roost, struggle bug, toxic and maybe infestation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:53:21 No.37284551 Report

Quoted By: >>37284558

>>37284529
Dustox isn't PU. It's usable in PU but it doestn't have enough usage to be part of the tier. If there was a tier below PU, Dustox would be in that.

Also Dustox can't wall shit.Coil/DD Zygarde is an A+ tier threat in OU with 100 attack. CB Stoutland is A+ in PU with 110 base attack and SD Lycanroc is A+ with 115, and they each have the advantage of regularly carrying moves that are actually Super Effective against Dustox. Dustox has no hope surviving against anything

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:55:36 No.37284557 Report

Quoted By:

why do anti-smogon fags keep embarrasing themselves

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:55:38 No.37284558 Report

Quoted By: >>37284594

>>37284551
>Dustox can't wall shit
>bring example of physical attackers to show why a special wall is pointless

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:56:47 No.37284564 Report

Quoted By: >>37284590

>>37284547
>roost, struggle bug, toxic and maybe infestation.
Terrible set that's even worse than the QD set. The only Pokemon it can even threaten in its own tier with that set is maybe Victreebel, and thats a BIG maybe. Everything else in the tier it's suppose to """"""wall"""""" with that pitiful set sets up on it for free and OHKOs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 17:57:37 No.37284567 Report

Quoted By: >>37284590

>>37284547
>>252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 171-202 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
>that not taking into account moves uch as struggle bug or light screen, or even roosting waiting for hydropump to miss.
1. Lapras is untiered in PU
2. Lapras' usage in PU is 2.00012%. This, along with the previous point, mean you probably shouldn't use viability against Lapras in team building decisions
3. Your calculations prove Lapras can easily 2HKO Dustox
4. You, for some reason, believe entry hazards are not a thing in PU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:03:28 No.37284590 Report

Quoted By: >>37284595

>>37284564
>Everything else
>252 SpA Life Orb Froslass Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 107-126 (33.1 - 39%) -- 7.4% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

'everything else' like?

>>37284567
>easily
roost+blacksludge prove otherwise.
>lapras isn't used much in PU
which special attackers are in RU than?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:03:55 No.37284594 Report

Quoted By: >>37284623

>>37284558
Sorry, I'm clearly the brainlet. I thought it was a given considering the special attackers in PU are pokemon like Mespirit, which is on 1/5th of all teams, Eelektross, which can learn Flamethrower, and Alolan Raichu. But you're right, it can wall Lilligant if it doesn't have Breakneck Blitz or Hidden Power.

So yes, Dustox is worth the team slot because it walls the 30% of Lilligant that don't use any of those coverage moves. Great argument

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:04:47 No.37284595 Report

Quoted By: >>37284623

>>37284590
>Froslass used Taunt
Try again, dickcheese.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:04:56 No.37284597 Report

Quoted By: >>37284623 >>37291357

>>37283623
>it's supposed to be a wall!
not with those stats and typing, retard. Doesn't matter what the devs intended for it if it can't actually function as such, even all the way down in PU.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO i dont get it.jpg, 55KiB, 960x720

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:08:50 No.37284608 Report

Quoted By: >>37284623

>This thread full of Dustox apologists
>Even though you can use the much bulkier and much better Weezing, which has the same resistances to Grass, Bug, Fairy, Fighting, and Poison as this fag touts >>37284497 with an additional immunity to Ground, no weaknesses to Fire, Rock, or Flying, better defensive stats, additional utility in Toxic Spikes, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Haze, and more immediate power for its attacking move(s)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:11:16 No.37284623 Report

Quoted By: >>37284626 >>37284649 >>37287890

>>37284594
>252+ SpA Eelektross Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 144-170 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

>>37284595
all froslass builds carry taunt?

>>37284597
doesn't matter what the smogonuniversity teaches you if its proven wrong on an anonymous board.

>>37284608
so what recovery moves does weezing bloisters?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:12:10 No.37284626 Report

Quoted By: >>37284636 >>37291357

>>37284623
pain split

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:14:19 No.37284636 Report

Quoted By:

>>37284626
>pain split
sure. ok. but im still standing on my point that dustox function as a wall even if there are better walls out there. im not even gonna check if weezing share his access to defog, ill assume its there since it fits weezing theme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:18:14 No.37284649 Report

Quoted By: >>37284674 >>37284747

>>37284623
>all froslass builds carry taunt?
They pretty much do, considering Froslass' role in the tier.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO sss.png, 10KiB, 866x232

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:25:08 No.37284674 Report

Quoted By: >>37284747 >>37285120

>>37284649
except the ones that use wow. or the choice specs ones, which still can't 2hko dustox.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:42:25 No.37284747 Report

Quoted By: >>37284764

>>37284649
>>37284674
Taunt appears on 45% of all Froslass sets in PU. At the highest ELOs, it appears on 68% of all Froslass sets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 18:46:04 No.37284764 Report

Quoted By: >>37285120

>>37284747
2/3 is not 3/3. and at any rate the froslass is a entry hazard setter and not a dedicated attacker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 20:30:48 No.37285120 Report

Quoted By: >>37285622 >>37285630 >>37290157 >>37291357

>>37284764
Holy shit, your defense is pathetic.
>it can wall PU Pokemon (Special Attackers that it [the ones not super effective against it])
>you can just stall Hydro Pump until it misses
>Flamethrower does only 48% damage on average, you can clearly tank it (unless you take into the account Stealth Rock, critical or burn)
>not all sets use Taunt on this particular Pokemon

>>37284674
Nigga, please. If Taunt won't fuck you over then there are other options. Trick for example. Or Hex. Or Z-move with Stealth Rock damage. Your wall is not reliable at all until you know opponent's moveset.
>252 SpA Life Orb Froslass Hex (130 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 153-183 (47.3 - 56.6%)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 22:29:20 No.37285622 Report

Quoted By:

>>37285120
it walls a small fraction of Lilligant sets, therefore it is viable
checkmate

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Dec 2018 22:31:48 No.37285630 Report

Quoted By:

>>37285120
Eelektross can't actually burn Dustox with Flamethrower since Shield Dust will nullify Flamethrower's secondary effect

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 05:29:29 No.37287459 Report

Quoted By: >>37287467

>>37284468
>Okay, what offensive PU pokemon does it wall?
shield dust dustox was actually the best check to no guard machoke back in XY PU

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1500603639209.jpg, 39KiB, 315x253

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 05:32:04 No.37287467 Report

Quoted By:

>>37287459

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 07:25:26 No.37287890 Report

Quoted By:

>>37284623
>bloisters
HUH?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 07:31:00 No.37287909 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283615
BAD DOG Verlisify

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 07:32:59 No.37287914 Report

Quoted By:

>not running specs electroweb wurmple

Come on, even dustoxfag is an obvious smogonite

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 07:40:49 No.37287931 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283615
still better than beautifly

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 08:26:18 No.37288011 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283615
dustox is garbage though and I loved using it as a kid

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO sr.png, 34KiB, 834x600

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 09:34:51 No.37288149 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283618

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 16:54:47 No.37289349 Report

Quoted By:

>tfw your bro is a waste of a teamslot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 19:57:20 No.37290107 Report

Quoted By:

GUYS! DUSTOX IS SECRETLY S+ TIER BUT SMOGSHILLS ARE SUPRESSING IT! WOLFPACK RISE UP!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 20:07:48 No.37290152 Report

Quoted By: >>37290539

It was underrated ingame when it debuted getting toxic by level up. Never good in PvP. Reusable TMs immediately invalidated it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 20:08:34 No.37290157 Report

Quoted By: >>37291378 >>37291436

>>37285120
the thinng is, one struggle bug and those moves won't be able to even 3ko dustox.
>trick
have fun with your black sludge. most pokemons won't like it.
>b-but taunt
most walls hate taunt, are you going to say the ONLY good walls are the ones with magic bounce?

you are hanging to straws, just admit your gods ware wrong. its not the first time, and it won't be the last.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 20:34:26 No.37290277 Report

Quoted By:

Dustoxfag post some replays if you're so tough

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 20:46:54 No.37290354 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283615
>>37283623
it isn't really a set up sweeper either with those stats and typing it can't do anything at all better than other mons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 21:14:35 No.37290539 Report

Quoted By:

>>37290152
You over estimate the viability of toxic ingame desu. It's always faster to just outright beat the opponent to death. There's no need for subterfuge in game until you get to the Battle Tower and its ilk, and if you're using Dustox for Toxic Stalling instead of something like SubSeed+Toxic Venusaur or something then you're gonna have a bad time.

Also as a Bug/Poison type it has, and always will be a shitty Venomoth

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 23:31:44 No.37291357 Report

Quoted By: >>37291378 >>37291414 >>37293248

>>37284464
>>37284383
>>37284597
It's highest stats are are defense and special defense. Key word INTENDED

>>37284626
Not as reliable

>>37285120
>Using Trick on a pokemon with black sludge

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 23:34:34 No.37291378 Report

Quoted By: >>37292311

>>37290157
>>37291357
>you can't trick Black Sludge back to other Pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 23:40:31 No.37291414 Report

Quoted By: >>37292189

>>37291357
Intended doesn't mean its any good at it.

Quiver Dance is an obnoxiously broken move that makes anything that gets it want to try and utilize it for an offensive sweeping set. Makes Dustox way better offensively than defensively. But it doesn't matter, its literally completely worthless either way, as its outclassed by at least 600 other Pokemon defensively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Dec 2018 23:44:11 No.37291436 Report

Quoted By: >>37292620

>>37290157
>struggle bug
just switch lmao
>black sludge
good point
>muh taunt
most good walls have a way to deal with taunt or not be completely passive while taunted like seismic toss
Dustox has uhhhhhhhhhhhhh poison chance with sludge bomb? You might say struggle bug but it's too passive considering how meager the uninvested special attack of dustox is and you end up completely helpless
>some other stuff
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 234-276 (72.4 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exeggutor-Alola Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 242-286 (74.9 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Exeggutor-Alola Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 262-310 (81.1 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Oricorio-Pom-Pom Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 230-272 (71.2 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252 SpA Oricorio-Pom-Pom Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 342-404 (105.8 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Oricorio-Pom-Pom Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 384-452 (118.8 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aurorus Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 189-223 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dustox: 186-219 (57.5 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
dustox can't switch in and wall for shit against the most popular special attackers used in PU, which means you probably have to hit the with struggle bug on the switch, but you can just be forced out, and they double back to their special attacker and 2hko you after you switch in
none of this considers smogon stones

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 00:00:59 No.37291533 Report

Quoted By: >>37291545

What kind of dustox do you guys think your building

Obviously you should run something like
Substitute
Quiver Dance
Bug Buzz
Electroweb
With a petaya or a salac berry

Basically the only way your setting up with this frail ass bug is behind a sub lets be real, and if you have to sac him because hes weak as shit and cant ohko your opp you might as well slow them down for a revenge kill

Lmao at you guys theorymonning a legit dustox wall or thinking its gonna survive more than a single hit from a switch in by giving it black sludge

Just get in there, do what you fucking can and sac its ass

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 00:03:20 No.37291545 Report

Quoted By: >>37291659

>>37291533
dustox has no immediate power to force switches so it needs Toxic in order to do so. It needs to be able to force switches to ever have a snowball's chance in hell of getting QD up

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 00:21:52 No.37291659 Report

Quoted By:

>>37291545
Just bait a double switch from your opponent by pairing him with a flash fire user or something

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 00:26:10 No.37291679 Report

Quoted By: >>37291835

not even viable on paper in ZU or a hypothetical tier below that, maybe two tiers where it can compete against oddish and makuhita

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 00:59:53 No.37291835 Report

Quoted By: >>37291850

>>37291679
Okay I figured out dustox's niche: Surprise Pex killer

+2 252+ SpA Dustox Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 260-308 (85.8 - 101.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 01:01:51 No.37291850 Report

Quoted By:

>>37291835
Wait shit actually this doesnt work because pex heals sr damage while dustox sets up

Hes shit guys

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO big gay.jpg, 57KiB, 750x736

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 01:16:49 No.37291931 Report

Quoted By: >>37292139

>>37283623
>Clafable

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 02:07:02 No.37292139 Report

Quoted By:

>>37291931
Clefable is pretty much a wall at this point to check Zygarde

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 02:18:56 No.37292189 Report

Quoted By: >>37292235

>>37291414
That’s the problem. We’re going against the intended purpose of using Dustox just because of one move. I won’t deny that Quiver Dance is a stupidity good move, it’s pretty clear that it was never meant to be used as a sweeper. In fact I’m willing to argue that the only reason it even has QD is because Beautifly has it. I know it’s completely shit, but it’s not supposed to be an offensive attacker at all and should not be focused on it for obvious reasons

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 02:32:53 No.37292235 Report

Quoted By: >>37292295

>>37292189
It still is by far it's best set, so you're just going to have to deal with it. Zapdos's best set is a bulky defogger set, even though it was intended to be (originally) a special sweeper, but you don't see autists screeching about its "intended role"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 02:50:03 No.37292295 Report

Quoted By: >>37292342

>>37292235
>Best set by far
>50/50 offenses
yikes
Honestly why are we even arguing the viability of fucking Dustox anyway?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 02:51:57 No.37292301 Report

Quoted By: >>37292320

What is a good nature for Venussaur and Blastoise on LGPE?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 02:55:01 No.37292311 Report

Quoted By:

>>37291378
>Wasting the ability to hit hard or revenge kill on a fucking Dustox
Honestly though that would be hard to do because the basic issue is the opponent will likely know you'd want to trick it to another mon anyways and give you a hard time

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 02:59:17 No.37292320 Report

Quoted By:

>>37292301
For Venusaur, mostly calm or bold nature for its defenses and for Blastoise, mainly modest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 03:03:20 No.37292342 Report

Quoted By: >>37292385

>>37292295
OP is buttmad that Smogon called his bromon shit because he believes "they are using it wrong"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 03:12:26 No.37292385 Report

Quoted By: >>37292543 >>37293284

>>37292342
Technically they are, but I think he's only bringing up Dustox because other mons this applies to are actually good (at least in their respectable tiers).
Case in point, Zapdos

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 03:45:13 No.37292543 Report

Quoted By: >>37292577

>>37292385
To be fair, the thing is that pokemon don't exist in a vacuum. The metagame around them shapes what sets they can get away with running effectively. When the meta changes, so do the sets. In previous gens, Zapdos could get away with running more offensive sets from time to time, but in a metagame like this, even though it's a generally offensive pokemon, the defensive utility it offers is just more useful than its offensive potential.

Hell, you can even look to official formats like Battle Spots Singles as well. There's a few pokemon there clearly meant to do one thing that end up doing another thing better than their original role. That's how metagames work, even outside the context of pokemon, people find ways to use shit that the developers did not intend at all

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 03:52:51 No.37292577 Report

Quoted By: >>37293284

>>37292543
>Hell, you can even look to official formats like Battle Spots Singles as well. There's a few pokemon there clearly meant to do one thing that end up doing another thing better than their original role. That's how metagames work, even outside the context of pokemon, people find ways to use shit that the developers did not intend at all
Actually, best example of this I can think of is Aegislash. IIRC Game Freak came out at one point and said that it was intened to be a Swords Dance sweeper, but people just kept finding other, more useful sets for it. Sometimes what is intended isn't necessarily what ends up being overall good. Dustox may have been intended to be a wall, but in execution, it just doesn't do that well at all

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 04:00:42 No.37292620 Report

Quoted By:

>>37291436
>just switch
thats why the fourth move is infestation
it might have been better to put defog there tough
>good walls has passive attacks to counter taunt
good walls has passive attacks because relying on toxic damage isn't fast enough. if my mendibuzz got taunted ill consider switching rather than going for nightshade or whatever.
>look at all those totally PU mons killing dustox
good point. maybe he is more tactical than a wall. the point is, set up sweeper he isn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 06:49:57 No.37293236 Report

Quoted By:

>>37283615
This piece of crap is a guaranteed loss in random battles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 06:54:09 No.37293248 Report

Quoted By: >>37293277 >>37293324

>>37291357
It's intended to be a throwaway shitmon. Same as all the early game bugs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 07:01:30 No.37293277 Report

Quoted By: >>37293296 >>37293301

>>37293248
donnu man. sleepowder butterfree is pretty dope ingame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 07:03:30 No.37293284 Report

Quoted By:

>>37292385
>>37292577
Zapdos was always a bulky attacker. Back Gens 2 and 3 ReSTalk was its main set. In Gen 4 it got Roost but that was also the same gen Jolteon got Shadow Ball and Signal Beam so there was still no reason to use it offensively when you could instead use it as a decently bulky phazer, especially since Gen 4 is when a lot of the hardest hitting Dragons were forced into Ubers (Garchomp and Latios, followed eventually by Salamence and Latias) giving it fewer things it needed to survive against.

Scizor might be a good example. Only thing it could do in Gens 2 and 3 was Baton Pass. Even at the start of Gen 4 it kind of sucked but Platinum added Bullet Punch to its movepool so it could finally start running offensive sets and not get its shit pushed in. When it was introduced, its strongest STAB moves were Hidden Power of its own types.

Or maybe Swellow. Original best set was Guts + Facade, which changed to Guts + Burn Orb + Facade, which changed to special Boomburst spammer

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 07:05:34 No.37293296 Report

Quoted By:

>>37293277
Compound Eyes was a mistake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 07:08:15 No.37293301 Report

Quoted By:

>>37293277
than you added dream eater to the thing and you get something that hypno wish it could compare.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 07:12:46 No.37293314 Report

Quoted By:

yall should play zu

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Dec 2018 07:15:16 No.37293324 Report

Quoted By:

>>37293248
I’m talking about people wanting to use this shit like OP in competitive

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

On these archives

Your latest searches

smogon thread