/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #37514594

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Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:04:40 No.37514594 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>37514598 >>37514643 >>37514687 >>37515737 >>37516011 >>37518449 >>37520502 >>37521652

Always kind of wondered what the lifespan of Pokemon were
Like, I know there are several exceptions--for example, a Ninetales can live for over 100 years, but how long will Ash's Pikachu live for? Do they all have the same, general lifespan, or are they equivalent to their respective real-life animal counterparts? Does that factor into a Pokemon's rarity? The fact that you don't have to re-train a Ratatata every time your Raticate dies? Does it fucking change when they evolve? Does a Vulpix have the lifespan of a typical fox, and then increases to mythical levels when it evolves into a Ninetales? And for that matter, how are they fucking 'disposed' of? Do you fucking bury a Delphox like a human, or is it into the incinerator it goes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:05:30 No.37514598 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514594
There are graveryards for pokemon and cremation is a thing for humans too

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:07:53 No.37514607 Report

Quoted By: >>37514617 >>37514629 >>37514680

Hard to say. You have Pokemon that die of old age and you have Pokemon that live centuries in a Pokeball in the anime. Some Pokemon in the games go into slumber such as Xerneas and Yveltal then reawaken while you have Pokemon that have been around for a long time such as Palkia and Dialga.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:12:20 No.37514617 Report

Quoted By: >>37514672 >>37514719

>>37514607
Are Pal and Dia even biological? They seem to be quite literal representations/avatars of space and time. Can they die?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:17:38 No.37514629 Report

Quoted By: >>37514660 >>37514754

>>37514607
>in the anime
>canon

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:21:04 No.37514643 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514594
Probably longer than a mouse at least, because a Pikachu living for two years has to suck.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:25:29 No.37514660 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514629
He mentioned both anon, he was talking about the two verses.

Or you think that PokeSpe is more canon than the games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:28:38 No.37514672 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514617
You'd assume so because of how they're treated.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:29:30 No.37514680 Report

Quoted By: >>37514703

>>37514607
and pokemon that just....

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:30:35 No.37514687 Report

Quoted By: >>37514701

>>37514594
Ash's Pikachu seems to be quite old, it seems like Oak had had it for quite a long time, might even be one the first Pokemon he ever caught and he just benched it all these years because of its attitude.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:32:18 No.37514693 Report

Quoted By:

The bond it has with it's trainer probably affects it quite a bit

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:34:12 No.37514701 Report

Quoted By: >>37514716 >>37516011

>>37514687
That's a good point--I kind of forgot about that.
I mean, it doesn't have to be THAT old--it only takes a few years, if even, to realize you have an unruly dog.
But then he HID the motherfucker. It wasn't like he pulled him off the shelf--he had a secret compartment and kept him in his poke ball, while all the other Pokemon were free-range.

The fuck is wrong with Oak?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:34:38 No.37514703 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514680
And then they were eaten by Rayquaza.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:37:21 No.37514716 Report

Quoted By: >>37516210

>>37514701
Well if we're under the assumption that Oak had him for a long time then it might even be before Pokeballs were largely a thing and Pokemon were still highly aggressive and fearful of humans, at least potentially still certain species. Considering Pikachu are at least uncommon to an extent, they might straight up be naturally aggressive and violent compared to some other Pokemon.

I imagine Oak might lock up an old Arbok or Nidoking too. Whereas Starters despite their rarity, even in the anime to an extent are likely bred like Police Dogs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:38:05 No.37514719 Report

Quoted By: >>37514733 >>37514750 >>37517339

>>37514617
The Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, and Arceus caught by the player in-game are probably avatars of more powerful beings, considering their stats have been surpassed by multiple Pokemon no where near their level in the lore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:40:43 No.37514729 Report

Quoted By:

There is an old man in Colosseum that mentions that his treecko is 100 years old.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:41:17 No.37514733 Report

Quoted By: >>37517442

>>37514719
Arceus is an odd one because we directly see creation and its sheer power. It might be a situation similar to Zeno in Dragon Ball or in a lot of mediums. He's not entirely powerful as a standalone, but he just so happens to have an immense power behind him, such as Dialga/Palkia would be time, or even Mew would be the ability to learn virtually every move due to genetics, or Mewtwo being psychically and genetically the strongest Pokemon. They've all been surpassed in one way or the other, so it might just be specific things they can do that make them godlike or powerful beings rather than the whole.

Like for instance, a mathematician will know more math than you or I, but as a whole we might know more than he does and therefore have better overall stats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:47:41 No.37514750 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514719
I am pretty sure that Arceus's dex entry does suggest that we only see an avatar of Arceus true godly form. Then again, the dex does says "Mythology" so we don't really know. On a side not, they should gieve him his Conquest ability, Omnipotent (Increased Evasion, Infinite Range and natural self restorance while his move can not be resisted or nulled)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 04:49:15 No.37514754 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514629
Yes, the anime is canon to the anime.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 12:00:43 No.37515737 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514594
What manga/doujin is this from?
I want to know what's going on with that Pikachu.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 13:45:15 No.37516011 Report

Quoted By: >>37516150 >>37516243 >>37517299

>>37514594
It's implied that Pokemon actually live longer than humans.
Also, Evolution isn't really a phase of "growing up", so there are elders of unevolved pokemon and can probably reproduce. In the anime, elder treeckos are shown and in Colosseum, an elder mentions that his treecko is actually older than he is.
>>37514701
I'm really interested in Pikachu's backstory, especially his life as a Pichu. Why the hell have we learned nothing about him for the past 20 years?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 14:26:23 No.37516150 Report

Quoted By:

>>37516011
Pokemon's story be the games or the anime is exclusively about humans. Pokemon are just there. They are weapons or something akin to that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 14:46:07 No.37516210 Report

Quoted By: >>37516256

>>37514716
>Pikachu are at least uncommon to an extent
I'd say Pikachu is outright rare.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 14:56:12 No.37516243 Report

Quoted By:

>>37516011
Yeah, did they ever explain why Pikachu hates being in the Pokeball? Was it something traumatic? Was it bred? Wild caught?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 14:58:27 No.37516256 Report

Quoted By: >>37516275

>>37516210
>Wild Pikachus available in the games depending on region
>The anime has more than one episode, special or movie showing entire communities of wild Pichus and Pikachus.
>Rare
They may not be regional early route bird/bug/mammal shitmon level of widespread, but they are definitely not rare.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 15:04:59 No.37516275 Report

Quoted By: >>37517059

>>37516256
Wild Pikachu have always had low encounter rates though. You had to either grind or get really lucky if you wanted a Pikachu in Gen 1, and I can't think of a gen that changed this.
In the games it's actually rarer than something like Lucario that you're just given.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 18:10:29 No.37517059 Report

Quoted By:

>>37516275
It's kinda funny how much treatment is given to making Pikachu rare to find despite being a shitmon in the games unless you evolve it into Raichu.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 18:48:58 No.37517299 Report

Quoted By: >>37517338 >>37517469 >>37518947

>>37516011
>Also, Evolution isn't really a phase of "growing up", so there are elders of unevolved pokemon
I always found that extremely interesting.
We tend to instantly associate evolution with aging because we can't help but humanize the pokemon, or maybe think of them in terms of normal nature. Hell, the closest thing we have in nature to the kind of change they go through is metamorphosis, which actually functions as a phase to meet adulthood.
But then again the games have always made clear that pokemon evolve when they get stronger, not older, and there's plenty of owners in-universe who are not trainers looking for battles. I even remember some of the graveyards in the maingames are from unevolved mons.

I wonder how would the pokemon themselves in-universe look at the process, what they'd think of it and of peers of their species who "changed".
I mean, it obviously happens in the wild in harsher zones, but it isn't guaranteed everywhere. And the thought of entire "communities" of wild pokemon who have never even witnessed evolution, let alone know/understand that such a thing in their biology exists, is interesting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 18:54:55 No.37517338 Report

Quoted By: >>37517438

>>37517299
>I wonder how would the pokemon themselves in-universe look at the process, what they'd think of it and of peers of their species who "changed".
>I mean, it obviously happens in the wild in harsher zones, but it isn't guaranteed everywhere. And the thought of entire "communities" of wild pokemon who have never even witnessed evolution, let alone know/understand that such a thing in their biology exists, is interesting.
How many non-Psychic types have the cognitive abilities for something like this? Most Pokemon seem to just be animals that are really good at following orders.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 18:54:57 No.37517339 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514719
Pokegods were a mistake

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 19:12:28 No.37517438 Report

Quoted By: >>37517482 >>37517501

>>37517338
>How many non-Psychic types have the cognitive abilities for something like this?
Every instance the medium allows to picture them beyond just their aspect (aka, not being motionless sprites or lifeless 3D models stuck in a battle UI) and give us information about their usual behavior, there seems to be an intelligent mind under their monstrous appearance. To varied degrees depending on the species of course, but still.
You see them being empathetic as fuck, understanding emotions, communicating with each other, perfectly understanding complex orders from their trainers (not just shouting a move's name), being aware of the situation and able to read the mood, a lot of capacity for team work and coordination, taking their own personal decisions, etc. Even, in the most extreme case I can think of right now, fucking trying to purposely communicate something to a human through signs or by calling its attention towards something.

They're clearly not just animals good at taking orders. There's an intellect there.
It's more like they're their own category of unique beings. There's an intelligence there, but as elemental monster their instincs are also strong as fuck, so they're not normally on the same level of a human in thinking terms.
But close enough to understand us perfectly though. I'd say at least they're on average far above the second most intelligent group in Earth, cetaceans, which have enough logical thinking and comprehension to call to divers for help because they understand our human hands are good at untangling nets and shit.

I guess this is a result of the idea the franchise tries to convey about pokemon being the perfect partner for a kid (the target audience) going on an adventure on the world. They're like the cool "super-monster" version of an imaginary friend.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 19:12:53 No.37517442 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514733
>or even Mew would be the ability to learn virtually every move
Can't learn Crahammer

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 19:17:46 No.37517469 Report

Quoted By:

>>37517299
Some animals can "evolve" under certain circumstances tho, some when exposed to different temperatures or hormones. See the Axolotl for example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 19:20:27 No.37517482 Report

Quoted By: >>37517501

>>37517438
>second most intelligent group in Earth
>cetaceans
I fucked up here, meant to say the Delphinidae family, I mean they're still cetaceans, but it's not the same.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 19:24:33 No.37517501 Report

Quoted By: >>37517643

>>37517438
I honestly don't consider the anime relevant to this topic because it tends to overly-anthropomorphize them for the sake of its audience (young children).
In the games they seem to be along the lines of particularly clever and easy-to-train dogs.
There are definitely exceptions, like nearly every Psychic-type, but that seems to be the norm.

>>37517482
Are dolphins really more intelligent than chimpanzees and octopus?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 19:47:22 No.37517643 Report

Quoted By: >>37518113

>>37517501
>I honestly don't consider the anime
The anime is not the only thign that depicts them with that intellect and comprehension, which is clearly above an "easy-to-train dog". And I may not be able to pinpoint the exact moments when asked, I don't have library in my head, but I'm 100% sure even in the maingames the things I listed happened at least once on the overworld. I don't think psychic types are an exception.
And I think it makes a lot of sense that they depict them like that considering the target audience of the franchise. They wanted them to be extra empathetic for the kids.
Even the official art features them displaying specific emotions sometimes. It's always been like that with all the merchandise since the beginning of the series.

>more intelligent than octopus
Octopuses are cool as fuck and have a surprising ability to solve complex problems and consciously adapt to a situation, but as far as I know they seem to lack emotional intelligence.
>than chimpanzees
Here's the real debate, which experts are still arguing about today.
Some people will tell you the ones, some will tell you the others.
Problem with the Delphinidae family is that the public is not really aware of how intelligent they truly are. In my opinion, after actually learning about them, I do believe orcas specifically are the second most intelligent species on the planet, and I think holding any delphinidae species in cautivity to make them do retarded tricks when they've shown the capacity to understand they're not free and get depressed out of it, is fucking inhumane.
But I'm not an expert though, so don't take me for my word. I'd honestly recommend you to read about them if you're interested.

Here's an old post of mine I wrote about orcas in /wsg/ some time ago.
>tfw you search for a year old post and see how horribly written it is
The eternal pain of an ESL; there's not a piece of text that doesn't feel like it was written by a retard when you reread it few months later.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 21:10:39 No.37518113 Report

Quoted By: >>37518308

>>37517643
Empathy is a common trait in mammals though. Dogs in particular experience a range of emotions and can read their owner's mood. Showing emotions and empathy is not unique to apes and dolphins.
Octopus don't have it, or at least not something easily recognizable as such, because they split from us so long ago, but to say that leaves them out of the running for second-smartest species strikes me as incredibly anthropocentric. Their problem-solving skills are incredible.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 21:46:01 No.37518308 Report

Quoted By: >>37518410

>>37518113
>Empathy is a common trait in mammals though
I admit I don't know much about octopuses and didn't choose the best wording with "emotional intelligence", but where did I say it was only about empathy? The most impressive thing about dolphins and orcas are the complex logical conclusions they are able to reach, not only about themselves, but about other individuals different from them. Their surprisingly advanced intellectual merits have nothing to do with empathy. Just because I talked about how they're able to suffer from real psychological depression doesn't mean I think they're intelligent because they feel emotions; those are two different things.

I know about octopuses' amazing problem-solving abilities, their good memory and learning by observation (as shown by the experiments done with pairs) and their quick behavioral response when presented to new situations/problems (webm related).
But my point is that delphinidaes not only have shown all of those (even if it may not seem like that to the public cause their bodies are worse equipped for solving the usual type of puzzles used in experiments) but everything we know so far also indicates signs of conscious thinking, deliberation, comprehension beyond their own condition and forethought/planning. And I'm aware it's common for other animals to show one or two of those:
Some species of crows for example seem to be able to plan ahead simple tasks to use shit they remember on their favor.
And then there's the famous Portia spiders, which have been demonstrated to be able to solve problems and plan ahead.
But what's impressive about the delphinidae is that they have the entire package. Don't separate a few traits and say other mammals also have them, because with that you're separating the pieces of their context, and every piece matters to the whole.

There was also something about scientists studying how exactly groups communicate to coordinate when hunting, etc, but I don't know where that ended.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 22:05:46 No.37518410 Report

Quoted By: >>37518716

>>37518308
>conscious thinking, deliberation, comprehension beyond their own condition and forethought/planning
Don't octopus have all of these as well?
There's the famous case of the octopus that escaped from its tank at an aquarium every night, ate fish from other tanks, and returned before any humans saw it. It was only found out because they checked the security cameras to see where all the fish were disappearing to.
This required it not only to know how to open the tanks, but also how to navigate the (not underwater) aquarium, when to act without getting caught, and how to leave things looking like they hadn't been disturbed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 22:11:30 No.37518449 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514594
In real life Pokachu would most likely live 20 years on average, while in the anime we already know they can live at least 30-40

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 23:02:31 No.37518716 Report

Quoted By:

>>37518410
>Don't octopus have all of these as well?
I already said I admit I don't know much about octopuses, and I further admit perhaps I was too eager to "take them out of the running" as you (or the other guy in case you're another poster) said.
I remember hearing about the case you just posted. It clearly shows a capacity of cognitive memory (which I already mentioned about octopuses) and planning according to it at least on the level of those canadians crows (I think they were canadians ones?) they claimed were the smartest crows in the world or something and had them solving puzzles.

Anyway, my point about that post wasn't so much about octopuses. I was just trying to say that I think it's a bit unfair to take only "empathy" and "emotion" out of my previous post when I at least made an effort to talk about much more than that regarding the delphinidae family, and specially the orcas.
I do not know if they're really the second smartest animal, again I'm no expert and that's just my personal opinion considering what I learned 2 years ago reading shit about them and what not.
I know there were studies that showed those traits, but I don't know the full extent of those studies nor their conclusions, not to mention all of this is an area of investigation that is still active as fuck and will probably be for decades to come if not more.
With all I currently know about them though, my vote still goes to the orcas.

Regardless, we can at least agree that both groups of animals are exceptionally intelligent and will continue to surprise us in this department. And I really like both of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 23:47:19 No.37518947 Report

Quoted By: >>37518958

>>37517299
>But then again the games have always made clear that pokemon evolve when they get stronger, not older, and there's plenty of owners in-universe who are not trainers looking for battles.

I think that's largely a case of gameplay and lore being incongruent, after all if evolution in-universe worked more or less exactly as it does ingame, then how would friendship evolution work in the wild? If Pichu or Igglybuff can't ever evolve without bonding with a trainer, then how is it possible to find wild Pikachu and Jigglypuff, and how can their lines reproduce in the wild given that babies can't breed? I feel like item and maybe location evolutions are probably canonical but others like level, friendship, and trade are just gameplay abstractions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Feb 2019 23:48:33 No.37518958 Report

Quoted By: >>37519373

>>37518947
Friendship evolutions probably work with any strong bond of trust.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 07 Feb 2019 01:23:37 No.37519373 Report

Quoted By:

>>37518958
>tfw you’re an emotionally stunted babymon, but that also causes you to be physically stunted as well
Whoa.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 Feb 2019 05:25:18 No.37520502 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514594
>How long will Ash's Pikachu live for?

Irrelevant when Ash doesn't even turn eleven after two decades

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 Feb 2019 10:41:04 No.37521652 Report

Quoted By:

>>37514594
There was an old Pikachu in one episode.

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