/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #38543093

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Moves that need a buff or nerf on the next gen?

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:14:30 No.38543093 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>38543130 >>38543182 >>38543379 >>38543654 >>38543675 >>38544125 >>38551188 >>38551458

Why the hell was pic related nerfed so badly?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:18:16 No.38543130 Report

Quoted By: >>38543215

>>38543093
>Drill peck
Needs a wider learner base
Slightly increased critical hit ratio

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:24:59 No.38543182 Report

Quoted By: >>38543429

>>38543093
it was never nerfed and was logically made to become special
if you want to break it give it 30% added effect chance

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:26:10 No.38543188 Report

Quoted By: >>38543202 >>38543207 >>38543216 >>38543311

>Razor Shell
Literally inferior to Liquidation for no fucking reason. Raise it up to 100BP and that's it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:27:51 No.38543202 Report

Quoted By: >>38543262

>>38543188
Liquidation has a 20% chance to reduce defense, Razor Shell has a 50% chance. The tradeoff is the damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:28:22 No.38543207 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543188
It’s distribution is pretty restricted too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:29:10 No.38543215 Report

Quoted By: >>38544019 >>38548551 >>38551372

>>38543130
the only pokemon who would want it that don't already have it are the flying-types without beaks, like Gyarados, Aerodactyl, and Dragonite, who will never get it, so who cares?

Really Leech Life needs a bigger learn base. There's no reason for it to be a TM when everything that would want to use it already learns it by level up. It would be a good option on physical bug types like Beedrill, Scolipede, Heracross, Stingulor, Pinsir, Scizor, etc

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:29:14 No.38543216 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543188
wow it's almost as if it was meant to be themed midgame move

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:33:11 No.38543262 Report

Quoted By: >>38543289 >>38543354

>>38543202
Having a better chance at lowering the opponent's defense just won't cut it. Liquidation is more accessible, has better accuracy and power. Razor Shell is more restricted and should feel more special, kinda like Crabhammer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:37:05 No.38543289 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543262
Or better spread and the ability to be boosted by technician.

Hell they could probably make it like chip away and ignore stat boost or turn it into water retaliate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:40:06 No.38543311 Report

Quoted By: >>38543346 >>38543827

>>38543188
Shell Blade existed for 2 fucking generations before Aqua Break.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:44:24 No.38543346 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543311
That doesn't mean they can't rework on the move. They did change Fire Blast, Thunder and Hydro Pumps bp, remember.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:46:00 No.38543354 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543262
I guess you’re destined to be assblasted about that shit then because it’s a perfectly fair compromise. There’s tons of these moves that function similarly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:49:17 No.38543379 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543093
Scald should have the burn chance at 10% but to make up for it isn't weaker in the sun

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 00:54:54 No.38543429 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543182
I want the added affect to come back

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 01:16:39 No.38543654 Report

Quoted By: >>38543769 >>38544488

>>38543093
>Swift
Now a special equivalent of Quick Attack. Thoughts?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 01:18:38 No.38543675 Report

Quoted By: >>38543721

>>38543093
uniroincally splash

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 01:22:58 No.38543721 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543675
It already got a buff

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 01:29:28 No.38543769 Report

Quoted By: >>38543932

>>38543654
Works fine is as a standard and reliable never miss move.
Just make a new, special, normal-type priority move

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 01:39:13 No.38543827 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543311
Those arent moves though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 01:52:37 No.38543932 Report

Quoted By: >>38544449 >>38548649

>>38543769
>standard and reliable never miss move
spotted the retard who actually plays on wifi instead of showdown

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:02:54 No.38544019 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543215
Beedrill and Stingulor don't have the bulk for Leech Life, ideally they'd be using something else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:16:46 No.38544125 Report

Quoted By: >>38544159 >>38544320 >>38546732 >>38547910 >>38548159

>>38543093
Buff
> Submission/Wild Charge
Too weak.Either remove recoil or increase BP
> Dragon Claw
Increase BP
> Fly
Remove the "charge" turn.

Nerf
> Scald
Burn on a water type move is retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:21:39 No.38544159 Report

Quoted By: >>38544191 >>38544281

>>38544125
I continue to say this, what the fuck is wrong with Scald? It almost never burns and its just a waste when Surf exists.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:25:09 No.38544191 Report

Quoted By: >>38547793

>>38544159
>30% chance to instantly shut down any offensive attacker on a BP80 move with 100% accuracy is okay.
It should be 10%, not fucking 30%.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:34:07 No.38544281 Report

Quoted By: >>38544305

>>38544159
>30%
>Almost never burns
Have you never seen Scald in battle before?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:36:57 No.38544305 Report

Quoted By: >>38544389 >>38544462 >>38544542

>>38544281
Yes, and no matter the side its on I see one burn every 10-20 battles when there is a Scald user. I dont see it as this incredibly broken and super overpowered move like literally everyone else does and thats coming from someone who never even uses it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:38:05 No.38544320 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544125
Nerf Scald, then add a Poison-type equivalent called Fever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:46:24 No.38544389 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544305
>what are probabilities

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:47:09 No.38544398 Report

Quoted By: >>38544419 >>38544447 >>38544585

I do wonder why we've yet to get a strictly Status freezing move, we have one for the other Status Conditions, don't see why Freeze (and the Ice-Type in general) is being neglected in this way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:49:32 No.38544419 Report

Quoted By: >>38544464

>>38544398
>20% chance to thaw every turn
>Doesn't go down after each turn like sleep
>Can stay frozen literally forever

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:52:10 No.38544447 Report

Quoted By: >>38544464

>>38544398
Because Freeze is broken as shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:52:09 No.38544449 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543932
Pokemon isn't built to cater to your autism simulator

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:53:43 No.38544462 Report

Quoted By: >>38544474 >>38544518

>>38544305
>and thats coming from someone who never even uses it
well there you go folks! Scald has a 30% chance to burn, and fucking Fire Blast has a 10% chance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:54:01 No.38544464 Report

Quoted By: >>38544504

>>38544419
>>38544447
and?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:55:34 No.38544474 Report

Quoted By: >>38544553

>>38544462
What the fuck happened to the three elemental moves anyhow, why does Game Freak hate them so much, they got nerfed into the fucking ground and Fire Blast still isn't boosted by Sun the same way Blizzard is boosted by Hail and Thunder is boosted by Rain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:57:25 No.38544488 Report

Quoted By: >>38544538

>>38543654
we need more special priority moves. Vacuum wave is the only one and every pokemon that learns it has shit special attack

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:58:52 No.38544504 Report

Quoted By: >>38544529

>>38544464
And what? You asked why we don't have a move that freezes opposing Pokemon and the answer is that it would be incredibly broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 02:59:59 No.38544511 Report

Quoted By:

Cold Burn and Freeze Shock should just become a 100 BP/100% accurate attack with their effects but without a stupid charge up turn. Maybe also dual type them so they are not just stronger Ice Beam/Ice Punch. Also Glaciate should also reduce the foe's speed by 2 stages, not 1. There is no reason to keep Kyurem shafted when all these new legendaries get special moves that have no stupid drawbacks like that. It's almost as if they want Ice Pokemon shafted forever, even their representative box legendary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:00:54 No.38544518 Report

Quoted By: >>38544665

>>38544462
I said I never use it, I didnt say I never see it. Every fucking possible Pokemon uses it and it almost never burns. Hell, Im using it for the first time on X and despite it being my main water move Ive only seen it burn once so far.
Also if you get boiling water on yourself wouldnt it hurt more over time compared to actual flame assuming the flame doesnt actually catch you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:01:44 No.38544529 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544504
and?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:02:45 No.38544538 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544488
This is wrong. Not surprising

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:02:47 No.38544539 Report

Quoted By:

PLEASE put accelerock on more mons than fuckboy dog, its a useless move if it stays on him

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:02:52 No.38544542 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544305
You haven't watched that many battles then, in tournaments is incredibly common. Anyway, water is a very safe type to attack with and 80bp is pretty decent damage, every non ice water pokemon can learn it so any bulky water type (IE most water types) can just safely sit there and spam the move forever and get free burns and damage, barely any fire type learns lava plume so the only other way to burn is will-o-wisp which is not as safe and doesn't get free damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:04:10 No.38544553 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544474
I think they think those moves are SO POWERFUL, and they're traumatized from gen 3 Thunder in the rain, and gen 1 Blizzard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:06:38 No.38544576 Report

Quoted By:

If Lock-on and Mind Reader sharply increased accuracy in addition to their current effects, they'd still not be worth using, but at least you might be able to have a little fun with a Lock-on/Blizzard/Thunder/FocusBlast Regice or something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:08:10 No.38544585 Report

Quoted By: >>38544639

>>38544398
Make Freeze a Special Burn

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:14:47 No.38544639 Report

Quoted By: >>38544724 >>38544735

>>38544585
Nah I think Freeze remaining as an alt to Sleep is fine, in general I feel like you can associated a number of the status conditions (including the minor ones) with certain types; Burn = Fire, Freeze = Ice, Sleep = Grass, Paralysis = Electric, Poison = Poison, Confusion = Psychic, Cursed = Ghost, Flinch = Dark, Infatuation = Fairy, Healing = Water. That sort of thing, I think a variant of Burn that caused Special Attack to be cut instead of Attack would probably belong to a type that messes with the mind, since Ghost & Dark are already occupied with that I think the Bug-Type would be apt, it could be something based on fear and could lower Special Attack on the afflicted target and have a very low chance for the target to flinch (lower than the chance for confusion to cause self-harm), the effect could only go away if swapped out unlike other volatile effects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:18:30 No.38544665 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544518
Apparently you've just been really unlucky then. You should, roughly, burn a Pokémon 1/3 times you use the move; almost all the other moves that can burn have that as a 1/10 chance. Now you can put it on a bunch of water types, which have the potential to generally be rather bulky mons. Then you see the problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:26:33 No.38544724 Report

Quoted By: >>38544737

>>38544639
While agree with most of that, no one Sleep is the grass one. Sleep is definitely psychic alongside Confusion. Grass is...seeded, I guess? Like Leech Seed?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:28:19 No.38544735 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544639
Also, healing is Normal. If there was to be a status condition associated with Water, the only thing I could think of would be "Drowning" or "Soaked", though I'm not quite sure how those would work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:28:37 No.38544737 Report

Quoted By: >>38544764

>>38544724
Spore is the only 100% Sleep move, you could consider Draining to be Grass-Type's main one though which Leech Seed along with the Drain Moves, Horn Leech & Ingrain would fall under.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:31:24 No.38544764 Report

Quoted By: >>38544945 >>38546101

>>38544737
While Spore is the only 100% sleep move, it's more associated with Psychic in my opinion due to Hypnosis and Dream Eater being those types, alongside Hypno and Musharna being the primary Pokémon associated with sleep, and being psychic types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 03:54:40 No.38544945 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544764
Honestly I'd like to see more moves that work around the Statuses and also just moves that in general fuck with different aspects of the game, priority atm feels like a very underappreciated element of the games, it'd be interesting to see moves implemented that add more weird factors to priority, even if they would be completely banned in competitive I'd like to see Game Freak get more experimental with the moves for the sake of creativity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 07:14:16 No.38546101 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544764
Why the shit is there alot of non psychic&ghost pokemon being able to use dream eater

Trypp F'haag !!bZFPoDj7jq3

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Trypp F'haag !!bZFPoDj7jq3 Mon 13 May 2019 10:18:19 No.38546732 Report

Quoted By: >>38547103

>>38544125
>Burn on a water type move is retarded.
>"What is boiling water?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 12:21:52 No.38547103 Report

Quoted By:

>>38546732
From a mechanical standpoint it's fucking retarded. It's a move given to a type full of bulky mons that would appreciate a burning move, and the only type immune to this status is weak to the move anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 13:02:23 No.38547288 Report

Quoted By:

A Scald nerf already happened in gen 7.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 14:42:07 No.38547793 Report

Quoted By: >>38548759

>>38544191
That literally Lava Plume

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 15:02:46 No.38547910 Report

Quoted By: >>38549300

>>38544125
Scald was already nerfed indirectly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 15:43:21 No.38548159 Report

Quoted By:

>>38544125
>submission is only 5bp stronger than a move that destroys screens and has no recoil, while having far less accuracy
>wild charge was weaker than tbolt with the only secondary effect being recoil damage

What's the point?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 15:46:05 No.38548183 Report

Quoted By:

Bounce should be a one turn move with less chance to para

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 16:50:58 No.38548551 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543215
Leech life seems more fit for predator type pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 17:03:01 No.38548649 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543932
>showdown

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 17:24:37 No.38548759 Report

Quoted By:

>>38547793
And how many mons learn Lava Plume?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 18:42:17 No.38549263 Report

Quoted By:

Octazooka
>65BP 85acc
lmao what is this trash, even before Muddy Water no one would ever think about using it when it's a signature of an already crappy mon

It needs to be at least
>100BP 95% acc

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 18:46:18 No.38549294 Report

Quoted By:

not a move, but run away now allows escape from shadow tag, arena trap, mean look, block and anything that traps
i know it works on wild battles, but it should work on regular battles too

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 18:47:19 No.38549300 Report

Quoted By: >>38551499

>>38547910
How so?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 18:47:38 No.38549301 Report

Quoted By:

illuminate now lowers the accuracy of moves by 5%

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 18:47:38 No.38549302 Report

Quoted By: >>38549316 >>38550351

>all moves need to be competitively viable
You guys are such nerds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 18:51:34 No.38549316 Report

Quoted By: >>38549320 >>38549986 >>38550351

>>38549302
you're right it's much better to bloat the games with tons of useless moves that one will ever use or even know they exist

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 18:52:20 No.38549320 Report

Quoted By: >>38549343

>>38549316
>what is early route moves/battles

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 18:54:53 No.38549343 Report

Quoted By: >>38549933 >>38549948 >>38550351

>>38549320
not everything is like Ember or Absorb, there are a tons of moves that are just pointless and would be better if someone could make them more interesting

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 20:13:38 No.38549933 Report

Quoted By:

>>38549343
Why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 20:14:30 No.38549948 Report

Quoted By:

>>38549343
name 30

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 20:18:36 No.38549986 Report

Quoted By: >>38550022

>>38549316
It's almost like pokemon is designed primarily as a singleplayer game

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 20:22:16 No.38550022 Report

Quoted By:

>>38549986
yeah maybe 20 years ago

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 20:57:45 No.38550351 Report

Quoted By:

>>38549343
>>38549316
>>38549302

I do kind of think it would be good to use as much of the movepool that we have, instead of making more moves that are simply better versions of older attacks.
An indirect buff through abilities or items that help early/midgame moves would be welcome. I would start with something that increases the power of a move depending on its PP remaining; it would be a huge boost to those 40 PP trash moves but wouldn't do much for the endgame moves, especially since it gets weaker as the battle goes on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 22:26:50 No.38551188 Report

Quoted By: >>38551332

>>38543093
You are now reminded that Hold Back exists. If you weren't aware, it is an event-exclusive move that is identical to False Swipe in every way. In order to validate its existence, I would like to see at least one of the following changes made:
a) Make it Special instead of Physical
b) Make it deal damage to Ghost-types, or even fully typeless so it's neutral to everything
c) Make it hilariously strong so that some poor move-starved 'mons can use it as a gimmicky coverage move. It's not like it can OHKO anything, slapping an extra 100 or 200 BP on it would be good for a laugh.
Remember, Hold Back is an event-exclusive move that is wholly identical to a move that already existed as a TM, down to having the same shitty damage as a Z-move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 22:29:15 No.38551201 Report

Quoted By:

First Impression needs a buff maybe it can leave the foe with a flinch or confusion

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 22:45:42 No.38551332 Report

Quoted By:

>>38551188
I wouldn't forget Hold Back. Snorlax is my catcher.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 22:49:41 No.38551372 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543215
>Wanting to buff Scizor

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 22:59:46 No.38551446 Report

Quoted By:

Dragon Tail should be made not only 100% accurate, but a never-miss move
Imposter/transform should work through substitute
Heart Swap should have priority

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 23:00:47 No.38551458 Report

Quoted By:

>>38543093
>X-scissor
80BP --> 90BP, high crit ratio (why the hell would vespiquen get THIS for a signature move when by all means it should be something every bug should have access too?)
>Razor Wind
80BP -->90BP, Flying type, 1 turn only. Now it's flying's equivalent of ice beam and co.
>Tri-Attack
80BP --> 90 BP (considering how few of the things that can learn it would consider using to begin with, I'm surprised it has never been buffed)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 May 2019 23:06:59 No.38551499 Report

Quoted By:

>>38549300
Burns do less damage every turn, meaning they are a net 0 loss if you have leftovers, and Pokemon with Guts will have more health at the end of each turn.
Also Misty Terrain prevents burns from happening for all grounded Pokemon.
And lastly, the bulkier Pokemon that would abuse scald can be easily threatened out by Tapu Bulu (and while it is threatened on switches due to burns, pretty much no scald user wants to tank a powerful grass attack, even when burned), Z-moves, and other offensive threats, making it harder to spam scald.

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