/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #39417511

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Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:10:27 No.39417511 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>39417531 >>39417588 >>39417707 >>39417990 >>39418003 >>39419678 >>39421021 >>39421159 >>39421495 >>39422374

Yeah, I'd say the smogonfags are fucking retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:12:24 No.39417521 Report

Quoted By:

Fuck off Charizardfag.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:13:19 No.39417528 Report

Quoted By: >>39417966 >>39421021

Stealthrocks is necessary, Swagger is trolling

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:13:35 No.39417531 Report

Quoted By:

>>39417511
kys

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:15:21 No.39417550 Report

Quoted By: >>39419453 >>39419484

If you don't have a Defogger or a Rapid Spinner on your team, you deserve the rocks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:21:36 No.39417587 Report

Quoted By:

Who ironically loses due to rocks?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:21:58 No.39417588 Report

Quoted By: >>39417658 >>39417698

>>39417511
Smogon is retarded, but that's not the reason. Making tiers based mainly on usage is fucking retarded. Electivire was OU during gen 4. Eviolite Chansey is better than Blissey but in gen 5 the former was in UUBL and the latter was in OU. Baton Pass was "broken" since gen 2 and nobody gave a shit until gen 7 because it wasn't as popular as it's now. Even then BP has a fucklot of counters. Evasion also does, in fact it has much more counters than BP. Why was evasion banned while BP wasn't? Why banning them in the first place?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:37:49 No.39417658 Report

Quoted By: >>39417698 >>39417748

>>39417588
>Baton Pass was "broken" since gen 2 and nobody gave a shit until gen 7 because it wasn't as popular as it's now.
There wasn't a reliable Speed Booster nor a Fairy-type with Soundproof to block 2/3 of the phasing options.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:47:29 No.39417698 Report

Quoted By: >>39417748

>>39417588
>Electivire was OU during gen 4.
Fair, that shit should be updated
>Eviolite Chansey is better than Blissey but in gen 5 the former was in UUBL and the latter was in OU.
Chansey gets chipped too easily by sand, rocks and Spikes and put in range of stuff way more easily than Blissey in BW since there's fewer ways to remove hazards. Chansey also just begs something like Ferrothorn to set up spikes on its face while Blissey can at least flamethrow it away.
>Baton Pass was "broken" since gen 2 and nobody gave a shit until gen 7 because it wasn't as popular as it's now. Even then BP has a fucklot of counters.
Baton pass chains became hermetically perfect in gen 6 like >>39417658 pointed out. Gen 7 also introduced Z-Moves and shit like SoulHeart/Battle Bond/Beast Boost which pretty much meant just passing some speed to a mon with these and a z-move meant you had a snowballing unkillable god. Hell just passing to a wallbreaker like Medicham or Lele let them do plenty of damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:49:56 No.39417707 Report

Quoted By: >>39417772

>>39417511
It's the Arena Trap ban that pisses me off. Not even a stall-fag but with Z-Moves allowing Pokemon to break through walls they shouldn't, stall really needs a buff. It's too one-sided.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:00:15 No.39417748 Report

Quoted By: >>39417776 >>39417794

>>39417698
>>39417658
Then why didn't they ban Baton Pass in gen 6? Moxie exists since gen 5 and it works pretty much the same as Beast Boost and all these shitty abilities. Hell, in gen 3 people used Ingrain in Smeargle to fuck with potential phasing and they didn't ban it until 2010 IIRC

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:04:13 No.39417772 Report

Quoted By:

>>39417707
>stall really needs a buff
It really doesn't. Nobody wants a stall meta. Gen 2 was tedious enough to ever try something like that ever again

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:04:55 No.39417776 Report

Quoted By: >>39417795

>>39417748
>Then why didn't they ban Baton Pass in gen 6?
They did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:07:49 No.39417794 Report

Quoted By:

>>39417748
>Then why didn't they ban Baton Pass in gen 6?
They complex banned it to stop chains yet still keeping it viable but they outright banned it very late into the gen because they hate complex banning
>Moxie exists since gen 5 and it works pretty much the same as Beast Boost and all these shitty abilities.
Yeah but Z-Moves weren't a thing in gen5 so not everything could nuke the fuck out of would be checks in order to get an easy extra boost.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:07:58 No.39417795 Report

Quoted By: >>39417935

>>39417776
Did they? I only remember a weird softban in passing speed or something like that

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:35:26 No.39417935 Report

Quoted By:

>>39417795
There were multiple complex bans, but they ultimately just threw the whole move out after new ways to exploit it kept cropping up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:41:13 No.39417966 Report

Quoted By: >>39419678

>>39417528
How is it necessary?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:44:55 No.39417990 Report

Quoted By:

>>39417511
Without smogon in singles pokemon in OU and Ubers would be used all the time because thats the only way to actually win in singles without defined tiers. Stealth rock is great because it punishs switchspam.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:47:00 No.39418003 Report

Quoted By: >>39418017

>>39417511
(You)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:48:41 No.39418017 Report

Quoted By: >>39421118 >>39421191

>>39418003
I ain't OP, but banning landorus on a separate ladder, to see how the meta would change, could be a great learning experience on the oversimplification of teams, what with several roles being taken up by a single mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 13:49:29 No.39418026 Report

Quoted By: >>39419319

Rocks are necessary but IMO they should be nerfed to do max 25% to 4x weak mons

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 16:51:06 No.39419319 Report

Quoted By:

>>39418026
This. Also reduce damage to 12.5% for 2x mons. 1 HP for Neutral mons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 17:06:59 No.39419453 Report

Quoted By:

>>39417550
if you don't have a magic bounce, own tempo or special attacker on your team, you deserve the swag.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 17:09:30 No.39419484 Report

Quoted By: >>39419730 >>39419753 >>39420959 >>39420990

>>39417550
I'm glad someone finally sees my point of view:

If you don't have Haze, Clear Smog, Roar, Whirlwind, 1HKO moves, Z-moves, Lock-On, perfect accuracy moves, perfect accuracy abilities, Taunt, Imprison, Minimize counter-moves, Defog, Hone Claws, or Coil, you totally deserve to lose to evasion abusers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 17:25:23 No.39419678 Report

Quoted By: >>39419806 >>39421021

>>39417511
>>39417966
>No stealth rocks
>Balanced Team
>Keep switching to gain the advantage
>Opponent does the same
>90% of the battle is just switching
A bunch of chip damage that helps shortening battles, will only annoy those pokemon who are really weak to them and not good enough

>Swagger
>Get unlucky
>Lose entire turn
>Hit yourself in confusion with a higher attack wich doubles confusion damage or even more if it has been spammed
>Either you get 33% of kills with luck or you force switches with no effort
You can still use confuse beam or other confusion moves, it is a bad strategy that will lose 70% of the time, but it can consistenly give you wins with no effort even in high ladder despite being bad, which is unfair

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 17:30:48 No.39419730 Report

Quoted By:

>>39419484
That's a lot of different options, I'm sure you could fit at least one of those onto any team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 17:33:15 No.39419753 Report

Quoted By: >>39419806

>>39419484
>1000 elo on AG

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 17:39:33 No.39419806 Report

Quoted By: >>39421314

>>39419678
you know how to counter swagger? switch. swagger only has so much pp. it has counters (like special attackers or phtsical walls), but switching is something anyone can do. swagger is a good counter to physhical drush.

>>39419753
this just proves evade isn't op.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 19:51:41 No.39420959 Report

Quoted By:

>>39419484
I'm sure I'm missing shit. Shoulda just listed abilities because there is only one perfect accuracy one.
No Guard, Unaware, Keen Eye.
Also Red Card along the same lines as Roar/Whirlwind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 19:55:24 No.39420990 Report

Quoted By: >>39421153

>>39419484
Most of those don’t work well and the ones that do can easily be bypassed by a strong Pokemon just outright killing you when you try to remove their evasion. Pretty sure evasion has been tested enough times to be seen as annoying and anti-competitive by smogon as well, so they just don’t bother anymore.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 19:58:17 No.39421021 Report

Quoted By: >>39421067

>>39417511
>>39417528
>>39419678
Just a friendly reminder that the name of the move is singular, not plural.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:03:56 No.39421067 Report

Quoted By:

>>39421021
Who the hell cares you literal autist

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:09:52 No.39421118 Report

Quoted By:

>>39418017
You talk like if Lando defined anything lol, it's just a fucking useful mon that you can just glue to your team, the real scary mons (Mage, Ash Gren, Heatran) would have a much bigger effect it they were gone

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:11:18 No.39421125 Report

Quoted By:

Also Swagger isn't even banned anymore fucking retards

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:15:01 No.39421153 Report

Quoted By: >>39421395

>>39420990
>annoying and anti competetive
you mean, it doesn't sit with how they want to play the game.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:15:26 No.39421159 Report

Quoted By: >>39421333 >>39422339

>>39417511
>play AG using a Mothim with Flash
>opponent starts setting up for a baton pass sweep
>flash them until their accuracy can’t drop further
>mfw they don’t have a single perfect-accuracy move on any of their pokemon or abilities to negate accuracy debuffs
>mfw they refuse to simply switch out because they don’t want to lose all their precious stat boosts

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:19:13 No.39421191 Report

Quoted By:

>>39418017
You can't win talking with an NPC.
He's literally only programmed to say that even trying the most requested suspect test in smogon history would not change anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:25:33 No.39421248 Report

Quoted By:

smogo

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:32:47 No.39421314 Report

Quoted By: >>39421373

>>39419806
>Switch
and now the mon that swaggered can set-up, a kommo-o can Z if it swaggered a fairy type, calm mind on blacephalon, etc.

>PP
It has 15-24 PP (don't remember if smogon does min or max PP), either way this is a lot of switching and stalling which the opponent can utilize.

>Special Attackers/Physical Walls + counter physical offensive
The main threat off of this is a potential to skip a turn while damaging yourself (note your get a swords dance with this so even special attackers may take 16% instead of 8% from it),and could be used to help give set-up pokemon like volcarona the time to set up and clean for game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:34:13 No.39421333 Report

Quoted By:

>>39421159
Flash is unironically good as an AG tech to mess with Baton Passers

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:38:58 No.39421373 Report

Quoted By: >>39421495

>>39421314
if you set up the turn after swagger you could have set up on the turn of the swagger, instead of swagger.

in smogon its max pp so yeah its 24 so ok point there
>potential to skip a turn while damaging yourself
yet confuse ray isn't banned and its 100% accurate. the attack boost of swagger isn't so bad if you are using any mon that can handle their own physical attack, and there are plenty of those. the problem is that smogon prefer meta of fast physical attackers so swagger is a no-no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:41:34 No.39421395 Report

Quoted By: >>39421403

>>39421153
You can always play AG. They have a tier for that

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:42:49 No.39421403 Report

Quoted By: >>39421420

>>39421395
yeah, AG is the only good thing in smogon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:44:12 No.39421420 Report

Quoted By:

>>39421403
little cup is also based

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 20:53:11 No.39421495 Report

Quoted By: >>39421546

>>39421373
>>39417511
Swagger was banned because players developed a tactic dubbed "SwagPlay", using a Pokemon with the ability Prankster (before the nerf), and the moves Thunder Wave/Stun Spore, Substitute, Foul Play, and Swagger. It was highly effective because the substitute negated most counterplay and the combined immobilising effects of paralysis and confusion paid off well over half the time. The ladder became clogged with SwagPlay teams comprising: Liepard, Purrloin, Klefki, Whimsicott, Cottonee, Sableye, Thundurus, Murkrow etc. People very quickly became tired of it and Swagger was banned as an easy way out of the mess, not because it's effective on its own.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 21:00:34 No.39421546 Report

Quoted By: >>39421565 >>39422048

>>39421495
Just want to add that the ban had virtually unanimous support at the time. SwagPlay is right up there with Sleep Clause, OHKO moves and Mega-Fug in terms of its capability to ruin the singles metagame.

Not all Smogon bans are bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 21:02:53 No.39421565 Report

Quoted By: >>39421605

>>39421546
>sleep clause
There are several ways to defeat sleep. One is to be immune to their effects because of type (mainly grass), one of the others is insomnia.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 21:08:25 No.39421605 Report

Quoted By: >>39422115

>>39421565
There was no type immunity in the earlier gens, in which Sleep Clause was more important.

The same was true for Prankster, and by extension the SwagPlay tactic (Thunder Wave and paralysis status have also been nerfed since).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 22:01:55 No.39422048 Report

Quoted By:

>>39421546
Wasn’t Sleep Clause NOT from smogon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 22:07:48 No.39422115 Report

Quoted By: >>39422241

>>39421605
Honestly Swagplay should have been banned earlier than it was. You could win games by just being lucky as shit. I can't find it right now but there was some gen 5 replay with a purrloin sweeping a full Ubers team with the set.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 22:23:10 No.39422241 Report

Quoted By: >>39422260

>>39422115
Just use Numel :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 22:25:10 No.39422260 Report

Quoted By:

>>39422241
Go away Verlisify

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 22:26:11 No.39422278 Report

Quoted By:

omgon bans swagge

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 22:32:54 No.39422339 Report

Quoted By: >>39422386

>>39421159
>play on AG
>team of 6 serperiors, all with different strats, granted, but still. shitty team on purpose so i can post the "my planning was Serperior, my play was Serperior, and I lost" copypasta
>some chucklefuck comes in with baton pass team
>starts setting up
>keeps getting bodied by my fucking suicide lead serperior while I glare all of his Pokemon
>eventually gets his evasion up to 2.33x, paralyzes me with magic bounce, and tries to pull it off
>break through all that shit and kill his espeon in a single leaf storm
>whines about RNG and ragequits
Was fucking hilarious. Saved the replay to my hard drive. Baton passers truly are subhuman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 22:35:47 No.39422374 Report

Quoted By: >>39422394

>>39417511
sneaky pebbles is fair and balanced
100% of teams running it is a ok

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 22:36:36 No.39422386 Report

Quoted By:

>>39422339
Holy shit how bad of a player do you have to be to lose to fucking glare Serperior with a full pass team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Jul 2019 22:37:37 No.39422394 Report

Quoted By:

>>39422374
yes I agree, it is completely fair and balanced my fellow smogonbro

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