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Was the Physical/Special split a mistake?

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:28:58 No.40364320 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>40364352 >>40364375 >>40364559 >>40365408 >>40365590 >>40365631 >>40365696 >>40366171 >>40366186 >>40366381 >>40366506 >>40366967 >>40367156 >>40367159 >>40367166

Special types were never meant to do physical dmg and vice versa. It was the fatal game design error that initiated the sickly cycle of power creep.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:30:08 No.40364332 Report

Quoted By: >>40364354 >>40366135

No, it's pretty much necessary as the game starts to have hundreds upon hundreds of Pokemon and Pokemon need a way to differentiate themselves more.

It is a severely overrated change though and the people who act as if the older games are unplayable without it are retarded.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:32:06 No.40364352 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364320
Why you do this Anon
You was a quiet nice smart guy just a minute ago. Reconsider pleasee I beg you

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:32:18 No.40364354 Report

Quoted By: >>40364365 >>40364367

>>40364332
The games aren't unplayable but many Pokemon are unusable, like Flareon and Absol.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:33:31 No.40364365 Report

Quoted By: >>40364388 >>40364557 >>40365803 >>40366219

>>40364354
I love this meme!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:33:49 No.40364367 Report

Quoted By: >>40365634

>>40364354
Flareon and absol are good. You just have to resist the urge to use your STAB attacks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:34:49 No.40364375 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364320
>It was the fatal game design error that initiated the sickly cycle of power creep.

Power creep happened because:

-types are unequal
-movepools are unequal

P/S split has nothing to do with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:35:45 No.40364388 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364365
>NU
I love this meme too!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:49:40 No.40364532 Report

Quoted By:

What noticed most in Gen 4, aside from everything dying faster, is the walls that suddenly tumbled because their formerly purely physical weakness suddenly became reoccurring special ones. But that's to do with decade+ old type rules that Game Freak did not have this stage of the battle system in mind when considering.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:52:36 No.40364557 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364365
>adv nu
wasnt even a tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:52:55 No.40364559 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364320
No

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 01:56:23 No.40364585 Report

Quoted By:

>this autist posted this bait again

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 03:26:18 No.40365408 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364320

The split wasnt responsible for power creep, otherwise Gen 2 wouldnt had been so tanky. Gen 4 onwards gave us more wallbreakers and near perfect coverage through move tutors. Also team preview killed any alternative strats like scouting so the meta became pretty braindead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 03:46:41 No.40365590 Report

Quoted By: >>40365671

>>40364320
Yeah, sure because Fire Punch not doing physical damage makes complete sense. Just fuck off already, you dumb piece of shit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 03:50:24 No.40365631 Report

Quoted By: >>40365750

>>40364320
Do you really think ghost should have stayed a purely physical type?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 03:50:28 No.40365634 Report

Quoted By: >>40365778

>>40364367
>Flareon and Absol are good
They aren't and they never were

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 03:53:55 No.40365671 Report

Quoted By: >>40365855 >>40367072

>>40365590
It 100% does. If someone threw a hot pebble at you, them throwing it with more force wouldn't make the pebble hotter. The amount of fire damage in a fire attack should be determined by the special attack, and if you haven't checked recently fire punch is a fire attack, not a fighting or normal one. If fire punch was a either of those with a chance to burn, it would make sense that it would scale with your strength and therefore be physical.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 03:56:27 No.40365696 Report

Quoted By: >>40365729

>>40364320
No, see pre gen 4 fire types and tell me with a straight face that everything was alright

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 03:59:06 No.40365729 Report

Quoted By:

>>40365696
that was part of a bizarre balancing mechanic because fire-types were immune to burn

it wasn't a coincidence that Dragonite, Gengar had no STAB but good special movepools. GameFreak wanted players to use Normal-type moves for neutral damage, and that mentality changed when pokemon expanded past 1 game

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:01:14 No.40365750 Report

Quoted By:

>>40365631
Purely based on on the design gen 1-3 ghosts it definitely was intended to to at the time.
The reason Gengar stayed so strong for so long to the point where he one of the first blatant nerfs is b/c his stats were designed around not having a special STAB. When you can spam shadow ball/sludge bomb his power level goes through the roof compared to almost every pokemon from gen 1.
Compare him to someone like Banette in gen 3 who's high attack stat costs him every other stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:04:03 No.40365778 Report

Quoted By: >>40365888

>>40365634
Absol was UU in Gen 3.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:06:53 No.40365803 Report

Quoted By: >>40365807 >>40365822

>>40364365
everything else got stronger around it, just like X other Pokemon you're going to screencap off smogon to followup your non-argument

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:07:26 No.40365807 Report

Quoted By:

>>40365803
>everything else got stronger around it,
So Flareon isn't any more usable in gen 4 and the split doesn't actually matter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:08:34 No.40365822 Report

Quoted By:

>>40365803
DP is also when BL stopped being theory based. Remidner shitmons like rampardos and regigas were BL before the revamp.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:11:47 No.40365855 Report

Quoted By: >>40366110

>>40365671
anon the important part of fire punch is still you punching something, the fire just adds heat

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:14:49 No.40365888 Report

Quoted By: >>40365970

>>40365778
because there wasnt an RU or an nu. uu was just not ou tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:23:30 No.40365970 Report

Quoted By: >>40365975

>>40365888
there was an NU in Gen II and III

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:24:20 No.40365975 Report

Quoted By:

>>40365970
there wasnt and nobody played any tiers but uu and ou. i was around back then, you cant bullshit me

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:42:21 No.40366110 Report

Quoted By: >>40366174 >>40366250

>>40365855
But if you are really strong you wouldn't deal more fire damage, you would deal more normal/fighting damage. Firepunch being a pure fire move means that its power is primarily based on your ability to create fire. That would fall under the special attack stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:45:19 No.40366135 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364332
This. You're right one both points

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:49:49 No.40366171 Report

Quoted By: >>40366308

>>40364320
>Was the Physical/Special split a mistake?
No.
>Was the Physical/Special split a mistake?
False.
Don't answer your own question if you want to start a discussion in a forum.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:50:13 No.40366174 Report

Quoted By: >>40366363

>>40366110
then why punch if you rely on fire you dipshit, it's almost like you need the physical prowess to make it work

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:51:10 No.40366186 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364320
Retard

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:54:20 No.40366219 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364365
Gen 4 Flareon didn't even gain Flare Blitz and instead lost Shadow Ball

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:55:49 No.40366230 Report

Quoted By:

pretty sure power creep would have happened regardless

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:57:50 No.40366243 Report

Quoted By:

>thinking hitmonchan should deal less damage with elemental punches than alakazam
>thinking pokemon like sneasel should be fucked over with no good stab thanks to its stat spread
>giving fighting types no viable counter to psychic because dark is special
>making gengar's stab moves useless because they're physical
Physical special split was very important to how the games play and was a great idea because it increased the viable move pool of most pokemon. Not everyone benefited, notably sceptile and typhlosion, but most did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 04:58:29 No.40366250 Report

Quoted By:

>>40366110
>desperately trying to rationalize the mechancis of a children's annual release videogame

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 05:04:47 No.40366308 Report

Quoted By:

>>40366171
The status quo is so heavily shifted in favour of the split to the point that my post has been called bait and accused of being someone else's spam. In that scenario the question needs at least some defense or people might not see what I'm getting at. I intentionally didn't write a long blog post, and kept my statement to bare bones. I could have posted it in a comment immediately after I made the thread but that seems super autistic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 05:10:32 No.40366363 Report

Quoted By: >>40366842

>>40366174
Possibly because the near the base of the flame is hotter than the tip. You might not want to waste thermal energy by letting it radiate away as it travels a long way. Maybe there is also damage dealt based on how your hot hand is. Or perhaps Pokemon who use fire punch haven't yet learned how to control their fire well enough to send it a long ways at at sufficient strength or accuracy.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 05:12:25 No.40366381 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364320
Just because I light my fist on fire before I punch you in the face doesn't mean you don't feel physical pain from me punching you in the face.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 05:28:56 No.40366506 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364320

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 06:14:29 No.40366842 Report

Quoted By: >>40366869

>>40366363
so that makes it physical

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 06:17:50 No.40366869 Report

Quoted By: >>40366878

>>40366842
That makes it a contract move

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 06:19:17 No.40366878 Report

Quoted By: >>40366949

>>40366869
*contact

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 06:29:35 No.40366949 Report

Quoted By:

>>40366878
like most physical

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 06:32:45 No.40366967 Report

Quoted By: >>40367094 >>40367183

>>40364320
>Was the only thing that actively benefitted more mons and allowed countless to be useful than keep them paraplegic a negative?
>Not understanding how past gen 4 there's been nothing but power creep due to other fucking reasons, namely being GF's autistic obsession to slap a 130+ stat on every new mon and then hitting random on everything else
I fucking hate you autists who keep saying "Oh, it's so bad, my sneasel can do damage now boohoo"
Let me ask you this. Put any recent pokemon into pre split and then TELL ME if you saw it change for the better

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 06:53:35 No.40367072 Report

Quoted By:

>>40365671
This hurt my brain.... and my soul

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 06:58:05 No.40367094 Report

Quoted By: >>40367121 >>40367128 >>40367131

>>40366967
>Ash-Greninja now has physical Dark Pulse along with special Hydro Pump
>no longer walled by Chansey

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:04:06 No.40367121 Report

Quoted By: >>40367151

>>40367094
it already has night slash, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:05:05 No.40367128 Report

Quoted By:

>>40367094
Dark was special before the split...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:05:44 No.40367131 Report

Quoted By:

>>40367094
Dark was special back then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:09:50 No.40367151 Report

Quoted By: >>40367200

>>40367121
night slash is shit
what makes greninja oppressive is the flinch rate from dark pulse

you know as well as I do that offensive Pokemon with high mixed stats AND a mixed STAB would do the best pre split

naganadel wouldn't even be UU in a pre split meta

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:10:45 No.40367156 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364320
Physical/special split is as much to blame for powercreep as fixing speed scaling crit chance or splitting spa and spd.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:11:15 No.40367159 Report

Quoted By: >>40367160

>>40364320
The problem was that it happened too late so alot of mons that were actually good like Slaking, Banette and Claydol got fucked hard

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:12:08 No.40367160 Report

Quoted By:

>>40367159
Slaking was never good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:13:49 No.40367166 Report

Quoted By:

>>40364320
>Biting is special
>Throwing a ball of ghost energy is physical

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:17:28 No.40367183 Report

Quoted By:

>>40366967
>>Was the only thing that actively benefitted more mons
It didn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:22:22 No.40367200 Report

Quoted By: >>40367221

>>40367151
Naganadel would be at least uu with no split. It still has Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Nasty Plot, and Thunderbolt, alongside 127 Special Attack and 121 Speed. It also has the special Dark Pulse since dark was special pre-split, and a spammable special Outrage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:27:18 No.40367221 Report

Quoted By: >>40367224

>>40367200
The big question is would they have bothered to add dark pulse, draco meteor or even nasty plot if the split didn't happen?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 15 Oct 2019 07:28:20 No.40367224 Report

Quoted By:

>>40367221
yeah, probably.

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Was the Physical/Special split a mistake?