/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #40537096

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Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 21:29:31 No.40537096 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>40537122 >>40537234 >>40537787 >>40539582 >>40539920

>Ask one of my friends, who is a competitive fag, where my pokebro is

>”They are Untiered, they are worse than PU”

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 21:31:18 No.40537122 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537096
I'm a smogonfag too. Who's your pokebro?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 21:31:22 No.40537123 Report

Quoted By: >>40537189 >>40537812 >>40538464 >>40539966

Your bro wont get ANY buff, while Charizard will get a new form every generation and it's fans will spit on you while praising Gamefreak.

Just a reminder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 21:33:07 No.40537154 Report

Quoted By: >>40537430 >>40538584

smogon singles tiers is basically the only way to ensure the majority of pokemon see any use at all in competitive
to ahead and use your untiered mons, they will certainly make a splash in ZU and PU if you support them well

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 21:35:43 No.40537189 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537123
I don't know, man, if Pelipper can get buffed out of the blue, anything goes

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 21:38:44 No.40537234 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537096
Just because your bro isn't out there in the Major League with (i dont know baseball, i was going to combine Landorus-T's name with a very good baseball player's name), doesn't mean it cant be the star of the Little League.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 21:50:35 No.40537430 Report

Quoted By: >>40537663 >>40537684

>>40537154
Also to be fair some lower tier pokemon can still preform well in upper tiers they don't belong in.

Take these two Venusaur and Torkoal, Venusaur is RU and Torkoal is untiered.
But with the proper support from they can still do work in the OU tier, Venusaur being one of the strongest Chlorophyll users and Torkoal being one of the bulkiest drought setters who also happens to have access to Rapid Spin. It's not that you can't get work done with these Pokemon in higher tiers its just harder, hell even regular Charizard can do well if you get rid of his revenge killer checks and switch him in on a choiced earthquaker.

The tiers are more so just there to create a meta game were these pokemon can thrive rather then just be niche picks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:05:30 No.40537635 Report

Quoted By: >>40537725 >>40537740 >>40537778 >>40538814 >>40539570

Bro what the fuck kind of list is this
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/formats/untiered/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:07:34 No.40537663 Report

Quoted By: >>40537782 >>40538020

>>40537430
People are actually talking about sun teams in OU right now. It’s not exactly a big topic, but people are giving them a shot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:09:00 No.40537684 Report

Quoted By: >>40537774 >>40537782 >>40538960

>>40537430
Torkoal should definitely not be untiered this gen seeing as it has Drought now, but UU council is fucking retarded and banned Drought and Drizzle back in XY and have never lifted that ban to the present date because they insist upon force feeding that tier a fake stagnant metagame. UUBL is a travesty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:12:14 No.40537725 Report

Quoted By: >>40538212 >>40538786

>>40537635
How the hell is Smeargle on there?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:12:49 No.40537740 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537635

>Both Electivire and Luxray

Physical Electric was a mistake

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:16:36 No.40537774 Report

Quoted By: >>40538247

>>40537684
They actually retested Drought and Drizzle a few months back, but still banned them anyway because apparently Venusaur and Mega Houndoom were too much to handle. They also decided to not do anything about stall

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:16:49 No.40537778 Report

Quoted By: >>40538049 >>40538832

>>40537635

This list is why Gamefreak is cutting the dex

Even if it still turns shitty competitively, it would still be nowhere near as bad as it is now

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:17:02 No.40537782 Report

Quoted By: >>40538101

>>40537663
Yeah I was running a Sun/Sand team and wen't 10 W/ 3 L in OU (not that high in the ladder mind you only 1400's) and was surprised by how well it was doing though I feel it would drop off a fair bit without Charizard Y.

>>40537684
I agree mostly, though I tend to rarely fully agree with the Smogon Illuminati, Torkoal feels too good to be untiered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:17:32 No.40537787 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537096
your friend is based but you can work all of the pokemon in Ou if you are that clever

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:19:00 No.40537812 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537123
>Jobizard losing it's megastone
Geodude used stealth rocks!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:36:02 No.40538020 Report

Quoted By: >>40538131

>>40537663
Mind linking me some threads (smogon forums) talking about Sun? (actually just weather in general) I'd love a good read and dont know where to look.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:37:57 No.40538049 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537778
No it’s not

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:42:05 No.40538101 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537782
Charizard Y really isn’t good on Sun teams. Unironically Charizard X provides more

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:45:16 No.40538131 Report

Quoted By: >>40538174

>>40538020
Recent pages of the Viability Rankings

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:48:33 No.40538174 Report

Quoted By:

>>40538131
Thanks!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:52:06 No.40538212 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537725
Smeargle is more a doubles/VGC love child then a singles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 22:56:15 No.40538247 Report

Quoted By: >>40538523

>>40537774
This is what I never understand about Smogon. If the multiple tiers exist so everything is reasonably viable then why ban shit like this? I understand banning accuracy related stuff, and things like the sleep clause and what not but if a weathermon is dominating they should get tossed up a tier and try to find a niche in that tier.That's supposed to be the entire point of tiers so things are flexible without excessive bans and limitations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:15:47 No.40538464 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537123

>implying losing your megastone and only having a 3 turn upgrade will save Charizard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:19:38 No.40538523 Report

Quoted By: >>40538766 >>40538805

>>40538247
Smogon is a purely usage based tier. If the Pokémon don’t get enough usage then they won’t be in the tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:24:07 No.40538584 Report

Quoted By: >>40538727

>>40537154
>ZU
What unholy spawn of satan kind of tier is this?
At this rate Smogon is going to run out of alphabet letters. Fucking gen 7 UU feels like gen 4 Ubers.
I'm going to try playing on the actual official formats this gen, see if I like them better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:36:00 No.40538727 Report

Quoted By:

>>40538584
ZU isn't an actual tier, just a format for everything untiered

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:38:59 No.40538766 Report

Quoted By: >>40538843 >>40538856 >>40538873

>>40538523
But that's kind of my point. If everyone starts using Torkoal for weather set up then you just throw him up a tier and see how it works out for a while. To just ban all weather, or ban styles of play because a Pokemon might become used more often is really defeating the purpose of usage based tiers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:40:47 No.40538786 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537725
Even though Smeargle's movepool is literally infinite, it just doesn't have the stats these days to do its job reliably, leaving it only for niche situations, like sticky web support.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:42:36 No.40538805 Report

Quoted By: >>40538891 >>40540820

>>40538523
Usage is a shit way to decide a pokemon belonging in a tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:43:59 No.40538814 Report

Quoted By: >>40538943

>>40537635
Man I really feel like Swoobat is hella overlooked. Has really good speed, decent coverage and Calm Mind+Simple. Sure it needs a lot of help to sweep, but not even PU? Really?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:46:17 No.40538832 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537778
>they’re cutting the dex for balance!
>game is still unbalanced

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:47:17 No.40538843 Report

Quoted By: >>40539627

>>40538766
That's not how it works. Just because a Pokemon is used a lot in UU doesn't mean it has the tools necessary for people to warrant using it in OU.
Your point is pretty bad. Pokemon, abilities, or moves get banned due to overcentralization, which is what weather is in a UU setting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:48:24 No.40538856 Report

Quoted By:

>>40538766
It’s sort of like deoxys vs deoxys attack, you wouldn’t use something like politoed at a higher rank when peliper exists. It gets banned because it’s too strong for the tier but not strong enough for higher tiers. That’s why they used to call it borderline.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:51:25 No.40538873 Report

Quoted By:

>>40538766
So you’re saying to just slap Torkoal in OU and see what happens?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:53:54 No.40538891 Report

Quoted By:

>>40538805
Take it up with them. I don’t necessarily agree with it either

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:58:55 No.40538943 Report

Quoted By:

>>40538814
Way too frail, it needs screens or Memento to set up safely. It being frail also makes it vulnerable to priority, and without boosting its weak as shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Oct 2019 23:59:58 No.40538949 Report

Quoted By:

It’s okay Goyim, just test out your weather war teams on Anything Goes against 30 gorillian Mega Rayquayquay

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 00:01:12 No.40538960 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537684

the "usage-based" tier system is great on paper but it ends up mis-represnting things when fags of uu council ban ABILITIES. also applies to ou banning shadow tag and arena trap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 00:25:27 No.40539208 Report

Quoted By:

>NOOOOOO I CANT SWEEP BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 00:36:59 No.40539308 Report

Quoted By: >>40539327

>Mega-Gardevoir's overview is literally just "don't use it"

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 00:38:07 No.40539327 Report

Quoted By: >>40539343 >>40539363

>>40539308
???

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 00:39:35 No.40539343 Report

Quoted By:

>>40539327

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 00:41:02 No.40539363 Report

Quoted By: >>40539390 >>40539398

>>40539327
Mega-Gardevoir.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 00:43:33 No.40539390 Report

Quoted By: >>40539636

>>40539363
>OU
Why did you want to use Gardevoir in OU in the first place, mega or not?
It does suck that it's BL in UU though, that hurts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 00:44:00 No.40539398 Report

Quoted By:

>>40539363
I mean they're not wrong
Blame Lele

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 00:57:02 No.40539570 Report

Quoted By: >>40539625

>>40537635
it's ridiculous how big this list is

I will never take competitive Pokemon seriously until Untiered stops existing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 00:58:08 No.40539582 Report

Quoted By:

>>40537096
grab a better bro if you're complaining (^:

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:01:48 No.40539625 Report

Quoted By: >>40539708

>>40539570
Smogon is not the center of competitive Pokemon, you can play official formats.
Do be wary that you'll still get stomped if you use bad Pokemon there though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:01:53 No.40539627 Report

Quoted By:

>>40538843
UU's setting is being intentionally forced to not develop. Staraptor has literally been trapped in BL for a decade+ at this point

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:02:24 No.40539636 Report

Quoted By: >>40539829 >>40539843

>>40539390
Because the only non gimmicky tiers Mega Gardevoir can be used in are Ubers and OU.
So they're going out of their way to advise you from not using it in OU because there are better options. People tend to think that just because a Pokemon is "usable" in a tier, that means it should be "used" in the tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:07:28 No.40539708 Report

Quoted By: >>40539753 >>40539788

>>40539625
let me rephrase that

I will never take competitive Pokemon seriously unless I am able to at least have a chance of winning using any Pokemon I want

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:11:36 No.40539753 Report

Quoted By: >>40539783

>>40539708
Team building is a major part of being a good player. If you could win with literally any selection of Pokemon, the game would be ass.
They just need to buff a shitload of Pokemon, but it's GF so they won't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:14:25 No.40539783 Report

Quoted By: >>40539857 >>40539985

>>40539753
I'm not saying I want all Pokemon to be Mega Rayquaza-tier

I just wanna be able to pull up to an OU battle with a full team of Sewaddle and at least have some chance of winning

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:14:58 No.40539788 Report

Quoted By:

>>40539708
You are able to do that if you're not complete trash

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:17:37 No.40539829 Report

Quoted By:

>>40539636
>RU is a gimmicky tier
Die.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:18:41 No.40539843 Report

Quoted By: >>40539872

>>40539636
If you think tiers other than OU are "gimmicky" then you don't actually understand the entire point of how Smogon is organized.
Tiers are literally the best thing about their format.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:20:01 No.40539857 Report

Quoted By:

>>40539783
Why the fuck would you go to OU where you get swept by ShiftMag or Pert under Rain when you could go to a lower tier.
Tiers exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:21:03 No.40539872 Report

Quoted By: >>40540042

>>40539843
he said Mega-Gard, which is UUBL (i think). I made that mistake too.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:24:45 No.40539920 Report

Quoted By: >>40540138

>>40537096
Do we happen to share a bromon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:28:33 No.40539966 Report

Quoted By: >>40540752

>>40537123
>3 turns
>still Fire/Flying
>doesn't get a new ability
>arguably worse than Dynamax Charizard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:30:03 No.40539985 Report

Quoted By:

>>40539783
>Yeah let’s just buff all the stage 1 NFE Pokémon so one guy can have a chance against fully evolved Pokémon
Fucking pathetic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:37:00 No.40540042 Report

Quoted By:

>>40539872
I always struggle to consider Megas as their own separate Pokemon competitively. Sorry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:46:00 No.40540129 Report

Quoted By: >>40540176

>Your Mega is lower tiered than you

Excuse me

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:46:49 No.40540138 Report

Quoted By:

>>40539920
Humorously enough, Shiftry is basically God-Tier in ZU, and IIRC, is currently being suspect tested (it may have finished).

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO lots of levels.jpg, 16KiB, 625x371

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:49:24 No.40540162 Report

Quoted By: >>40540190 >>40540597

Why don't they make more tiers at the bottom?

That's the whole conceit of Smogon right, you can use any Pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:50:26 No.40540176 Report

Quoted By:

>>40540129
sometimes not using the mega-slot on a team is an asset itself

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:52:20 No.40540190 Report

Quoted By:

>>40540162
There comes a point only 5 people will play on a given tier though if you fragment it that much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:57:19 No.40540220 Report

Quoted By:

Does Smogon think they are funny with the PU tier?

Fuck you

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 01:57:32 No.40540225 Report

Quoted By: >>40540467

Power creep in gen 5 and 7 ruined competitive

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 02:23:00 No.40540467 Report

Quoted By:

>>40540225
But the creep started in Gen 4

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 02:34:00 No.40540597 Report

Quoted By: >>40541198

>>40540162
ZU is in the process of becoming an official tier. It takes time for these things to develop

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 02:48:29 No.40540752 Report

Quoted By: >>40540893 >>40542441

>>40539966
Fire/Flying is still a good type actually, even defensively.
It’s only seen as bad because of Muh Stealth Rocks, which won’t affect 3 turn forms that much.
Gale Wings+Brave Bird wasn’t the only reason why Talonflame was so good in Gen 6.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 02:55:27 No.40540820 Report

Quoted By:

>>40538805
How exactly do you plan on making playable tiers for over 440 Fully Evolved Pokemon, a few extra NFEs thanks to lower tiers and eviolite, and when those metas are constantly changing with new strategies forming that cause certain Pokemon to be more popular in a higher tier than others?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 03:03:14 No.40540893 Report

Quoted By: >>40541181

>>40540752
Can you describe some of Fire/Flying's defense merit?
I'll be the student sitting at his desk and you be the teacher brimming with knowledge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 03:30:56 No.40541181 Report

Quoted By: >>40541272

>>40540893
6 resistances and an immunity while only having 3 weaknesses, one of which is uncommon outside of STAB.
If you want a specific application look at Moltres, who actually has a niche in OU on stall. Its typing allows it best Pokémon like Mawile, Kartana, Bulu, Clafable, Magearna lacking Thunderbolt, Excadrill, and Heatran. Of course, this is part of what gives it its niche, but its typing helps make this possible. It’s still pretty niche though, but it works

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 03:32:43 No.40541198 Report

Quoted By:

>>40540597
maybe it will never be necessary if every generation onward is smaller than 600 pokes total

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 03:41:11 No.40541272 Report

Quoted By:

>>40541181
That's pretty cool, thanks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 Oct 2019 06:10:07 No.40542441 Report

Quoted By:

>>40540752
>Fire/Flying is still a good type actually, even defensively.
Not on Charizard it's not, there's a reason why it's bottom tier.

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