/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #40602844

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:30:34 No.40602844 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>40602848 >>40602862 >>40602872 >>40602879 >>40602916 >>40603014 >>40603018 >>40603034 >>40603062 >>40603410 >>40603820 >>40604447 >>40605007 >>40606075 >>40606098 >>40606224 >>40606288 >>40606336 >>40607651

I just realized natures aren't a good thing and add nothing to the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:31:36 No.40602848 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
Kys casual scum

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:33:45 No.40602862 Report

Quoted By: >>40602890 >>40606022

>>40602844
They were introduced to help differentiate caught pokemon and help the feel unique, unless natures stop performing this then they still add to the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:35:42 No.40602872 Report

Quoted By: >>40602900 >>40603836

>>40602844
They allow Pokémon to fill different roles in a predictable way.

Actually they should make the effects of natures more powerful (20% or 30%) and remove IVs. Practically people just put most of their IVs in the same stats as what their natures boost anways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:36:51 No.40602879 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
I don't mind them now that they're changeable. IVs are worse and have literally no reason to exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:39:50 No.40602890 Report

Quoted By: >>40603143 >>40605995

>>40602862
>feel
keyword

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:41:24 No.40602900 Report

Quoted By: >>40602911 >>40603866

>>40602872
>They allow Pokémon to fill different roles in a predictable way.
The creature design just gets rebalanced around the fact natures exist so it ends up providing no real variety at all. It's illusory and a cop-out for inventing an actual game-changing mechanic, instead of yet another stat-boost/lower one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:43:41 No.40602911 Report

Quoted By: >>40602948 >>40602991

>>40602900
What do you suggest, then?

Multiple movepools for each Pokémon may be interesting but too hard for GF to implement unless they stick to 30 or 40 Pokémon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:44:50 No.40602916 Report

Quoted By: >>40602925

>>40602844
>making pokemon unique adds nothing to the game
You bought LGPE didn't you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:46:49 No.40602925 Report

Quoted By: >>40606011

>>40602916
It does add nothing to the game when it makes no meaningful difference in-game and everyone runs the same min-maxed sets in competitive. Variety doesn't equate to better game.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:51:31 No.40602948 Report

Quoted By: >>40602959 >>40602991

>>40602911
>What do you suggest, then?
What do we lose by removing natures? Nothing.
Natures don't need a "replacement" like removing Abilities would need a replacement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:53:17 No.40602959 Report

Quoted By: >>40602966 >>40603830

>>40602948
Ehh, I don't agree. I'd remove IVs before I remove natures.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:54:02 No.40602963 Report

Quoted By: >>40602989 >>40603092

I'm not sold on the fact that nature's are objectively shit and add nothing (like IVs), but isn't there an argument to be made that nature's are part of the reason being a mixed attacker in Pokemon is almost always an immediate stamp of uselessness?

There's never going to be a setup more optimal than just only using one attack stat, there's no other way to gaurentee every other stat won't come into play but it's very easy to only use physical moves or only use special moves.

And don't nitpick me with shit like mega fug or Lucario being mixed, those Pokemon are blessed with high BST, good abilities, etc. I'm talking about the average shitty mixed attacker like Shiftry or Raichu or something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:54:18 No.40602966 Report

Quoted By: >>40603018

>>40602959
They both should be axed, they only exist for lore reasons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:58:57 No.40602989 Report

Quoted By: >>40603051

>>40602963
>isn't there an argument to be made that nature's are part of the reason being a mixed attacker in Pokemon is almost always an immediate stamp of uselessness?
I don't follow at all.
>There's never going to be a setup more optimal than just only using one attack stat
That's not tecessarily true. You have Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp screwing physical attacks, and you have walls like Blissey and Snorlax screwing special attacks.
>there's no other way to gaurentee every other stat won't come into play but it's very easy to only use physical moves or only use special moves.
It's easy but not hard optimal like you're making it out to be, there are dozens of considerations that need to be accounted for to where, at least once upon a time, having at least one attack type of your lesser stat makes sense---like your Draco Meteor users, for example.
>I'm talking about the average shitty mixed attacker like Shiftry or Raichu or something.
That has more to do with lack of movepool variety, but Pikachu is a Pokemon that definitely can be run as a mixed attacker due to Volt Tackle and Surf. Nidos also had the option even if what they had access to and the threats they could face didn't pose a need to do so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 08:59:03 No.40602991 Report

Quoted By: >>40603036 >>40603070

>>40602948
You lose the equivalent of up to about 40 base stat points that YOU get to choose for many Pokémon, that's what.

They'd obviously need a replacement.

They also have lore attached and the feel evoke by them therefore definitely matter.

>>40602911
For me:
>Now introducing Boutiques and Blacksmiths, >you get clothing and armor bits that are used to modify the look, stats, and even abilities of Pokémon.
>at the end of battles, you'll receive scraps based on what you fought that you use to craft Pokémon outfits in the aforementioned shops >by default the outfits ONLY modify looks so people who don't care about competitive aren't affected (and you won't need them in the lesser difficulties to just play through the game causally either)
>owever, for those who do, you can use further scraps to apply modifiers to clothing that can modify stats in similar but different ways to natures, IVs, and EVs and can even change/add abilities
>with limits, obviously - clothing would only have so many modifier slots and more powerful/useful modifiers would take up more of the slots for balance
Natures remaining as is for lore purposes and even adding more of them since now they aren't connected to anything that matters.

While I'd personally want to go back to 2D as well this would be a good reason I'd accept staying 3D since models would easier to implement this to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:01:45 No.40603014 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
if i want a salamence with a nature that boosts speed and lowers sp.attack and use it with choice band, instead of an attack boosting nature wuth dragon dance, then it should be my choice to do so. It does add to the game, you're just not woke enough to see it yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:02:06 No.40603018 Report

Quoted By: >>40603089

>>40602966
>>40602844
Are you forgetting that natures also exist because of berries?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:04:42 No.40603034 Report

Quoted By: >>40603041 >>40603048

>>40602844
I see where you're getting at, but I personally think they should make natures only boost 1 stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:04:47 No.40603036 Report

Quoted By: >>40603949

>>40602991
>You lose the equivalent of up to about 40 base stat points that YOU get to choose for many Pokémon
So does your opponent, so no worries. Pokemon don't need powerboosts, that does not make the game more interesting or even more efficient---the points you put into an Attack stat could be the points your opponent puts into a Defense stat. It evens out. Nothing has been gained. And even if that does allow your mon to rip through an foe they otherwise wouldn't, how does that make the game more fun or engaging? It doesn't unless you're a tryhard.
>They also have lore attached
Which personalities already cover. Besides, you can remove the stat differences without removing Natures if you seriously care about the lore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:05:46 No.40603041 Report

Quoted By: >>40603048

>>40603034
**I For got to add this: and not decrease another at the same time

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:06:48 No.40603048 Report

Quoted By: >>40603063

>>40603034
>>40603041
That's even worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:07:00 No.40603051 Report

Quoted By: >>40603083

>>40602989

I don't mean using all physical or all special on your entire team, I mean Pokemon by Pokemon it's different. If someone sends out a Blissey against my Vikavolt or Alakazam, I'm going to switch out to a physical fighter that can actually deal with her. I'm not going to start running a mixed Alakazam set with a physical move on "just to be safe" and sacrifice the fact that I can be Modest with basically no downsides.

Yes there are some Pokemon and some attacks that break this mold, but I am assuming you know stuff like Draco Meteor is the exception and not the rule.

And Alakazam, Vikavolt, Raichu, and Shiftry are just random examples they specifically are not really important to the conversation. I hope you know what I mean. Basically what I'm saying is, unless you're a cream of the crop broken top tier Pokemon like Mewtwo or something, OR unless you pack a very specifically bullshit move like Draco Meteor or Scald on like, Emboar for example, being mixed in Pokemon is barely a thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:08:18 No.40603062 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
Dumb frogposter

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:08:21 No.40603063 Report

Quoted By: >>40603075

>>40603048
Why, retard? Natures stay in (for lore). They don't fuck up stats. Everybody wins.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:09:40 No.40603070 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602991
Your idea is essentially equipment slots + items that do more

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:10:41 No.40603075 Report

Quoted By: >>40603139

>>40603063
>They don't fuck up stats
Boosting is still fucking up stats nimrod

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:12:40 No.40603083 Report

Quoted By: >>40603112

>>40603051
>If someone sends out a Blissey against my Vikavolt or Alakazam, I'm going to switch out to a physical fighter that can actually deal with her. I'm not going to start running a mixed Alakazam set with a physical move on "just to be safe" and sacrifice the fact that I can be Modest with basically no downsides.
I like how you chose as your example Pokemon that can't feasibly run mixed sets (based on stats, primarily) to begin with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:13:42 No.40603089 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603018
I meant Natures as stat-changing mechanic foremost. Berry tastes are fine I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:13:48 No.40603090 Report

Quoted By: >>40603128

They're essential to how a Pokemon's stats are calculated in Gen 3 and above, just like IVs, EVs, and base stats. Making a new system yet again would create thr situation with Ruby and Sapphire again, where you couldn't trade/migrate/transfer with any of the previous games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:13:55 No.40603092 Report

Quoted By: >>40603123

>>40602963
I don't see what natures have to do with this. Mixed Raichu is going to be shit and mixed Greninja is going to be viable regardless of the existence of natures.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:16:38 No.40603112 Report

Quoted By: >>40603125

>>40603083

That has got to be the majority of Pokemon in the game. That's my point. I'm not going to sit here and fucking count and sort them all obviously, and I doubt you are either, so no I don't have hard numbers and hard data but I would be interested to see it if someone could produce it.

Do you disagree that running a mixed set on a large majority of Pokemon is never a good idea? If you disagree with that fundamental premise of what I'm saying, than of course we don't agree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:18:39 No.40603123 Report

Quoted By: >>40603165

>>40603092

You're comparing two Pokemon that aren't on the same level and that's why. Of course nature's are not the reason for that. Greninja can be good special, mixed, or physical and Raichu is bad no matter what you try to run on him. That isn't a fair comparison. That goes way beyond nature's and is due to BST size and distribution, type, ability, and movepool.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:18:45 No.40603125 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603112
>Do you disagree that running a mixed set on a large majority of Pokemon is never a good idea?
Yes if we're talking back when the game was still marginally balanced like in Gen V.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:18:51 No.40603128 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603090
No. The problem was that the change from DVs to IVs wasn't something you could get around with a simple algorithm, you'd have to assign transferred Pokemon entirely different stats.

Meanwhile, transferring from a gen with natures to a gen with no natures would be as simple as reversing the 10% boosts/decreases. You'll be able to change natures in SS anyways, so they clearly already have the capability to do this.

DVs to IVs is like converting Fahrenheit to Celsius, Natures to no Natures is like converting Celsius to Kelvin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:19:57 No.40603133 Report

Quoted By:

BASED ALARM

DING DING DING DING

BASED ALARM

BASED AND REDPILLED

DING DING DING

WIIIIIUUUUUU WIIIIIUUUUU

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:20:50 No.40603139 Report

Quoted By: >>40603154 >>40603159

>>40603075
>"Me no like stat boost!"
>Stat boosting moves have been part of the game forever
>Natures (which boost stats) have been in the game almost forever
What's your severely autistic gripe with boosting stats? Like I said: Natures stay in (for lore), They DON'T fuck up stats. Everybody wins (except Spergs like you, who don't like things that improve the quality of life).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:21:18 No.40603143 Report

Quoted By: >>40603175

>>40602890
You know Pokemon is an RPG, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:23:24 No.40603154 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603139
natural stat boost/lower =/= move stat boost/lower
>Natures (which boost stats) have been in the game almost forever
they haven't; they were introduce in Gen III, 3/4 of the time the game's existed

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:24:28 No.40603159 Report

Quoted By: >>40603271

>>40603139
>things that improve the quality of life
How the fuck do they "improve the quality of life", massive retard?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:25:01 No.40603165 Report

Quoted By: >>40604999

>>40603123
Okay, Silvally is a similarly bad shitmon to Raichu but it gets away with using mixed sets in the appropriate tiers. Raichu being bad has nothing to do with the existence of natures.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:26:42 No.40603175 Report

Quoted By: >>40606045

>>40603143
This has no relevance to anything whatsoever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:40:32 No.40603271 Report

Quoted By: >>40603328

>>40603159
Ok, Smoothbrain. let me explain what i'm saying to you terns you'll understand: Natures in the game NOW boost a stat by +10 points, and decrease another stat by -10 points. What i'm purposing GF should do is keep the +10 component, and leave out the -10 component (I'm not saying I want a 1 time Speed Boost ability effect on each Pokemon).
>"How the fuck do they 'improve the quality of life' "
They (bare with me now. You're retarded so i'm taking it slow for you...): (1.) Still keep natures in the game (so the game still has a 'lore' component), and (2.) Do NOT fuck up other stats' usability (you can still have a special move on a mixed attacker without running a defense decreasing Hasty Nature- it will only increase the speed).

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:48:12 No.40603328 Report

Quoted By: >>40603375

>>40603271
>What i'm purposing GF should do is keep the +10 component, and leave out the -10 component (I'm not saying I want a 1 time Speed Boost ability effect on each Pokemon).
No shit. What you fail to realize is, again, a free stat boost with no drawback is a shit idea and legitimately more of a problem than the +/- we currently have.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 09:56:45 No.40603375 Report

Quoted By: >>40606066

>>40603328
>"No shit"
I didn't think anyone would be as stupid to think something so good could be bad. But, turns out there's a lot of ESL people on 4chan.
>"a free stat boost with no drawback is a shit idea and legitimately more of a problem than the +/- we currently have."
No. sounds pretty good to me. Why do you like gimping shit so much? besides, how is it bad, retard? you say it's bad but you never back it up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 10:05:35 No.40603410 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
Fuck you. I like being able to customize a Pokemon's stat spread beyond EVs. I agree that IVs should go as they universally do the same shit for everyone (save for the handful of 0 speed IV users), but natures are completely different.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 11:29:20 No.40603820 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
Literally kys

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 11:30:16 No.40603826 Report

Quoted By:

ITT: why none of /vp/ will ever have the chance to work on a Pokémon game

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 11:30:47 No.40603830 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602959
What’s bad about IV

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 11:31:17 No.40603836 Report

Quoted By: >>40603857 >>40606368

>>40602872
"Put most of their IVs"

Imagine being this casual.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 11:34:55 No.40603857 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603836
>Doesn't use greentext to emphasize the retarded part of a post they're responding to
Imagine being this casual.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 11:36:18 No.40603866 Report

Quoted By: >>40603879

>>40602900
My favorite argument.

>X company is "lazy" for not implementing (Vague idea)

What are Z-Moves, Gigantamaxing...

Like what are your suggestions for game-changin mechanics? Fusing Pokemon? Attacking trainers? Every battle bring Pokken?

Honestly STFU or kys.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 11:38:03 No.40603879 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603866
>Honestly STFU or kys.
You first for completely and utterly misunderstanding the post.
What you listed are turn-based gimmicks that don't affect the Pokemon's character.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 11:48:57 No.40603949 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603036
>-the points you put into an Attack stat could be the points your opponent puts into a Defense stat. It evens out. Nothing has been gained.

By that logic then nothing was lost.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 12:44:38 No.40604447 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
Die frogposter

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 13:35:32 No.40604999 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603165

A few hours too late but you're either being intentionally obtuse or a moron. You and I are not even talking about the same thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 13:36:25 No.40605007 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
Natures are fine its just that they never should have had stats associated with them.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 13:38:45 No.40605029 Report

Quoted By:

Imagine if natures worked like this Haha jk that would be too weird right

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:12:34 No.40605995 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602890
Yeah and the way a player feels is literally the main thing designers focus on

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:13:36 No.40606011 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602925
Variety leads to better gameplay for most

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:14:49 No.40606022 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602862
I don’t give a shit if my Pokémon are unique. Most of the time they are just uniquely garbage that I have to throw and rebreed for one with an actually good nature.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:16:14 No.40606037 Report

Quoted By:

the only problem with natures is how much they encourage min-maxing and fuck over mixed mons
there's a reason nobody uses the "balanced" natures

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:17:07 No.40606045 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603175
Actually the conventions of genre are hugely influential and important on the design of any game

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:19:09 No.40606066 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603375
It's bad because there's no balence, automatically boosting a stat should have a downside, it's good design.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:20:09 No.40606075 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
Lol is it 2002 again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:22:13 No.40606098 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
I just realized that
I'm a Gummy Bear (yes)
I'm a Gummy Bear
Oh, I'm a yummy, chummy, funny, lucky, Gummy Bear

I'm a jelly bear
Yes I'm a Gummy Bear
Oh I'm a movin', groovin', jammin', singin', Gummy Bear
Oh yeah!

[Bridge]
Gummy, gummy, gummy, gummy, Gummy Bear
Gummy, gummy, gummy, gummy, Gummy Bear

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:25:13 No.40606136 Report

Quoted By:

>it makes pokemon feel unique and adds variety
imagine thinking this. nobody cares about their pokemon being "lonely" or having any sort of personality. the closest thing to the game letting you feel close to your mon is with Amie, and that's mostly-only used to cure status, gain more affection, and gain busted in-battle abilities chance to Sturdy, chance to cure status, higher chance to critical. all anyone does is hatch/re-catch mons that have the "correct" nature, completely disregarding ones that don't.

natures would provide a unique/variety aspect if natures gave appearance difference (and potentially different move-sets), which could make use of the Pokedex's form feature that barely any mons get to use because we all know that gender differences are practically nonexistent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:31:38 No.40606200 Report

Quoted By:

>Pokémon now have simply an HP, Attack, Defense and Initiative stay
>Atk and Def work for both physical and special moves, with movepool being the only deciding factor, so something with a wide movepool may have a lower Attack compared to something like an Alakazam with a higher Attack but very few physical moves
>High initiative mins attack first, but have a slightly lower accuracy across the board and a slightly higher evasion, low initiative attacks later, has a lower evasion but higher accuracy

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:33:50 No.40606224 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
>a mechanic that gives a buff and a nerf to a pokemon
It's actually a cool mechanic

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:38:12 No.40606288 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
Who the fuck cares? Just inject

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:42:12 No.40606336 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
I honestly agree, at least the stats. I do like the idea of Pokemon having different personalities but I hate how natures can completely fuck a pokemon.

Modest Machamp for example. I ageee with the idea of natures just boosting stats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 15:46:42 No.40606368 Report

Quoted By:

>>40603836
as a general rule, he is right
with the exception of some speed benchmarks and sure KOs you usually go max in the required stat

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 31 Oct 2019 17:49:27 No.40607651 Report

Quoted By:

>>40602844
T. Brainlet
Natures are one of the more straightforward mechanics in pokemon and a good idea executed well
If you are so triggered by natures just stick to gen 1-2 or play with neutral natures like quirky

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