/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #40845120

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Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:18:07 No.40845120 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>40845342 >>40845387 >>40845550 >>40845623 >>40845655 >>40846419

OK brainstorming time. I know all the starters are mono types but that doesn't mean they have to be shit competitively.
What would need to happen for the Gen 8 Starters to pull a Serperior and rise into OU relevance?
Lets theorycraft stats movepools, and hidden abilities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:24:53 No.40845342 Report

Quoted By: >>40845358

>>40845120
Contrary
Protean

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:25:35 No.40845358 Report

Quoted By:

>>40845342
>implying they would repeat the same hidden abilities
I'd love for Cinderace to have speed boost but some on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:26:19 No.40845387 Report

Quoted By:

>>40845120
Good stats, ability, movepool
they probably will be better for vgc because gamefreak tends to design Pokemon around it more nowadays, see incineroar

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:29:18 No.40845467 Report

Quoted By:

>Contrary Serperior

i remember when i first learned of this

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:30:48 No.40845514 Report

Quoted By: >>40845575

good Hidden ability. that’s why serperior is so good and feraligatr is competent

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:31:41 No.40845550 Report

Quoted By:

>>40845120
Getting broken as shit abilities

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tangrowth.png, 16KiB, 540x160

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:31:53 No.40845558 Report

Quoted By: >>40845655

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:32:28 No.40845575 Report

Quoted By: >>40849107

>>40845514
>feraligatr is competent
I'm still sad that sheer force only brought it up to UU rather than OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:33:59 No.40845623 Report

Quoted By: >>40845754 >>40848987 >>40849523 >>40849904

>>40845120
lets analyze the monotype mons in the current OU meta and why they are OU:

>mega alakazam, retarded high special attack and speed
>tornadus-t, high speed and special attack+regenerator
>serperior, has contrary+leaf storm and above overall speed
>manaphy, has access to tail glow, good stats overall
>chansey, retarded high HP and defense boosts trough eviolite
>clefable, fairy typing, good abilities in magic bounce/unaware, reliable recovery, good bulk
>tangrowth, regenerator+good bulk

so we can conclude that, for the starters to be good they need
>retarded high attack/special attack and speed
>retarded high bulk

now, looking at the starters, by looks only the only one that seems to have somehow high bulk is rillaboom, intelleon might have good speed but i doubt they have above overall special attack, i might be proven wrong but still

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:34:38 No.40845640 Report

Quoted By:

Remember battle bond greninja? Maybe all 3 starters have broken strong dynamax or something to distinguish them

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:34:54 No.40845655 Report

Quoted By:

>>40845558
>>40845120
In regards to being strong as mono types Rillabong and Intelleon have the advantage, especially Intelleon because water is a overpowered typing, but Cinderace needs something special. The only mono Fire Pokemon that were EVER good are Arcanine, and Darmanitan(And the was just in BW).

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:35:06 No.40845661 Report

Quoted By: >>40845737 >>40845944

There's literally never been an OU pure Fire type

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:35:12 No.40845665 Report

Quoted By:

Monkeyfag has intimidate

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:37:09 No.40845737 Report

Quoted By:

>>40845661
>what is gen 5 ninetales

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Gen 8 Stats.png, 15KiB, 316x184

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:37:45 No.40845754 Report

Quoted By: >>40846033 >>40848277

>>40845623
Back during the demo reveal people stated the starters base forms.
Grookey looks bulky (which matches with the final evo)
Scorbunny and Sobble are extremely min-maxed
>Scorbunny - Fast and with incredibly high attack (for a base form) Which matches with the final evo design.
>Sobble - Fast and with incredibly high special attack (for a base form) Which matches with the final evo design.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:44:44 No.40845944 Report

Quoted By: >>40849220

>>40845661
Darmanitan and Gen 5 Ninetales

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:47:35 No.40846033 Report

Quoted By: >>40849038

>>40845754
>95 Atk
>Starter

This is retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 02:59:28 No.40846419 Report

Quoted By: >>40849101

>>40845120
hidden abilities are literally the greatest mechanic they ever added to the game. It actually gave old pokemon purpose unlike megas, another reason why gen 5 is the best.

Anyways, scorbunny will be good as long as it isn't mixed and gets flame charge

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 03:56:20 No.40848277 Report

Quoted By:

>>40845754
Did we ever get actual screen shots of the stats of anything other than corviknight?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:01:34 No.40848455 Report

Quoted By: >>40848677

nobody's mentioned it, but there's a chance the starters could get actually good signature moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:08:37 No.40848677 Report

Quoted By: >>40848855 >>40849144 >>40849444

>>40848455
gen 6
>shitty priority move that got buffed later on, only relevant on a snowflake form that buffed it AGAIN
>fancy protect, nothing game changing but decent
>weak ass special fire move that lowers special attack
gen 7:
>strong physcial ghost move that traps, actually pretty good but not enough to save its user
>dark move that ignores defense, invalidated by a much better move (knock off)
>surf that goes through subs and heals burns
I wouldn't hold my breath for game-changing signature moves if I were you

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:14:11 No.40848855 Report

Quoted By:

>>40848677
just saying they could give rillaboom grass DDance on a whim

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:18:02 No.40848987 Report

Quoted By:

>>40845623
Intelleon was shown doing a spirit gun in one of the art leaks so he might get a big dick signature meme move like the other starters have been getting recently

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:19:33 No.40849038 Report

Quoted By: >>40849854

>>40846033
Abra quite literally has 90 speed and 105 attack

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:21:07 No.40849101 Report

Quoted By:

>>40846419
>flame charge
Why would you want to give it that crappy move? I hope you mean Flare Blitz.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:21:16 No.40849107 Report

Quoted By:

>>40845575
Feraligatr is by no means bad, but even with Sheer Force, it lacked good coverage. Earthquake doesn't hit any single type that resists Water and same goes for Crunch; they were only really useful against things that resisted Water and also had a secondary typing that made them weak to those. Ice Punch was the only legit coverage move Gatr had.

Serperior had even less coverage, but Sub + Leech Seed was enough to beat most would-be counters, and HP Fire allowed it to beat things that Leech Seed stalling wouldn't kill like Ferrothorn

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:22:38 No.40849144 Report

Quoted By: >>40849207 >>40849273

>>40848677
Spiky Shield would have been great if not for King Shield also being introduced in that very same gen.

Spirit Shackle is really good though, Dedudeye might struggle a bit, but that's less because of typing or moves, and more just stats in general.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:24:28 No.40849207 Report

Quoted By:

>>40849144
The point I'm making is that even at their best, the signature moves weren't nearly enough to save pokemon that had other issues.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:25:09 No.40849220 Report

Quoted By: >>40849331 >>40849687

>>40845944
Gen 5 Ninetales was in teams only for its ability. Other than weather setting, it was dead weight.
Sun was much worse than Rain and Sand for a reason. Rain also had a dead weight setter, but the rain abusers got both a speed boost AND a Water STAB boost from their weather while sun abusers only had either one or the other, while Sand had setters that actually did things other than set up weather.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:27:03 No.40849273 Report

Quoted By:

>>40849144
Decidueye would've been decent had it not fallen for the slow mixed attacker curse. Special Attack and Speed should've been swapped desu

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:29:29 No.40849331 Report

Quoted By: >>40849386 >>40849466

>>40849220
The main reason why sun was the second to worst after hail is because it didn't provide a a type synergy as good as sand and rain. Grass types got some nice buffs but duplicating the fire weakness was shit. It took something as horrible as hail to not make it the less viable one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:31:23 No.40849386 Report

Quoted By: >>40849494

>>40849331
That is yet another factor I forgot to add. Yes, what you said also is true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:33:03 No.40849444 Report

Quoted By:

>>40848677
Darkest Lariat is actually very good and has won Worlds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:33:49 No.40849466 Report

Quoted By:

>>40849331
No, sun was bad because type-wise it jobbed to both rain and sand and its setter was weak to SR.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:34:27 No.40849494 Report

Quoted By: >>40850074

>>40849386
It's the capital reason, the weather setters weren't that big of a deal. I think that Abomasnow was better than Ninetails and fucking Politoed, but literally no type other than ice got any advantage in hail, it's fucking stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:35:15 No.40849523 Report

Quoted By: >>40849670

>>40845623
>>tornadus-t, high speed and special attack+regenerator
And Defog
>>serperior, has contrary+leaf storm and above overall speed
A lot of utility to go along with it, particularly its SubSeed Glare set
>>manaphy, has access to tail glow, good stats overall
Good on rain teams as a fat breaker that isn’t too bad against offense, also had reliable recovery
>so we can conclude that, for the starters to be good they need
>>retarded high attack/special attack and speed
>>retarded high bulk
Or they could have a good ability and/or a varied enough movepool to have a niche. Just a thought

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:38:30 No.40849670 Report

Quoted By:

>>40849523
the dex cull will ultimately work in their favor outside of smogon's fanfiction meta, since they won't need to be minmaxed as much base stat wise to be good

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:38:55 No.40849687 Report

Quoted By: >>40850188 >>40850478

>>40849220
It’s still a pure fire type that was in OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:42:19 No.40849854 Report

Quoted By:

>>40849038
Abra quite literally isn't a starter

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:43:40 No.40849904 Report

Quoted By:

>>40845623
keep in mind that being tiered OU is different than being just good since they use usage stats/voting

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:47:53 No.40850074 Report

Quoted By:

>>40849494
Hard disagree. Ninetales and Politoed were like starting the match with one less Pokemon because they suck ass so much
Hail managed to be worse because there was neither Aurora Veil nor Slush Rush so abusers really only benefitted from Blizzard always hitting. The Hail-related abilities were shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:50:34 No.40850188 Report

Quoted By: >>40850669

>>40849687
Not due to its own competence. It just happened to be gifted with an amazing ability that at the time was only shared with the Uber Groudon

Pretty much any other fully evolved Fire-type would have replaced it if one got access to Drought back then. Infact, that's exactly what happened in gen 7 with Torkoal, who's not exactly amazing either but is bulkier and can both set up and remove hazards. Way more than Ninetales can claim to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 04:57:00 No.40850478 Report

Quoted By: >>40850669 >>40850848

>>40849687
By luck in reality same with Serperior
Happen with politoed the next thing to get Drizzle had a high chance of dropping that frog
And pelliper of all things got it and is so much better than toed

I think Torkoal if he had drought in 5 would be better than Tails

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 05:01:03 No.40850669 Report

Quoted By: >>40850965

>>40850188
>>40850478
So? It’s still a pure fire type that was in OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 05:05:21 No.40850848 Report

Quoted By:

>>40850478
Honestly Serperior is different because it has other qualities that make it a good Contrary abuser. Just having Contrary wouldn't be enough; it also had great speed and a nice status movepool with Taunt, Leech Seed, Glare. Of course, Leaf Storm also was a must. Not every Grass type would be able to pull Contrary off that well. It's not like Ninetales, who was used literally only for its ability and had no other redeeming qualities

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 05:08:22 No.40850965 Report

Quoted By: >>40851049 >>40852000

>>40850669
I'm tempted to say that it wasn't Ninetales the one that was OU; Drought was. The ability, and the ability alone was what people wanted. The Pokemon itself didn't do anything, and it was the price to pay to have Drought. Kinda like Charizard was never OU, but its Mega evos were - you'd only ever see Charizard being used there if it were holding a mega stone, and it was even tiered separately from its Mega forms

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 05:10:35 No.40851049 Report

Quoted By:

>>40850965
Ok, but Ninetales was still in OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 05:17:13 No.40851302 Report

Quoted By:

It's not impossible for mono types to be OU but gotta have alot of things going for it

I don't think any of galar guys will be OU but inteleon has the most potential unless they give it infiltrator

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Nov 2019 05:36:00 No.40852000 Report

Quoted By:

>>40850965
Ninetales was still OU.

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