/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #41288395

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248KiB, 1208x744, ABR BTFO.png

Competitivefag Theorymonning Thread #17

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:48:41 No.41288395 View View Reply Original Report

ABR gets BTFO Edition

>all the datamine stuff
https://pastebin.com/u/Kaphotics

>look in the gigamax power collumn to know the bp, new moves are at the bottom
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16-WV-36NsXFf2yuuvs5seF8ohDfhOiitp2q6IHXQUIc/edit#gid=1129058739

>old dogs with new tricks
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/list-of-changes-to-old-pokemon-moves-etc-read-op-before-posting-see-2nd-post-for-the-list.3656151/

>Just use the main Shodown server for Gen8

>presumably event locked:
Starter Hidden Abilities, Fossil Hidden Abilities, Squirtle, Bulbasaur, gen 7 starters, all non-galar legendaries

Previous Thread: >>41279150

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:50:15 No.41288434 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
bumpo to kill the discordfag thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:51:14 No.41288468 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
>btfo
if i cant read through it without feeling sorry for the cunt who wrote it, it isnt a btfo moment

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:51:19 No.41288471 Report

Quoted By: >>41288604

Ok, what is my point in breeding outside of IV's, trying for abilities and balltism?

Is that pretty much it? I don't care about perfect IV's because i'm a filthy casual but it's nice that I might only have to worry about breeding for two specific things (And Masuda method I guess.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:51:38 No.41288482 Report

Quoted By: >>41288690

Why did somebody try to hijack the thread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:53:48 No.41288551 Report

Quoted By: >>41288690 >>41288716 >>41289132

>>41288515

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:55:15 No.41288604 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288471
a mon with bad IVs will deal less damage/take more damage/be slower, that means a lot in competitive pokemon as a single point can mean the difference between a 2HKO/3HKO

for a case where you don't want "perfect IVs", trick room mons always want 0 IVs on speed to always go first after trick room and deal the most damage with gyro ball.

Balltism is only autism.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:55:53 No.41288620 Report

Quoted By: >>41288908 >>41289332

>>41288395
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sleep-clause-in-generation-8.3656311/#post-8286066

that guy watches too much anime

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:57:57 No.41288681 Report

Quoted By: >>41288884

Do rock type Pokemon always have their Special Defense boosted by 50% or something change?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:57:59 No.41288683 Report

Quoted By: >>41288745 >>41289031 >>41289137 >>41289145 >>41289191 >>41290035 >>41290319 >>41291544 >>41296685

So are you guys for or against sleep clause?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:58:11 No.41288690 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288482
Discord faggotry
>>41288551
Haven't used it yet, but either impish or careful should work

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:58:51 No.41288716 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288551
>>41288551
pressure is the only good one
bold 252 hp/252 def is the spread for body press shenanigans
for brave bird/non body press corviknight, you would probably want some speed so you can attack/bulk up before they taunt you

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:59:23 No.41288730 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
Where the fuck do I get a 5iv ditto and can you breed the gigantimax ability over to other pokemon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 00:59:58 No.41288745 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288683
Doesn't really matter when your best option for sleep inducing moves are fucking butterfree and shiinotic

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:02:47 No.41288833 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
>all of you wanting rules as close to carts are hypocrites! We made this simulator, we can do what we wish with it!
>let's make our own Pokemon mechanics, with blackjack and hookers!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:03:53 No.41288884 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288681
Only in sandstorm

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1573187623131.png, 344KiB, 1207x1280

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:04:27 No.41288908 Report

Quoted By: >>41289332

>>41288620
Based Zarel

>>41288395
Fuck ojama and fuck all other retarded smogonfag spergs

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:04:49 No.41288917 Report

Quoted By: >>41288985 >>41289032

>>41288395
Why do people always try start dumbshit arguments about smogon's rules. If it's not sleep clause it's something dumb like swagger. I don't get why people want to use these moves so much, they're just frustrating and create more situations where shit players win due to good luck, which is already a massive problem in Pokemon. I wish Smogon would permaban anyone that discusses unbanning sleep clause or swagger, it's so fucking annoying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:06:53 No.41288985 Report

Quoted By: >>41289081 >>41289234

>>41288917
I mean you could hold a persim berry and get a free swords dance to counter swagger. I think it is more that they are telling people no and people don't like being told no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:08:21 No.41289031 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288683
An asleep pokemon in most cases is as good as a fainted one. Unbanning sleep clause would be the same as unbanning OHKO moves more or less. It just leads to people spamming spore or sleep powder repeatedly until most of your team is asleep.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:08:22 No.41289032 Report

Quoted By: >>41289234 >>41290100

>>41288917
Good players can play around any strat. Have you ever noticed how good Pokemon players stay good by being on top and win consistently?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:10:04 No.41289081 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288985
*Lum Berry

But I don't think that players should have to carry a niche item for something that is uncompetitive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:10:30 No.41289090 Report

Quoted By: >>41289195

Ever since Emerald I was bringing better or worse Mono Bug team to OU and try to be as competitive as possible. I just realised that there are no Rapid Spin compatible Bugs in this game.

RIP monotyping, I guess it's time to embrace our new Dynamax Gyarados overlords.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:11:35 No.41289121 Report

Quoted By: >>41289209 >>41289210 >>41289274 >>41289694

Are people sleeping on Wishiwashi?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_2019-11-17-20-10-40.png, 207KiB, 720x1280

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:11:44 No.41289125 Report

Quoted By: >>41289162 >>41289649

>obviously a fun metagame is not good
did I read that right

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:12:00 No.41289132 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288551
>spread
Specially defensive with Bulk Up, physically defensive otherwise.
>ability
Pressure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:12:12 No.41289137 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288683
For this generation? I don't think it matters much really as there's not many reliable pokemon to abuse sleep.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:12:21 No.41289145 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288683

>It's always seemed odd to me that Sleep Clause is the ONLY exception made where cartridge mechanics are allowed to be changed (besides some things that are just practicalities of playing on a simulator or ease of play changes such as timer / hp percentage mod). Why should it be that way? If sleep moves are broken or uncompetitive I see no reason for them to not just be banned.

^^

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:13:11 No.41289162 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289125
probably mentally compressed 'ridiculous and broken' into the earlier 'fun' category

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:14:09 No.41289191 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288683
it's always seemed pretty stupid that the way you play with it is completely different on simulator and on cart
i prefer it from a gameplay perspective but it's a simulator, so it shouldn't be there

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:14:16 No.41289195 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289090
monotyping this generation is impossible yes
also have fun against monotype water where every mon can max geyser and sweep your entire fucking team

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:14:35 No.41289209 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289121
been seeing Wishiwashi in Dynamax battles I presume? Because seeing it there so often I also got to thinking.

Then again, they also have Hydro Pump Magikarp there so maybe that's a stupid thing to base meta calls on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:14:37 No.41289210 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289121
No I've always loved the giant school of fish, and love using them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:15:14 No.41289234 Report

Quoted By: >>41289353 >>41289571

>>41288985
>>41289032
You can play around RNG strats, sure, but you have to make compensations for it. If you're running a persim berry that means you're not running life orb or a choice item in the hopes that you will come across someone using swagger. You can say the same about guaranteed hit moves/sleep talk/lum berry/whatever. You would need to gimp your team just to accommodate for all of these strats, which would mean your team is weaker and is more likely to lose against teams not running counters to these strats. Therefore it would probably be better if you just ran a team that doesn't counter evasion/swagger/etc and just hope you get lucky on the hit rolls, which leads to a bad RNG filled meta. These clauses don't exist because the moves are too powerful, they exist to make the game fairer and more fun by reducing the RNG and allowing players to win due to their skill and ot because they got lucky.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:16:14 No.41289274 Report

Quoted By: >>41289357

>>41289121
SLOW
FRAGILE
MIXED
ATTACKER

ok, not so fragile but 45 hp doesn't do it any fucking favours

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:17:28 No.41289312 Report

Quoted By: >>41289375 >>41289379 >>41289812 >>41291553 >>41291775

you're welcome for the broken core

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO capture.png, 45KiB, 660x335

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:18:02 No.41289332 Report

Quoted By: >>41289391 >>41289396

>>41288620
>>41288908
God bless zarel, practically everyone else in smogon PR forum is a drooling retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:18:09 No.41289341 Report

Quoted By: >>41289412

>>41288395
Don't know if this has been pointed out yet but G-Copperajah's G-Max doesn't set up Spikes. It actually sets up a Steel version of Stealth Rock.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:18:47 No.41289353 Report

Quoted By: >>41289395

>>41289234
Personally while I can agree that it creates a more fair meta in one sense, I personally dislike some of the clauses as it just narrows down and limits the pool of pokemon that are usable.

So it just effectively makes the game less fun in my opinion because I know I'm just going to see more of the same cookie cutter teams and rarely anything unique.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:18:52 No.41289357 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289274
252HP EVs do wonders for one's bulk

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:19:33 No.41289375 Report

Quoted By: >>41289407

>>41289312
Do elaborate anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:19:48 No.41289379 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289312
>Laughs in Electric type

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:20:11 No.41289391 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289332
(You)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:20:24 No.41289395 Report

Quoted By: >>41289430

>>41289353
It's only swagger, sleep, evasion and mega fug. It's not exactly limiting unless you want to run meme sets, and there's always AG for that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:20:24 No.41289396 Report

Quoted By: >>41289467

>>41289332
Well, the cunt likes something that isnt in the cart, so i can't automatically agree with him.
sure, no discussion is a shitdown, but sleep clause in itself was shitty as fuck. why should a single strategy be banned?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:20:43 No.41289407 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289375
hazard immune balance core that answers 90% of the threats in the meta, everything it loses to is dynamax set up shit that immediately results in the enemy team getting reverse swept by your dynamaxed ditto

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:21:00 No.41289412 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289341
That's actually really nice to know, thanks for the info.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:21:25 No.41289430 Report

Quoted By: >>41289461 >>41289510 >>41291195

>>41289395
Baton Pass too, right?
There's no way they were dumb enough to unban Baton Pass, RIGHT?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:22:25 No.41289461 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289430
What fucker runs bp thats not held back by PokeICE

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:22:38 No.41289467 Report

Quoted By: >>41289548 >>41289597

>>41289396
because it makes using bulky balance/stall a fucking shitshow
you shouldn't get practically OHKO'd just because of your speed mon choices. Sleep Clause is fine, stop trying to make the discussion happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:23:57 No.41289510 Report

Quoted By: >>41289831

>>41289430
Oh shit forgot about baton pass. Even though it's fun baton pass has a history of being stupidly overpowered, and I think dynamaxing will just make it worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:24:42 No.41289539 Report

Quoted By: >>41289836 >>41289914

Bros, how good is Darmanitan? I need answers to see if he lives up to the hype.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:25:00 No.41289548 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289467
Worth mentioning Smogon didn't even create Sleep Clause - Pokemon Stadium did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:25:43 No.41289571 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289234
>if i don't play against one strategy i can be stronger against another strategy ergo that is better

bitch what. you're basically arguing for limiting diversity of the playing field just because that increases the perceived power of your team. I remember back in Gen 2 when we got aerial ace and grew to adjust to evasion meta. All teams grew weaker, because not defending versus evasion was just as big of a gamble as playing evasion. Same with sleep and all other clauses that Smogon enforces.

Apart from Gen1 which was stupid and broken in half due to bugs and lolpsychics, you could easily adjust your meta to any new mechanics, attacks, types, gimmicks or what have you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:26:06 No.41289585 Report

Quoted By: >>41289647 >>41289688

Sleep clause doesn't matter a whole lot for this gen, but removing it for this gen would also imply removing it for all gens, which would cause some issues because that would make sleep moves overcentralizing in the older gens. Removing sleep clause may as well just outright lead to the ban of sleep moves in those gens. Hell, Gen 2 already has a complex ban wrt sleep moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:26:31 No.41289597 Report

Quoted By: >>41289731

>>41289467
>stall
>should be used
I understand wr should respect others opinions, or at least try to, but holy shit
you must be having an aneurysm right now

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:26:41 No.41289601 Report

Quoted By: >>41289654 >>41290301

HOW DO I STOP BUTTERFREE WITHOUT SLEEP CLAUSE THIS IS TOO FUCKING UNFAIR

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:28:18 No.41289647 Report

Quoted By: >>41289845

>>41289585
It wouldn't imply shit come on now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:28:19 No.41289649 Report

Quoted By: >>41289699

>>41289125
presumably he means a fun metagame isn't necessarily healthy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:28:35 No.41289654 Report

Quoted By: >>41289701 >>41289752

>>41289601
Have you tried basically any fast fire type

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:29:25 No.41289688 Report

Quoted By: >>41289845

I don't see a need for sleep clause in gen 8 desu

>>41289585
Not true, swagger is only banned in gen 6 for example

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:29:29 No.41289694 Report

Quoted By: >>41289791

>>41289121
If Neutralizing Gas is on the field when it would tr, would that then atop it from changing? I suppose the same could be said about Archeops, and since the only threshhold that changes it is the health cap, you only need to keep that gas out until it sustains enough damage that would revert it back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:29:34 No.41289699 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289649
id rather have a fun, changing metagame then play the same meta for 9 years like we did with sm

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:29:36 No.41289701 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289654
i think he's being sarcastic, anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:30:23 No.41289731 Report

Quoted By: >>41289824 >>41290974

>>41289597
I fucking hate stall, but it's still a legitimate play-style (as far as it's not overbearing as it used to be with Ditto)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:30:38 No.41289737 Report

Quoted By: >>41289774 >>41289914

Did Seismitoad get something new this gen why is he on every stall team?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:30:47 No.41289740 Report

Quoted By: >>41289819

Doesn't the cart already have sleep clause? I remember it being a thing in the Stadium games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:31:11 No.41289752 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289654
I think you need to get some sleep.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:31:50 No.41289774 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289737
he is one of 3 toxic users in existence

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:32:21 No.41289791 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289694
all ability changing/negate gimmicks fail if used on signature abilities like Schooling, so I will go out on a limb and assume it doesn't work

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:33:03 No.41289812 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289312
taunt dracozolt

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:33:16 No.41289819 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289740
Only stadium games have it, but showdown doesn't emulate stadium because it has other dumb things like showing moves or HP

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:33:22 No.41289824 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289731
>Ditto
sorry, I was thinking about current dynamax bullshit, I meant Dugtrio

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:33:31 No.41289831 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289510
Exactly. Imagine running a Ninjask lead to pass Swords Dance and a couple of Speed Boosts to the designated Dynamax user

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:33:38 No.41289836 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289539
He lives up to the hype really well, but he's frail enough to where you cant use him retardedly

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:33:50 No.41289845 Report

Quoted By: >>41289900

>>41289647
>>41289688
If the logic is that "sleep clause should be removed because it's a significant difference from the cart mechanics" then yes it would lead to it being removed for all gens, because no gen (except for Stadium, which has its own unique can of worms) has sleep clause.

Swagger isn't the same situation because it's just a ban, and not a significant modification of the game's mechanics, at least by Smogon's metric.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:36:02 No.41289900 Report

Quoted By: >>41290140 >>41291021

>>41289845
Precedent doesn't mean much these days, they can contort any reason they want to keep sleep clause in 1-7 while removing it in 8. Opting for "sleep isn't imbalanced in gen 8" rather than "sleep clause doesn't match cart" is one such example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:36:33 No.41289914 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289539
He's very fucking good, not a terrible dmax candidate either due to it switching your choices off temporarily

>>41289737
toxic isnt a tm anymore which is honestly a fucking great change

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:39:49 No.41290024 Report

Quoted By: >>41290044 >>41290147 >>41290523

So, how do we counter hyperaggressive Gyarados/Hawlucha D-max?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:40:14 No.41290035 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288683
I want a sleep clause that prevents you from using sleep moves until the opponent’s Pokemon wakes up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:40:28 No.41290044 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290024
ditto will countersweep dmax gyara most of the time

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:42:16 No.41290100 Report

Quoted By: >>41290384

>>41289032
>Have you ever noticed how good Pokemon players stay good by being on top and win consistently?
What does that have to do with “Just play around Mega Rayquaza” tier arguments?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:43:21 No.41290140 Report

Quoted By: >>41290180

>>41289900
yeah but the argument made by ABR and others in smogon forums hinges entirely on sleep clause suddenly always been bullshit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:43:30 No.41290147 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290024
corsola, ferro, pex

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:44:55 No.41290180 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290140
We'll see what the argument is in a week or two once people decide what outcome they want.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:46:29 No.41290222 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
FUCK GALARIAN DARMANITAN
FUCK BLOATMAXED GAYRAYDOS
FUCK EVIOLITE CORSULA
AND FUCK RETARDO SPEED DRAGON
this gen's competitive is fucking retarded

I'm having fun though

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:48:08 No.41290269 Report

Quoted By: >>41290316 >>41290384 >>41290575 >>41290609

What's the best way to proc Unburden on Hawlucha right now? Some guy on the Smogon forums posted a HO team but it has Power Herb with no way to drop stats so I'm not sure how he's making that work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:49:38 No.41290301 Report

Quoted By: >>41290316 >>41290336

>>41289601
Anon, Butterfree isn’t the only sleep inducer.
And even so, Vivillion has proven that Sleep Powder+No Sleep Clause+Quiver Dance is extremely strong.
Although nothing is as good as a sleep inducer as Vivillion is in AG, Pokemon like Gengar, which gets Nasty Plot and with the Dexcut, would be extremely broken

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:50:04 No.41290316 Report

Quoted By: >>41290519 >>41290520

>>41290269
close combat triggers it

>>41290301
hypnosis gengar is bad even with sleep clause removed

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:50:18 No.41290319 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288683
Just ban sleep moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:51:13 No.41290336 Report

Quoted By: >>41290695

>>41290301
>Anon, Butterfree isn’t the only sleep inducer.
It unironically is the best option right now when the only pokemon with spore is slow as shit and anything else with an sleep inducing move is either worse or doesn't have the room for it anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:51:46 No.41290353 Report

Quoted By:

what're the current thoughts on Dragapult, Grimmsnarl, Orbeetle and Arctozolt? I want to run a team with the four but I have no idea what'd be good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:53:07 No.41290384 Report

Quoted By: >>41290520

>>41290100
Mega Raquaza is still beat out by the primals
>>41290269
Do we still have type gems this gen? Those are great for consuming just for unburden

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:57:57 No.41290519 Report

Quoted By: >>41290600 >>41290643

>>41290316
>hypnosis gengar is bad even with sleep clause removed
Aside from being lucky and having the Meme Argument abilities (Magic Bounce, Insomnia, ect.), how do you even counter Hypnosis Gengar without Sleep Clause?
There is no Chansey to possibly wall it.
There are tons of speedy Pokemon that were removed and nothing faster than it wants to take Stealth Rocks+Shadow Ball.
Hypnosis doesn’t trigger sucker punch.
And pursuit is gone.
Having the opponent’s whole team asleep is a lot better than you think, and remember that this is OU and not AG either and this OU has a lot of powerhouses removed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:57:59 No.41290520 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290316
>close combat triggers it
Yeah, just saw that he changed it from HJK to CC. Makes more sense now, cheers.
>>41290384
Don't think we've had type gems since Unova

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:58:03 No.41290523 Report

Quoted By: >>41290592 >>41290664 >>41290676

>>41290024
Defensive Rotom Wash.
I've been rocking Hydro Pump/Volt switch/will-o-wisp/Paint split.

He's a good D-max vs it too, and they both have to gtfo anyway if you haven't used your D-max up yet because it can wipe them out; and he hits fairly hard in general.

I've heard scarf Rotom too, but it needs you to sac a mon for it to get in if it's 0 def ev'd, and it doesn't outspeed +2 Gyarados, only +1.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 01:59:45 No.41290575 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290269
Close Combat + white herb now
Grass/Electric seed once we get Hidden abilities with Rillaboom/Pincurchin

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:00:14 No.41290592 Report

Quoted By: >>41291183

>>41290523
Gyarados has Power Whip and Hawlucha has pretty good physical fighting moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:00:29 No.41290600 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290519
Good luck even hitting 1

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:00:48 No.41290609 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290269
electric/psychic seed are as reliable as always, you can even use them on your own Hawlucha with zen headbutt/thunder punch

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:02:07 No.41290643 Report

Quoted By: >>41290899

>>41290519
why run a 60% acc 1-3 turn disabler over two of taunt/sub/plot? gengar can't get away with only one offensive move

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:02:59 No.41290664 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290523
You just hard switch rotom in when they send out gyara.
they always dd.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:03:19 No.41290676 Report

Quoted By: >>41291183

>>41290523
Yeah like the other guy said power whip on the sea dragon scares away any attempt from rotom wash sadly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:03:54 No.41290695 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290336
Gengar still has Hypnosis, and so does Milotic. Grimmsnarl also has a G-Max move that works like attacking Yawn.
And the risk of missing a few time with Hypnosis is offset by having your opponent’s entire team asleep.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:04:36 No.41290721 Report

Quoted By: >>41290747 >>41290757 >>41290894 >>41291381

Some autistic Coalossal number crunching no one asked for
With max EVs in HP and SpD, positive SpD nature
>Gyarados
>can survive +1 Waterfall in Sun, 76-90.5% damage done
>can survive +1 Earthquake in Grassy Terrain; 64-75% damage
>can survive both +1 Waterfall and Earthquake if loses Fire typing to Burn Up (no sun); same damage

>Rotom-Wash
>can survive Hydro Pump in Sun, 53-63% damage done
>can survive Hydro Pump if loses Fire typing, same damage
>if specs, can still survive in sun; 79.7 - 94.8%
>even with specs and max SpA attack in sun, 83 - 99%; unless +SpA nature then 88-103% w/ 18% OHKO

>Toxapex
>scald, 40-46% neutral, 18-22% in sun

>Primarina
>Hydro Pump in sun; 70-83%
>if Specs, can only survive with both sun and Fire type loss; 52-62%

>Blastoise
>>unboosted, no sun
>Hydro Pump 108.4 - 128.3% guarantee OHKO
>Surf 87.7 - 104.7% 31% to OHKO
>Scald 79.2 - 93.3%
>>unboosted, with sun
>Hydro Pump 53.7 - 63.2%
>Surf 43.3 - 51.8%
>Scald 39.6 - 46.2%
>>+2 SpA with sun
>Hydro Pump 107.5 - 127.3% guarantee OHKO
>Surf 87.7 - 102.8%, 18% OHKO
>Scald 77.3 - 91.5%

>Arctovish
>neutral, no sun
>with + Atk nature, 96.2 - 114.1% Liquidation
>hydro pump OHKOs even with no EV investment
>surf has 30% to OHKO with no EVs, liquidation same
>survives all in sun

>>>Barraskewda
>>no sun, no band
>Aqua Jet 56.6 - 67.9%
>Liquidation 119.8 - 141.5%
>>sun, no band
>Aqua Jet 28.3 - 33.9%
>Liquidation 59.4 - 70.7%
>>no sun, band
>Aqua Jet 84.9 - 100%, 6.3% chance to OHKO
>Liquidation will always OHKO, even after losing fire typing still has 88.2 - 104.7% w/ 31.3% chance to OHKO
>>sun, band
>Aqua Jet 40.5 - 49%
>Liquidation 87.7 - 104.7%, 31% to OHKO
*putting the extra 4 EVs into defense makes no difference on the physical attack's damage

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO pokemon_corviknight_2x.png, 252KiB, 810x712

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:05:12 No.41290735 Report

Quoted By: >>41291009 >>41291100 >>41291178

Corviknight is probably my favorite of the new Pokemon.

How is he looking? Best ability? Good sets for him?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:05:24 No.41290747 Report

Quoted By: >>41290982

>>41290721
>>41290721
>in sun
yeah good luck with that

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:05:53 No.41290757 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290721
It's still shit, but at least it'll make for some fun endure weakness policy meme sets in 1100 elo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:06:58 No.41290783 Report

Quoted By:

I don't see any problem with putting your opponent to sleep, if you're not good enough to get around sleep you're a pretty shit trainer desu

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:09:18 No.41290854 Report

Quoted By:

Guys, I'm thinking Baneful Bunker on Toxapex as a defense vs D-max sweeps, opinions?

It seems that after 1 Moxie Gyarados's Air Stream 2HKOs after Black Sludge even Bold 252 Def Toxa, so being able to jump in and Bunker up seems good.

Bold 84 Def Toxa is 3HKO after Black Slude so could be a valid option as an addition to standard Calm 252 SpD one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:09:23 No.41290857 Report

Quoted By: >>41291016 >>41291083 >>41291351

How did ingame formats deal with sleep? Was battle spot singles dominates by hypnosis Gengar like people here are saying?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:10:41 No.41290894 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290721
That's actually interesting, not really sure how you'd reliably keep up sun with a set like this but it does sound like 'fun' to use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:10:48 No.41290899 Report

Quoted By: >>41290984 >>41291066

>>41290643
>why run a 60% acc 1-3 turn disabler over two of taunt/sub/plot?
Because disabling your opponent’s entire team is extremely strong, especially when you have such high speed.
And plus, they banned OHKO moves despite the chance of getting 5 Sheer Colds on a row is less than 0.3%, which is because bans are for things that are uncompetitive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:11:45 No.41290927 Report

Quoted By:

>Battle lasts longer than 15 turns
Why

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:12:57 No.41290974 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289731
If you dont switch out a pokemon with sleep its essencially dead but if you do switch out, without sleep clause they can just sleep another one of your mons. Sleep lets tanks and stalls stop pokemon that would probably otherwise be able to get through them and it lets them actually deal with them on their own terms, and to allow multiple mons to be sleeped can easily kill entire games because half your team suddenly becomes unusuable dead weight..

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:13:09 No.41290982 Report

Quoted By: >>41291153

>>41290747
It can set up its own sun, so ideally
>bait fire attack
>switch in to get x4 speed
>Gigantamax to set own sun while they switch or use Burn Up while they switch to drop fire typing
>get weakness policy boost

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:13:11 No.41290984 Report

Quoted By: >>41291344

>>41290899
>Because disabling your opponent’s entire team is extremely strong, especially when you have such high speed.
you are in practice almost never able to do this because it so unreliable

>uncompetitive
there you go with that buzzword again

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:13:56 No.41291009 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290735
he is a solid lategame sweeper if the only threats left are physical via bulk up and roost

someone else here could give you a better set than I could, but

bulkup
roost
bravebird
iron head/u-turn

probably +attack -spa with EVs into speed and attack

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:14:18 No.41291016 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290857
It is just a boogeyman with no basis on reality. Nobody even tried to use sleep moves these 2 days sleep clause was gone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:14:24 No.41291021 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289900
Well that's the rub, the big reason why people want it gone is because it doesn't match the cart.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:15:06 No.41291066 Report

Quoted By: >>41291380

>>41290899
"i don't like it so I'll just call it uncompetitive"

nice way to avoid any conversation

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:15:29 No.41291083 Report

Quoted By: >>41291133

>>41290857
yes.

Trust me when I say that the CasinoGar set was a HUGE part of why Mega Gengar was so fucking reviled. If it landed a 60% move, it basically won, because then it'd set up a Sub and start firing off Hexs and Sludge Bombs. It's nearly impossible to beat without extreme luck on your side.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:15:56 No.41291100 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290735
Very solid, well rounded poke. Has a lot going for it but it's not explosive like shit like Gyara-Dynamax or whatever so it's not huge atm. It'll be a fixture in the meta as time wears on though im sure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:16:56 No.41291133 Report

Quoted By: >>41291418

>>41291083
b-b-b-but anon-san, I thought it was the people USING the sleep who needed extreme luck to win

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:17:31 No.41291153 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290982
Again that's some interesting theory crafting you're going with here, I'm definitely going to see if I can make something with this work now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:18:19 No.41291178 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290735
Specially defensive Bulk Up is quite good, it's also decent as a Defogger but I find myself wanting more moveslots with it. Use Brave Bird / Bulk Up / Taunt / Roost on the Bulk Up set. Mirror Armor has some use but Pressure is the best ability in general imo

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:18:29 No.41291183 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290592
>>41290676

252 Atk Gyarados Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 176-208 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

304HP so 458 D-maxed.
max 208 from whip, but it'll usually be the 140BP Max Overgrowth, so it's +20BP difference which it will still easily stomach.

I think it can Dmax take the hit and OHKO with Max electric/burn it and stall. It's probably correct it's can't hard switch into a D-max'd, unless you're willing to hard predict the DD setup turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:18:51 No.41291195 Report

Quoted By:

>>41289430
i hope drypassing stays unbanned. i love using unaware psych up pyukumuku as an anti-sweeper

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:19:48 No.41291222 Report

Quoted By: >>41292166

Anyone have an idea of who the best hazard removal mons are this gen? Exca / corv wont fit well onto my team. I've been using Morpeko and he is really fun but honestly kinda sucks and has no bulk at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:20:05 No.41291240 Report

Quoted By: >>41291413 >>41291563 >>41294281

Regarding the sleep clause:

You know how other competitive games deal with luck-based strategies?

They don't. If you come to a tournament with 64+ people and your only way to go through is a 60% chance, well, you're not gonna get far, kid. Sleep clause is for whiners who can't deal with occasional loss to off-meta, low percentage, easily disruptible strategy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:23:00 No.41291344 Report

Quoted By: >>41291407 >>41291661

>>41290984
>you are in practice almost never able to do this because it so unreliable
Neither is landing an OHKO move at all, let alone 5.
And plus a Gengar doesn’t need to hit everything with it consecutively, (Especially in a Pursuit-Free Metagame).
You also can’t reliably put everything to sleep with Amoongus or Breloom either in Gens 3-5, and yet Sleep Clause still existed because having multiple Pokemon asleep is extremely strong.
>there you go with that buzzword again
Tons of people in legitimate discussions about bans use this word. It was used plenty of times to describe Shadow Tag and Arena Trap.
Do you think steroids should be legal in sports because people use Uncompetitive to describe it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:23:12 No.41291351 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290857
Sleep isn't as good in the cart formats because you can only use 3 Pokemon so it encourages reliable strategies. In USUM Battle Spot Singles the top ranked sleeper was Gengar at #9 and Hypnosis only played a small role in that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:24:07 No.41291380 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291066
“It’s completely broken so it’s uncompetitive”*

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:24:10 No.41291381 Report

Quoted By:

>>41290721
Update, if you use a neutral nature the numbers are very similar, 9% increase in the OHKO %s, no sun Scald now has a 9% chance to OHKO. Would let you take advantage of all your boosts to run a mixed attacker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:24:47 No.41291407 Report

Quoted By: >>41291525

>>41291344
>you don't support using STEROIDS, do you?
>look at my straw man, it's made of straw

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:25:03 No.41291413 Report

Quoted By: >>41291563 >>41291637

>>41291240
For a one-off tournament this argument makes some sense. For a ranked matchmaking system this is retarded. Something that gives you a 60% winrate regardless of your actual skill would fuck everything up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:25:08 No.41291418 Report

Quoted By: >>41292373

>>41291133
I'm not the same guy you were talking with earlier.

But no, in my opinion, luck based strategies are bullshit because it's not you that has to pay for it. You're forcing the opponent to gamble against their will and then cut their hands off when they lose. Luck based strategies require the guy who's fighting them to get insanely lucky to beat them, because otherwise they'll just instantly lose. It's infuriating.

For example, take CasinoGar. He needs to land a 60% move, with roughly two or three chances to do so depending on the circumstances, and if he does he just wins. This is a luck based strategy, but it's solidly in Casinogar's favor because he only needs to land Hypnosis once: meanwhile, his opponent must evade it at LEAST twice and possibly three times if he got a substitute up. That's three times you need to avoid a 60% move before he dies. And if he lands it, he sets up another sub then just Hexs your entire team to death.

I hate luck based strategies and find them uncompetitive not because they require luck to pull off, but because they require luck to BEAT. If every single game of pokemon came down to a 60% chance to lose it, who the fuck would even want to play it? And that's just Hypnosis, we're not even getting into Sleep Power (especially against Vivillion, who's as bad as if not WORSE than CasinoGar in the Battle Spot in this regard) and god forbid Spore. And this is just for sleep moves. OHKO moves also fall into this, as does Para/Swag and Serene Grace bullshit.

tl;dr, no, it's the opposite, and that's why it's horseshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:28:45 No.41291525 Report

Quoted By: >>41291717

>>41291407
>Immediately discredit someone’s arguments by saying “you are using buzzwords!”
>Person then replies back by giving a sport analogy
>”Uhg why do you think I would support steroids use?”
If you don’t want to be accused of supporting such things, don’t dismiss arguments simply because they use a word you don’t like or understand.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:29:15 No.41291538 Report

Quoted By: >>41291604 >>41292012 >>41292038 >>41298222

What do you guys think of Toxtricity?

+Good SpA with ok attack
+Boomburst and Overcharge hit like a truck
+Shift gear and poison jab to flesh out roll as a mix attack sweeper

-4x weak to ground
-Abillity doesn't work when gigamaxed
-bad coverage
-on the slower/frailer side

any thoughts on him? He feels underwhelming compared to a lot of the other flashier shit that its stomping my ass on showdown

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:29:29 No.41291544 Report

Quoted By: >>41291675

>>41288683
I like sleep clause but it isn't needed this gen
Not in favor on the banning of swagger by the way, I fucking loved the silly cat

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:29:30 No.41291545 Report

Quoted By:

band or scarf for gorilla tactics gdarm?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:29:44 No.41291553 Report

Quoted By: >>41291680

>>41289312
What's so good about the bird?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:29:57 No.41291563 Report

Quoted By: >>41292693

>>41291240
This. If you lost against this, then his gimmick was statistically lucky, but the luck has to run out sometime.
>>41291413
That also makes no difference. Consider a 60% winrate must also mean they'd theoretically lose 40% of the time. Since elo works differently than just counting Ws to advance rank, losing 40% of the time will probably keep you stuck in elo hell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:30:49 No.41291592 Report

Quoted By:

Any online battles to watch?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:31:05 No.41291604 Report

Quoted By: >>41293134

>>41291538
Overcharge hits both in doubles. He stands a chance there if you can do something about his speed/ground weakness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:31:54 No.41291637 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291413
and yet those games still thrive. wonder why! maybe because. your argument is pulled out of your ass because you don't understand how math works?

The thing is, having 60% move doesn't mean you get 60% win in your elo range as opposed to 50% of everybody else (because that's what elo range is supposed to do - have everybody on the same skill level win about 50% of the time). It means that your strategy inherently has inbuilt 60% limiter to its MAXIMUM effectiveness.

Read up on compound possibilities and report back when you understand a bit more and aren't just letting your emotions and misunderstanding of the subject matter lead you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:32:45 No.41291661 Report

Quoted By: >>41292373

>>41291344
Sleep mechanics were significantly stronger in gen 5 and Breloom was top tier, the fact that you even attempt using that as a comparison discredits you.

>It was used plenty of times to describe Shadow Tag and Arena Trap.
These usages were also a complete farce, because it was always ok for some reason when trappers I liked (Magnezone) did it, or when it was in gens where it didn't annoy me (Gen 3).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:33:08 No.41291675 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291544
Sleep Clause is still very much needed

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:33:13 No.41291680 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291553
>Higher attack Skarmory with bulk up/roost that can just wall certain teams

His issue is a lack the of support options (read: 0 hazards) that Skarm brings. But he's still an absolute wall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:34:16 No.41291717 Report

Quoted By: >>41292414

>>41291525
Calling something "uncompetitive" in an attempt to shut down further discussion is not an argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:36:09 No.41291775 Report

Quoted By: >>41291955

>>41289312
bros, is it finally Arcanine's turn to shine?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:37:19 No.41291808 Report

Quoted By:

The hell is going on at Smogon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:40:14 No.41291910 Report

Quoted By: >>41291963 >>41291981 >>41292056 >>41292272 >>41293376

What's the best dynamax sweeper after Gyarados and Hawlucha? The main argument I see against banning dynamax is that there are too many pokemon who can abuse it, but what else is strong enough to reliably sweep even after their dynamax wears off?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:40:35 No.41291925 Report

Quoted By: >>41291963 >>41291989 >>41292665

Will Rillaboom be OU lads?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:41:26 No.41291955 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291775
He was always a great pokemon, even in Stealth Rocks.
Heavy duty boots dont do too much for him

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:41:42 No.41291963 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291910
uhh we don't know yet but we have to ban it before things get out of control!

>>41291925
maybe

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:42:27 No.41291981 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291910
>against banning dynamax
whoops, meant "for banning dynamax"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:42:47 No.41291989 Report

Quoted By: >>41292043

>>41291925
If Grassy Surge Rillaboom is ever released, probably. Shit is so strong for the main pokemon and god help you if it comes with a Grassy seeds Hawlucha

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:43:29 No.41292012 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291538
>ability doesn't work when gigamaxed
gigantomax is fucking stupid, holy shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:44:16 No.41292038 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291538
bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:44:23 No.41292043 Report

Quoted By: >>41292130 >>41292489

>>41291989
speaking of idle guessing - will protean 2.0 rabbit be OU+ material?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:44:59 No.41292056 Report

Quoted By: >>41292115 >>41293095

>>41291910
Dragon Dance Dynamax Kyurem-B stands as one of the best by the reasons subzero slammer kyurem-b was such a common sight

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:45:59 No.41292093 Report

Quoted By:

Has anyone thought up a good cramorant set yet? I want to spit pikachus and fish at my enemies!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:46:39 No.41292115 Report

Quoted By: >>41292140 >>41292424

>>41292056
are people already playing with unreleased pokes and abilities on simulators? I kinda want to see what should I create to be competitive online now, not in couple moths.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:47:14 No.41292130 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292043
Protean is a top 3 Ability on anyone that isnt Keckleon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:47:21 No.41292133 Report

Quoted By: >>41292170 >>41292301

>dynamax Shedinja
Do you get two (2) hitpoints?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:47:26 No.41292140 Report

Quoted By: >>41292178

>>41292115
they were in an earlier beta but aren't available now

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:48:12 No.41292166 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291222
>https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ou-metagame-discussion.3656245/
Here's a convenient list of all the defoggers/spinners we still have, I know it can be annoying trying to figure out what actually still has it in builder. G-Weezing, Conk, and Mandibuzz are the obvious standouts on that list, there's also Hatterene and Xatu if Magic Bounce suits your purposes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:48:18 No.41292170 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292133
that would be hillarious

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:48:27 No.41292178 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292140
Kinda stupid that its not in a sandbox tier like AG

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:51:21 No.41292272 Report

Quoted By: >>41292837 >>41295901

>>41291910
Togekiss

I'm currently at 1412 with this team:

Togekiss
Specs Hydreigon
G.Darm
G.Corsola
SD Aegislash (surprisingly my least used 'mon)
Ditto

The only issue is that there's no hazard removal, but I'm seeing less hazard spam.

Togekiss has
Nasty Plot
Air Slash
Flamethrower
Aura Sphere/Dazzling Gleam/Draining Kiss/Psychic

I've ran all of those moves in the last slot but can't tell you which is the best. I don't see nearly as many T-Tars as I thought so one of the fairy moves is probably better. Draining Kiss can be extremely demoralizing when you manage to heal Togekiss to at or near full HP after some boosts, but Dazzling Gleam does significantly more damage. Psychic is good for Pex, but Air Slash flinches tend to do a good enough job as it is. I run leftovers but I'd imagine life orb would be really good if you want more damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:52:14 No.41292301 Report

Quoted By: >>41292452

>>41292133
On that note, does Wonder Guard protect against dynamax? Not that it matters when everyone and their mother is running Max Airstream.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO straight from Rock Bottom.png, 346KiB, 1440x1285

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:52:43 No.41292315 Report

Quoted By: >>41292499 >>41292646

How do I change this if I wanna use him as a Main Dynamax pokemon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:54:17 No.41292373 Report

Quoted By: >>41292580 >>41292737

>>41291661
>Sleep mechanics were significantly stronger in gen 5
And what about Gen 4?
In fact, Sleep has almost always made the difference between which grass types are viable, ever since Gen 1 til today.
If a grass type wasn’t a good sleep inducer, it was pretty shit.
If Exeguttor didn’t have Sleep Powder in Gen 1/2 it would be pretty bad.
And plus, the point was “Sleep has always been strong, even on Pokemon who are slow and would easily be revenge killed”.
>Breloom was top tier
Why do you think he was? Without Spore, Breloom is just a poorman’s Scizor or a gimmicky stallbreaker.
>the fact that you even attempt using that as a comparison discredits you.
Why?
You just flat out ignored Gen 4, and pretty much every other Gen.
The top tiers that use Spore or Sleep Powder would be significantly worse without those options, no matter the sleep mechanics of the gen.

Also the fact again is that Vivillion was pretty viable in AG, while Gengar, an already viable Pokemon in USUM OU, can just put everything to sleep with Hypnosis without a sleep clause. Now imagine that with less powerful pokemon than both AG and USUM OU.
>These usages were also a complete farce, because it was always ok for some reason when trappers I liked (Magnezone) did it
Because Megnezone and Magnet Pull only trapped steel types, and didn’t threaten all steel types either.

STag Gothitelle could eliminate nearly all defensive Arceus forms (excluding Ghost), not just only Steel, which many people wanted banned from Ubers since it made Xerneas and other powerful set up sweepers. It didn’t help that Gothitelle would just PP stall the defensive checks to set up sweeps until they used Struggle.
ATrap Dugtrio could easily kill off the likes of Chansey and Tyranitar, which allowed Mega Zard Y to blast off sun boosted nukes freely.
And hell, many players wanted Magnet Pull banned too, since the notion that any Pokemon can guarantee a free kill off Key Pokemon is way to strong.

Also see >>41291418

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:55:19 No.41292414 Report

Quoted By: >>41292828

>>41291717
You mean like what you are trying to do?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:55:26 No.41292424 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292115
well, since you are talking about a potential dynamax ban I'm assuming you are talking about the metagame a few months down the line. Quiver dancers, Barraskewda, Diggersby, KlingKlang, Dragon Dancers, Excadrill, Cloyster, Slurpuff, Scrafty, Polteageist, Haxorus, Kommoo all seem strong dynamax candidates

Braviary and assorted flying mons for stab max airstream, but the ones I mentioned previously seem to take better advantage of the dynamax

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:55:42 No.41292432 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
its called people haven't complained enough and once they do you hate it. You prefer people to accept anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:56:21 No.41292452 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292301
It does

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:57:21 No.41292489 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292043
100%

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:57:37 No.41292499 Report

Quoted By: >>41292787

>>41292315
>Knock Off Removed from Scrafty in Gen 8

But why

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:57:55 No.41292509 Report

Quoted By:

So, only way to get Hidden Abilities right now is having a shitload of luck with raid spawns, right? I want my Adaptability Crawdaunt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:58:58 No.41292543 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
BASED kingpin

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 02:59:32 No.41292564 Report

Quoted By: >>41292638 >>41292752 >>41293087 >>41293497

>Do really well with Umbreon in Gen 8 Ladder
>oh by the way Toxic is banned how heehee

Fuck you

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:00:04 No.41292580 Report

Quoted By: >>41292907

>>41292373
>Because Megnezone and Magnet Pull only trapped steel types, and didn’t threaten all steel types either.
So then it's a matter of power and specific pokemon being too powerful in a given metagame, not some vague notion of "competitiveness" and "trapping is broken"? Great, thanks for clarifying.

The rest of your post isn't worth my time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:01:14 No.41292628 Report

Quoted By:

scrub here
Have shit like evs and ivs ever actually been comprehensively explained in game

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:01:28 No.41292638 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292564
Also Heal Bell

They fucking Gutted my boy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:01:37 No.41292646 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292315
sub + moxie to snowball even harder and "counter" ditto
ice punch may prove better than iron tail, but at the end you are just picking what can counter/wall you before a potential sweep
high jump kick instead of drain punch
lastly, leftovers is too weak for a dynamax pokemon, take advantage of the hp boost and use life orb or expert belt

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:02:17 No.41292665 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291925
>Faster Tapu Bulu
Yeah, I'm thinking he's OU

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1573379545926.gif, 1MiB, 640x464

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:03:10 No.41292693 Report

Quoted By: >>41292786 >>41293344

>>41291563
>losing 40% of the time will probably keep you stuck in elo hell.
not accurate, you really only need something like a ~58% winrate in most elo systems to remain net positive over time. league of legends has always had a very basic and sterilized elo system using that sort of low-baseline formula, so you'd see a lot of legitimately ungood players in ranked brackets they had no business in, etc

that said- fuck 'high elo' pokemon this gen, literally an entire bracket of stall players going fucking hog wild with toxapex after all his pseudo-ubers-in-OU counters have been stripped from the game lmao

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:04:37 No.41292737 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292373
>And hell, many players wanted Magnet Pull banned too, since the notion that any Pokemon can guarantee a free kill off Key Pokemon is way to strong.
But of course, it's ok when Weavile and Tyranitar do it. If you leave your wall in at 15% or attempt to use something like Latios and mispredict, it's your own fault. But if Trapinch came in instead, it's uncompetitive™ because I am not unable to switch, removing a key mechanic of the game and Trapping Is Fundamentally Broken And Must Be Blanket Banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:04:55 No.41292752 Report

Quoted By: >>41293087

>>41292564
>Toxic is banned
LMAO

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:05:48 No.41292786 Report

Quoted By: >>41292848

>>41292693
>his

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:05:48 No.41292787 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292499
A real move tutor aint here. He and Bisharp are going to suffer until gen 8.5

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:05:57 No.41292796 Report

Quoted By: >>41292868 >>41292943 >>41293293

Could Espeon be OU now that all the other fast psychic types got snapped?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:07:09 No.41292828 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292414
>no u

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:07:19 No.41292837 Report

Quoted By: >>41293146

>>41292272
Air Slash
Flamethrower
Aura Sphere

Is perfect neutral coverage. So that's a good start.

...I miss roost...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:07:43 No.41292848 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292786
toxapex is the embodiment of a giant masculine dick threatening your anus by existing

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:08:18 No.41292868 Report

Quoted By: >>41292971

>>41292796
>espeon
>when gardevoir, gothitelle, and, i dunno, maybe hatterene and that imp that totally isn't impidimp i swear, exist

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1555460273926.jpg, 144KiB, 1024x768

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:10:18 No.41292907 Report

Quoted By: >>41293025 >>41293224

>>41292580
>"I'm going to cherry pick the parts I think support me while leaving out all the context and the rest of the information so I look smarter than the other guy"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:11:09 No.41292939 Report

Quoted By: >>41292972

Redpill me on Dynamax Aegislash

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO espeon.png, 30KiB, 646x161

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:11:19 No.41292943 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292796
Been trying this with some sucess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:12:00 No.41292971 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292868
Espeon has a 130/110 SpAtk/Spd spread that no other psychic in gen 8 can match.
If hyper offense becomes meta, Espeon could be the psychic of choice, especially with Magic Bounce to help give it utility

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:12:04 No.41292972 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292939
My crew is big and it keeps getting bigger

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:12:07 No.41292976 Report

Quoted By: >>41293018

Best nature for Eternatus and Zamazenta? I just got the free Modest and Adamant Mints and I’m thinking about using them on the legends.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:13:45 No.41293007 Report

Quoted By: >>41293020

no sleep clause is only gen 8 right

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:14:05 No.41293018 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292976
Timid for Eternatus, probably Impish or Careful for Zamazenta.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:14:09 No.41293020 Report

Quoted By: >>41293162

>>41293007
It just got added back in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:14:26 No.41293025 Report

Quoted By: >>41293176

>>41292907
Who are you quoting?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:15:48 No.41293068 Report

Quoted By:

I'm a massive noob and shitter at anything competitive beyond a rough idea how to properly build singular Pokemon.
Always loved Trick Room and other environment-based teams. Is there any proper point or usage for them if you're playing singles?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:16:19 No.41293087 Report

Quoted By: >>41293682

>>41292564
>>41292752
not banned you retard just not a tm anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:16:35 No.41293095 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292056
Even regular DD Kyurem is a menace, Icicle Spear is 130 BP Ice STAB, and Max Knuckle off Focus Blast just adds another +1 ATK to it as a sweeper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:18:06 No.41293134 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291604
Just tried it out on smogon, runerigus with imprison + earthquake is a pretty fun gimmick you could use, but he's just so damn frail in general so its not all that great it seems

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:18:29 No.41293146 Report

Quoted By: >>41293459

>>41292837
At least Morning Sun is a thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:18:33 No.41293147 Report

Quoted By:

Is Adamant a good nature for a Gmax HA Corviknight? Just caught one and I don't feel like grinding BP to get a mint. I feel like it would be more adequate in doubles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:19:08 No.41293162 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293020
did it really

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:19:35 No.41293176 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293025
That's basically what the guy was saying, so I paraphrased it like he's been doing. Surely one wouldn't be so hypocritical to suggest that others can't do something that he does himself when it comes to quotations?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:20:59 No.41293224 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292907
The core thesis was self-contradicting and admitted it was a matter of power rather than "competitiveness", why bother responding point by point?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:22:01 No.41293254 Report

Quoted By:

How do i make a team thats gooooood
Fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:22:06 No.41293259 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
>ABR gets BTFO Edition
ABR was right and OP is a faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:23:30 No.41293293 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292796
Ive been doing dual screens weakness policy as a match up mon for bulky offense and stall. Its not got much utility vs HO or weather so just a dying screen or preventing hazards is all it can really do. Bulky offense tends to run lucha and dragpult and drill as speed checks so its very useful to get off early screens and prevent revenge kills on your other pokemon or just kill the speed checks and let a slower pokemon hit you after a screen for a boost. Magic bounce is def less useful this gen because of how fast games go and how much more firepower stall has to compensate for toxic and knock off being limited. Thats just my experience with espeon so far.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:25:04 No.41293344 Report

Quoted By:

>>41292693
So with that said, his average on maximum is 60%, and this is not factoring the GOOD players who can counter this luck-based strat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:25:46 No.41293366 Report

Quoted By: >>41293403 >>41293480 >>41293646 >>41293659

>Remove toxic and roost tm’s with the clear intention of limiting their distribution.
>It will be completely negated when home comes out.

If gamefreak were chads they would force you to delete non native moves like the completely deleted moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:26:18 No.41293376 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291910
Haxorus is pretty brutal. Dunno if it's top tier.
-DD
-Outrage/Dragon claw
-EQ
-Poison Jab/Rock slide/First impression/Close Combat/Crunch/Night Slash/Shadow Claw

I slashed basically every move it has for coverage as they all get really beefy once they're max moves. Poison Jab is probably the "generic" choice.
Hard to kill with the beef it get's from D-maxing too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:27:13 No.41293403 Report

Quoted By: >>41293480

>>41293366
We don't know for sure yet how it'll work

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Togekiss.png, 17KiB, 644x134

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:28:59 No.41293459 Report

Quoted By: >>41293985

>>41293146
It gets that?
Rad. I was running through teams with this yesterday before the Roost removal hit, so I'll try Morning sun instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:29:39 No.41293480 Report

Quoted By: >>41293641

>>41293366
still cucks it for existing mons. shit like dragapult would learn roost otherwise and it would be semi decent as an ou giratina

>>41293403
we do though. any removed moves like pursuit/return can't be transfered till you remove the move from the mon. anything that can't learn it in these games but can outside like bisharp knock off can transfer. if you forget it i'm not sure if the move relearner would reteach those types of moves though

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:30:05 No.41293497 Report

Quoted By: >>41293624

>>41292564
"No fun allowed"

Fucking pussies

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:35:04 No.41293624 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293497
it isn't banned retard
the tm is just gone

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:35:16 No.41293641 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293480
>anything that can't learn it in these games but can outside like bisharp knock off can transfer
isn't this unconfirmed?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:35:23 No.41293646 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293366
I kinda want this because of cases like toxic but I kinda don't, I'd have to leave so many of my niggas behind in ultra sun that have tutor moves dating back to emerald/colosseum if that happened

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO screenshot 2019-11-17_10-33.png, 232KiB, 406x606

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:35:46 No.41293658 Report

Quoted By: >>41293734 >>41293753

>>41288395

ABR got rank #1 in gen 8 ou beta as of now, and he used a Grimmsnarl team no less. Posted on forum here, pretty neat.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ou-metagame-discussion.3656245/page-5#post-8286354

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:35:49 No.41293659 Report

Quoted By: >>41293707

>>41293366
I hope not, toxic getting its distribution limited is great. It should be poison types only really. Stealth rock too

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:36:43 No.41293682 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293087
Thank fuck it isn't a tm anymore. Why the fuck did so many shitters get it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:37:25 No.41293706 Report

Quoted By: >>41293745 >>41293753 >>41293772 >>41293859

Shadow tag is going to be quickbanned but arena trap will stay for now.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ou-metagame-discussion.3656245/page-5#post-8286371

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:37:30 No.41293707 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293659
fuck stealthrock
should also be limted to rock

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:38:22 No.41293734 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293658
Im glad Smogon forum teams dont get the popularity of Youtuber copy paste teams, dont wanna make a counter to those and they typically require some brain matter which low level players dont have

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:38:45 No.41293745 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293706
and welcome to hell, where the things a cuck can't prepare for are removed because the cuck was allowed to access their bull's account

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 576-0.png, 29KiB, 300x300

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:38:59 No.41293753 Report

Quoted By: >>41293812

>>41293658
>>41293706
bye bye goth, not surprising tho

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:39:54 No.41293772 Report

Quoted By: >>41293835 >>41293897 >>41294376

>>41293706
>Shadow tag banned
>Dynamax with weather speed boost abilities aren't
Waiting to see them ban swiftswim/sand rush

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:41:08 No.41293812 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293753
>I get to setup on you for free lol also I have passable bulk with Dynamax

Yeah no wonder that shit is getting quickbanned, it never had a chance of being OK

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:42:00 No.41293835 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293772
dynamax is a new mechanic, shadow tag has been tested and commonly banned since forever

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:42:43 No.41293859 Report

Quoted By: >>41293900 >>41293976 >>41294283

>>41293706
why not ban goth? wobb is still a shitmon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:43:35 No.41293885 Report

Quoted By: >>41293929 >>41293957 >>41294049

make the apple not suck

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:44:05 No.41293897 Report

Quoted By: >>41293919 >>41293960

>>41293772
Banning Swiftswim wouldnt weaken Barraskewda if thats what youre implying, fucker would still be a bullet

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:44:17 No.41293900 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293859
why not carry taunt?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:45:02 No.41293919 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293897
it could still be beaten by scarfs instead of having 900 speed

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:45:14 No.41293929 Report

Quoted By: >>41294049

>>41293885
It is now Steel/Grass

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:45:52 No.41293957 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293885
give it pure power instead of hustle

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:45:57 No.41293960 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293897
It'd be a 9mm compared to the 50 cal it is now

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:46:23 No.41293976 Report

Quoted By: >>41293999

>>41293859
Showdown never does that shit. People have been wanting blaziken with blaze for the longest time but it's still forever banned because the HA.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:46:38 No.41293985 Report

Quoted By: >>41294007

>>41293459
Morning Sun is now an egg move for him.

Togekiss Dynamax is pretty damn good.
To be honest, the Tailwind and Heal Bell nerfs hit harder than Roost. Trading Roost for Morning Sun is fine, but losing those support options hurt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:47:34 No.41293999 Report

Quoted By: >>41294770

>>41293976
that's a bad analogy, because blaziken was banned instead of speed boost

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:47:59 No.41294007 Report

Quoted By: >>41294563 >>41295385

>>41293985
t. togekissfag
nobody else is using your shitmon retard
stop pretending its good

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:49:17 No.41294039 Report

Quoted By:

why is some tard defending gothitelle on the forum? its as if he wants to get banned for wrongthink

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:49:48 No.41294049 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293929
>>41293885

>Defensive Pokemon with a typing that counters the most popular offensive typings and Significantly lowering the few weaknesses that it does have,Along with a pretty good movepool for Stalling

Thank you for being Dragon and not steel, Appletun, you faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:57:53 No.41294281 Report

Quoted By: >>41294367

>>41291240
>They don't. If you come to a tournament with 64+ people and your only way to go through is a 60% chance, well, you're not gonna get far, kid.
This is retarded.
A. Having a 40% chance to just lose a tournament is fucking retarded and unfair for the losers that didn’t have luck-based strategies.
A2. Hero was banned from a few Smash tournaments, most stages that aren’t even luck based (like any stage with a slope and hazards off) are banned, and all items are turned off.
B. Against slower teams, Gengar has multiple shots of putting your Pokemon to sleep.
C. If you are faster and Gengar missed Hypnosis on the switch, without pursuit, Gengar is free to switch into one of his non-luck based teammates that will force out your counter and Gengar can just try against when he comes out. With that, it means Gengar actually has a 84% (1-(.4*.4)) chance of putting you to sleep on switches with slower Pokemon and without pursuit, there is little to no risk of Gengar throwing out a hypnosis when ever it wants
D. OHKO moves, Swagger, Moody, and Evasion are still all banned by Smogon, so should fully putting your opponent’s team to sleep
E. Gengar isn’t the only Pokemon on a team. You have 6 Pokemon per team. All you really need is 2-3 Pokemon asleep for your team to run rampant against the opponent, which is easier than you think.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 03:57:56 No.41294283 Report

Quoted By:

>>41293859
t. never used wobbuffet

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:00:46 No.41294367 Report

Quoted By: >>41294694

>>41294281
>multiple shots at putting your team to sleep
how?
hes frail
its one shot
if it misses he dies
you just sound like some salty faggot who got shit on by sleep spam
grow up and get over it bitch

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:01:08 No.41294376 Report

Quoted By: >>41294487

>>41293772
Dynamaxing in general should be banned, but Stag is way worse since the few possible defensive checks to Dynamax Pokemon are killed by Goth slowly and painfully with no retaliation, which makes Dynamaxing even more broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:04:37 No.41294487 Report

Quoted By:

>>41294376
They're for sure going to split the formats into dynamaxing and ones without. That in addition with the legacy formats they're kinda thinning out the playerbase for them

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:06:50 No.41294563 Report

Quoted By:

>>41294007
I've been using it too.
Came 4th in a 128 player tournament on Showdown with it as my main sweeper/cleaner. Granted it was day 1; but if you underestimate it, you're getting swept.

Also sweeping aside, it's probably the single best redirect mon (follow me) for doubles too now after amoongus was cut.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:07:45 No.41294591 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
holy fucking based

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:11:30 No.41294694 Report

Quoted By:

>>41294367
>how?
>Switch into defensive Pokemon with a type disadvantage
>Defensive Pokemon can’t do anything besides possibly paralyze it
>Also can be OHKOd or 2HKOd by Gengar easily
>Also Gengar could just taunt and sub on them, you can’t know for sure
>Switch out to teammate
>Teammate is likely slow and on comes in to tank its hits
>While switching in, Gengar uses Hypnosis
>It misses
>Gengar, who probably still outspeeds, uses Hypnosis again
>If the opponent is faster, Gengar just switches and waits until it can switch back in, since pursuit is gone
Also, have you ever heard of Defensive Gengar and Defensive Infernape?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:11:38 No.41294702 Report

Quoted By:

>Leafeon got a good Physical STAB

Yay!

>It only works on Sun Teams
>grass not an amazing Physically defensive Type

>Movepool is limited so much
Ehhh

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:13:43 No.41294770 Report

Quoted By: >>41294882

>>41293999
Anon, that was Anon’s point.
People (mostly new players) want to use Blaziken without speed boost in lower tiers

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:16:28 No.41294832 Report

Quoted By: >>41296139

Cramorant set anyone? Physical or Special? I really want to use him, but can't figure out a gimick other than toxic spikes and spamming dive to stall and ability to chip more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:18:52 No.41294882 Report

Quoted By:

>>41294770
You're missing what he's saying. He wants the same shit to happen to Goth so he can use Wobb in low tiers like with Ninjask and speed boost.
The guy said Smogon never does that shit while giving an example of exactly what that anon wants

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:23:36 No.41295022 Report

Quoted By: >>41295127

Man, showdown really does a good job of making you feel like an idiot who wasted his time

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:26:47 No.41295127 Report

Quoted By: >>41295173

>>41295022
what happened anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:28:27 No.41295173 Report

Quoted By: >>41295318 >>41295385

>>41295127
Sun teams suck and Charizard having Max Fly doesnt fix that

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:34:14 No.41295318 Report

Quoted By: >>41295346

>>41295173
just wait until gigantamax is working properly, then charizard will be OU!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:34:14 No.41295319 Report

Quoted By:

I'm running G.Corsola and want to add Rotom W on my team, should I run Will-O-Wisp or Pain Split in the last spot?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:35:10 No.41295346 Report

Quoted By: >>41295412

>>41295318
Wait, it isn't working properly?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:36:35 No.41295381 Report

Quoted By: >>41295421

Is Falinks usable?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:36:39 No.41295385 Report

Quoted By: >>41295881

>>41295173
>Zard on Sun
>Not Zard Rain, Sand or Hail

Nigga wut?

>>41294007
I've seen a couple. Typically 1 every ~7 games.
I see Togekiss more than mons like Tyranitar or Clefable.
I'm at ~1450 if that matters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:37:05 No.41295398 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
what the actual fuck
and I thought smashfags were autistic

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:37:31 No.41295412 Report

Quoted By:

>>41295346
Only dynamax is working on showdown right now. Although I'm just shitposting about Charizard, his gmax sounds worse than Max Flare:
>G-Max Wildfire A Fire-type attack that Gigantamax Charizard use. This move continues to deal damage to opponents for four turns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:37:41 No.41295421 Report

Quoted By:

>>41295381
He's fine, but will probably fall to UU or RU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:44:09 No.41295597 Report

Quoted By: >>41295908

So anyone found a use for Coalossal yet? Doesn't seen terrible as a Stealth Rock tank and Burn Up seems like an interesting gimmick to make it a bit more flexible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:47:39 No.41295672 Report

Quoted By: >>41295770

Rate my sticky web goon squad
Araquanid
Crawdaunt
Darm-Galar
Hydreigon
Diggersby
Excadril

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:48:07 No.41295684 Report

Quoted By: >>41295791 >>41295815 >>41295901 >>41295931

Is there a good Pokemon to use against Rain?

I thought about using Rotom W but no Pain Split or Defog hurts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:52:17 No.41295770 Report

Quoted By: >>41295835

>>41295672
Want to battle on Showdown?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:52:58 No.41295791 Report

Quoted By:

>>41295684
are you trying to slot it in a team or building from scratch

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:53:53 No.41295815 Report

Quoted By:

>>41295684
Alola ninetails is really good and its an offmeta pick since screens are pretty sparse this gen. Hail is a good weather because it breaks sashes and nothing can abuse it besides veil setters so you wont give your oppo any advantage

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:54:39 No.41295835 Report

Quoted By: >>41295901

>>41295770
well now you can prep for it....

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:55:43 No.41295857 Report

Quoted By:

How is Primarina in this meta?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:56:46 No.41295881 Report

Quoted By:

>>41295385
i'm about 150 games in and havent' seen a single one
stop samefagging faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:57:27 No.41295901 Report

Quoted By: >>41296079

>>41295684
Slot it into a pre-existing team.

I find I'm weak to Dragapult and Rain.
I was going to drop Aegislash for something that can handle those things better.

Ferrothorn? Does it get Rapid Spin?

>>41295835
Fine, my team is this one:

>>41292272

I will be using that team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:57:49 No.41295908 Report

Quoted By: >>41295946

>>41295597
after absorbing a water/fire attack he can get to around 380~400 speed after spamming rapid spin

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:58:50 No.41295931 Report

Quoted By:

>>41295684
stick thunder on somebody

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 04:59:16 No.41295946 Report

Quoted By:

>>41295908
That's pretty solid. Seems like quite some work to make sure he gets hit, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:00:49 No.41295976 Report

Quoted By: >>41296109 >>41296124

Dunno if this applies here but it seems like the best place to theory it. what will be the new battle tower team for farming it? Lot of the older ones got culled.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:01:35 No.41295993 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
Based fellow French player destroying all the pussy ass US players

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:04:34 No.41296079 Report

Quoted By:

>>41295901
challenge me, KozmoFoes

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1573682570556.jpg, 275KiB, 960x735

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:04:58 No.41296088 Report

Quoted By: >>41296274

>>41288395
My sheep hear my voice

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:05:36 No.41296109 Report

Quoted By:

>>41295976
just dynamax lole

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:06:29 No.41296124 Report

Quoted By: >>41296173

>>41295976
Eternatus/Zacian and 2 random fillers

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO pokemon___cramorant_by_dragonith (...).jpg, 111KiB, 620x1289

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:06:55 No.41296139 Report

Quoted By:

>>41294832
I feel like if you don't dive in and embrace the gimmick there's no real reason to use Cramorant. I say go all in on a fun set. Try a chip damage set with Whirlpool and/or Rocky Helm. It gets healing moves and defensive boosting moves to make that work. Heck you can even try making this work with Assurance which never sees any use in singles.
But if you wanna run four attacking moves like Brave Bird/Liquidation/Superpower/Throat Chop be my guest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:08:09 No.41296166 Report

Quoted By:

What's the current way to get Aqua Jet on Crawdaunt? Get it on Beartic, breed that one with Inteleon, then that with my Crawdaunt?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:08:49 No.41296173 Report

Quoted By:

>>41296124
didn't know those worked there. glad i farmed for a timid eternatus

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:13:31 No.41296265 Report

Quoted By:

I wanna build a slightly gimmick team with Sandaconda setting up a sand storm, but I suck ass at team building. Excadrill and Tyranitar are obvious additions but what else?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:13:56 No.41296274 Report

Quoted By:

>>41296088
based

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:16:37 No.41296329 Report

Quoted By: >>41296949 >>41297174

>>41288395
How does Body Press work? Does it start at 80 and then go up as your defense does? What is its max BP?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:16:46 No.41296334 Report

Quoted By: >>41296725

I want to make a shedinja team in swsh. How viable is it, and what would such a team look like?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:18:22 No.41296373 Report

Quoted By: >>41296678

>tfw you realize your bias towards a certain type
How the hell do I use 3+ Ghost-types in the same team, lads?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:19:33 No.41296397 Report

Quoted By:

when has ojama ever not been based? my god.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:30:35 No.41296631 Report

Quoted By: >>41296718

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8oubeta-1011478882

Based ABR makes stall player seethe and cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:31:49 No.41296661 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288395
mdr

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:32:48 No.41296678 Report

Quoted By:

>>41296373
Pack fighting moves, and lots of them

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:32:58 No.41296685 Report

Quoted By:

>>41288683
being able to inflict sleep on all mons is dumb so no

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:34:22 No.41296716 Report

Quoted By: >>41296742 >>41297055

Trick Room in singles.

Literally any way in hell to make that work?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:34:26 No.41296718 Report

Quoted By:

>>41296631
that blasta guy is a fag but look at all those people lining up to suck off abr

sad

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:34:55 No.41296725 Report

Quoted By:

>>41296334
sand is everywhere there's no way

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:36:00 No.41296742 Report

Quoted By: >>41296792 >>41296817

>>41296716
It was very good last gen

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:38:43 No.41296792 Report

Quoted By:

>>41296742
Really? Only saw it used a bunch in Doubles.
Got a very bare-bones team setup as an example what kind of things to roll with? Having trouble deciding who could both set it up and have an easy time abusing it as well without being nuked by checks before stuff gets rolling.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:40:30 No.41296817 Report

Quoted By: >>41296872 >>41296906

>>41296742
What, all I heard from /vp/ niggers was "it's not viable" when I brought it up

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:43:24 No.41296872 Report

Quoted By:

>>41296817
it's viable if you actually build your team around it, instead of just slapping it on some random slow shitmon to try to make them work

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:44:52 No.41296906 Report

Quoted By:

>>41296817
it's still somewhat gimmicky, but SM Trick Room is probably the best it will ever be, with Magearna, legal Mega Mawile etc

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:46:17 No.41296949 Report

Quoted By:

>>41296329
please respond

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:50:39 No.41297055 Report

Quoted By:

>>41296716
OTR Reuniclus looks good and I've heard good things about Hatterene surprisingly. G-Max Copperajah will have that exclusive hazard once they implement it on sim but the base form being too reliant on weight moves might hurt it.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO e98.jpg, 5KiB, 212x249

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:51:31 No.41297081 Report

Quoted By: >>41297966

>>41288395
>2019
>Infatuation and all other romance related moves are still gender specific.

what did they mean by this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:55:24 No.41297174 Report

Quoted By: >>41297262

>>41296329
uses defense stat instead of attack to deal damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:58:41 No.41297262 Report

Quoted By: >>41297291 >>41297310

>>41297174
Ok thanks, it having an 80 BP confused me since it’s one of those scaling moves. Wonder how it would be on Shuckle if it was in the game. Wouldn’t make it viable, but would be fun to see. Also, does boosting your defense via stuff like Iron Defense boost the power of the move?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:59:09 No.41297272 Report

Quoted By: >>41297546

>introduce Dynamax form for Kingler
>its still Kingler
Is there any possible way to make Kingler work or is he still just a terrible version of Crawdaunt

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 05:59:43 No.41297291 Report

Quoted By:

>>41297262
I meant to say that I thought it was a scaling move like Heavy Slam or Low Kick

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:00:27 No.41297310 Report

Quoted By:

>>41297262
I think it's still bugged. I used it with a +252 defense Duraludon and it only did 25% to Excadrill.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:09:40 No.41297515 Report

Quoted By:

link the new thread here please

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:11:07 No.41297546 Report

Quoted By: >>41297734

>>41297272
gigantamax forms are just straight inferior to regular dynamaxing except in a few niche cases

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:19:48 No.41297734 Report

Quoted By: >>41297902 >>41298004 >>41298232

>>41297546
Which ones are better?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:28:24 No.41297902 Report

Quoted By: >>41297937

>>41297734
Gengar because max phantasm is fucking useless on it and Lapras because setting aurora veil is at least something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:30:21 No.41297937 Report

Quoted By: >>41298038

>>41297902
The snake one trapping them in addition to the normal sandstorm is good

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:31:42 No.41297966 Report

Quoted By:

>>41297081
japan hates fags, deal with it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:34:15 No.41298004 Report

Quoted By:

>>41297734
https://pastebin.com/yZsZgNUc

There's some really good ones in there, but most of them are on shitmons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:35:54 No.41298038 Report

Quoted By: >>41298168

>>41297937
Really hard to justify using the snake when hippowdon exists though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:42:50 No.41298168 Report

Quoted By:

>>41298038
Lack of recovery hurts it compare to hippo

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:46:15 No.41298222 Report

Quoted By:

>>41291538
>Slow frail mixed attacker
Game Freak really needs to cut this shit out. Not even Shift Gear could save it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Nov 2019 06:46:46 No.41298232 Report

Quoted By:

>>41297734
In addition to the ones already mentioned: Snorlax's Gigantamax is really good for teams that rely on berries... unless I've misunderstood something.
Hatterene's Giganta allows you to keep Psychic Terrain going even when using your Fairy moves, rather than swapping terrain with each use. More of a sidegrade than an upgrade.

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Competitivefag Theorymonning Thread #17