/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #41518302

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Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 05:34:10 No.41518302 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>41518404 >>41518641 >>41519457 >>41519666 >>41521566

Ice and Rock suck. Fighting and Ground are bullshit. Poison is pigeonholed. Dual-typing and big move pools are fucking everywhere at this point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 05:39:38 No.41518404 Report

Quoted By: >>41519247 >>41519387

>>41518302
Poison types are the only thing that is stopping everyone from getting sweeped by close combat

Why i should take this post seriously

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 05:40:07 No.41518413 Report

Quoted By: >>41518429 >>41519304 >>41519880 >>41520052

Nah they're actually fine. Ground for instance does hit a lot of types for SE. But they're weak to 3 common types and only have 2 resist being rock and point. They also have levitate and and entire type that are immune to them. Ground isnt the problem, the problem is the fact that GF gave Earthquake to nearly every mon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 05:41:12 No.41518429 Report

Quoted By:

>>41518413
*poison

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ftfym.png, 14KiB, 400x300

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 05:52:40 No.41518641 Report

Quoted By: >>41519304 >>41519529 >>41519948 >>41520799

>>41518302
you forgot the actual change that should happen

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1574269422252.png, 901KiB, 1220x720

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 06:21:54 No.41519247 Report

Quoted By: >>41519426 >>41519706

>>41518404
>Why i should take this post seriously
Because, my phone-posting lad, your game is so fucked that its devs felt that adding an extra corner to its already 15-sided, shit-mess polygon of type match-ups was a better idea than just adjusting the type relations prior to Fairy's superfluous debut. On top of various powercreep elements, the whole affair has left some types in disadvantage while tossing others into oppressive niches. You make a good point about the Fight-Poison relationship, however, but ultimately this is just some 5-minute attempt to redress the plight of many "shitmons" without just outright deleting any of the gamebreaking shit or excessive bloat. It would be nicer to just see Close Combat and Earthquake just go.

Also, it'd be nice to have a thread about the actual game mechanics rather than just more waifu threads.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 06:24:39 No.41519304 Report

Quoted By:

>>41518641
This also seems fine.
>>41518413
Agreed. However, even with EQ theoretically culled back drastically, I'd argue that Rock and Ice at least deserve some sort of type match-up evaluation. They get hit for SE by so much shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 06:29:12 No.41519387 Report

Quoted By: >>41520878

>>41518404
>Poison types are the only thing that is stopping everyone from getting sweeped by close combat

Most Fighting carry a ground move for most.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 06:31:12 No.41519426 Report

Quoted By: >>41519706 >>41519948

>>41519247
>nicer to just see Close Combat and Earthquake just go.
Terrible idea. Then steel would be completely broken. Steel gets a lot of shit these days because everyone sees it as a broken type. It's a good typing, but it's not overpowered because its weak to fighting and ground (also fire) two of the most important attacking types and common coverage moves. The only type that needs a nerf is Fairy. That's it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 06:33:17 No.41519457 Report

Quoted By: >>41519570

>>41518302
it was nice to see hidden power gone and some moves deleted, hoping for more balancing in the next game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 06:36:49 No.41519529 Report

Quoted By:

>>41518641
No, make it Bug. Fire is fine offensively. Fire isn't walled by half the types in the game while only having one relevant type that's weak to it (Dark).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 06:39:07 No.41519570 Report

Quoted By:

>>41519457
And Return was lost

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 06:45:06 No.41519666 Report

Quoted By:

>>41518302
Why is that whenever someone makes a thread like this, whatever they suggest is down right stupid?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 06:47:53 No.41519706 Report

Quoted By: >>41520857

>>41519426
Steel isn't Broken. Steel dual types are maybe more an issue and it's mainly the niche they offer and the fact that many other types are ass defensively. Most fire types are too frail, and everyone has earthquake.

Fairy needing a nerf is iffy. They don't have many good offensive options that hit hard vs what Close Combat offers.

>>41519247
>It would be nicer to just see Close Combat

Make other fighting options better so fighting coverage for physical attackers isn't CC or bust.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 06:57:47 No.41519880 Report

Quoted By: >>41520052

>>41518413
>the problem is the fact that GF gave Earthquake to nearly every mon

This right here gets to the crux of the matter. Most balance issues have more to do with move proliferation than type charts. Ice has no purpose when every water mon can learn Ice Beam and every mon with a mouth can learn Ice Fang. Ground is overpowered when everything even vaguely heavyset looking gets earthquake. Rock has little purpose when every Ground Type can learn every worthwhile rock move. I know no one wants to go back to the gen 1 days where lots of mons couldn't even get STAB without TM's but theirs a point where it needs to be cut back and we've clearly passed it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 07:01:48 No.41519948 Report

Quoted By: >>41520020

>>41519426
I think a lot of this stems from type redundancies and the fact that the only solution put forth for balance was "add this new hard-counter type." Steel sort of serves the niche that rock was intended to serve, and the fact that rock and ground are two different types at all comes off as a bloat-centric design choice. In the face of an expanded move pool and more dual type options for ghosts and psychics, the reason for Dark's existence almost seems questionable if put next to the idea of maybe just a few type matchup adjustments on top of the existence of viable ghost and bug attacks floating around. And now fairy is just another dark.
Yes, I agree that steel would quickly become busted without any checks, but the ubiquity of things like Close Combat and Earthquake are pretty oppresive on variety and strategy.

>>41518641
Fire is already SE against plenty of things. Bug would be a better option from a purely balance-centric perspective.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 07:05:54 No.41520011 Report

Quoted By:

Nerf Water.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 07:06:11 No.41520020 Report

Quoted By:

>>41519948
>I think a lot of this stems from type redundancies

No one wants to hear it, but a lot could be done thematically by shuffling around types. Ground and Rock have no effective difference thematically and could just be made into a single "Earth" type. Dark and Ghost could be merged to little difference. etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 07:08:10 No.41520052 Report

Quoted By:

>>41518413
>>41519880
OP here. This might actually be the best solution to the "bad typing" issue rather than a hard shuffling of the type effectiveness chart. The franchise has plenty of good moves for each type now; it's really more a matter of keeping the really strong or utilitarian moves reigned in among the proper types and individual pokemon at this point. Such a thing would keep a lot of certain types from outright dying to every fucking opponent while simultaneously giving purpose to some perhaps otherwise sidelined options. Good insight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 08:02:13 No.41520799 Report

Quoted By:

>>41518641
Take a good look at what mons get a 4x weakness and you'll see why this is actually a good idea

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 08:03:33 No.41520818 Report

Quoted By:

I thought fighting already did normal damage to poison

Rei

Rei Mon 25 Nov 2019 08:05:39 No.41520857 Report

Quoted By:

>>41519706
Are you comparing attack move BP to decide what's a good type and what isn't?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 08:06:34 No.41520878 Report

Quoted By:

>>41519387
No, they carry a Dark move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Nov 2019 09:05:31 No.41521566 Report

Quoted By:

>>41518302
My suggestion

>Fairy
Weak to Poison and Steel
Resist Dark
Immune to Dragon

>Rock
Weak to Water, Grass, Fighting, and Steel
Resist Rock, Electric, Bug, Flying, Poison, Fire and Normal

>Ice
Weak to Fighting, Fire, Steel and Rock
Resist Ice, Water, and Fairy

>Water
Weak to Electric, Grass, Ice and Poison
Resist Water, Steel and Fire

>Steel
Weak to Fire, Fighting, Ground, and Electric
Resist Bug, Dragon, Psychic, Steel, Rock, Flying, Grass, Ice, Normal, and Fairy
Immune to Poison

>Psychic
Weak to Dark, Bug and Ghost
Resist to Fighting, Psychic and Fairy

>Fire
Weak to Rock, Ground and Water
Resist Steel, Fire, Ice, Grass and Bug

Everything else stays the same.

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