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70KiB, 180x478, 180px-Sword_Shield_Chairman_Rose.png

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:22:49 No.41660608 View View Reply Original Report

Outright evil villains a la Ghetsis or Lusamine are overrated and nonsensical. Amiable, nuanced villains a la Rose are the best path for the series. Prove me wrong, fools.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:24:13 No.41660643 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
I disgree with Lusamine being an outright evil villain, she's a woman dealing with grief

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:25:09 No.41660668 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
I agree that not outright evil villains could be better, but Rose was an absolute garbage villain

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:26:00 No.41660694 Report

Quoted By: >>41660873 >>41662088

>>41660608
His plan made no sense and he literally just gives up on it when you beat him in a Pokemon battle, even directing you to Eternatus so you could further foil it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:29:38 No.41660795 Report

Quoted By: >>41661548 >>41662552

>>41660608
At least Ghetsis didn't try with some lame excuse to motivate his evil ambitions. He just wanted to rule the world, fair enough.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:29:59 No.41660800 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
Villains that have won over the public and are pulling strings to keep control but don't have a doomsday plan is the right direction. If the fake leak about him rigging the tournament to keep Leon unbeaten because it was more entertaining and kept bringing in money were true, I would have been in to it a lot more. But at least it was slightly smaller scale than the ridiculousness of some previous games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:30:40 No.41660816 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
Explain how Rose is 'nuanced'? You can't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:32:46 No.41660864 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
literally my mom's dr strange

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:32:58 No.41660873 Report

Quoted By: >>41661746 >>41661991

>>41660694
I wonder if Eternatus cast some sort of spell on Rose and when he lost the poke battle he snaps out of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:34:13 No.41660915 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
you sound gay a la faggot

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:35:00 No.41660940 Report

Quoted By: >>41661119

>>41660608
Nothing's nonsensical about wanting to rule a near Utopian society with a diverse amount of powerful creatures for yourself. What is nonsensical, however, is being too impatient to solve a energy crisis, which is due in a 1000 years from now, and subsequently dooming the entire region due to lack of proper preparations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:37:33 No.41661005 Report

Quoted By: >>41662234 >>41663234

>>41660608
Lusamine was a woman driven to lunacy and abuse by grief. Ghetsis, meanwhile, entertaining BECAUSE he was a complete and unrepentant villain, and his plans in BW would have worked if not for the player character - a literal who from some hick town - getting the other dragon, which no one could have foreseen. Also, Rose isn't "nuanced," he's an idiot whose "plan" was
>summon eldritch dragon because Dynamax energy for our entertainment sport will run out in a literal thousand years
>"I agree with you, but we should wait a day so no one gets hu-"
>NO IMMA SUMMON IT NOW AAAAAAAA

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO surely you jest.webm, 313KiB, 564x448

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:39:52 No.41661057 Report

Quoted By: >>41664217 >>41664358

>>41660608
>rose was good

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:42:36 No.41661119 Report

Quoted By: >>41661381 >>41661702 >>41661772 >>41662790

>>41660940
>Nothing's nonsensical about wanting to rule a near Utopian society with a diverse amount of powerful creatures for yourself.
Aside from the fact that no-one is going to give up their pokemon just because some twink says so, and other regions certainly won't. Reshiram and Zekrom get stomped by a trainer with a Krookodile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:49:36 No.41661267 Report

Quoted By:

Lysandre's biggest fault was being stuck in a game that had all the corners cut off to run it out the door. His plan was sound-ish, as far as it goes (the world is hopelessly corrupt, so i'm going to burn it all down and start over, shepherding it as an immortal god-king), and you can tell that they intended to develop Team Flare more than they did. Malva being in cahoots with them could have been really interesting, too, had they ever done anything with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:52:32 No.41661343 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
The player has to defeat the villain in order for there to be a traditional Hero's Journey. So if the villain is well-intentioned you have to solve the story in one of the following ways:
The player ruins the villain's plan and now the world is worse off due to the hero.
The villain was wrong about there being a problem (Maxie/Archie), the villain comes off as retarded.
Whether the villain was right or wrong is unclear, but nothing comes from their defeat so they still come off as retarded (Lysandre, Rose).
The villain was being manipulated by someone else, this leaves the villains' goals unresolved and the villain still comes off as dumb (N).

Add the fact that the Pokemon world is always portrayed as an idyllic place, and most Well-Intentioned villains in Pokemon tend to approach Category 2 because there aren't any conflicts outside those created by these assholes who are supposedly trying to fix the world.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:53:44 No.41661371 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
>nuanced

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 800px-Ghetsis_anime.png, 303KiB, 800x450

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:54:23 No.41661381 Report

Quoted By:

>>41661119
>Aside from the fact that no-one is going to give up their pokemon just because some twink says so,
Not just some twink, but him and his entire organization along with the Seven Sages (who Ghetsis mentioned to be some of the wisest men from across the globe)
>and other regions certainly won't.
Unova at the time was practically isolated from previous regions and their influence. That's why only native pokemon was shown during your journey. Either way, it doesn't matter since none of the 4 regions couldn't even bother to collectively stand against their own team villains, let alone try to interfere with Unova's.
>Reshiram and Zekrom get stomped by a trainer with a Krookodile.
Game mechanics ≠ Lore

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Nov 2019 23:57:46 No.41661465 Report

Quoted By: >>41662790 >>41663814

>mentioning best/worst villians
>no mention of Cyrus

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:00:20 No.41661548 Report

Quoted By: >>41663659

>>41660795
I think b2w2 Ghetsis was the best villain
literally just a crazy terrorist who was coping after his decades long plan got foiled when a 15 year old curb stomps him into the dirt and steals his legendary pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:06:40 No.41661702 Report

Quoted By:

>>41661119
>Aside from the fact that no-one is going to give up their pokemon just because some twink says so, and other regions certainly won't.
Except they were because the seed of doubt was planted. Regular people couldn't communicate with their pokemon, they didn't know what they wanted so how could they be sure it was for the best?
On top of that were it not for your player finding the other Dragon and defeating Plasma they would have been seen as right by virtue of N befriending the legendary dragon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:07:30 No.41661723 Report

Quoted By:

This contrarian appreciation of Rose has to be the dumbest shit about SS fans. You can like a game without dicksucking every element.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:08:42 No.41661746 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660873
>Eternatus is using Rose like a meat puppet to free itself and communicates through him, like that episode of the anime with Tentacruel and Meowth
Would have been more interesting than what we got.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:09:43 No.41661772 Report

Quoted By: >>41661940

>>41661119
This retard didn't even play the game. Hey dipshit, they literally spell out for you that Plasma was going to forcibly release every pokemon from the PC, they had hacked into the system and were waiting for N's command.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:16:57 No.41661940 Report

Quoted By: >>41661945 >>41662043

>>41661772
>hacked into the PC
>trainers still have teams of 6
Wow, good job, you released a bunch of Patrats and Pidoves that weren't going to be anything anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:17:26 No.41661945 Report

Quoted By: >>41661974 >>41662079

>>41661940
What point are you trying to make?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:19:25 No.41661974 Report

Quoted By: >>41661987

>>41661945
team plasma are garbage

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:19:54 No.41661987 Report

Quoted By:

>>41661974
Eh, you're not being very convincing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:19:58 No.41661991 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660873
That's a good idea. Shame GF didn't think of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:21:44 No.41662020 Report

Quoted By: >>41662049

>>41660608
Dumbass cartoon villains that want to change the world with misguided ideals are superior and for Pokemon better. Alternatively team rocket will always be great

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:22:52 No.41662043 Report

Quoted By: >>41662065

>>41661940
Anon, the pc system is connected to the pokeballs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:22:56 No.41662049 Report

Quoted By:

>>41662020
Rocket and Skull are the only good villain teams in pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:23:58 No.41662065 Report

Quoted By: >>41662123

>>41662043
then why can't you release pokemon when they're in your party

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:24:31 No.41662079 Report

Quoted By:

>>41661945
He has no point. If Plasma releases all trainers' pc pokemon right away, then they can proceed to liberate all trainers' pokemon personally without worrying about trainers falling back on their PC pokemon afterwards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:25:01 No.41662088 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660694
That’s what they all don

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:26:44 No.41662123 Report

Quoted By: >>41662213

>>41662065
Game mechanics you idiot. If you could then some moron would trap himself on an island.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:27:07 No.41662136 Report

Quoted By: >>41662706

>>41660608
>Easiest game to be overleveled in.
>His elephant is will land 1 hit at most before dying.
Sigh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:27:50 No.41662145 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
>Lusamine
>Outright evil
Did you even play the game?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:31:31 No.41662213 Report

Quoted By:

>>41662123
But they have measures in place to prevent that already, such as making it in Gen 2 or 3 so that you CAN'T release your last surf user for example. If the PC system was linked to your team, you'd be able to release them whenever and if you're in a scenario that would result in a softlock, the pokemon would come back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:32:24 No.41662234 Report

Quoted By:

>>41661005
Not to mention interrupting said spectator sport because he couldn't wait a single day for it to finish, all in the name of saving it a thousand years from now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:46:01 No.41662552 Report

Quoted By: >>41663659

>>41660795
Ghetsis was cartoony in how fake he was. At one point he literally does an, "Exactly how I- I mean Team Plasma wants it to be," thing, and it's like, "Come on dude."

It was nice though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:49:31 No.41662641 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
OP a la a ginormous faggot is a ginormous faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:51:52 No.41662706 Report

Quoted By:

>>41662136
its actually kinda hard to be overeleved, the game is paced so fast if you dont stop every once in a while your Pokemon become severely under leveled.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 00:55:24 No.41662790 Report

Quoted By: >>41662917 >>41663814

>>41660608
>nuanced like rose

Literally just a retard, plain and simple.

>>41661119
Ghetsis and Team Plasma is basically shorthand for the liberal agenda in the USA and it's what makes him such a compelling and frighteningly believable/realistic villain. He's a "progressive" but clever enough to be slightly more subtle about his endgame, as absolutely fucked as that sounds.

>>41661465
>i'm autistic so I'm going to destroy the universe

Arguably highest stakes but also the most laughable cartoon villain tier of them all, that faggot fop Lysandre included.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:00:33 No.41662917 Report

Quoted By:

>>41662790
posting about how liberals are all deranged would-be city nukers while also saying that someone fucking everyone else over for their own selfish goals is truly ironic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:17:14 No.41663234 Report

Quoted By:

>>41661005
I like how every villain wants to change the world or make a new world while Lusamine just wants to get high off of space jellyfish.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:18:36 No.41663265 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
>nuanced
yeah, yeah sure...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:26:50 No.41663440 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
Maybe I'm tired of "complexity" in my villains. Maybe I want my villains to just be unrepentantly evil. For good reasons, even, but at the end of the day they're evil, I'm good, and that's all we need.

Not every story's villain needs ultra-complex motivations or a sad backstory where you lament them having turned to the dark side and want to bring them back to the light. Every villain can't be Vader. Sometimes you just need a Palpatine to cackle madly and kill people because he's having a blast being evil and wants little else in life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:29:30 No.41663497 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
Who the hell is Rose?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:38:10 No.41663659 Report

Quoted By: >>41663687 >>41663862

>>41661548
Agreed. You can totally tell they were setting up for BW3 to have an even crazier Ghetsis and the premiere of the complete dragon. Hopefully one day and hopefully under management that actually cares. I adore the idea of a villain going crazy over continually being foiled by god damn children.

>>41662552
If they remake BW1, I really hope they rewrite a lot of his lines in order to keep the reveal a lot more secretive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:39:36 No.41663687 Report

Quoted By: >>41663742

>>41663659
I think even in an ideal world, BW3 was never on the table. They never even bothered designing the complete dragon.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Reminder.png, 39KiB, 256x192

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:41:50 No.41663742 Report

Quoted By: >>41663807

>>41663687
Not true

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:44:58 No.41663807 Report

Quoted By: >>41663940

>>41663742

literally charizard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:45:08 No.41663814 Report

Quoted By: >>41664320

>>41662790
ghetsis was a great villain especially with the development of him in bw2, but its such low stakes it's hard to care about stopping him.
> oh noo not the liberal agenda, Im shitting myself

>>41661465
This guy was right. Cyrus was easily the peak, stony and calculating, highest stakes, philosophical motivations - he had genuinely thought through his reasonings and not doing things just because he was some loon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:47:16 No.41663862 Report

Quoted By: >>41663940

>>41663659
and how would ghetsis manage to steal back the dragons from bw1/2 protag and who would have kyurem?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:51:00 No.41663940 Report

Quoted By: >>41664029

>>41663807
Charizard doesn't have a spiky/spiny tail, the wing shape doesn't match up, and the head looks completely different.
Why would they even put charizard there? Iris is the Dragon Master, only fitting to have a statue of the perfect dragon, and we all know charizard isn't a dragon.

>>41663862
Well, he probably would have gone pretty crazy. Maybe even crazy enough to track the protags down and steal them back. I have a thing written out that goes into a lot more detail on how I think that could play out, but 4chan isn't the place for that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:55:33 No.41664029 Report

Quoted By: >>41664180

>>41663940
>Why would they even put charizard there?
Because it's just a symbol and Charizard, despite not being a Dragon Type, is the symbol of dragons. GameFreak made that grave and has lied in it ever since.

That said, the second paragraph shows off this is more about fanfic than it is about anything the game designers were doing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 01:57:02 No.41664060 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
>I'm gonna destroy Galar for the sake of Galar!
>Amiable and Nuanced

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 02:02:43 No.41664180 Report

Quoted By:

>>41664029
>the second paragraph shows off this is more about fanfic than it is about anything the game designers were doing
exactly, which is why I would never post that crap here over my dead body. Still though, how would Ghetsis get the dragons back otherwise?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 02:04:38 No.41664217 Report

Quoted By:

>>41661057
>He bought? Brick it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 02:09:20 No.41664320 Report

Quoted By: >>41665594

>>41663814
>Cyrus was easily the peak, stony and calculating, highest stakes, philosophical motivations - he had genuinely thought through his reasonings and not doing things just because he was some loon.
Cyrus wanted to destroy the universe because he couldn't feel things. That was it. He was a selfish, autistic fool - hardly "calculating" as you put it. Also, those "highest stakes" you praise? That's GameFreak making things so over the top that I found it impossible to take seriously or care.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 02:09:39 No.41664327 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
The problem is he is so even keeled and reasonable for a majority of the game, his selfish plot comes off as out of character. He even specifically tells Bede that putting selfish desires over Galar's safety is shameful.
It doesn't help that they skip the moment where he actually pulls the trigger, and goes straight to him asking you and leon to bail him out.
The context for you battle with him doesn't even make much sense. His plan already failed and he doesn't seem to want to stop you from stopping Eternatus. I guess he was just letting off steam?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 02:11:35 No.41664358 Report

Quoted By:

>>41661057
finally a webm of that shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 02:14:41 No.41664427 Report

Quoted By: >>41665775

I don't like every Pokemon gen, but honestly the only main villain I genuinely didn't like was Lysandre. The writers just felt like they were really up their own ass trying to make him this tortured, tragic villain with his backstory and that scene where he cries. But in the end he was really no less malicious than Ghetsis, who at least owned the super-villain role.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 02:29:21 No.41664729 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
You're just a massive faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 02:44:17 No.41664974 Report

Quoted By:

Rose could have been good but he was the most rushed antagonist in the series by far

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 03:06:41 No.41665338 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
I completely agree. Although they made it seem trivial by being 1000 years away, the IRL climate change/energy crisis analogue is 10-100 years from showing a lasting effect. People get tripped up about how his “future” motive. But really he’s preoccupied with the past and present extending into the future. He doesn’t want a radically different future. Just one where the history and culture remain in tact. That’s why him and Bede say the same things but Bede fundamentally doesn’t understand the distinction in the nuanced sentiment of appreciation for Galar above all. “Long live Galar” or something to that effect

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 03:21:19 No.41665594 Report

Quoted By:

>>41664320
wow someone's upset I didn't like ghetsis, go cry about the liberal agenda

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 03:34:59 No.41665775 Report

Quoted By:

>>41664427
yeah lysandre was shite only villain worse is rose

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 03:55:57 No.41666130 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
Lusamine just got super focused on the ultra beasts because of her husband going missing. Then she was being manipulated by neurotoxin from Nihilego, she really didn’t do anything wrong of her own volition, she was basically being mind controlled.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2019 04:05:15 No.41666321 Report

Quoted By:

>>41660608
What if eternatus once had a human form and forced his skull into rose's body displacing rose's still-alive skull somehow, and hosts the gym challenge under rose's identity while rose's skull creates a fake evil team to stop the tournament before the champion can serve as a new host for the eternatus skull.

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